Could of, would of, should of - Results on the field are basically irrelevant to this issue. Non-boundary, especially in dense population centers, is a ridiculous advantage over schools restricted by geographic boundaries. Separate the playoffs; all it will take is the District 1 6A ADs to stand-up to the madness.

Emmaus really turned it around after an early season loss to Neshaminy.

I'd be interested in whether others from District 7 agree.

Imagine the following:

• In 2013 Frankford, which had the ball in the last couple of minutes, scores on a long pass and beats SJP in the D12 final. (The final score was 10-7.)
• In 2014 the motion penalty that should have been called against Swift with a few minutes left in the game against Parkland is called and SJP faces a 4th and seven rather than a fourth and two. SJP fails to convert and Parkland rather than SJP wins and goes to the state semi-final.
• In 2016 the North Penn QB holds onto the ball instead of being stripped of it and North Penn goes in for the game-winning score that they very much looked likely to score. North Penn, not SJP, goes onto the state final.
• In 2017 the Coatesville coach doesn't make a couple of head-scratching decisions midway through the third quarter when they were up two scores on the Prep , and Coatesville goes on to win the game that was very much in their grasp.
• In 2019 there is no questionable PI call against PCC on SJP's desperate final drive or maybe Harrison's toe falls an inch further north when he makes his extraordinary catch at the end of regulation, making PCC the winner in the state semifinal.

Now eliminate the two bullet points you find too much of a stretch. and you still have a picture that is quite different from the one that makes many believe SJP pretty much punches its own ticket to the state final just about every year. I count eight close games that SJP played in the PIAA playoffs before they made it to the final in the years since 2013. They won each one of them. My point isn't that SJP hasn't really dominated the large school classification in the last 11 years--of course they have--but that the dominance isn't as absolute or pre-determined as many think. Parkland may have little chance to beat SJP on Friday, but they have no chance if they go into it expecting to get blown out.

tulla said:

How strongly would you feel about it if SJP were not in the picture?

SJP's dominance in the last 11 years--10 appearances in the state final and 8 championships--is partly due to some particular circumstances. The first two years they won the championship, LaSalle was close to them and there were some very close games, e.g. against Parkland and P-R in 2014 and against Neshaminy and Frankford in 2013. Then LaSalle beat them for the league championship in 2015. After that LaSalle weakened quite a bit for reasons I'll leave to someone from LaSalle--it wasn't mainly because of anything SJP was doing. Of course, P-R won easily in 2017 and ML won in 2021. Since the PIAA went to six classifications, can we all agree that there haven't been many strong 6A teams from anywhere in the state? You can say that a school like P-R has one team like the 2017 team every few decades--same for ML in 2021, but in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022 the teams SJP played in the final were nowhere near as good as P-R in 2017 or ML in 2021.

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PR and ML also got to play weaker SJP teams

I think NA and even Central Catholic last year were very comparable to PR in 2017 and ML in 2021

new2pa said:

Happy and not surprised 1 bit that USC lost.

Last 5-7 years they talk way too much after having done absolutely nothing.

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wait I thought you were a Mars fan now

northalleghenytiger said:

That game was as bad as it gets. Completely outmatched in all phases. Disappointing considering how close the first game was. Not sure what compelled central to keep throwing the ball with their starters up 40. Hope they get smashed by SJP.

Hope everyone is excited for a PCC vs SJP final. Yuck, like I said I’m rooting for SJP to smash them… PCC would not be a worthy state champion at all, sorry to sound bitter. They’re good not great. They just played a weak field this season

Tiger for life

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Leihmeier seems like a punk

I don't know the guy, I just don't like how he was hyped up as the circa 1999 Mike Martz of high school football when he was an offensive coordinator

new2pa said:

Let’s wait a week on this. Coach LeDonne hadn’t won anything with “his” kids.

AK (After Kasper) began when Palmerie, etc. graduated.

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3 straight years in the final, it doesn't seem to matter who the coach is

everybody said Campos, who coached Ringgold in 2006 was a bum and he still made the semifinals

JACKY6996 said:

Pretty satisfying tbh. That’s a team of punks. Kids from that team have been talking mad shit all season, in person and on Twitter/X through fake accounts, the fans aren’t much better. Haven’t won anything in nearly 2 decades! And certainly not changing anytime soon

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is it possible you could post a link to their trash talk?

