who do you predict will win state titles in 2022?

HSFB99

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Steel, it’s clear you have the facts and he is throwing out random theories. I think you’ve settled this debate.
 

Hausmann1978

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Ok here you go https://www.post-journal.com/news/l...warren-to-combine-high-school-football-teams/ I thought you said this wasn't allowed and against piaa rules? Youngsville did have a football team and decided to consolidate it with Warren because their numbers were down or is this reporter wrong as well. I know cmv has a team but this is what is happening. You don't have to live in the district to attend a votech school and guess who allows thier students to attend Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School. Bringing in the kids for SC sports. You are proving my point if Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School isn't in the same district as SC how are their students allowed to attend it. I'll tell you how, the votech is no boundaries . Steelcetain55 answer me this is SC students allowed to attend cmv and are they in separate districts?
 
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steelcurtain55.

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Ok here you go https://www.post-journal.com/news/l...warren-to-combine-high-school-football-teams/ I thought you said this wasn't allowed and against piaa rules? Youngsville did have a football team and decided to consolidate it with Warren because their numbers were down or is this reporter wrong as well.

Ok here's the deal, for the 90th time...

Youngsville decided to drop football. They applied for a Co-Op with Warren and it was granted. At no point was Youngsville operating a football team while the Co-Op occurred with Warren.

You don't understand how co-ops work.

I know cmv has a team but this is what is happening. You don't have to live in the district to attend a votech school and guess who allows thier students to attend Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School. Bringing in the kids for SC sports. You are proving my point if Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School isn't in the same district as SC how are their students allowed to attend it. I'll tell you how, you don't have to live in the district to attend the votech. Steelcetain55 answer me this are SC students allowed to attend cmv?

Okay. Let me explain this for 99th time..

CMVT is a FULL TIME INDEPENDENT VOCATIONAL SCHOOL where students graduate with a diploma AND often a certificate. They are funded by 7 school districts in Columbia/Montour Counties.

If a student is granted admission from one of the sponsoring districts CMVT has the CO-OP to allow those full time students to play sports for THEM and THEM ONLY. Those students who attend cannot and have never played for their home districts much less Southern freaking Columbia.

Southern Columbia students attend CMVT and some play football for CMVT. But, none of them have played for Southern Columbia while attending CMTV. This is completely against the PIAA rules.

For you to believe that kids from Berwick or Danville go to CMVT and play football for Southern is completely ridiculous.

I've coached HS ball for 20 years in PA. I've coached and worked at both full-time and part-time vocational schools in the commonwealth. I know how this works.
 

steelcurtain55.

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Hausmann1978, you would be so disappointed if you ever walked the halls at Southern Middle School. Along their walls where they show the team picture for all of the undefeated junior high seasons, you'll see 99% of those same faces on the roster of the high school program.
 

steelcurtain55.

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May 6, 2017
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Steel, it’s clear you have the facts and he is throwing out random theories. I think you’ve settled this debate.
He's one of many who've been spouting this theory. The first I heard of it is when Hynoski's crew completely embarrassed Elijah Fields and his Duquesne squad. It's just the West crying about Southern's dominance. They always look for an out to explain why Southern has been as consistently good as they have been. No one was crying when Southern couldn't beat Rochester.

Southern is the best program in PA because of commitment, talent, and continuous coaching.
 

Hausmann1978

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He's one of many who've been spouting this theory. The first I heard of it is when Hynoski's crew completely embarrassed Elijah Fields and his Duquesne squad. It's just the West crying about Southern's dominance. They always look for an out to explain why Southern has been as consistently good as they have been. No one was crying when Southern couldn't beat Rochester.

Southern is the best program in PA because of commitment, talent, and continuous coaching.
You didn't answer my question. Am I correct that SC and Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School are in separate districts and SC students can attend Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical school? You know what that means no boundaries. It's funny how all these journalists are misinformed. For the 90th time since SC students can go to southern Columbia and attend Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School they are able to bring students in from other districts because they are attending the votech and still play for SC.
 
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steelcurtain55.

