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St. Joseph's Prep 2020 vs. _________

BradleyPitt: PR team rankings

1. 2017 Jurkovec, Kristofic, Katic, King
2. 2020 Jackson, Hayes, Miller, Hasley, Jochem
3. 2014 DiNucci
what makes 2020 better than 2014?

I think they had a little more than just Dinucci, but him alone is a lot he's one of the better high school quarterbacks we've seen

there's no doubt in my mind 2014 had a much tougher schedule, 2020 PR had an easy schedule and should've lost to Governor Mifflin
 
i think Gateway was leading in that game before King went out, he was having his way with them

I know Central won the rematch easily, my point is if they lost that week 1 game they probably would've been eliminated from the "best ever" conversation, they had several close games during the regular season

I could've sworn St Joes in 2017 had a lot of freshman and sophomores playing just like they did this past season
Here’s my recap of that PCC season - State Champs Project: 2004 Pittsburgh Central Catholic

I think the things going in their favor are - 1) they hammered St. Joe’s Prep in the kickoff classic thing in week two; 2) the WPIAL was really good, it had four of the top 5 teams in the state at the end of the regular season and PCC beat all of them - Gateway twice, the Barry Church Penn Hills team and the Sean Lee Upper St. Clair team. 3) the playoff run was so dominant, particularly what they did to LeSean McCoy in semis. 4) they don’t have a standout guy, but the overwhelming number of Division I guys on the roster is enviable. The defense had Penn State, Northwestern, Pitt, Pitt, Cornell, Bucknell, Georgetown, Duquesne, plus some D2 guys, most of whom were really good college players too.
 
2020 > 2014

1. 2020 Offense was much more developed.
2. More FBS players - DiNucci was only FBS player in that team.
3. Defense was significantly better with Coach K running it.

And don’t forget that while Spencer didn’t have the physical attributes to play at the highest level in college, his production was close to our equaled DiNucci’s in most categories.

DiNucci played out of his mind in the 2014 championship game though.
 
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2020 > 2014

1. 2020 Offense was much more developed.
2. More FBS players - DiNucci was only FBS player in that team.
3. Defense was significantly better with Coach K running it.

And don’t forget that while Spencer didn’t have the physical attributes to play at the highest level in college, his production was close to our equaled DiNucci’s in most categories.

DiNucci played out of his mind in the 2014 championship game though.
I know it's tempting when comparing HS players and teams to point to how many players played in college, which colleges they played for, and how good they were in college, but it often just muddies the waters. I can think of many kids who were really good, even great HS players (Loughery at LaSalle in 2009, Fisher at Roman in 2007, Tracz at SJP earlier that decade) but who never did anything in college football because they were the wrong size or got a career-ending injury or even played their "other" sport in college
 
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2020 > 2014

1. 2020 Offense was much more developed.
2. More FBS players - DiNucci was only FBS player in that team.
3. Defense was significantly better with Coach K running it.

And don’t forget that while Spencer didn’t have the physical attributes to play at the highest level in college, his production was close to our equaled DiNucci’s in most categories.

DiNucci played out of his mind in the 2014 championship game though.
i just go by the eye test and competition

2020 PR played easily the weakest ECP team in the final that only made the final due to covid, they needed a miracle to beat Governor Mifflin a team that failed to win the state title this year when they were supposed to be better than last year

2014 PR beat Central twice, they were the defending state runner up and the state champ the next year, those teams alone had far more talent than 2020 PR let alone any team 2020 PR faced

i mean if Damar Hamlin and Brycen Garner couldn't cover 2014 PR receivers, who on 2020 PR is covering them?

and then they gave the defending champs St. Joes all that they could handle, would anybody remember 2020 PR if they lost to Governor Mifflin? they almost got mercy ruled by them
 
I think the difference is what the front 7 could do once Coach K took over (if they played each other)

But DiNucci is the wildcard for sure. My bet is that front 7 would have made his life miserable. But that’s just my opinion.

Central is an interesting comparison with Hamlin and Garner. Recall that Central is 2014 was literally in its first game playing a 2 high defense to stop PR spread - compared to the last 15 years playing 4-4 C3. In the championship, they tried playing man and did much better.