MC1975 said:

When and where is the Parkland Prep game?

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At Pennridge. Pretty good choice imo. Nice stadium, beautiful hillside location. Easier trip from Parkland than SJP. Turf is fairly new.

Edit: Friday night at 7.

When and where is the Parkland Prep game?

RCH13co18 said:

I would not characterize SJP's advantages as being related to "Doyle’s rules," as that would suggest they are relying on older players or operating outside the high school guidelines. These are still high school athletes, just drawn from a larger talent pool. To Tulla's point, we often hear hypothetical scenarios about what teams could have done in a given year—the "what ifs." For example, Imhotep has been vocal about SJP for years, arguing that they were never required to play them. While Imhotep was defeated today, the experience gives them valuable insight into the level of competition needed to succeed. I believe they will learn from this and return better prepared to compete.

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Valuable insight for Imhotep I can see and they could in theory build a program to compete. What is your suggestion for non boundary school to catch up?

I would not characterize SJP's advantages as being related to "Doyle’s rules," as that would suggest they are relying on older players or operating outside the high school guidelines. These are still high school athletes, just drawn from a larger talent pool. To Tulla's point, we often hear hypothetical scenarios about what teams could have done in a given year—the "what ifs." For example, Imhotep has been vocal about SJP for years, arguing that they were never required to play them. While Imhotep was defeated today, the experience gives them valuable insight into the level of competition needed to succeed. I believe they will learn from this and return better prepared to compete.

SJP’s current dominance has highlighted the ridiculousness in the rules in recent years. But, before that, it was Erie Cathedral Prep, PCC, Wood, LaSalle getting a taste of Hershey. Just not sure what SJP gets out of O’Doyle Rules Football. It’s like a travel baseball team playing local little league squads to win a tourney at Ripken, “here’s your trophy, Congratulations on your Championship!”

Yes, a multitude of non-boundary schools could step up to create a dynasty to challenge SJP in 6A or in the lower divisions. Imhotep, LaSalle, Bonner, PJP, McDevitt (heck, Shanahan could do it). Football friendly administration, solid coaching staff, non woke education - boys will come.

Inter-Ac schools aren’t part of the equation as they’re ineligible for PIAA playoffs; that should expand to all non-boundary schools.

I was impressed with pcc tonight. I want to see a better OL in Pa.

Fletchster1 said:

Yes, there’s shitty non-boundary schools just like there are shitty boundary schools. That doesn’t lesson the advantage of pulling from open boundaries if a certain school administration wants to win football games.

I’m amazed that the big District 1 school ADs haven’t banded together to squash this ridiculous system.

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How strongly would you feel about it if SJP were not in the picture?

SJP's dominance in the last 11 years--10 appearances in the state final and 8 championships--is partly due to some particular circumstances. The first two years they won the championship, LaSalle was close to them and there were some very close games, e.g. against Parkland and P-R in 2014 and against Neshaminy and Frankford in 2013. Then LaSalle beat them for the league championship in 2015. After that LaSalle weakened quite a bit for reasons I'll leave to someone from LaSalle--it wasn't mainly because of anything SJP was doing. Of course, P-R won easily in 2017 and ML won in 2021. Since the PIAA went to six classifications, can we all agree that there haven't been many strong 6A teams from anywhere in the state? You can say that a school like P-R has one team like the 2017 team every few decades--same for ML in 2021, but in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022 the teams SJP played in the final were nowhere near as good as P-R in 2017 or ML in 2021.

Looking at where things are now, I'd say LaSalle will go into next season as at least co-favorites for the league championship with SJP. Gordon and his staff are excellent, so I'd be very surprised if the next decade is anything like the last. Plus, lots of other things could change. Prep coaches could decide to move on, other schools in the area could step up like LaSalle did this year, etc. It won't be easy but it wasn't easy for SJP to build its program as it did and to sustain it at the level it's been. No argument that not having boundaries is a big advantage, but many other schools have no boundaries. And SJP does have some disadvantages. I'd invite anyone who doubts that to visit SJP and then go to LaSalle, Malvern, Bishop Eustace, Haverford School, etc.

