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My takeaway from the 2022 state championships

Readings won 2 titles, lower Marion and chester haven't won a title in a decade. Now do Roman, Neumann, and Imhotep.
The last ten PIAA Basketball champions in the BIG BOY Category (nothing for Imhotep or Neumann in this category)
Roman won three
Reading won two
Chester won two
Kennedy Catholic
New Castle
Lower Merion

Yup, that PCL is running crazy with three out of the last 10 championships. Cry me a river.

One thing you should take into consideration when it comes to basketball. The talent of the coach is magnified. Roman has a long, long history of great teams going back to Speedy Morris. Morris was the best basketball coach out there. If you think three out of ten is rubbing your nose in it, check out the Roman's history.
 
About McDevitt. They are in a unique setting surrounded by established football programs and traditions, some very deep that of course are well coached, often with great coaches of tenure, or....they keep it going with coaches from their "tree" when retired. Teams like Harrisburg, CD, CV, Cedar Cliff and Steel High in the immediate area....and others stretching east to Manheim Central, Wyomissing, Wilson, Exeter, Gov Mifflin, Lamp Stras have or recently have had highly regarded coaches.
** Point being, all have long standing traditions that create local identity and loyalty to that school. Anyone can be 'sniped'. It's just more difficult in this circumstance.
This is why people were so furious with Bethlehem Catholic when they really ramped up in the 1990s. Becahi sits right in the middle of a lot of schools with long football traditions and that had been really successful. You saw the effect immediately - when Bob Stem retired, within four years Liberty was in the state final. They beat Easton in three state D11 finals - with a running back from Easton. It's just a very different environment from "the whole city is open enrollment and kids kind of go wherever" or "we have all of these CYO feeder programs and lots of Catholic elementary schools that traditionally feed schools like this." It's a lot of very involved community based programs with tons of outreach from the high schools staffs, almost all kids playing affiliated Jr. High football at programs that are winners, then lots of hurt feelings.

And, as we've seen with Becahi over the last ten years or so, it can really ebb and flow based on how together they have things, because it's easy to lose a lot of that player in-flow. One mistake I think Bethlehem Catholic made is they took tons of kids on the promise of "exposure" and also seemed to clean up on talented malcontents, which has gained Becahi a reputation around the Valley in football that I don't think they're super proud of. Allentown Central Catholic has always been a much more CYO based program, and I think that's why perception of the two programs is so vastly different locally, even if ACC gets lumped in with a lot of the private school complaints statewide.

Where things obviously get wild around here is wrestling. Bethlehem Catholic and Notre Dame sit in the middle of probably the most dense population of talent in the United States (WPIAL guys are going to get on me here, but the geographic footprint of the WPIAL is so much greater than the Lehigh Valley) that it's so easy for kids to get to Becahi/ND that they can load up with national caliber teams every year. But in doing so, kids are most often leaving EXCELLENT programs. I understand kids leaving Salisbury, Catasauqua, Whitehall, Palisades, etc. to go be a part of these bigtime programs. But they're also pulling in kids from Northampton, Nazareth, Easton, Parkland, Phillipsburg, etc. that are themselves national caliber programs that go to all of the same events, have either Hall of Fame coaches of elite, young, former NCAA qualifiers running their programs. Hell, even an off the grid program like Stroudsburg around here has an NCAA qualifier as a head coach who has produced multiple state finalist and Division I kids, gotten his program into huge national tournaments when he's had national kids. So when Becahi is wrestling Northampton in the PIAA Team finals with two Northampton kids in the lineup, or Nazareth (who has probably the best high school coach in history) has a state champion transfer to Notre Dame the year after Nazareth won a team title, it doesn't feel like it's kids jumping for better opportunities, it's just building an All Star team because the rules say you can. Then add on having a roster with kids as far east as Hackettstown, New Jersey, as far north as East Stroudsburg, as far south as Doylestown, and as far west as Reading, it just kind of feels like "what are we doing here?"
 
The last ten PIAA Basketball champions in the BIG BOY Category (nothing for Imhotep or Neumann in this category)
Roman won three
Reading won two
Chester won two
Kennedy Catholic
New Castle
Lower Merion

Yup, that PCL is running crazy with three out of the last 10 championships. Cry me a river.

