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2025 wpial discussion

it’s boring in my eyes because when classifications split and 6A shrunk to just a handful of teams, the prestige of winning a WPIAL title in the highest class really took a hit. it's hard to celebrate a championship when you’re playing in essentially a mini-league of five or six teams. It feels more like a round-robin trophy than a real gauntlet. I hate to say that as an NA fan, but no one really care about their wpial title wins, as evident by people on this forum

Back when 4A was the biggest classification, winning the WPIAL was a war. You had legit powerhouses like Woodland Hills, Central Catholic, North Hills, McKeesport, Upper St. Clair, Gateway—20+ top-tier programs competing. That gave WPIAL titles real weight, even without a state championship. So while they won zero state titles, Woody High’s early-2000s run meant something because of the depth of competition. That’s why a lot of people speak fondly of them, even on this website

I believe the only 6A teams that will be remembered are 2017 Pine-Richland and 2021 Mt. Lebanon. They transcended the watered-down format by statistical domination and winning states
ok, I hear ya- but this stuff only really effects 6A. Still pretty impressive to win at 1-5. And, even though there are negatives, there are a lot more teams benefitting from the 6 levels- better chance for winning records, playoffs, which keeps more kids playing football, so that is a positive.

For 6A, the reality is if it was 4 levels, imo, PR and Peters are the only teams that would have given any challenge to PCC and NA in the last 3 years- things would not have been much different- imo, 99% likely NA would have still won in 23 and PCC would have still won in 24. 22, not sure, maybe PR could have wo 6A.

imo- there's a whole lot of things the WPIAL could do to make postseason better- better media coverage, better "free access" to watching on TV or streaming- and how about this- ALL home playoffs games? Except for the final, which would NOT be played at Norwin, which is terrible- maybe Highmark Stadium, or Robert Morris Field

2025 wpial discussion

It’s boring for sure. The only interesting year really was 2021, with lots wpial public schools winning states. 2023 NA vs Central was also entertaining. Other than that, pretty boring. Last year was dreadful. Hopefully the go back to 4 classes

BP or tiger- what in the world do you mean by "boring?"

If you mean it's the "same schools" that's just not true. Seton Lesalle and McKesport have not won a wpial title in 20 years.

And tiger- if we had only 4 classes, there would be LESS variety. Over the last 3 years there have prob been like 20 different schools competing.

There are many things the wpial could do, to make this better / more exciting, but they either don't care, or don't understand what would make it better.

LaSalle vs PCC Week 0?

it's been 5 years, year 6 didn't start yet, though they probably won't win it next year

4 championship appearances in 6 seasons, that is great

what is great to you?
yer funny- splitting hairs, on 5 or 6 years for gateway? The other issue w them, is they have won zero playoff games in the last 4 years.

ok, now Peters- sorry, but champions are not the "second best." Peters is a good program, not great. They a "great year" in 23. Ok, maybe they are a "great South hills team?" But seriously- great programs would be the "best of the best" meaning state champs, or repeat WPIAL winners. Peters is a text-book program, to have benefited from our "watered down" 6 levels- if we had only 4, they might have played 6A for some years, and certainly would have played in less WPIAL finals and maybe not have made it to the state final. And yes (before you even say it!) maybe PR has benefited from the 6 class system- but so too have some others, locally and state-wide.

So now, the "great" programs in the last 10 years, locally? Sure, we could debate this, but I'd say TJ, Aliquippa, CV, PCC, PR, and maybe Clairton. Maybe I could add more to this list? Sure, but then, the more you add the more you water it down.

LaSalle vs PCC Week 0?

uh ok, so it's been 6 years since Gateway played in a championship- not 7.

Yes, agreed the run for Peters has been impressive, good program. Cannot throw out the "great" term often
it's been 5 years, year 6 didn't start yet, though they probably won't win it next year

4 championship appearances in 6 seasons, that is great

what is great to you?

2025 wpial discussion

it's the same teams every year pretty much, any of you ever think this is boring?

1A - Clairton they should've won it last year, they were young which means they should be better
2A Seton Lasalle they have a lot of D1 prospects
3A Central Valley because they are always up there, even last year in a "down year"
4A Mckeesport they have to break through sooner or later, they have Kemon Spell
5A PR because they always reload and their stars are still young
6A Central there is no reason to think otherwise with the talent they have on the lines

Easton and Pennsbury 2026 and 2027

Question from an uneducated Western PA guy- I was looking at the Pennsbury football website- seems to include an impressive history- but I see references to SOL National Championship? What does that mean?
Yes, Pennsbury has had some great teams over the years. Recently they have played in two eastern finals, losing both. In the 2006 east final Pennsbury lost to Bethlehem Liberty 45-38 in 4 OT's. Maybe one of the more underrated playoff games in PIAA history. I was there, it had everything.

