Being a Yinzer and football coach I understand the concept of hometown team , loving your community , I went to Carmichaels Area for gods sake, I get it. But in western PA it is well past time to start consolidation. Schools are not growing they are shrinking and for everyone to survive there needs to be fewer kingdoms not more. Once you combine schools within a few years (say one graduating class) things will be just fine. Look at Central Valley for example. None of the kids remember Valley and Monaca they know Central Valley. And the parents that would have or did complain are long gone
My takeaway from the 2022 state championships
- Thread starter northalleghenytiger
- Start date
Well, this thread went off the rails.
Back to reality: The PIAA separates schools in six different classifications based on the number of boys in 9th-11th grade. The PIAA does this to align the pool of athletes inside these classifications to provide competitive balance.
This system functions well for boundary schools where the pool of 9th-11th grade boys is based on the make-up of said boundary. It breaks down for non-boundary schools where the pool of 9th-11th grade boys is undefined and therefore not on a level playing field with the boundary schools.
Back to reality: The PIAA separates schools in six different classifications based on the number of boys in 9th-11th grade. The PIAA does this to align the pool of athletes inside these classifications to provide competitive balance.
This system functions well for boundary schools where the pool of 9th-11th grade boys is based on the make-up of said boundary. It breaks down for non-boundary schools where the pool of 9th-11th grade boys is undefined and therefore not on a level playing field with the boundary schools.
Open Enrollment poof problems solved
PA has open enrollment. You just need to find a boundary school that offers an academic program your home school does not.
Open enrollment as a household change doesn't quite solve the problem you think. You're from Greene County. Say they shutdown all the schools in Greene County and decided to make one mega school in Waynesburg. Question - how long would it take for some kid who lives out in Deep Valley to get bussed everyday. By car it's 45 minutes. On a bus, you might be looking at an 1.5 trip one way with all the stops. Rural areas like Greene County have major challenges from a logistic manner where you can't just turn all of the districts into one 5a or 6a school. The landscape is too big. The costs would be astronomical.
I worked for awhile in Delaware that has open enrollment for decades. They've now passed legislation that does not allow a kid to transfer beyond 9th grade. To enter open enrollment, it's done through a lottery system, where academic merit and academic need carries weight. Athletics play a zero role.
That's not an answer BP but I'm dropping out as this is a football board with other relevant HS FB topics to throw around.
For the record, your answer to the question of "Why will a 'white school' as you characterize TJ "argue academics and prop vals are being destroyed" by a merger with Clairton?", is ........"because it's a fact".
Take this as you will. The only player on the 2017 P-R team that if missing would have prevent them from winning the state championship was Jurkovec. So yes, I believe P-R would have won anyway.
But also also agree with yeez about something - just beat SJP. Its possible. IMO poor coaching in some cases gives teams absolutely zero chance, even with great players. Ya they have great players. But they are beatable. So beat them when they are beatable.
But also also agree with yeez about something - just beat SJP. Its possible. IMO poor coaching in some cases gives teams absolutely zero chance, even with great players. Ya they have great players. But they are beatable. So beat them when they are beatable.
Prep teams wont be celebrated? I think it's a pretty large consensus that the 2020 team is most likely the best team in Pa history. I feel like that's being celebrated/lauded/respected
They’ll be celebrated like how the Kevin Durant warriors are celebrated. You can respect their dominance, but not respect how they were constructed. Meanwhile, 2021 Lebo or 2017 PR were like the 2011 Dallas Mavericks. Underdogs headed into the season, and they beat the powerhouse. People respect that more
Anyone who thought SJP was the clear favorite to win the state title going into the 2017 and 2021 seasons or going into the playoffs either year wasn't paying much attention. In 2021 they lost to Milton, a public school team from Georgia, in Philly, and they lost to LaSalle in their regular season game.. They beat Wood by three points in the league semifinals.
yes
my criticism of them is nothing more than not thinking of them as some all time great team, and that they had timing on their side playing a young and inexperienced SJP team in the final
Monaca and Center didn't win titles, let alone have the longest winning streak in Pa history like Clairton
I'm sure there are plenty of alums that don't like the merger
they aren't likable, they are hated because of their advantages
which is why i always point out both PR and ML had timing on their side
both years the talk around the wpial was this was a year we could finally beat SJP, but it was considered to be more of a coin flip than one team being a favorite
The 2017 SJP team had won 27 straight games and the previous state championship.
You're including the 2016 Prep team (led by Swift) which won 14 of those games. The 2017 team was obviously very different--as evidenced in the semi-final game against Coatesville. I don't think anyone who followed SJP closely that year thought they were or should have been the favorites going into the PR game. Maybe you could say the final was a toss-up, though PR had had no close games the entire season--nothing like the near-loss SJP had against Coatesville and the early-season close games the Prep won.
"Hated"? People 300 miles from Philly "hate" a high school football team?
Tulla: I do agree with that - Coatesville had them on the ropes. Blew that game from what I remember.
Amen tulla. Never met anyone in D3 or the Pittsburgh relatives in 7 that held that view.