One thing you should take into consideration when it comes to basketball. The talent of the coach is magnified. Roman has a long, long history of great teams going back to Speedy Morris. Morris was the best basketball coach out there. If you think three out of ten is rubbing your nose in it, check out the Roman's history.
Roman is the only one in 6A. Now do tep and neumann.
 

1200 miles and perfectly legal it seems. I'm sure this was a one off and that they never operate within safer and less notable parameters - say, 40 miles or so and not an NFL players relative
Would seem to be a high profile situation since PR won the title that year, so I'm sure PIAA was involved. Anyone know the back story here? Did the kid live in Pine-Richland SD for just that football season? Seems shady from the outside.
 
This is why people were so furious with Bethlehem Catholic when they really ramped up in the 1990s. Becahi sits right in the middle of a lot of schools with long football traditions and that had been really successful. You saw the effect immediately - when Bob Stem retired, within four years Liberty was in the state final. They beat Easton in three state D11 finals - with a running back from Easton. It's just a very different environment from "the whole city is open enrollment and kids kind of go wherever" or "we have all of these CYO feeder programs and lots of Catholic elementary schools that traditionally feed schools like this." It's a lot of very involved community based programs with tons of outreach from the high schools staffs, almost all kids playing affiliated Jr. High football at programs that are winners, then lots of hurt feelings.

And, as we've seen with Becahi over the last ten years or so, it can really ebb and flow based on how together they have things, because it's easy to lose a lot of that player in-flow. One mistake I think Bethlehem Catholic made is they took tons of kids on the promise of "exposure" and also seemed to clean up on talented malcontents, which has gained Becahi a reputation around the Valley in football that I don't think they're super proud of. Allentown Central Catholic has always been a much more CYO based program, and I think that's why perception of the two programs is so vastly different locally, even if ACC gets lumped in with a lot of the private school complaints statewide.

Where things obviously get wild around here is wrestling. Bethlehem Catholic and Notre Dame sit in the middle of probably the most dense population of talent in the United States (WPIAL guys are going to get on me here, but the geographic footprint of the WPIAL is so much greater than the Lehigh Valley) that it's so easy for kids to get to Becahi/ND that they can load up with national caliber teams every year. But in doing so, kids are most often leaving EXCELLENT programs. I understand kids leaving Salisbury, Catasauqua, Whitehall, Palisades, etc. to go be a part of these bigtime programs. But they're also pulling in kids from Northampton, Nazareth, Easton, Parkland, Phillipsburg, etc. that are themselves national caliber programs that go to all of the same events, have either Hall of Fame coaches of elite, young, former NCAA qualifiers running their programs. Hell, even an off the grid program like Stroudsburg around here has an NCAA qualifier as a head coach who has produced multiple state finalist and Division I kids, gotten his program into huge national tournaments when he's had national kids. So when Becahi is wrestling Northampton in the PIAA Team finals with two Northampton kids in the lineup, or Nazareth (who has probably the best high school coach in history) has a state champion transfer to Notre Dame the year after Nazareth won a team title, it doesn't feel like it's kids jumping for better opportunities, it's just building an All Star team because the rules say you can. Then add on having a roster with kids as far east as Hackettstown, New Jersey, as far north as East Stroudsburg, as far south as Doylestown, and as far west as Reading, it just kind of feels like "what are we doing here?"
Hey Rover,
Are you hearing anything about Easton football today? Some of my Easton buddies are saying something might change soon.
 
Would seem to be a high profile situation since PR won the title that year, so I'm sure PIAA was involved. Anyone know the back story here? Did the kid live in Pine-Richland SD for just that football season? Seems shady from the outside.
It's been discussed on here. Even without him pr wins the title but pr had to appeal to the wpial and the Piaa and he was ruled eligible. He was living with his brother and his brother was picked up by the Steelers. Now imagine entire teams of players like that without having the appeal process. That's what we are seeing now a days in the Piaa.
 
Artie Burns (picked by steelers) moved to P-R in the summer/fall of 2016. During his rookie year in the NFL, his grandmother kept his two younger brothers who he had custody of because his Dad was in jail and his mom had died I believe. After that season ended, both of the younger brothers (a freshman and a senior) moved to P-R and lived with Artie. After the football season, Thomas moved back to FL to run track (he ran in college) and Jordan stayed. Jordan stayed at P-R until he graduated in 2020 and played as a running back on the football team.
 