I think we just have different thoughts on GM game. Not great job by defense but they did have horrible field position several tkmes But P-R did score every time they had the ball that the didn’t turn it over I think. 4 turnovers certainly made it difficult, but there is a lot to be said for coming back from 21/22/3 down.

You are correct that they didn’t play a tough schedule as the 2014 team. Covid cancelled games against NJ state runner up from year before, Central, Seneca Valley, and Gateway - and NA begged off after originally being on their schedule.
 
Just saw this thread so I don’t have to make a new post. I believe 2020 and 2022 SJP are the two greatest team pa has ever had. Can someone do a comparison on the two?
 
Just saw this thread so I don’t have to make a new post. I believe 2020 and 2022 SJP are the two greatest team pa has ever had. Can someone do a comparison on the two?
NA. Any and all the information you might want to do a "comparison on the two" is online or likely at this location in other similar 'SJP related' posts.
**** And it looks like NA will be strong again this year battling Pitt CC for 6A Wpial supremacy.
 
NA. Any and all the information you might want to do a "comparison on the two" is online or likely at this location in other similar 'SJP related' posts.
**** And it looks like NA will be strong again this year battling Pitt CC for 6A Wpial supremacy.
Yes I’d say a wpial championship rematch is in order. Although all pressure is on PCC this year
 
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Lost me on that one NA, unless you mean "pressure" per game at NA, a huge advantage, but not if PCC is the better team!
I think you’d have to consider PCC to be the favorite. They return the 2nd leading passer in all of WPIAL. They also have two WR who have D1 offers. Add in arguably the best MLB in the WPIAL. I think they have a few linemen returning as well.

Plus you gotta figure in the “revenge factor” they lost the last 2 WPIAL championships. That’s why I think the pressure should be on them.
 
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I think you’d have to consider PCC to be the favorite. They return the 2nd leading passer in all of WPIAL. They also have two WR who have D1 offers. Add in arguably the best MLB in the WPIAL. I think they have a few linemen returning as well.

Plus you gotta figure in the “revenge factor” they lost the last 2 WPIAL championships. That’s why I think the pressure should be on them.
i might be over-estimating the new coaching- but wow, PCC is loaded- imo, the only pressure that PCC is gonna feel, is maybe in the semis of the state playoffs. They might roll over any wpial team they play- might have best talent in 5-6 years. And, again, sorry tiger, but "winning the wpial" in 6A is just about meaning less- best of 5 is not an accomplishment. PCC needs to dominate everyone for it to be impressive.
 
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i might be over-estimating the new coaching- but wow, PCC is loaded- imo, the only pressure that PCC is gonna feel, is maybe in the semis of the state playoffs. They might roll over any wpial team they play- might have best talent in 5-6 years. And, again, sorry tiger, but "winning the wpial" in 6A is just about meaning less- best of 5 is not an accomplishment. PCC needs to dominate everyone for it to be impressive.
I agree with most everything you said, but PCC winning the WPIAL is their ceiling. They have no chance at winning state. There’s more of a chance of me flying to the moon than than anyone beating St. Joes. They have to find meaning in winning WPIAL
 
I agree with most everything you said, but PCC winning the WPIAL is their ceiling. They have no chance at winning state. There’s more of a chance of me flying to the moon than than anyone beating St. Joes. They have to find meaning in winning WPIAL
by "dominate everyone" i meant everyone in wpial

Yea, maybe only they make it to the final- i have not studied SJP but agreed it seems unlikely they could challenge them

will be interesting- i think their staff knows how to coach and succeed in state playoffs- and again, there are 2-3 guys now on the PCC staff that coached against and beat SJP
 
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I agree with most everything you said, but PCC winning the WPIAL is their ceiling. They have no chance at winning state. There’s more of a chance of me flying to the moon than than anyone beating St. Joes. They have to find meaning in winning WPIAL
Except they have won 4 state titles since the playoff era and historical the wpial winner has been the one to beat prep. I don't know how you can make that statement.
 
