My takeaway from the 2022 state championships
- Thread starter northalleghenytiger
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You would rather them play a public school from the area? I disagree. Northeast the last 3 yrs came out of the public league those games were over in the first qtr. I think they stand to lose far more than a game against area public schools. I also think those national games draw recruits to sjp. Like someone mentioned they get kids that want to play at the next level, so playing the national schedule to start allow them measure their team and individual talent.
No the original question was why doesn’t SJP play a team like Pine Richland for an out of league game and I gave my reasoning as that if they were to lose it would hurt them on a national level/ranking and the brand they are trying to grow. The last “local” team they played for an out of conference regular season game was against Malvern back in either 2015/2016 season. Then they started their national schedule……Also i was referring to a public school in general, not Philly Public league.
Do you realize how many years they started out 0-2 or 0-3 … regardless of who you play, a loss is a loss and would have an effect on the “national” rankings … even as an opinion, your position has no basis and it’s proven here … the intent for over 30 years now has been to play teams that are better in the preseason and in some cases much better to prepare for PCL play, this was long before PIAA as well … Prep is recognized nationally because of who they play in those preseason games over time and frankly, their record is likely close to 500 in those games … the formula is quite simple, play better competition to get better, not sure why that model isn’t followed by others.
So in the past 12 years (Infante first year as HC) they have never started 0-2/0-3, you have to go back to 2004 for the last time they even started a season 0-2 and one of those losses was to Central Catholic. That’s as far as Max Preps goes back to.
Again I never said I had a problem with SJP playing a national schedule. Someone asked why they don’t play more local/PA schools out of conference and I gave my opinion.
And on the Prep being nationally recognized, outside of the PA/DE/NJ, I don’t know if they are that well known outside of this area and the North East as we think. We obviously in this area know who they are but I think that goes back them building their brand on a national level and why they don’t play local teams. like there are states like California, Texas, Florida where you could rattle off 5-10 schools with ease just because of how well known they are. I know New is down in NC and I would be interested to see if coaches in his league/area know about SJP.
Roxy is basically right. In 2019 they started out 1-2 with losses to Marietta and IMG surrounding a very close win against St. John's. In 2014 they were 1-3 with losses to St. Ignatius, Bosco, and St. Joseph's Montvale. They also lost big to Bosco in 2015 and 2013. Even this past year they likely would have been underdogs against Buford and, as we know, they lost to STA.
By the way, in Infante's first year (2010) they lost by a lot to both St. Peter's and North Penn at the start of the season and later lost five other games.
They have scrimmaged (controlled) Imhotep the last few years. I think an actual game is more on the Imhotep side and their schedule.
Good point. I think their diverse/challenging schedule apart from toughening you up attracts attention to the school. And that has to be a good thing showing off the team at that level.
Realistically it's then also product. So....show it off if you want buy in.
Schools are not exactly lining up to play the Prep. name a few that want to play them during the year .
If you ask me Harrisburg was Imhotep. Highly athletic and tons of talent in the field. Coaches won that championship game. Of course they have really good athletes but coaching separated the teams. I think that’s what separates them and Imhotep. They would beat them by 3 tds. They would keep it close with their defense but their offense is horrific. We took them to the wire and you see what prep ultimately did to us.
Does St Joe Prep qualify and if so are they permitted to play in the Geico state championship series which is played every year ??.
I had an issue with that bc they I would rather them play games every wk but due to them not finding opponents. They play us right off a bye and coming out firing and well rested.
A - Both boundary schools
AA - Both boundary schools (SC might have found some loophole or there is something in the water...lol)
AAA - NG lost a close one to Belle Vernon
AAAA - BM dominated Aliquippa
AAAAA - Imhotep in the final
AAAAAA - Prep won going away
4/12 or 33% in the six final games. What percentage of PA high schools are non-boundary?
That’s this yr. I’m talking overall. This same sjp convo will start again next yr. Imhotep is the more frequent of the rest outside of 6a and they don’t win it all so ppl don’t bring them up. No one ever said anything bout them being non boundary on here.
I came up with 46 privates in a study I was working on a few mths ago.
D1 2
D2 2
D3 7
D4 0
D5 0
D6 2
D7 11
D8 0
D9 1
D19 3
D11 5
D12 13
If not 2022, what year should we cherry-pick? 2021?
A - Redbank Valley gave Bishop Guilfoyle a decent game (Bishop Canevin lost in semis)
AA - SC rocked Serra Catholic
AAA - Both boundary schools (NG lost in semis)
AAAA - Aliquippa beat BM (Bishop Shanahan lost in semis)
AAAAA - Imhotep lost to Penn-Trafford
AAAAAA - Mt Lebanon handled Prep
5/12 or 42% in the six final games. Based on Stalk's numbers, a little over 8% (46 out of ~560) are privates (assume this means non-boundary).
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Imhotep has won consistently for almost a decade. With a team culture that includes coaches providing "a longer leash" as someone said on another thread, they've reached the state championship seven out of the last ten years. What separates them from the other AA, AAA, AAAA, and AAAAA teams that they've beaten consistently over the past ten years? It's not coaching according to some members of this forum.
A - Redbank Valley gave Bishop Guilfoyle a decent game (Bishop Canevin lost in semis)
AA - SC rocked Serra Catholic
AAA - Both boundary schools (NG lost in semis)
AAAA - Aliquippa beat BM (Bishop Shanahan lost in semis)
AAAAA - Imhotep lost to Penn-Trafford
AAAAAA - Mt Lebanon handled Prep
5/12 or 42% in the six final games. Based on Stalk's numbers, a little over 8% (46 out of ~560) are privates (assume this means non-boundary).