Hey Rover,
Are you hearing anything about Easton football today? Some of my Easton buddies are saying something might change soon.
I had heard rumors, but not from people who would actually know anything. It just went public that Braido told his team he’s resigning. I’ll have a new thread, I tried to hijack this one enough as is.
 
It's been discussed on here. Even without him pr wins the title but pr had to appeal to the wpial and the Piaa and he was ruled eligible. He was living with his brother and his brother was picked up by the Steelers. Now imagine entire teams of players like that without having the appeal process. That's what we are seeing now a days in the Piaa.
Entire teams of high level players living with their professional athlete siblings for one specific sports season before moving back? If you all hadn't jumped the shark already...
 
Entire teams of high level players living with their professional athlete siblings for one specific sports season before moving back? If you all hadn't jumped the shark already...
I'll break it down so you can understand. Entire teams of high level recruits aka pcl. Check out the MaxPreps basketball rankings. You have tep, Roman, and Neumann all in the top 25 now. This is what kills the public school sports on the eastern part of the state.
 
I'll break it down so you can understand. Entire teams of high level recruits aka pcl. Check out the MaxPreps basketball rankings. You have tep, Roman, and Neumann all in the top 25 now. This is what kills the public school sports on the eastern part of the state.
So you think 3 schools in Philadelphia (one of the best basketball cities around) having elite basketball teams is equivalent to a student competing thousands of miles away in different states in the same year. Got it. You have broken it down to something I can now understand. I appreciate it
 
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The Burns situation is a bit shady. Two schools in one school year aligning with the football and track seasons. I'm wondering if the situation was reversed (where he transferred back to PA for track season after playing football in FL), if PIAA would have allowed it. I'm assuming it's somewhat open season in FL.

The volume of non-boundary schools in the area definitely impacts the rosters of the boundary schools in SE PA.

NOTE: The SJP crew already established the different or multiple state stance doesn't hold water for competitive balance (well, besides a player residing in another state playing for a PA state title seems ridiculous).
 
The Burns situation is a bit shady. Two schools in one school year aligning with the football and track seasons. I'm wondering if the situation was reversed (where he transferred back to PA for track season after playing football in FL), if PIAA would have allowed it. I'm assuming it's somewhat open season in FL.

The volume of non-boundary schools in the area definitely impacts the rosters of the boundary schools in SE PA.

NOTE: The SJP crew already established the different or multiple state stance doesn't hold water for competitive balance (well, besides a player residing in another state playing for a PA state title seems ridiculous).
NJ is only 3 miles from SJP, every kid that goes to SJP from Jersey lives on the shoreline of the Delaware River so its okay 🤪
 
The Burns situation is a bit shady. Two schools in one school year aligning with the football and track seasons. I'm wondering if the situation was reversed (where he transferred back to PA for track season after playing football in FL), if PIAA would have allowed it. I'm assuming it's somewhat open season in FL.

The volume of non-boundary schools in the area definitely impacts the rosters of the boundary schools in SE PA.

NOTE: The SJP crew already established the different or multiple state stance doesn't hold water for competitive balance (well, besides a player residing in another state playing for a PA state title seems ridiculous).
Again - another comment out of context … simply put, they have drawn students from NJ for over 70 years, possibly longer, its nothing new nor done specifically for a competitive advantage, however, having open enrollment can be advantageous … they DO NOT have students/players from any other state and the NJ students are all within relative radius to SJP making up close to 15% or more of population.
 
Agreed, like I stated before, the SJP guys already established that multistate teams do not have any advantage with competitive balance. We’re strictly talking non-boundary vs boundary.
 
Schools in philly have a competitive advantage just by being in Philadelphia. Thats the funniest thing about all these arguments. Why are people so surprised that the biggest city in the state is dominating the big sports? It would be stranger if they werent lol. Philly has like 5x the population of pittsburgh, let alone the other areas the state. We're shocked that DeAndre Swifts, Marvin Harrisons, Kyle McCords, and Trotter's arent sprouting up in Avon Grove or Erie every year? Thats just statistics and probability guys.
 
