It's really getting out of control with some of theses schools out east. They are able to recruit these super teams. Look at basketball this year with tep, Roman, and Newman. It's ruining highschool sports.
My takeaway from the 2022 state championships
- Thread starter northalleghenytiger
- Start date
😂😂😂😂 you must be cooying and pasting at this point. You know nothing about those teams. You’re assuming bc they’re ranked they must recruited from all over.
Well anyone who is "Ranked", has got some help from somewhere else. But again "if" I was coaching in the PIAA I would be recruiting like a mother. And if the WPIAL or PIAA tried to come down on me I am sure you could take that to litigation. Now I have coached a long time and the teams that are the best get some help form other places rather than their back yards. Is it right? Is it wrong? Nobody cares. The winners will keep winning the losers will keep losing unless the losers are willing to do the same thing as those who win. As a football coach in the SOL, are you willing to take the heat for finding ways for kids that are not in your district to find a way to your school??? If not then you get what you get but I can tell you what I would not take the PCL tea bagging me without pushing al the boundries I possibly can. If some of the coaches I know took some jobs up there it would be like a bum rush prison rape and St. Joes would still be great but there might be others in that area that would be just as good.
SOL had kids from Philly sprinkled all over that league. District 12 didn’t care one bit. Coatesville was being protested from teams in district 1. North Penns best player was from Philly and again teams from that district protested. Families should be able to send their children wherever they want.
3 schools in the city of Philadelphia are really really good at basketball. Need Columbo on this case
Ok then it looks like some coaches are trying to keep up. I am telling you you get a shark up there I am not talking like some slack jaw local who just wants to be called head coach, but a true football coach shark, you would see things change in a hurry
Of all places right. Philadelphia has been known for basketball for how long now? He’s mad bc the wpial can’t get one in. If wpial was winning he wouldn’t have an issue.
How familiar are you with basketball in SE PA? This year ten or more of the PCL schools are good enough to reach the state final in their classifications, though of course that won't happen because of how the playoffs work, e.g., two PCL teams in the same classification will have to play one another in an elimination game before they get near a state final game. But this year N-G, Roman, Ryan, Carroll, WC, B-P, SJP, DP, Wood, and O'H--maybe LaSalle and Judge too--are look to be among the best half dozen teams in the state in their own classifications--something attested to by their non-league records to date. (And note that N-G beat WC by one point last week.)
If you think for a second, you'll figure out that it is absolutely not the case that three schools are getting nearly all the top talent in the area, i.e., there are not three all-star teams and all the rest way below them.
yet another post where you post nothing other than whining about other posters
the board must have been a total snooze fest
how do i make it less "inclusive"? can't wait to hear your answer to that considering it's you that seems to be territorial and can't stand seeing anything that you don't agree with
you voted Joe Biden didn't you?
what is stopping those debates from happening now?
i have started several threads talking about teams from the past and they hardly get any response
the only time "roxy" and his instagram BFF's liking his whiny posts respond to me is to cry about me picking on the poor "victim" SJP
but i'm not "inclusive" HAHA
explain
and the only reason you are so Pro SJP is because your team hasn't been affected by them since 2014, thanks to moving down in class to avoid them
why don't you think about something other than your own little bubble in PR?
Read the other comments - I’ll summarize - you and your comments are universally uninformed, unappreciated and uneducated - you’re laughable with the name calling and political insinuations - true sign of insecurity and mental midgetry
it's the philly area, you knew what i meant
i'm sure the schools in the city are garbage, those kids in SJP aren't all from the city
haha yet another post of you whining about other posts
why aren't you inclusive? when will you post something interesting or informative?
don't dish it out if you can't take it
I don't like or respect SJP you will have to learn to live with that
if i was insecure i would cry about somebody being mean to a high school
maybe because your basketball team has benefited from the same rules, or should i say non rules
It’s safe to say we’ve all come to an agreement. Public and private should exist, but be separated
I’ve been on this board 13 years I think. While SJP has been way more dominant, and discouraging from a “how are you going to build a program to beat them” perspective, one advantage of SJP being the dominant team is that their posters on here are WAY less irritating than the LaSalle crew that used to dominate the discourse in the late 2000s/early 2010s.
it's true NA has benefited from transfers over the years
but they also lost a lot of kids to private schools too, a lot of kids at North Catholic when they built their new school and Vincentian Academy before it closed were from the NA area
it's funny to see this alliance between PR and SJP fans, which wouldn't exist if PR didn't move down
I haven’t been on the board that long, so I can’t speak on that. However the “how are you going to build a program to beat them” thing is exactly that. There is literally no way to consistently beat them. Narrowing it down to public schools is even worse.