In 2014, Pennsbury played SJP in an absolute monsoon at NE HS. The 37-7 final was predictable.

I will always cherish beating Pennsbury in '78 and '79 to win the LBCL championship at Council Rock. Chuck Kane and Walt Snyder had a nice rivalry in the 70's. Two hall of fame coaches.

The 1971 Pennsbury-Neshaminy game is still one the biggest games to be ever played in eastern PA. I was there, 15,000 at Neshaminy. Skins had 5 all-state players, and held on 21-17 to cap an 11-0 season.

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2025 wpial discussion

Thought this would be a good time to start

Central has to be the betting favorite, but Walker Jr. always has a trick up his sleeve, so Il go with them

Pine is the favorite I’d imagine, USC lost a ton. I’m not sure about Peters
good call- yes May seems reasonable- I just looked at this fall's brackets- at this moment, id say

1a- Ft Cherry- cant go against Sieg, he is a stud
2a-Seton LeSalle- seems they are due
3a- Central Valley- again, they are due
4a- TJ- seems they have figured some things out the last few years- great coach still goin strong
5a- PR- Peters and USC i think will not be as strong as 24
6a- PCC- NA close second, and maybe some better competition from Seneca and Lebo

LaSalle vs PCC Week 0?

Gateway won WPIAL 5A in 2019

how is Peters not a great program?

2018 - semifinal loss after having the lead to Penn Hills, which won the state
2019 - close loss to Gateway in WPIAL final
2020 - mercy rule loss to PR in WPIAL title game, I think that PR team is arguably the best WPIAL team of the last 7 years or so
2021 - 2nd round playoff loss to PR
2022 - missed playoffs with only 3 losses, the system has since changed to prevent teams like that from being left out
2023 - WPIAL champ, state runner up
2024 - WPIAL runner u[

on top of that they are now regularly putting kids in D1 schools, Ivy league etc how is this not a great program?

I don't understand you saying Central coaches aren't as good as PR but then you argue Central's coaches develop their kids

of course recruiters go there, they are an all star team
uh ok, so it's been 6 years since Gateway played in a championship- not 7.

Yes, agreed the run for Peters has been impressive, good program. Cannot throw out the "great" term often

LaSalle vs PCC Week 0?

BP- im not gonna debate with you- but it's just not accurate to say the "consistent winning" programs in HS football are "cheating and bending rules" to get transfers. It takes a lot more than just talent. Perfect example- Gateway- they have had great talent, but have not even made it to a championship, for like 7-8 years. And, id have to guess, they probably DO bend some rules.

Peters- the big change has been Plack- he's a very good coach, and has developed them into a good program.- good not great. Lebo has had 3 different coaching staffs in the last 3 years- pretty sure most people would say they have shaky coaching.

And Central- again, I'm not gonna debate you- there is more involved than just "putting the kid on the field." They gotta coach and develop the kids, and college recuiters go there, more than some other school in the area- the kids get better exposure. James Franklin, PSU, says "we need more Pittsburgh Central Kids." Pretty sure PSU has never even VISITED maybe 90% of other high schools in Western PA. AND, how NFL? Right now, I think there are like 3-4 kids actively playing in the NFL. That is not fake, or hype.

And- lasty- the idea of what is "normal" in high school sports- it's just so different- high school sports are "not what they were" 30 years ago- just not even the same as 3 years ago... there is just a "new normal." And it kinda seems to be changing year-to-year.
Gateway won WPIAL 5A in 2019

how is Peters not a great program?

2018 - semifinal loss after having the lead to Penn Hills, which won the state
2019 - close loss to Gateway in WPIAL final
2020 - mercy rule loss to PR in WPIAL title game, I think that PR team is arguably the best WPIAL team of the last 7 years or so
2021 - 2nd round playoff loss to PR
2022 - missed playoffs with only 3 losses, the system has since changed to prevent teams like that from being left out
2023 - WPIAL champ, state runner up
2024 - WPIAL runner u[

on top of that they are now regularly putting kids in D1 schools, Ivy league etc how is this not a great program?

I don't understand you saying Central coaches aren't as good as PR but then you argue Central's coaches develop their kids

of course recruiters go there, they are an all star team

Easton and Pennsbury 2026 and 2027

Just announced today that Easton will renew their rivalry with Pennsbury games with non-conference games in 2026 and 2027. Easton previously played Pennsbury from 2010-2013, and of course both were members of the Big 8 from 1964 to 1975.