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You didn't answer my question. Am I correct that SC and Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School are in separate districts and SC students can attend Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical school? You know what that means no boundaries.

Yes they are in separate school districts. Just like how York Tech is in the Dallastown Area School District but is funded by all of the York County School Districts. If you attend York Tech, you cannot play for Dallastown if you live in Dallastown nor can you play Dallastown if you live in York City, Shrewsbury, Red Lion, Spring Grove, Hanover, etc... Why? Because York Tech is a full time school with it's own sports teams.

It's funny how all these journalists are misinformed.
They are.
For the 90th time since SC students can go to southern Columbia and attend Columbia-Montour Area Vocational-Technical School they are able to bring students in from other districts because they are attending the votech and still play for SC.
^^^Explain this because this is a massive run-on sentence..

***You're saying that SC students can go to Southern Columbia and CMVT simultaneously - like half day at SC and half day at CMVT?

If you are suggesting that - you are incorrect. CMVT is a full-time school not a part-time vocational center like you find in 99% of the state centers. CMVT kids have a normal school schedule with all of the core courses and then they have their trades.

****Are you saying that some kid from Berwick can enroll at the Tech and somehow play sports at SC?

If you are suggesting this, you seriously confused how this process works. And, it's utterly false.

I showed you that you didn't know what you were talking about between Warren and Youngsville. You said "Youngsville allowed kids to play football at Warren and consolidate." Well, they never "consolidated" but they did sign an agreement allowing Warren to have the co-op with Youngsville. Read that again - WARREN was granted the CO-OP. They were granted the CO-OP because Youngsville no longer sponsored high school football. That is not a consolidation. A consolidation is when 2+ schools merger to form 1 school such as

***Show me where Southern Columbia has been granted a CO-OP with any school in football or wrestling. You won't find it because all of those 7 schools sponsors it's own football. And, in order for CMVT to have the CO-OP they must sponsor football in which they do.

At this point, you have to be trolling.
 

steelcurtain55.

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May 6, 2017
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https://tribhssn.triblive.com/piaa-...ated-enrollment-numbers-to-fix-vo-tech-issue/

"Only 10% of students attending an alternative education option such as a vocational-technical school, cyber charter school or home school are counted toward a school’s total. Those students are typically eligible to play athletics at their home district, assuming the alternate school doesn’t offer athletics."

GUESS WHAT "ALTERNATE SCHOOL" OFFERS FOOTBALL IN COLUMBIA-MONTOUR COUNTIES?????????

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Stalker

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So anyway Haus and Steel, who do you think will win state titles? Some levity to start the week!
 

Hausmann1978

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So anyway Haus and Steel, who do you think will win state titles? Some levity to start the week!
With that being said stalk I do think southern Columbia wins it all. I hope my prep ramblers brings home gold but I think 5A is the most competitive and they will have a tough road.
 
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steelcurtain55.

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So anyway Haus and Steel, who do you think will win state titles? Some levity to start the week!
Barring injuries -

I like these teams

1A - Steel High
2A - SC
3A - not sure, but I'm interested to see what BVA looks like.
4A - Quip
5A - not sure
6A - St Joe
 
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Stalker

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Haus I think 4A looks vicious! with the western mob, Quips, TJ, BVA, McKees and since I've been off on another aside with some civil war research I'm not as informed. But SCA and Erie Prep are always in the mix. Checking to see if BP is awake.
Steel, I like your list and candor. Who the hell knows.

6A; SJP-LaSalle, Harrisburg.
5A; Imhotep but had some serious losses. Unsure.
4A; As above (top) plus McDevitt for sure. Qb is awesome. We'll see after Imhotep, LaSalle games. If all is well with the lines, and it seems to be, this will be one of their strongest teams in years.
3A; Central Valley, Neumann G.
2A; Not as sold as you guys on SCA, haven't done Sto-Rox/Farrell homework or classifications check.
Remember Bishop Guilfoyle is 2A now with a returning, talented Qb and they always come to play.
1A; This is a hard one to not knee jerk Steelton going to JUCO with those guys. But we'll know after the opener with them and Bishop Canevin, another strong favorite, facing off in the opener in Chambersburg. Canevin is LOADED with athletes.
 