The only teams to beat them in the past 10 years have been public schools with generational seniors classes. That’s no blueprint, that’s good old fashioned luck
The only way st joes prep declines is if they recruit poorly, and even if that happens, another private school will take its place
The team I rooted for lost to them in 2015, beat them in 2017 and lost to them in 2018. Lebo beat them in 2020. People spend way too much time on how unfair things are rather than trying to get better. Complain complain complain instead of work work work.
I don’t give a sh$tabout anything but P-R through 2020. I saw what can happen. If Coatesville or North Penn or Parkland or whoever loses, why should I care?
Here’s a trophy. 🏆Hand it out to somebody crying about not being good enough.
I thought I could bring people together by ragging on LaSalle. Oh well.
If you pay tuition, your kid can attend any public school in the state.
Average IQ of people posting on this thread is a solid 50. No more dumb comments, please. This is supposed to be an intelligent discussion
Good point. Just staying with the Pubs, Philly has been a hoops hotbed forever as in Wilt's Overbrook teams of the 50s, Speedboys (Gene Banks) of West Philly in the 70s, Gratz (Rasheed Wallace) in 90s, sometimes going undefeated. One of them had or has the state's longest winning streak of 60 some games? I took a stab at a Top Ten years ago but couldn't hang with that and football. The reason for the city being a hotbed may trace to the Big 5 whose influence spread to District-3 with Gettysburg College in the MAC playing LaSalle, St. Joe's, Temple that wowed us as kids.
lol that’s pretty rich, I think NA’s football team and basketball team have benefited much more from those schools being In proximity to them as well as Vincentian closing than the other way around. No relevant football players from NA are at north.
PR didn’t move down. They are playing at their enrollment.
.
It’s a fool’s errand trying to find an equal playing field between public and private schools. Athletics are not the driving force for most schools or school districts like it is here on a HS football forum. There will always be advantages and disadvantages that cannot be eliminated. It’s not even a worthwhile goal from a character-building standpoint to make everything equal. If you don’t have adversity to overcome, how do you build character?
For a little historical perspective, its been over 25 years since Gil Brooks started the transformation of SJP from an average Philly Catholic League (PCL) team to a perennial national power (in football). I think 2003 was the first time SJP was ranked in the top 10 in a national poll (#3 USA Today) At that time and for a significant number of years before that, PCL dioecian schools (all boy schools other than SJP, LaSalle and Roman) had open enrolment. That might have started in the late 80’s, early 90’s? Not sure.
I began posting on this forum or its predecessor in the late 90’s. My impression was that at the time at least in the eastern part of the state and the SOL was that the PCL was looked down on by the public/boundary/ taxpayer funded school fans. PCL guys in general, me included, didn’t think all that much about the PIAA state championships and that the PCL teams could play with anyone. The occasional crossover non-league games were just some fodder for some bragging rights. A PCL championship was the ultimate goal. There were no classifications back them. The PCL joining the PIAA was a big change. I don’t think it a made a difference for the average middle of the road player, those without Division I aspirations, but it did make a difference for the more elite players, giving them more visibility and a chance to play for a state championship.
The advantages and disadvantages ebb and flow over time. What is sometimes overlooked or ignored prior to the PCL joining the PIAA, is the extent that taxpayer funded school rosters were built up by CYO players who would have otherwise gone to PCL teams if was not for the tuition hurdle. I was CYO coach for 12-14 years in lower Bucks county and NE Philly and saw many kids that would have gone to Ryan, Wood, Eagan, etc., rather than Neshaminy, CB West, Pennsbury, etc. if not for the PCL tuition. Some really good players. A big advantage for taxpayer funded schools. Parents may gripe about it, but they still make the choice for a variety of reason. If you want to make everything equal eliminate all boundaries and enact school choice laws where every student gets the same amount of taxpayer funds
It’s a fool’s errand trying to find an equal playing field between public and private schools. Athletics are not the driving force for most schools or school districts like it is here on a HS football forum. There will always be advantages and disadvantages that cannot be eliminated. It’s not even a worthwhile goal from a character-building standpoint to make everything equal. If you don’t have adversity to overcome, how do you build character?