Except they have won 4 state titles since the playoff era and historical the wpial winner has been the one to beat prep. I don't know how you can make that statement.
Sjp has won *7* state championships since 2013. Weren’t you the one arguing vehemently about how unfair SJP was? We both know they are head and shoulders above every PA team at this point. 2024 might be an opening to beat SJP
 
Stop. St. Joes is gonna double up on PCC in state championships this upcoming season. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am
tiger, i dont know what you mean by stop- its just too early to make any "definite predictions" but PCC has a chance to go far, just not sure how far, and the "program" has a history of championships, and has even played against SJP, i think that is Haus's point
 
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tiger, i dont know what you mean by stop- its just too early to make any "definite predictions" but PCC has a chance to go far, just not sure how far, and the "program" has a history of championships, and has even played against SJP, i think that is Haus's point
yes PCC and SJP have played in two championships. But, SJP has won by an average of 30 points. PCC is a great program, but SJP is on a different “level”.

You’re right though. It’s still early. We’ll see what happens
 
This is a great SJP team but also the best PCC team in quite a while. Loaded at skill and solid at OL with one of the best OL coaches in the state.
 
This is a great SJP team but also the best PCC team in quite a while. Loaded at skill and solid at OL with one of the best OL coaches in the state.
There is so much that can happen between now and December--most obviously injuries whether to a couple of key players or to a several starters who may not be "stars" but who make a big difference on either the offensive or the defensive line. Just as important, each year's teams have their own character and the course of a season can change based on games earlier in the season. I remember how the 2015 SJP team never quite settled--looking great against St. Joe's Montvale and St.Ignatius but not very good at all against Bosco and Malvern. They lost to LaSalle in the PCL championship.

This past year a case could be made that coming back against St. Thomas Aquinas when they looked on the verge of being blown out--even though SJP was without Trotter and Agard--colored the whole rest of the season for them. Next season they play IMG (which just picked up an "all star" from Alabama (https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.co...ing-alabama-high-school-football/70065306007/) and another from Arizona (https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...erring-to-img-academy-in-florida/70013027007/) on ESPN in late August. There are risks in all this.
 
yes PCC and SJP have played in two championships. But, SJP has won by an average of 30 points. PCC is a great program, but SJP is on a different “level”.

You’re right though. It’s still early. We’ll see what happens
I do think prep has an advantage with their location and playing a national schedule with games on ESPN. It'll draw in the talent but what does that have to do with crowning them state champs already. You're making this arguments before a single game has been played and those games pcc played against prep were over 7 years ago. Not a single player on those teams will be playing this season. Pcc is loaded this year with a new coaching staff. It's to early to even be making those statements.
 
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On paper PCC looks like the fav in the West. But coaching is a wildcard (chemistry) and as tulla reminds....injuries.
Odd as it sounds, I've looked at D3 less than any district with the '2022 review' just completed but it looks like a down year. McDowell is rebuilding and State College has big losses but always good personnel and that hot shot freshman running back plus a co-starter at Qb.
What's exciting to me every year is how the underclassmen and new starters will work out. That, none of us know.
 
The thing about SJP that we don’t mention as much on here is the coaching.

There was all kinds of discussion a few years ago about some team out East (GV maybe??) and that they would give SJP a game. They got smoked IIRC. Went and looked at them and they ran some oddball O and D that works when you have more talent, but not so much when talent is equalized. SJP has a modern scheme and are coached excellently in technique.

I’m off topic. Anyway, the SJP staff since Infante and through now with Roken is excellent. Best in state now.
 
I meant all classes but I don’t follow the lower classes very much.
 
Except they have won 4 state titles since the playoff era and historical the wpial winner has been the one to beat prep. I don't know how you can make that statement.
you said more than once last year that you think SJP could be the best team in the country next season

so why would you think Central which couldn't win a weak WPIAL last season and with a new unproven coach could beat them?

WPIAL teams that beat SJP were lucky to play very young SJP teams, this SJP team will be seasoned vets to say the least
 
you said more than once last year that you think SJP could be the best team in the country next season

so why would you think Central which couldn't win a weak WPIAL last season and with a new unproven coach could beat them?

WPIAL teams that beat SJP were lucky to play very young SJP teams, this SJP team will be seasoned vets to say the least
Yes, SJP has a lot of talented players returning, but it's worth noting that four of the six starters on the O-Line are graduating as are Trotter, Nilles, DuMond, and Bachman among the defensive starters. The new O-Line will have a big test against IMG in late August.
 