From a pure football standpoint, the thing that separates SJP from the rest of the Philly schools is they have the best coached OL on a year to year basis. Wood held that title in my opinion during their run but year to year, SJP is light years ahead of the other schools that make it to the state title game from Philly. Everyone out of Philly has skill talent. The other Philly schools have big OL's typically but they aren't polished like SJP.
The 16-17 Warriors are either the best or 2nd best team of all time depending on who you ask. KD is a top 15 player of all time. Lauded and celebrated just like the 2020 Prep team. Just because you personally hate a team/school of HS kids, doesnt take away from their greatness in the slightest. Horrendous comparison
Hard selecting one and those two are special. I saw the 2011 Wood team (beat McDevitt) that was one of the best teams I've ever seen including some of the great SJP teams. Talk about line play.
What I mean about open enrollment is this. ( You have an open enrollment period every year say in Feb. Kids are allowed to go from one high school to another as long as they provide transportation. No penalty for transferring and you are eligible for sports that next school year.) That is not in place in PA right now but many counties in NC do it like that. And I do see what you are talking about in Greene County it is a geographically big county. Right now they have 5 high schools(Waynesburg, West Greene , Carmichaels, Mapletown, Jefferson Morgan. 4 schools are 1A and one is 2A. They should not have 5 schools but 2. Washington County has 15 and should have 7. The combining of the schools makes sense $$$$$ wise , academically it makes sense you can provide more classes, athletically it makes sense. The WPIAL is in need of a huge overhaul , combining schools is step one, choice transfer should be step 2
But look at Central Valley that school has had more success than Center and Monaca before the merger. And in another decade the thought of the schools that were around before the merger will be further and further away from memory
Not sure about the saving money piece.
If the schools in Greene County could save a bunch of money by merging it would've been done years ago.
The transportation costs are astronomical right now.
The "more classes" thing is kind of a myth. Look up the courses offered at a place like Monessen. You would expect them to be a bare bones school when it comes to course offerings, extracurricular activities, etc. It's not. They have plenty of AP and honors courses along with extracurriculars beyond sports.
All of the Greene County schools have brand new STEM labs.
Those OL's Wood had with Coach Carey were awesome. Just like his CB West teams.
The 2003 North Penn team he coached wasn't bad either.
I disagree and how does it not save $$$. Instead of 5 supers you have 2. Instead of 5 head football coaches you have 2. Instead of 5 high school principals you have 2 . ANd transportation costs are up and down so thats not a constant. And trust me the people of Greene county are not about change. It's 1960 there as it is in many parts of the WPIALand that's OK I guess but its time to combine districts because I feel that it does save money. and it does help athletics. I get the town pride thing and all but a new school would bring new pride and connections. Again Central Valley is a great example.
Monaca and Center Twp are 3 miles apart. There are tons of infrastructure there between the 2 areas. Merging those 2 schools is fairly easy when you compare that to rural areas like there are in Greene County. It takes 45 minutes to get from parts of West Greene school district to Waynesburg alone. If you did that on a bus with all the stops, kids would be on a bus up to an 1.5 a day 1 - way.
Ok I see what you are saying but Jefferson Morgan/Carmichaels/Mapletown should have already combined. They do not have the logistical problems that were forementioned with Waynesburg and West Greene. I do think that the kids that would travel that far are in the minority from WG to WBG. Most are in Rogersville which is 15-20 min from Waynesburg. Plus logistics can be fixed. It can be done. Plus there are fewer and fewer kids out that way so instead of 70 kids that are that far away might be 45 now. Also if those kids are that far out send them to McGuffey
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I will put the county that is located in the WPIAL and how many schools they have to haw many they should have
Greene 5 to 2
Fayette 6-5
Washington 15-6
Westmoreland 17-10
Beaver 12-6
Butler 3-2
Armstong have no clue
Allegheny should have 25,26 high schools and that includes the city league. That would get you to 60-62 schools in the WPIAL. And then have choice transfer man think of the powerhouses then in the WPIAL
Greene 5 to 2
Fayette 6-5
Washington 15-6
Westmoreland 17-10
Beaver 12-6
Butler 3-2
Armstong have no clue
Allegheny should have 25,26 high schools and that includes the city league. That would get you to 60-62 schools in the WPIAL. And then have choice transfer man think of the powerhouses then in the WPIAL
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It would seem that open enrollment would cause a massive shift in home values. All of a sudden nice homes in currently crappy SDs would be hot items and nice homes in currently good SDs would drop like a rock.
Don’t be upset that my comparison was spot on. The 16-17 Warriors are the best team ever. 2020 St. Joes is the best team ever in PIAA. Everyone knows this. HOWEVER, they are constructed in a way that is morally wrong.
I’d have no issue with this if they were in their own private league. I say the same thing about Pittsburgh Central Catholic. But for some greedy reason public and private play together.
By the way, I didn’t hate on high school kids with that post nor have I ever hated on them. It’s not their fault. It’s the PIAAs fault
Crossing county lines does happen in PA but it creates all kinds of issues.
It absolutely happened in the Woodland Hills School District.
It would be a monumental shift if it occurred statewide. Hard to even think about the losses that some would incur and the gains that others would enjoy. The home values in crappy districts that border good districts would skyrocket.
Oh look - now we have the morality police and Gordon Gecko’s alter ego all in one … LOL … you’re entertaining, I will say that