northalleghenytiger said:

It’s about time the best wpial team of all time gets it’s recognition. It’s too bad the best linemen on that team was charged with trafficking people in august

Click to expand...

? who just got charged? i missed that one!

00shoe said:

Rankings are guesses. Most of these players spend HS playing against DIII DB. There are FCS receiver better then what PSU has. Being a college receiver is more than running fast.

Click to expand...

I know but just saying they had kids that were wanted by every school, it's not like they were a bunch of walk ons so recruiting wasn't necessarily the problem

northalleghenytiger said:

North Allegheny is pretty mediocre at basketball. They should be better

Click to expand...

2012 NA football team just got into the wpial hall of fame

BradlyPitt said:

those receivers were ranked pretty high coming out of high school

Fleming was from the portal, he was a 5 star prospect

Click to expand...

Rankings are guesses. Most of these players spend HS playing against DIII DB. There are FCS receiver better then what PSU has. Being a college receiver is more than running fast.

00shoe said:

PSU can never get a quarterback. QB. has slow feet and any pass over 15 yards has to much air under it. No completions to wide receivers. Good teams play the run and beg PSU to pass. Coaches fault is recruiting. Time to hit the portal.

Click to expand...

those receivers were ranked pretty high coming out of high school

Fleming was from the portal, he was a 5 star prospect

Stalker said:

Just back from a trip to Gettysburg but could not agree more. In the case of PSU, just consider the source! Abysmal coaching as usual from Franklin in games against quality (+.500) on the road. Typical!

Click to expand...

PSU can never get a quarterback. QB. has slow feet and any pass over 15 yards has to much air under it. No completions to wide receivers. Good teams play the run and beg PSU to pass. Coaches fault is recruiting. Time to hit the portal.

Fletchster1 said:

Two great semifinal games that basically came down to one possession games. Texas play caller might have consulted with PSU play caller to determine worst way to give a game away.

Click to expand...

Just back from a trip to Gettysburg but could not agree more. In the case of PSU, just consider the source! Abysmal coaching as usual from Franklin in games against quality (+.500) on the road. Typical!

Here are the seeds for Escape The Rock this weekend.

It’s incredible to look at the D2 and D3 maps and see how half the country has little opportunity near them outside of D1 football.

Two great semifinal games that basically came down to one possession games. Texas play caller might have consulted with PSU play caller to determine worst way to give a game away.

steelcurtain55. said:

Again, we're seeing kind of a renaissance in D3 Football in PA. Suquehanna, Grove City, W&J, Carnegie Mellon, Del Valley, etc have all been top 25 programs in the last few years and this is with having a large D2 conference in state.

Click to expand...

Large D2 conference, yes, but none are fully funded. Dollars are hard to come by in the PSAC. Nice seeing a resurgence of D3 prominence in PA (Muhlenberg has also been good for a few years). Need Widener to invest in football again.

The main reason that the Dakotas are dominating D1-AA is there are no solid D1-A programs locally.
Ferris is dominating D2 for the same reason - no solid D1-AA programs locally.
Mount Union is losing it's stranglehold on D3 now that Ohio has some solid D2 programs.

That being said, the administration and coaching staffs at those particular schools are doing their part to make it happen.

new2pa said:

I’ll stand corrected on the short fat kids comment. Just saw kid get Penn offer. Wasn’t short or fat.

Click to expand...

I was at the title game and didn't think PR had too many "short" kids on the DL or OL. They were pretty big w/ regards to height and weight.

It's not really a surprise that NDSU has dominated the FCS the past 20 years. They were outstanding when they were in D2 as well. Rocky Hager was the coach when they were D2 (old split back veer guy) who later retired in NJ coaching at the D3 level.

With regards to the geography hypothesis, the only place I think this truly holds some water is in Ohio. For the longest time, Ohio only had NCAA sponsored D1, D1AA, and D3 football. The current D2 schools like Findlay, Walsh, Ohio Dominican, etc were all NAIA schools. If a kid was choosing between an Ohio D3 school and one of those D3 schools they often chose the D3 schools because the football and education was superior. Ohio not having D2 saw them create a very good version of D3 football.

Most of the states that don't have D2 or have limited D2 schools often have better instate $$$ packages then those kids leaving for nearby states for out-of-state scholarships.

Nowadays, that doesn't always hold weight though. Case in point, there was a time and place where you rarely saw PSAC schools with more then a handful of out of state kids due to the out of state tuition costs. Secondly, PA HS football had better #'s and they didn't need to venture out of state for kids. Today, we see PSAC schools hammering Maryland. The trend is to find kids that qualify for a Pell Grant and then offer them a 1/2 ride for football. Those kids rarely pay a dime for their education. Maryland never has but 1 D1 school in Bowie State (HBCU) until Frostburg jumped up.

