The conversation has to be had - is this years St. Joseph's Prep team the best state champ we've had? I've long been a proponent of the 2004 Pittsburgh Central Catholic team being the best Big School (4A until 2015, 6A since) champ in the 32 years of state playoffs. I still think their playoff run is the best, but that's a function of their competition as much as anything. So, as a thought/quarantine experiment, I wanted to spark discussion about this year's Prep team against the best state champs I think we've had. Since I mentioned the Vikings - they're up first
St. Joseph's Prep 2020 vs. _________
- Thread starter RoverNation05
- Start date
St. Joseph’s Prep 2020 vs. Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2004
Tale of the Tape (SJP listed first)
FBS Recruits 8 vs. 5
FCS Recruits 8 vs. 8
Division II/III Players 2 vs. 2
Two Way Starters: 0 vs. 6
Points Per Game: 47.8 vs. 34.6
Points Allowed Per Game: 15.1 vs. 9.4
USA Today National Ranking: #3 vs. #6
Pittsburgh Central Catholic’s Lineup
QB: Shane Murray (Sr. 6’1 190; Pitt): 1,485 yards, 20 TDs/476 yards, 3 TDs
RB: Eugene Jarvis (Sr. 5’5 160; Kent State): 266 carries, 2,196 yards, 38 TDs
RB: Nino San Doval (Sr. 5’9 215 – Franklin & Marshall - wrestling)
WR: Charlie Totten (Sr. 6’3 185; Georgetown)
WR: Lamar Mason (So. 6’0 175; Slippery Rock)
TE: John Pelusi (Sr. 6’4 240; Pitt): 15 catches, 254 yards, 2 TDs
LT: Pat Illig (Jr. 6’4 295; Wofford)
LG: Pat Bryne (Sr. 6’1 230; Wooster College)
C: Jon Herman (Sr. 6’2 280; Delaware)
RG: Mack Loughrey (Jr. 6’0 225; Columbia)
RT: Graham Rihn (Sr. 6’3 235; Cornell)
Defense
DE: Graham Rihn (Sr. 6’3 235; Cornell): 74 tackles, 10 TFL, 4 sacks
DE: John Pelusi (Sr. 6’4 240; Pitt): 72 tackles, 3 sacks
DT: Stefan Wisniewski (So. 6’3 235; Penn State)
DT: Pat Byrne (Sr. 6’1 230; Wooster College): 68 tackles, 5 sacks
LB: Nate Williams (Jr. 6’2 215; Northwestern): 149 tackles
LB: Bobby Helt (Sr. 6’0 225; Georgetown): 108 tackles
LB: Julius Hopson (Sr. 5’10 185; Bucknell)
DB: Lamar Mason (So. 6’0 175; Slippery Rock)
DB: Tony Colaizzi (Sr. 5’10 180; Duquense)
DB: Dion Germany (Sr. 6’0 190)
DB: Shane Murray (Sr. 6’1 190; Pitt): 5 INTs
Why Pittsburgh Central Catholic ’04 Has a Chance: If any defense could begin to slow down this SJP roster, it’s the 2004 Vikings. Rihn, Pelusi, Byrne, Williams, Hopson, Colaizzi, and Murray all earned All State honors from one of the major publications (AP, PA Football News, Big 33) and as you can see above, 10 of the 11 starters played college football with eight of those being at the FCS or FBS level. There aren’t any complete blue-chippers on that side of the ball (Wisniewski was only a sophomore on this team, he was probably a year away from being a true national superstar), but it’s a lot of very very good football players who were legitimate good college guys. While they didn’t play a team as talented as SJP, they did meet Bishop McDevitt in the semifinals who had a Rivals100 quarterback, a wide receiver who played in the NFL, an offensive line that averaged 290 and had tackles going to Michigan and Syracuse, and of course, LeSean McCoy in the backfield. The result was a 44-3 win by Pittsburgh Central Catholic and McCoy being held to 39 yards on 26 carries (after he rushed for 1,715 yards in the previous 5 games). They also held five-star Justin King under 100 yards for the only time in his career and similarly bottled up Sean Lee. And of course, famously in state finals Neshaminy had -11 yards and hadn’t crossed midfield when Pittsburgh Central Catholic took their starters out in the third quarter.