Yes, there’s shitty non-boundary schools just like there are shitty boundary schools. That doesn’t lesson the advantage of pulling from open boundaries if a certain school administration wants to win football games.

I’m amazed that the big District 1 school ADs haven’t banded together to squash this ridiculous system.

tulla said:

Of course, TEP has the whole city of Philadelphia from which it can draw players. Do they sometimes also get players from outside the city limits?

Would the boundaries vs. no boundaries issue be nearly as contested if it weren't for SJP? If people have no great objections to PCC, McDevitt, Scranton Prep, or Bethlehem Catholic playing boundary schools in the playoffs, then it's not really a matter of principle. (I understand some people want all of them out.)

Wanting separate playoff classifications for boundary and non-boundary schools is a reasonable position to take. My points are 1) that it would be a logistical nightmare, especially for many non-boundary schools 2) that the consequences might not be what many imagine they will be, and 3) that the pre-occupation of some to get SJP out--and maybe the other non-boundary schools too--is making it hard for them to see some of the trends and realities that have given rise to the present situation.

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Tale as old as time

tulla said:

Of course, TEP has the whole city of Philadelphia from which it can draw players. Do they sometimes also get players from outside the city limits?

Would the boundaries vs. no boundaries issue be nearly as contested if it weren't for SJP? If people have no great objections to PCC, McDevitt, Scranton Prep, or Bethlehem Catholic playing boundary schools in the playoffs, then it's not really a matter of principle. (I understand some people want all of them out.)

Wanting separate playoff classifications for boundary and non-boundary schools is a reasonable position to take. My points are 1) that it would be a logistical nightmare, especially for many non-boundary schools 2) that the consequences might not be what many imagine they will be, and 3) that the pre-occupation of some to get SJP out--and maybe the other non-boundary schools too--is making it hard for them to see some of the trends and realities that have given rise to the present situation.

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Would be boring to separate boundary and non-boundary and unfulfilling for all. Keep system as is and accept it. SJP is just so far ahead its tough to catch up. Not much any boundary school can do, just have to accept it and put best foot forward. No amount of weight room, extra work will get you there. You have to get special team to compete but even if that happens once out of every 5-10 years makes it that much more special for that team if they can win it all when it does happen.

Fletchster1 said:

Such a shame for the boundary school programs. O’Doyle Rules Football doesn’t do anyone any good.

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Of course, TEP has the whole city of Philadelphia from which it can draw players. Do they sometimes also get players from outside the city limits?

Would the boundaries vs. no boundaries issue be nearly as contested if it weren't for SJP? If people have no great objections to PCC, McDevitt, Scranton Prep, or Bethlehem Catholic playing boundary schools in the playoffs, then it's not really a matter of principle. (I understand some people want all of them out.)

Wanting separate playoff classifications for boundary and non-boundary schools is a reasonable position to take. My points are 1) that it would be a logistical nightmare, especially for many non-boundary schools 2) that the consequences might not be what many imagine they will be, and 3) that the pre-occupation of some to get SJP out--and maybe the other non-boundary schools too--is making it hard for them to see some of the trends and realities that have given rise to the present situation.

Relayer said:

So the worst Prep team in 10 years will only beat Parkland by 5 TD's next week? If the line was Prep -34.5, would anyone on this board take the points?

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Such a shame for the boundary school programs. O’Doyle Rules Football doesn’t do anyone any good.

Not a chance

So the worst Prep team in 10 years will only beat Parkland by 5 TD's next week? If the line was Prep -34.5, would anyone on this board take the points?

scs13 said:

This should be an interesting match-up in no small part due to the unknowns. Admittedly, I have not had the opportunity to watch ‘Tep play this year. I do know that they have a history of fielding teams with several notable D1 prospects. In the past, a lack of discipline, resulting in killer penalties, has been their biggest self-imposed obstacle. I haven’t read about those same issues this year, though. If their strength is their run game, then I’d have to think that Prep’s stout D-line and overall speed on the defense should help limit damage from big plays. If they have speed and talent at all skill positions, then this may pose significant problems. Moreover, if ‘Tep can get pressure and limit time for a young QB, then we’re going to have a ball game. I’m curious to hear from others about this match-up and what you expect to see.

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Prep over Tep 42-0