Again, we're seeing kind of a renaissance in D3 Football in PA. Suquehanna, Grove City, W&J, Carnegie Mellon, Del Valley, etc have all been top 25 programs in the last few years and this is with having a large D2 conference in state.

bucksftball said:

I've talked with high school coaches from the West coast, especially the Pacific northwest who say we don't know how lucky we are in PA to have the PSAC and so many D3 programs in the Northeast. There are a lot of HS football players in geographical areas where if you're not a D1 guy, you have limited options to play at the next level.

In addition to the Ivy League, the NESCAC guys are hoping that decision will also break things loose for them and they can join the D3 playoffs in the near future, if not this year. They're in the same situation as the Ivies, with national rosters because of academics, and chomping at the bit to see where they fit in the D3 hierarchy.

Click to expand...

That’s one area where Lafayette has tons of recruiting success, particularly when they were really good in the mid 2000s. They’d get tons of kids from Florida to come up to little, cold Easton Pennsylvania, because there were no FCS programs to speak of in Florida. If they weren’t good enough to play at the big schools, they couldn’t stay close to home, so Lafayette used to hit recruiting down there really hard, because they had a shot.

I've talked with high school coaches from the West coast, especially the Pacific northwest who say we don't know how lucky we are in PA to have the PSAC and so many D3 programs in the Northeast. There are a lot of HS football players in geographical areas where if you're not a D1 guy, you have limited options to play at the next level.

In addition to the Ivy League, the NESCAC guys are hoping that decision will also break things loose for them and they can join the D3 playoffs in the near future, if not this year. They're in the same situation as the Ivies, with national rosters because of academics, and chomping at the bit to see where they fit in the D3 hierarchy.

Fletchster1 said:

See "In General", always exceptions:

D1-AA top tier is located away from quality D1-A programs.

Georgia Southern hasn't won in 24 years. Marshall was 1996.​

JMU snuck through a few times, but Virginia isn't exactly loaded with solid D1-A Programs.​

D2 top tier is located away from quality D1-AA programs. i.e. Michigan

Ferris, Valdosta, NW Missouri, Pittsburg don't have CAA type D1-AA programs pulling from them like PSAC.​

D3 top tier is located away from quality D2 programs. i.e. Ohio, Illinois

Mount Union is close to PSAC West , but PSAC has never won a D2 championship and won't anytime soon.​

St John's (MN) has MN State (few finals and semis) and Bemidji which have been solid as of late.​

WI Whitewater is 6 hours from Ferris.​

​

Ease of transferring nowadays will definitely shift the playing field.

Click to expand...

Georgia Southern moved up after the 2013 season. And while their last national title was 2000, they went to the final four in 2001, 2002, 2010, 2011, and 2012.

James Madison won national titles in 2004 and 2016, made the finals in 2017 and 2019, and the final four in 2008, 2020, and 2021.

Marshall moved up in 1996, so I'm talking about ancient history, but they did go to the national title game in 1987, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, and 1996, with a final four in 1994 (national champs in 1992 and 1996).

My larger point is not that your geography point is a bad one - it holds a lot of water - but I think the specific dominance of the Big Sky/Missouri Valley schools in FCS (North Dakota State in particular, but the other Dakotas and Montana) is also largely attributable to the similarly resourced and serious about football programs leaving FCS to chase dollars in FBS. I don't think NDSU wins ten of the last fourteen national titles if the list of schools I mentioned all are still competing against them. You have seen a major weakining of the SoCon and Big South - there was a time when schools like Furman and Wofford were consistently top 15 programs that could push for final four berths, they've fallen off a cliff as their conference mates have disappeared to FBS as well. William & Mary and Richmond in the southern part of the CAA (Richmond moving to the Patriot League next year) have suffered similar fates, as have midwestern former powers like Youngstown State and Southern Illinois. FCS is in a weird place.

It will be very interesting to see how the addition of the Ivy League in the playoffs next year changes the national landscape. They don't necessarily get thought of, because the academics are what they are, and they've never competed in the playoffs due to league rules. But they are schools with virtually unlimited financial resources who recruit nationally - and while they absolutely have limits on the kids they can take due to academics, with any reasonably qualified kid academically they are incredibly hard to beat in a recruiting battle and they win a lot of really elite talent from all over the country. If you look at things like Bill Connlley's SP+, there have been multiple Ivy League teams in the top 10 the last few years and I think whoever comes out of that league (which I also think will get multiple bids) are going to make deep runs and change some FCS paradigms.

Full disclosure - my dad was the chair of the FCS Playoff Committee for years and was an executive with FCS Football Directors committee at various points in his career. Subject near and dear to our hearts.

steelcurtain55. said:

D3-wise

Mt. Union is pretty close to quality D2 programs in the PSAC West.

Saint John's (MN) dynasty was still surrounded by quality D2 programs both in state and the surrounding areas.

Wisconsin Whitewater is surrounded by a great D2 conference in the Great Lakes with Ferris/Saginaw/etc..