For a little historical perspective, its been over 25 years since Gil Brooks started the transformation of SJP from an average Philly Catholic League (PCL) team to a perennial national power (in football). I think 2003 was the first time SJP was ranked in the top 10 in a national poll (#3 USA Today) At that time and for a significant number of years before that, PCL dioecian schools (all boy schools other than SJP, LaSalle and Roman) had open enrolment. That might have started in the late 80’s, early 90’s? Not sure.
I began posting on this forum or its predecessor in the late 90’s. My impression was that at the time at least in the eastern part of the state and the SOL was that the PCL was looked down on by the public/boundary/ taxpayer funded school fans. PCL guys in general, me included, didn’t think all that much about the PIAA state championships and that the PCL teams could play with anyone. The occasional crossover non-league games were just some fodder for some bragging rights. A PCL championship was the ultimate goal. There were no classifications back them. The PCL joining the PIAA was a big change. I don’t think it a made a difference for the average middle of the road player, those without Division I aspirations, but it did make a difference for the more elite players, giving them more visibility and a chance to play for a state championship.
The advantages and disadvantages ebb and flow over time. What is sometimes overlooked or ignored prior to the PCL joining the PIAA, is the extent that taxpayer funded school rosters were built up by CYO players who would have otherwise gone to PCL teams if was not for the tuition hurdle. I was CYO coach for 12-14 years in lower Bucks county and NE Philly and saw many kids that would have gone to Ryan, Wood, Eagan, etc., rather than Neshaminy, CB West, Pennsbury, etc. if not for the PCL tuition. Some really good players. A big advantage for taxpayer funded schools. Parents may gripe about it, but they still make the choice for a variety of reason. If you want to make everything equal eliminate all boundaries and enact school choice laws where every student gets the same amount of taxpayer funds
For any of you guys who may have played in the DVFC semi-pro league in the 70's 80's, some old Bucks County Redskins have organized a little reunion today. Former Somerton All Stars, Far NE ?, Bridesburg Eagles, Pendel Pros, Venago Bears, Philly Saints, Cape May Cowboys, etc. all welcome.
Its at Barrell Splitters at the end of Woodhaven Rd/ Rt 63 on the spur road between Woodhaven and Byberry Rds.
Its at Barrell Splitters at the end of Woodhaven Rd/ Rt 63 on the spur road between Woodhaven and Byberry Rds.
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GumbaToo!
It's great seeing one of the "old gang" throw a comment or two out now and then (brings memories of the good old days on this Board when the debates could be almost as cantankerous as today but with a slightly more collegial feel).
And then the semi-pro teams! You know a fellow loves the game when he's willing to risk "life & limb" for the sport without much pay or the adulation or other benefits of high school ball and/or college level action (well, at least limb).
Seems I can recall going to watch various contests over in Penndel as a kid with quite a rich history in Lower Bucks that attracted nearly everyone as either a participant or spectator. For instance, the first principal of the amalgamated Langhorne-Middletown High School -- and the Redskin's coach for the first team in 1928 -- , William Thomas, was the QB for the Langhorne Aces in the early '30s (the Aces it seems were one of the local semi-pro teams at that time)..
Now those were the days!
It's great seeing one of the "old gang" throw a comment or two out now and then (brings memories of the good old days on this Board when the debates could be almost as cantankerous as today but with a slightly more collegial feel).
And then the semi-pro teams! You know a fellow loves the game when he's willing to risk "life & limb" for the sport without much pay or the adulation or other benefits of high school ball and/or college level action (well, at least limb).
Seems I can recall going to watch various contests over in Penndel as a kid with quite a rich history in Lower Bucks that attracted nearly everyone as either a participant or spectator. For instance, the first principal of the amalgamated Langhorne-Middletown High School -- and the Redskin's coach for the first team in 1928 -- , William Thomas, was the QB for the Langhorne Aces in the early '30s (the Aces it seems were one of the local semi-pro teams at that time)..
Now those were the days!
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Going back to my first point, it’s clear that the move to Cumberland Valley was a complete and utter failure. It was the 2nd lowest attendance ever. First was 2020 (Covid)
Complete and utter failure? Didn't they play the games there? And, where do you get your information? I'd do a double check!
Via Google, etc....
Across the six championship games, the PIAA sold 15,729 tickets to the football state championships at Cumberland Valley. The PIAA says there was an increase in attendance to the games, and paid attendance was about the same as 2021. Dec 14, 2022.
******** It was the WPIAL that had their lowest EVER attendance. See Post-Gazette
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There’s two clowns on this board now, that believe if they sat it, it’s true … it’s obvious who they are
I read from Mike white that the attendance was low. Obviously there seems to be different figures. It’s funny how I have never called you names, yet you call me a clown.