Offensively, it’s an offensive line that can hang with Prep. Illig was an FCS All American and played for the Detroit Lions, Herman was an All State pick this year on offense, while Byrne and Rihn were defensive picks, those are good, big athletes. And of course, running behind them is Eugene Jarvis, one of the most underrated running backs of this century. The 5’5 dynamo had back to back 38 touchdown seasons at PCC, then finished 5th in the country in rushing at Ken State. They’re one of the few teams that isn’t going to be out talented at the point of attack, and have a tailback who can get his own yards and run away from people when he has a crease.
Why SJP ’20 Is Still the Favorite: Does PCC ’04 have enough firepower to keep pace? Murray was an All WPIAL pick at quarterback, but he was next level as a defender, not as a passer. The weapons on the perimeter are perfectly good for a state champ – Charlie Totten earned some All State recognition, while Lamar Mason would end up an All State player as a senior, but neither is going to scare Keenan Nelson on the edge. So the question is, can a totally run first team score enough to keep pace with the best high school offense I’ve seen in Pennsylvania? If the game turns into a track meet, are they just going to hand it off to Jarvis? And I think it would have to be a track meet because while the front seven for PCC is incredible, the secondary is merely good. I’m not sure that’s enough to match up with the McCord to Harrison, Cooper, and Hagans monstrosity that SJP can throw at them. Shane Murray was an All State safety and a starting outside linebacker at Pitt, but he’s more of an in the box, stop the run safety versus a coverage ace. Tony Colaizzi and Mason are the corners and while both are good – Colaizzi was an All State pick – you’re not putting them on an island with the Prep guys.
My Verdict: I’ve been on a soap box for a long time that Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2004 is the best big school state champ of the state playoff era. But in the end, they don’t have the same kind of blue chippers that St. Joseph’s Prep 2020 can throw out there. Murray, Williams, Pelusi, Illig, Jarvis, Wisniewski (as a sophomore here, mind you), are all “best player in the state” type talents who had recruiting stars and were good college players. But SJP’s studs are “best player in the country” type talents, with a reserve of “best player in the state” filling other roles. I think this would be a good high school football game. But I don’t think PCC ’04 could score enough points.
I would pay top dollar to see this matchup. Having only seen both teams on tv, I would probably have to side with Prep. Just too many weapons and too much speed at every level for other HS teams to deal with. Always loved that PCC team tho. Just don't think they would be able to score enough points in this particular matchup. Not a shot at PCC. That's just how good this Prep team is
This is gonna be a fun thread/topic. Great breakdown and analysis Rover
This is gonna be a fun thread/topic. Great breakdown and analysis Rover
Great analysis Rover. I agree with your conclusion. Quick question, am I reading this correctly that SJP currently has 16 Division 1 players on their roster (8 FBS and 8 FCS). Are those players with offers or projections? 16/22 starters being Division 1 players is a staggering amount. Has any team ever had more?
It was mentioned in a previous thread but I’d love to see a contrasting “ground and pound” team. I’ll throw any of the late 97-99 CB West teams in that mix. Granted, CBW would not have the athletes to cover SJP, but I think SJP would really struggle to stop West on the other side of the ball. As you said, if you let a game with SJP turn into a “track meet,” you have no chance. That’s why I think a team like CBW could have a decent chance.
It was mentioned in a previous thread but I’d love to see a contrasting “ground and pound” team. I’ll throw any of the late 97-99 CB West teams in that mix. Granted, CBW would not have the athletes to cover SJP, but I think SJP would really struggle to stop West on the other side of the ball. As you said, if you let a game with SJP turn into a “track meet,” you have no chance. That’s why I think a team like CBW could have a decent chance.