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Imhotep has won consistently for almost a decade. With a team culture that includes coaches providing "a longer leash" as someone said on another thread, they've reached the state championship seven out of the last ten years. What separates them from the other AA, AAA, AAAA, and AAAAA teams that they've beaten consistently over the past ten years? It's not coaching according to some members of this forum.
I think that's the reason the public schools are dead on the eastern part of the state and not out west. Western representatives were public schools in every classifications were out east it was 6A private, 5A charter, 4A private, 3A private, and 2A vo tech. It's the same schools out east every year because of it there hasn't been a relevant public school team out east since 2008 the year the pcl joined the Piaa. You will never have a 99 bucks, 01 neshaminy, or 03 North Penn team again. Were out west we don't have the sjp's or the Imhoteps so we get Pine Richland, aliquippa, Thomas Jefferson, belle Vernon, mount lebos, Farrell, Clariton, and the Steele valleys.
Monesson all star team. Hahahahahhahaha. Oh man that’s rich. Those schools should be combined already. And if they were Belle Vernon would still he in the same classification
Quinton Martin and Devin Whitlock were there entire offense the last two seasons
both from Monessen
I was just helping Fletch with 'privates' (numbers) but you make a good point. The point should be boundary and non-boundary, not privates vs publics.
That must apply to Pittsburgh as well, giving Westinghouse an edge.
Without getting too deep in the weeds, I imagine then the only reason everyone in Reading, York, Lancaster, Erie, etc, etc can't transfer willy-nilly is because it crosses school district lines; differentiating 'school district lines' from 'city lines'?
That's probably a big duhhhh. Just never thought about it.
Yes, it's boundary vs non-boundary. Suiting up 30 stud players is much easier if you're pulling from a larger area and, in turn, a larger population base. It's very similar to college football - there is a reason the top teams don't field teams full of local kids...
I'm only talking the bigger classifications here but I don't ever remember this being a giant debate before the pcl joined the Piaa. What other private schools before 2008 are doing what prep's doing in football or Neumann, Roman, and Imhotep (I know isn't in pcl) in basketball. Outside the pcl there's no private schools just dominating football or basketball. 2008 was the last time a public school program was relevant on the eastern part of the state outside of 2016 North Penn (who lost to prep.)
What votech are you speaking of? The full-time one in Bloomsburg that has a 4A football team?
It's not like belle Vernon is a power house. I believe this is their first wpial title since 1995 and do they have another D1 guy other than martin.
not quite that long ago, and he lives with his uncle
i just looked at their basketball stats from yesterday
19 points from Martin and 18 from Alonzo Wade, both from Monessen
39 points from Zion Moore, from Ringgold
Belle Vernon is dirty
they have been to at least the wpial semifinals every year since 2017, that's pretty close to a powerhouse
well SJP is obvious about it, they keep no secrets everybody knows they have many unfair advantages
i respect a person that stabs me in the front more so than a person that stabs me in the back, if that makes sense
No relevant public school program on the eastern side of the state since 2008? I assume you are referring only to the largest school classification. And even there the PCL champion was not the eastern rep in 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2015. Was Neshaminy not relevant in 2013, Parkland not relevant in 2014, and Coatesville not relevant in 2017? I get your point (that SJP has been the dominant team in that classification since 2013) but saying no public school in the east has been relevant since 2008 is like saying SJP is a "four state" or "three state" all-star team. It feeds into a kind of myth and it gets in the way of a cooler analysis--like the one provided by KMac on the easternpa site--of all the factors at play in hs football in PA
And an aside related to basketball: It's not just NG and Roman in the PCL that have been so good. If you look at the PCL last year--and this year--you'll see more than half a dozen programs (NG, Roman, West Catholic, Wood, Ryan, Devon Prep, LaSalle and--this year--maybe even SJP) that could go all the way or nearly all the way in the state playoffs. Try squaring that with the idea that one super program vacuums up all the talent.
For your sake I hope they remove PCL from PIAA. Then in a year or so you’ll get 2 arguments. “This team could compete with sjp” or “sjp left but they took all the talent with them”. Can’t beat the machine if you don’t play. I’ll rather line up and take my chances.
LOL - “many unfair advantages” …like their fields? … or getting on a bus every day to get out to fields?? …. Or the dingy weight room? … or the inner city location? … or the 3+ hours of homework every night? … or maybe, it has a reputation for pushing students to excel in the classroom and on the field and that has a greater draw than anything above
Those are just the big examples but you're proving my point that the pcl vacuums up the talent. Other then 16 North Penn (who lost to pcl) I didn't believe any of those teams stood a chance against prep and I was right. Next year no one stands a chance against prep. Were out here in western pa we don't have these powerhouse all star teams like they do out east. I actually thought 17 pr and 21 mt Lebo had a chance against the pcl. I wasn't picking Lebo but thought they had a shot and they won. Thier will never be a team out east to beat prep where I give the public schools in the wpial a chance. History has proven that. Even PR and Penn Trafford took down Imhotep where the schools out east get destroyed every year. The talent his more dispersed in western pa where out east it's sucked up by a handful of schools (prep, Imhotep, southern Columbia, ect..) Here's my prediction for the east representatives for next year 6A prep, 5A Imhotep, 4A bishop mckdevitt, 2A southern Columbia. Let's check this next year and see if I'm right. No one can tell me who's resenting the west because the talent is dispersed and it's wide open. We had 6 public in the state title game here on the western part of the state. When was the last time the east had majority of non-boundary schools representing them. I can't recall.
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That's most private schools. They receive all their money through tuition. Unless an aluminum donates a large amount of money for the sports facilities that's how almost all private schools function not just prep.