Even if attendance was decent, Cumberland valley is still a low tier place to have a state championship. No disrespect to Cumberland, I’m sure it’s great. PA will always be second rate if it’s at a high school
Welcome back, Gumba.
Your comments relate to one of the biggest changes that has affected hs football (and much else) at least in the Philly area. It used to be that nearly all the kids who went to Catholic high schools went to Catholic elementary schools--and needless to say came from Catholic families. And until about 30 years ago, long before the PCL entered the PIAA, nearly all Catholic high schools (but not SJP and LaSalle) drew students from only nearby Catholic elementary schools. Some Catholic kids, though, went to public high schools after going to Catholic elementary schools, often because their parents couldn't or didn't want to pay high school tuition fees. But now when so many Catholic elementary schools have closed and lots of Catholics no longer want to send their kids to a Catholic elementary school even if there is one nearby, people connected to public schools--and that certainly includes some of the people on this board who have long backed a particular hs football team or league--regard all the kids who attend a district's public elementary school as belonging to the district. If they go to a Catholic highschool, it can seem to some people as if they've been seduced or lured by the Catholic school. The fact that many students who attend Catholic high schools, including SJP, are not Catholics or from Catholic families just reinforces this view. But all these changes have happened not primarily for any reason having to do with sports. If you look at the situation mainly or exclusively in relation to sports, it may look one way, but that's quite a myopic way of seeing it all.
I know you know all of this, but it's clear some of the posters have not lived through these changes or seen them up close. I'd also say that lots of changes related to college football, to the coverage of hs football on ESPN, and to social media have also had a huge influence on hs football today. I don't think they're all good changes, but they are realities.
Thanks, Tulla. I think I follow what you are saying. Its easy to lose focus and perspective on this board. Everyone here has a big interest on HS football. At the same time, HS football does not mean anything to many administrators, parents, alumni, and students. Changes that are made by school districts, taxpayers, the Philadelphia Diocese are made often without any consideration on the competitive ness of football programs.
As an example, look at all the PCL high schools that have closed over the last 40-50 years. Dougherty, St James, Kennedy-Kendrick, McDevitt, North Catholic. The closure of those schools had absolutely nothing to do with football or athletics of any kind. It was all about reducing costs. At the same time, it probably concentrated the PCL football talent in a smaller and smaller number of schools. That's not fair or unfair to taxpayer funded football programs, its just the way it is.
NA, I think the numbers to trust are from the gatekeeper, the PIAA. And I don't know if you've been to Her Park Stad or Chapman Field but both have more than adequate seating and parking (see attendance numbers) and are easy to get to. CV spent a ton upgrading seating, press box (up there!), new field, an impressive/modern scoreboard, etc. I think it's almost a picturesque setting but realize opinions vary.
I don't know that 'PA will always be second rate if it’s at a high school' as other alternatives aren't affordable; Villanova for example. Money and interest/enthusiasm matter!
I think the point he’s trying to make is compared to other states that border PA, playing a state champion at a high school football stadium is lame. Ohio plays at the HOF in Canton, NJ plays in the meadowlands, Maryland plays at the Navy stadium etc. I feel like they should just switch between the Steelers and Eagles stadiums. Ideally you play at Penn State but the school won’t allow it.
Trust me I get what you’re saying. Cumberland valley from what I see online has a cool stadium. But for lack of a better term, it’s just so lame. I’d be saying the same thing if it were at NA. Every state that’s the same size as PA has it at a historic stadium. Hershey was a pretty iconic place, but as I said before it smelled like cow manure.
What about a place like Bucknell? Not huge and it’s pretty central of the state. Good parking too from what I remember.
That's not a bad idea (Christy Mathewson-Memorial Stadium),
Check it:
bucknellbison.com
The video on that page certainly gives it a nice look (seats 13K -- perfect).
And it is more or less in the middle of the state (north of Harrisburg so you can take the turnpike -- or Route 80 -- and make a right or left depending on where you're coming from).
I like it!
Check it:
Christy Mathewson-Memorial Stadium - Facilities - Bucknell University Athletics
Christy Mathewson-Memorial Stadium. The official facility page for the Bucknell University Bison
The video on that page certainly gives it a nice look (seats 13K -- perfect).
And it is more or less in the middle of the state (north of Harrisburg so you can take the turnpike -- or Route 80 -- and make a right or left depending on where you're coming from).
I like it!