BradlyPitt

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Jan 26, 2022
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Barring injuries -

I like these teams

1A - Steel High
2A - SC
3A - not sure, but I'm interested to see what BVA looks like.
4A - Quip
5A - not sure
6A - St Joe
I think BVA will have an easy road through the WPIAL, they return Quinton Martin who is only a junior along with other kids that are a part of the Monessen All Star Team

they won't be as good as last year when they were number 1 in the state in 4A, and beat the 5A state champ by 20 points, but they are heavy favorites

also Central Valley and North Catholic were the two WPIAL finalists last year, they both moved up to 4A so I would be shocked if they don't at least win the WPIAL
 

BradlyPitt

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Haus I think 4A looks vicious! with the western mob, Quips, TJ, BVA, McKees and since I've been off on another aside with some civil war research I'm not as informed. But SCA and Erie Prep are always in the mix. Checking to see if BP is awake.
Steel, I like your list and candor. Who the hell knows.

6A; SJP-LaSalle, Harrisburg.
5A; Imhotep but had some serious losses. Unsure.
4A; As above (top) plus McDevitt for sure. Qb is awesome. We'll see after Imhotep, LaSalle games. If all is well with the lines, and it seems to be, this will be one of their strongest teams in years.
3A; Central Valley, Neumann G.
2A; Not as sold as you guys on SCA, haven't done Sto-Rox/Farrell homework or classifications check.
Remember Bishop Guilfoyle is 2A now with a returning, talented Qb and they always come to play.
1A; This is a hard one to not knee jerk Steelton going to JUCO with those guys. But we'll know after the opener with them and Bishop Canevin, another strong favorite, facing off in the opener in Chambersburg. Canevin is LOADED with athletes.
Central Valley moved up to 4A
 
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lilromeo

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6A st Joe prep,5A Imhotep 3A Wyomissing. I agree with your other picks
The Prep will only improve over a good outing vs. St Thomas. Were only behind by 4 and lost a lateral on the last play for a St Thomas TD-a fluke .
 

2020sports

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6A: SJP over PCC
5A: ECP over Imhotep
4A: McKeesport over ?
mckeesport? wow, not sure if i am missing s/t but i cant bet again Quips AND CV

wow- so, with a disclaimer i have not researched everyone state-wide, after week 1, i will go-

1-Bishop canevin over bishop g
2- SC over beaver falls
3- wyomissing over belle vernon
4- Central Valley over bishop mcdevitt
5- Gateway over Immotep
6- SJP over Senecca Valley
 

2020sports

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mckeesport? wow, not sure if i am missing s/t but i cant bet again Quips AND CV

wow- so, with a disclaimer i have not researched everyone state-wide, after week 1, i will go-

1-Bishop canevin over bishop g
2- SC over beaver falls
3- wyomissing over belle vernon
4- Central Valley over bishop mcdevitt
5- Gateway over Immotep
6- SJP over Senecca Valley
shoot, sorry i intended 4A- Quips over bishop mcdevitt- crazy tho CV and Quippa might be the two of the best teams in 4, in same conference!
 

Stalker

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Don't know how I missed Wyomissing at 3A then put them in the D3 Top 10. Sorry. Also, that Central team from Martinsburg is special.

Saw Imhotep vs McDevitt and don't think anyone will beat them, maybe St. Joe's/Harrisburg if they played and they're just warming up with a young group offensively. McDevitt wasn't chump change so don't let the 4A classification fool you. They'll be in the 4A final. Will say ICS has more D1 players and still have extreme depth despite serious grad losses that side. When the other guys plays situational defense........!!!!
 