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Yes, SJP has a lot of talented players returning, but it's worth noting that four of the six starters on the O-Line are graduating as are Trotter, Nilles, DuMond, and Bachman among the defensive starters. The new O-Line will have a big test against IMG in late August.
they will lose to IMG, that team would beat some small college teams

SJP will destroy every other PA team, it won't be close
 
I'm on the Sammy train - this is America! Go where you want (figure it out and make it work).

Some schools will will see their programs fail to survive and others will thrive.

Change is the only constant.

Was it just 25 and 30 years ago that any number of PA teams were dominating the national scene (in terms of "rankings")?

Now it's just one school that makes noise.

One generation or so and it slipped away.

WTF!?!?!
 
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I'm on the Sammy train - this is America! Go where you want (figure it out and make it work).

Some schools will will see their programs fail to survive and others will thrive.

Change is the only constant.

Was it just 25 and 30 years ago that any number of PA teams were dominating the national scene (in terms of "rankings")?

Now it's just one school that makes noise.

One generation or so and it slipped away.

WTF!?!?!
wow- all this sounds good- but, imo, just NOT gonna happen in PA, for at least 4 reasons...
1) too much "status quo" not enough folks in Pa want "big changes"
2) too much "small town mentality" in PA- most local decision makers want their local power, and would rather "keep their local tradition" than change the rules to allow more opportunities and more flexibility for kids
3) not enough priority or resources for sports to make PA programs "nationally known" as most HS coaches are "part-time jobs" making 8-10 thousand on top of their other job
4) stagnant/not growing population in PA over the last 30 years- and during that time, kids, and football, are often instead moving toward "newer sports" like hockey and lacrosse

And you say- "just one school that makes noise" I assume you mean SJP? Well, 3 years ago there were 2 "nationally known" programs- but a local school "ripped apart" one of those- Pine-Richland- mainly, b/c the coaches and program "cared too much about winning." Seriously- true- that was one of their "official reasons" for firing Coach Kasper. Pretty much everything else was crap, BS, small problems- but the local decision makers did not like how much power and influence the football coaches had at PR- so they FIRED THE WHOLE STAFF!!!! Yes, PR did well this year- but the vision has changed
 
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2020 -

You make very valid points.

My broad sweep "Sammy" approach will stall and/or be stillborn for any number of reasons - if it ever even got any traction (so I'm just wishing out loud, I suppose).

And you're right that I was referencing St. Joe's. Yes - there are other schools making noise now and then but it's sorta like "whack-a-mole" as they seem to pop up and then disappear with only the Hawks consistent over the last decade plus. Let's face it, a year that St. Joe's doesn't win is the outlier rather than the year they do plus how many times over the last decade have they not been in the final game - not very often (heck, in 2005 when the 'Skins were picked as a state pre-season number one favorite - after making it to the Final in 2004 and getting smacked by that monster PCC team - they opened with St. Joe's and lost 28-14 before ripping off the next 11 or so and the wild 45-38 loss to D-Town and Devlin in the playoffs).

I grew up in the '60s and early '70s. I miss those days when the publics were making plenty of noise across the state and country (the Big 33 was PA vs. Texas in the beginning - or was it the USA that first year).

I'm rambling but the point is it would be nice to see a bit more of a level playing field at 6A. And while I'm at it - we don't need six classifications.
 
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Come on guys there is one team in PA right now and it's St Joes Prep. Is is because they can recruit? Yes. Is it because they make football a priority ? yes. IS it because they have tradition? Is it because they have good coaching? Yes. Its all of these things. If a team beats them it was because it was an act of God or they were young. If you allowed "Choice" transfer that would get other schools on the same level as St. Joes. In the WPIAL, could you imagine what North Allegheny could be if they could get kids from Penn Hills or Woodland Hills. What could Pine Richland Be if they could get kids from Gateway ect ect. Imagine that in Distric 3 or District 10, or even better if someone shook up Bucks County with that mindset. Give me and my staff a Job in that county and we would find a way to get kids at that school and within 2 years we would be rolling. If you did that in PA you Now have 6-10 teams on the level of St. Joes Prep. I say let it rip
 
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