Easton continues to add fun, historically meaningful games (cue convo about the 1968 #1 vs #2 game between these programs) to their schedule with the new conference set-up and non-conference flexibility. Would love to see them get Neshaminy back on the docket to to round out those 60s/70s match ups.

Rules for "spring football" in PA

I have seen a few social media folks in the Pittsburgh Area say "we should have spring football" in PA.

I'm wondering what the means? What do other states do? Is PA football really "held back" by rules/restrictions for HS football in the spring?

I understand the value of playing other sports, but so many kids are "only playing football" anyways- I'm wondering if our kids are missing out on development, compared to other states, nationally?

LaSalle vs PCC Week 0?

Reston Lehman has big offers from everywhere across the country, Peters was always below average in football until 2018 now they regularly have prospects including kids that I don't think are good enough for the next level

Central puts more kids in big schools simply because those kids choose to go there, not because Central has some "secret sauce" that turns these kids into prospects

aside from maybe Butler I don't think there is any proof those schools are lacking resources or anything at all, USC and Lebo aren't lacking anything other than just not having the horses on a consistent basis, Woodland Hills lost a ton of enrollment but it probably doesn't help they choose to play up 2 classes

North Hills has been killed by transfers, Gateway used to benefit more than anybody from transfers in the mid to late 2000's

it's normal to have down years, it's not normal to be in the title game every year for a decade+ ie Central, PR etc the teams that don't have down years are bending the rules and getting transfers
BP- im not gonna debate with you- but it's just not accurate to say the "consistent winning" programs in HS football are "cheating and bending rules" to get transfers. It takes a lot more than just talent. Perfect example- Gateway- they have had great talent, but have not even made it to a championship, for like 7-8 years. And, id have to guess, they probably DO bend some rules.

Peters- the big change has been Plack- he's a very good coach, and has developed them into a good program.- good not great. Lebo has had 3 different coaching staffs in the last 3 years- pretty sure most people would say they have shaky coaching.

And Central- again, I'm not gonna debate you- there is more involved than just "putting the kid on the field." They gotta coach and develop the kids, and college recuiters go there, more than some other school in the area- the kids get better exposure. James Franklin, PSU, says "we need more Pittsburgh Central Kids." Pretty sure PSU has never even VISITED maybe 90% of other high schools in Western PA. AND, how NFL? Right now, I think there are like 3-4 kids actively playing in the NFL. That is not fake, or hype.

And- lasty- the idea of what is "normal" in high school sports- it's just so different- high school sports are "not what they were" 30 years ago- just not even the same as 3 years ago... there is just a "new normal." And it kinda seems to be changing year-to-year.

LaSalle vs PCC Week 0?

you are correct, these kids do not "need to go to private schools." But, usually they are better off. My point, is it's a lower risk, It's a lower gamble to go there- they have a much better track record than every local public school- I'm talking about the "best" kids, Power 4. I'm not sure what you mean that the Peter's kid was "recruited more" than the Central kids is just not true. I'm not a Central booster, or alum, i dont "love them" but they put more kids in big schools, it's really no debate.

In many ways, public/local is better, especially for the "average" or even the "good athletes," which is why i am talking about the 1%, the best kids. Private schools have less rules, more flexibility, which makes it easier for college recuiting. It is very diffcult to build and maintain a successful public school football program in western PA- that is why there are so few of them. Butler, Woodland Hills, Gateway, Lebo, North Hills, even USC- these are schools that "used to be great" and really are no longer- this is why they "lose kids" to transferring. This happens due to shaky coaching, or shaky resources, or a combination.

And again, the "payoff" is now real money, as soon as they graduate high school.
Reston Lehman has big offers from everywhere across the country, Peters was always below average in football until 2018 now they regularly have prospects including kids that I don't think are good enough for the next level

Central puts more kids in big schools simply because those kids choose to go there, not because Central has some "secret sauce" that turns these kids into prospects

aside from maybe Butler I don't think there is any proof those schools are lacking resources or anything at all, USC and Lebo aren't lacking anything other than just not having the horses on a consistent basis, Woodland Hills lost a ton of enrollment but it probably doesn't help they choose to play up 2 classes

North Hills has been killed by transfers, Gateway used to benefit more than anybody from transfers in the mid to late 2000's

it's normal to have down years, it's not normal to be in the title game every year for a decade+ ie Central, PR etc the teams that don't have down years are bending the rules and getting transfers
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