Schools in philly have a competitive advantage just by being in Philadelphia. Thats the funniest thing about all these arguments. Why are people so surprised that the biggest city in the state is dominating the big sports? It would be stranger if they werent lol. Philly has like 5x the population of pittsburgh, let alone the other areas the state. We're shocked that DeAndre Swifts, Marvin Harrisons, Kyle McCords, and Trotter's arent sprouting up in Avon Grove or Erie every year? Thats just statistics and probability guys.
Geez Yeez!
Population density and raw talent aren't the points of contention various posters have been arguing over the years. Be nice if it was that simple!
 
Schools in philly have a competitive advantage just by being in Philadelphia. Thats the funniest thing about all these arguments. Why are people so surprised that the biggest city in the state is dominating the big sports? It would be stranger if they werent lol. Philly has like 5x the population of pittsburgh, let alone the other areas the state. We're shocked that DeAndre Swifts, Marvin Harrisons, Kyle McCords, and Trotter's arent sprouting up in Avon Grove or Erie every year? Thats just statistics and probability guys.
only the Philly all star teams are "dominating", the WPIAL is still king and it has by far the most state titles to prove it

outside of the late 90's that's largely the only way you Philly guys compete with us, by putting together all star teams

the guys you listed don't even compare to WPIAL guys like Darrelle Revis and Aaron Donald, heck they don't even compare to guys like Terrelle Pryor at least not yet
 
only the Philly all star teams are "dominating", the WPIAL is still king and it has by far the most state titles to prove it

outside of the late 90's that's largely the only way you Philly guys compete with us, by putting together all star teams

the guys you listed don't even compare to WPIAL guys like Darrelle Revis and Aaron Donald, heck they don't even compare to guys like Terrelle Pryor at least not yet
That’s actually ironic and laughable at the same time … man, the fair share of westies on this board need a trophy
 
I have said this for about 15 years it is time for many of the WPIAL schools to combine. Thomas Jefferson and Clairton, East Allegheny and McKeesport, Belle Vernon and Monesson, Aliquippa and Hopewell ect. It would be good for the tax base , academics and athletics. If the WPIAL did that the athletics would be unreal.
 
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only the Philly all star teams are "dominating", the WPIAL is still king and it has by far the most state titles to prove it

outside of the late 90's that's largely the only way you Philly guys compete with us, by putting together all star teams

the guys you listed don't even compare to WPIAL guys like Darrelle Revis and Aaron Donald, heck they don't even compare to guys like Terrelle Pryor at least not yet
"The 19 year olds you listed dont compare to these 30 year old future hall of famers" OH NO!
Get a grip. Is Philly the big bad wolf or inferior to the west? Can't be both. Stop complaining
 
only the Philly all star teams are "dominating", the WPIAL is still king and it has by far the most state titles to prove it

outside of the late 90's that's largely the only way you Philly guys compete with us, by putting together all star teams

the guys you listed don't even compare to WPIAL guys like Darrelle Revis and Aaron Donald, heck they don't even compare to guys like Terrelle Pryor at least not yet
You should have more state titles given District 12 wasn’t able to compete for a state title prior to this millennium. 😂😂
 
I have said this for about 15 years it is time for many of the WPIAL schools to combine. Thomas Jefferson and Clairton, East Allegheny and McKeesport, Belle Vernon and Monesson, Aliquippa and Hopewell ect. It would be good for the tax base , academics and athletics. If the WPIAL did that the athletics would be unreal.

the small urban school like Clairton will argue they are losing their identity, and the bigger white school like TJ will argue their academics and property values are being destroyed

anybody that says otherwise is not an honest person

and Belle Vernon is already getting Monessen's best players
 
"The 19 year olds you listed dont compare to these 30 year old future hall of famers" OH NO!
Get a grip. Is Philly the big bad wolf or inferior to the west? Can't be both. Stop complaining
well we have Miles Sanders, is he any worse than Deandre Swift?

the other guys are still in college and Mccord for example hasn't even seen the field, call me when he actually does... anything at all
 
the small urban school like Clairton will argue they are losing their identity, and the bigger white school like TJ will argue their academics and property values are being destroyed

anybody that says otherwise is not an honest person

and Belle Vernon is already getting Monessen's best players
Why will a 'white school' as you characterize TJ "argue academics and prop vals are being destroyed" by a merger with Clairton?
Also please define what a "white school" is as compared to Clairton....an urban school?
 