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LenEshmont

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I just saw this thread come up asking why is Southern Columbia so dominant and the vo-tech, transfers etc. I can offer my opinion as someone who grew up in the area and follows the local team/rival. Southern was a losing program and ready to drop its football program until Jim Roth Took over in the early 80s. He turned their program around and into a consistent winner where they were getting to the state finals and mostly finishing as runner up in the mid-90s and early 00s. In the coal region people have been leaving Mt. Carmel and Shamokin for decades for a better life (myself included). Many of the harder working/motivated (and athletic) families who wanted to stay in the region but own a nicer house with a little bit of land, moved to Elysburg (Southern Columbia district). So while Southern Columbia has been a solid team since the 80s, the influx of these types of families from other coal region areas like Mt Carmel and Shamokin really put them over the top. Some Southern Columbia natives/fans do not want to admit this but I think it is the obvious reason their program is at the level it is. If this wasn't the case, they would still be Class A. I could go down the names of their roster the past 10-15 years and name kids whos parents were stars at MCA or Shamokin. Hynoski's dad played for MCA and the Cleveland Browns. The Garcia's dad was a 3x state champ wrestler for Mt. Carmel and was the MCA head wrestling coach in the mid 00's. If you grew up in the area, you would notice many more on their roster. Obviously moving to a new area is not illegal, its just a fact of life.

So you have a great coaching staff who have the kids running the same system since midget football. Then you have the kids committed to a year round weight training program. Then you have all the transplants from the previous generation that put them over the top. I do question how a few all state caliber transfers from other neighboring school districts like Bloomsburg and Lewisburg (and one recently from Notre Dame Green Pond) managed to end up playing for Southern, but I think that's icing on the cake. I don't think they recruit, but if one of the parents gets a job at Geisinger in Danville and the kid plays football, you know where they are going. Anyway, there is your recipe for being unstoppable in AA. I really don't think it has anything to do with the Vo-Tech or anything illegal. Mt. Carmel heard the same thing back in the day about redshirting.
 

2020sports

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I just saw this thread come up asking why is Southern Columbia so dominant and the vo-tech, transfers etc. I can offer my opinion as someone who grew up in the area and follows the local team/rival. Southern was a losing program and ready to drop its football program until Jim Roth Took over in the early 80s. He turned their program around and into a consistent winner where they were getting to the state finals and mostly finishing as runner up in the mid-90s and early 00s. In the coal region people have been leaving Mt. Carmel and Shamokin for decades for a better life (myself included). Many of the harder working/motivated (and athletic) families who wanted to stay in the region but own a nicer house with a little bit of land, moved to Elysburg (Southern Columbia district). So while Southern Columbia has been a solid team since the 80s, the influx of these types of families from other coal region areas like Mt Carmel and Shamokin really put them over the top. Some Southern Columbia natives/fans do not want to admit this but I think it is the obvious reason their program is at the level it is. If this wasn't the case, they would still be Class A. I could go down the names of their roster the past 10-15 years and name kids whos parents were stars at MCA or Shamokin. Hynoski's dad played for MCA and the Cleveland Browns. The Garcia's dad was a 3x state champ wrestler for Mt. Carmel and was the MCA head wrestling coach in the mid 00's. If you grew up in the area, you would notice many more on their roster. Obviously moving to a new area is not illegal, its just a fact of life.

So you have a great coaching staff who have the kids running the same system since midget football. Then you have the kids committed to a year round weight training program. Then you have all the transplants from the previous generation that put them over the top. I do question how a few all state caliber transfers from other neighboring school districts like Bloomsburg and Lewisburg (and one recently from Notre Dame Green Pond) managed to end up playing for Southern, but I think that's icing on the cake. I don't think they recruit, but if one of the parents gets a job at Geisinger in Danville and the kid plays football, you know where they are going. Anyway, there is your recipe for being unstoppable in AA. I really don't think it has anything to do with the Vo-Tech or anything illegal. Mt. Carmel heard the same thing back in the day about redshirting.
Gotcha- makes total sense- but / and without trying to re-start that vo-tech debate- how COULD that have any effect on transfers? It just does not make any sense- can you give me a possible scenario, how vo-tech enrollment could have an impact on playing football SC from a a different district?
 