During the heyday of the PSAC, Washington and Jefferson as well as Lycoming were top 10 teams year in and year out. Susquehanna and Grove City are seeing a major resurgence in the heart of PSAC territory.

D2-wise

During West Chester, Bloomsburg, and Millersville's run in the 80's and 90's, they were all competing with Delaware and the rest of the Yankee and Atlantic 10 for athletes. In the west schools like IUP, Slippery Rock, etc were all competing with Youngstown State for athletes.

In the South, North Alabama was surrounded by quality D1AA schools in the 90's..

D1AA-wise

During Georgia Southern's run they obviously were surrounded by SEC and ACC schools as was App. State. When Marshall was 1AA they were competing with WVU, VA Tech, Kentucky, Tennessee in their backyard.

James Madison was in the heart of ACC/SEC country.

Click to expand...

See "In General", always exceptions:

D1-AA top tier is located away from quality D1-A programs.
D2 top tier is located away from quality D1-AA programs. i.e. Michigan
D3 top tier is located away from quality D2 programs. i.e. Ohio, Illinois
Ease of transferring nowadays will definitely shift the playing field.

new2pa said:

I’ll stand corrected on the short fat kids comment. Just saw kid get Penn offer. Wasn’t short or fat.

Click to expand...

no worries- funny ironic- but with all the flaws PR has had in the last 4 years- the most consistent parts of the program are OL coaching and Weight/Strength program- solid over the last 8 years, except for the glitch in '21.

One crazy example- Yachenko- from North Allegheny? He has been "super strong" for 3 years- he posted a 520 pound squat? Last summer- at our Lifting Competition- the PR Center this year, Roman Ciacco- squatted 535!! Yes, short, 5'10, 240, but solid muscle

Oh- and the Webb 10th grader? He might be the best DL we have ever produced- stud- yea- likely P4 if he keeps improving over the next 2 years-- sorry i could go on and on!!

2020sports said:

sorry- no, PR has been 3 and 3 in those "ending games" against non-boundary- but this includes Imotep- which i guess is "debatable" being public / Philly / charter

Click to expand...

Imhotep is basically non-boundary. Debate is not public/private, it is boundary/non-boundary.

How about 3 pts better? Ouch.

PSU let that one slip away with really poor QB play, a OC that was blind to how poorly the QB was performing, and a collapse by the D in the 2nd half. But, ND has to get some credit for their 2nd half as they whipped up on the Lions. Great performance by the ND QB(s) in a big spot.

steelcurtain55. said:

I agree with that. They do not look as consistent in execution nor discipline on either side of the ball. The gameplan vs McDevitt was puzzling imho.

Click to expand...

that 2020 team was more talented than any of their recent teams, i think that has more to do with it than anything

Fletchster1 said:

In general:

D1-AA top tier is located away from quality D1-A programs. i.e. North/South Dakota
D2 top tier is located away from quality D1-AA programs. i.e. Michigan
D3 top tier is located away from quality D2 programs. i.e. Ohio, Illinois

Click to expand...

D3-wise

Mt. Union is pretty close to quality D2 programs in the PSAC West.

Saint John's (MN) dynasty was still surrounded by quality D2 programs both in state and the surrounding areas.

Wisconsin Whitewater is surrounded by a great D2 conference in the Great Lakes with Ferris/Saginaw/etc..

During the heyday of the PSAC, Washington and Jefferson as well as Lycoming were top 10 teams year in and year out. Susquehanna and Grove City are seeing a major resurgence in the heart of PSAC territory.

D2-wise

During West Chester, Bloomsburg, and Millersville's run in the 80's and 90's, they were all competing with Delaware and the rest of the Yankee and Atlantic 10 for athletes. In the west schools like IUP, Slippery Rock, etc were all competing with Youngstown State for athletes.

In the South, North Alabama was surrounded by quality D1AA schools in the 90's..

D1AA-wise

During Georgia Southern's run they obviously were surrounded by SEC and ACC schools as was App. State. When Marshall was 1AA they were competing with WVU, VA Tech, Kentucky, Tennessee in their backyard.

James Madison was in the heart of ACC/SEC country.

new2pa said:

I think I was clear in my comments. Product on and off the field is no where near where it was. You can have your own opinion. Not really interested in changing it...

Click to expand...

maybe but the results look the same to me

FCS has shifted massively over the last 25 years to the power programs being in the north central part of the state largely because so many of the best programs have moved up. Schools that have competed for or won national championships (often a lot) that are no longer FCS programs now:
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Marshall
Delaware
Sam Houston State
James Madison
Western Kentucky
UMass
Boise State
Jacksonville State
Louisiana Tech
Nevada

Outside of Boise, I’m not sure how many of those schools are happier moving up. And with the House settlement looming, I think you are going to see a contraction of FBS, frankly, I think you’ll even see schools get kicked out of major conferences for not pulling their weight (the Purdues of the world) and a total separation from the Group of 5 schools. From that standpoint, Delaware’s timing is awful.