Why will a 'white school' as you characterize TJ "argue academics and prop vals are being destroyed" by a merger with Clairton?
Also please define what a "white school" is as compared to Clairton....an urban school?
i have a better question, why don't you tell me why they aren't merging since you seem to think i'm wrong and probably implying that i'm being "racist"

but to answer your last question, a white school is kids that are largely white, TJ has maybe 1 black kid on its team each year, and an urban school is largely black, I don't think I've ever seen a white kid on their team

hope that helps, can't wait to see how you spin this
 
well we have Miles Sanders, is he any worse than Deandre Swift?

the other guys are still in college and Mccord for example hasn't even seen the field, call me when he actually does... anything at all
Didn't answer my question. Big bad wolf or inferior to the west?
This board is an amazing study in the psychology of grievance. could have students come read this as a case study.

"it doesnt matter that PR had a kid play football for 3 months and then move back to florida!"
"They would've won anyway!"
"unfair advantage!"
"We're still better tho! look at our NFL guys!"
No one in the PCL is doing anything different than pre2010 when you all said they were too small and cute. Thats a nice cute league you guys have, but were big public schools and this is big boy football. Real football is played out West. Guess what? You were wrong. Get over it. Kicking them out wont do anything. Youll never really be the champ unless you beat one of them like PR and Lebo did
 
i have a better question, why don't you tell me why they aren't merging since you seem to think i'm wrong and probably implying that i'm being "racist"

but to answer your last question, a white school is kids that are largely white, TJ has maybe 1 black kid on its team each year, and an urban school is largely black, I don't think I've ever seen a white kid on their team

hope that helps, can't wait to see how you spin this
I don't think you're wrong or right and I don't know anything about potential mergers. I asked you a simple question. If you think that's spin, maybe I'm talking to a teenager with no offense intended. I thought I was talking to an adult.

But........you still haven't answered the question that was simple enough. Here it is again. Why will a 'white school' as you characterize TJ "argue academics and prop vals are being destroyed" by a merger with Clairton?

That's not spin. That's a simple question.
 
Didn't answer my question. Big bad wolf or inferior to the west?
This board is an amazing study in the psychology of grievance. could have students come read this as a case study.

"it doesnt matter that PR had a kid play football for 3 months and then move back to florida!"
"They would've won anyway!"
"unfair advantage!"
"We're still better tho! look at our NFL guys!"
No one in the PCL is doing anything different than pre2010 when you all said they were too small and cute. Thats a nice cute league you guys have, but were big public schools and this is big boy football. Real football is played out West. Guess what? You were wrong. Get over it. Kicking them out wont do anything. Youll never really be the champ unless you beat one of them like PR and Lebo did
outside of SJP, largely inferior to the west

i'm not defending PR, they have plenty of skeletons in their closet

SJP will never be celebrated like other champs though because of their advantages, that's all i'm saying

CB West was respected during their run, i don't think SJP will ever be looked at the same
 
I don't think you're wrong or right and I don't know anything about potential mergers. I asked you a simple question. If you think that's spin, maybe I'm talking to a teenager with no offense intended. I thought I was talking to an adult.

But........you still haven't answered the question that was simple enough. Here it is again. Why will a 'white school' as you characterize TJ "argue academics and prop vals are being destroyed" by a merger with Clairton?

That's not spin. That's a simple question.
because it's a fact, the academics get worse and the property values go down and the urban schools don't want to lose their identity

look at Duquesne when they closed, West Mifflin didn't want those kids and Duquesne people complained about lost identity

if it's not true why aren't these schools merging, why does the wpial have so many small urban schools?

it's reality that people, or should i say liberals, don't want to admit
 
outside of SJP, largely inferior to the west

i'm not defending PR, they have plenty of skeletons in their closet

SJP will never be celebrated like other champs though because of their advantages, that's all i'm saying

CB West was respected during their run, i don't think SJP will ever be looked at the same
But you do respect Mt Lebanon ?
 
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