LenEshmont

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Gotcha- makes total sense- but / and without trying to re-start that vo-tech debate- how COULD that have any effect on transfers? It just does not make any sense- can you give me a possible scenario, how vo-tech enrollment could have an impact on playing football SC from a a different district?
I'd probably just refer to steelcurtain55's posts above. What he said makes sense to me and it seems like he knows more about it. CMVT has their own football program, so I can't see it being allowed to play for another school. To my understanding, If you're from Southern Columbia but go to school at vo-tech, you can play football at vo-tech, not the other way around. You can't just enroll at Vo-tech and play football at Southern because they have their own program.
 

Hausmann1978

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May 5, 2021
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I just saw this thread come up asking why is Southern Columbia so dominant and the vo-tech, transfers etc. I can offer my opinion as someone who grew up in the area and follows the local team/rival. Southern was a losing program and ready to drop its football program until Jim Roth Took over in the early 80s. He turned their program around and into a consistent winner where they were getting to the state finals and mostly finishing as runner up in the mid-90s and early 00s. In the coal region people have been leaving Mt. Carmel and Shamokin for decades for a better life (myself included). Many of the harder working/motivated (and athletic) families who wanted to stay in the region but own a nicer house with a little bit of land, moved to Elysburg (Southern Columbia district). So while Southern Columbia has been a solid team since the 80s, the influx of these types of families from other coal region areas like Mt Carmel and Shamokin really put them over the top. Some Southern Columbia natives/fans do not want to admit this but I think it is the obvious reason their program is at the level it is. If this wasn't the case, they would still be Class A. I could go down the names of their roster the past 10-15 years and name kids whos parents were stars at MCA or Shamokin. Hynoski's dad played for MCA and the Cleveland Browns. The Garcia's dad was a 3x state champ wrestler for Mt. Carmel and was the MCA head wrestling coach in the mid 00's. If you grew up in the area, you would notice many more on their roster. Obviously moving to a new area is not illegal, its just a fact of life.

So you have a great coaching staff who have the kids running the same system since midget football. Then you have the kids committed to a year round weight training program. Then you have all the transplants from the previous generation that put them over the top. I do question how a few all state caliber transfers from other neighboring school districts like Bloomsburg and Lewisburg (and one recently from Notre Dame Green Pond) managed to end up playing for Southern, but I think that's icing on the cake. I don't think they recruit, but if one of the parents gets a job at Geisinger in Danville and the kid plays football, you know where they are going. Anyway, there is your recipe for being unstoppable in AA. I really don't think it has anything to do with the Vo-Tech or anything illegal. Mt. Carmel heard the same thing back in the day about redshirting.
If there was a giant influx of these families wouldn't the enrollment go up at the school as well with these kids pouring in. They've remained in double A for some time. I've read and heard kids can travel from outside the school district to attend the school because of the votech making sc basically a private school.
 

LenEshmont

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Sep 11, 2022
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If there was a giant influx of these families wouldn't the enrollment go up at the school as well with these kids pouring in. They've remained in double A for some time. I've read and heard kids can travel from outside the school district to attend the school because of the votech making sc basically a private school.
if you go back to the 80s/90s, the enrollment has gone up since then. I don't have enrollment numbers but they were in class Single A forever until around 2015. I don't think it has been a giant influx of people, It's just that people that stay in the region but want to get out of run down coal region towns like Mt Carmel and Shamokin move to that area. And in general, these are the more motivated, harder working families. I know because I or my siblings went to HS at Mt Carmel with many of the parents or played against their parents at Shamokin. Like I said, there have been a few kids show up to play football there that made me scratch my head like where did they come from, but they are definitely not a private school. They have just been getting most of the good athletes in the area. Combine this with the program they already had and it's tough to beat. MCA fans are more tired than anyone after losing to them in the district championship for the last 6 years but honestly can't accuse them of doing anything illegal.
 

steelcurtain55.

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I see, I just don't think this is accurate. There has been rumors about stuff like this going around for decades. I think their success in recent years has brought a lot of scrutiny to their program and if there was any merit to it, people would know.
It's not an accurate article. The author does not know what he's talking about.