I have followed high school football in Pa. for 60 years and have never seen a team like this years Prep. Yes, I saw almost all of CB West games during their three peat and they were great teams. The Prep is so talented offensively and defensively get to the ball so quickly that they would be my choice without a doubt.
I’m trying to project using offers, good question. The 8 FBS kids includes Brad Harris and Keenan Nelson, even though neither have committed, Nelson is a top 100 player in his class and Harris has 11 FBS offers, and Josiah Trotter, whose starting to collect FBS attention as a sophomore and I have no reason to believe that isn’t his trajectory.
The FCS kids are all offers, save for Talley and Yagoditch who are commits. I also took the liberty of projecting George Reinhard as an FCS guy, since 6’4 275 pound sophomores who start on the offensive line for the state champs have a pretty good track record of playing scholarship football. He could be an FBS kid, but since he’s so young I wanted to be conservative
As far as the most Division I guys, Prep's roster last year had 10 FBS players on it, which is the most of any Big School in the state playoff era. Pittsburgh Central Catholic had 9 both in 2007 and 2015 (though the 9 in 2007 includes Brian Friend, who was a PWO at Penn State). Prep's 8 FBS kids this year would be next, followed by Prep's 6 FBS players in 2014 and 2018. In terms of both Division I levels, here are all of the double digit D1 players (FBS/FCS):
St. Joseph’s Prep 2019: 18 (10/8)
St. Joseph’s Prep 2020: 16 (8/8)
St. Joseph’s Prep 2018: 15 (6/9)
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2015: 14 (9/5)
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2004: 13 (5/8)
St. Joseph’s Prep 2014: 12 (6/6)
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2007: 12 (9/3)
CB West 1998: 12 (2/10)
St. Joseph’s Prep 2016: 11 (3/8)
Fun fact, the only Big School state champ without an FBS player is LaSalle in 2009 (that team had five FCS kids). Schools with just were were Pittsburgh Central Catholic 1988 (just Todd Orlando), CB West in 1999 (just Dustin Picciotti), Upper St. Clair 2006 (just Dane Conwell), The "least talented" state champs are (four or less DI guys):
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 1988 1 (1/0)
Cumberland Valley 1992: 3 (2/1 - but both Jon Ritchie and Askari Adams played in the NFL)
Central Dauphin 2011: 3 (2/1 - Evan Schwan played in the NFL)
CB West 1991: 4 (3/1)
McKeesport 1994: 4 (3/1 - Brandon Short played in the NFL)
Neshaminy 2001: 4 (3/1 - Jamar Brittingham signed a UDFA deal)
McKeesport 2005 4 (2/2)
CB West 1998 is one of the team's I have written up (going to release them like episodes rather than binging the whole thing - I have five in mind to compare). I can post the Bucks next.
I saw the CB West teams during that period also. They were a big team that just pummeled you with their running game. They had a running back named Armstrong who went on to Michigan I think. As a freshman, he was something like 6'3" and 230 lbs. Man among boys!
State Champs Project: CB West 1997 - here was my write up from last summer on that Bucks team, which really was the Dave Armstrong show. He was a state runner-up as a wrestler too (lost a classic to John Hard from Northampton) and probably would have been a high Division I guy if he went that route too. Great athlete, unfortunately had kind of a wird career at Michigan. If you want to read about the whole run:
State Champs Project: CB West 1998
State Champs Project: CB West 1999
These are where I'm drawing all of my data from by the way.
Against a team like the 2004 PCC team (that ended the Prep's longest winning streak in the first game of the season) the Prep would likely need two players who didn't play on Saturday because of Injury: Jeremiah Trotter and Joshua Barlow. The latter was injured in the first game of the season and is a very talented RB with lots of speed.
The PCC defense would give the Prep's fairly inexperienced offensive line (and thus McCord) some real problems, but my guess is the Prep's short passing game would compensate. I've never seen a team with the array of receivers the Prep had this year--all capable of blowing by coverage on long routes and of turning short passes into TDs from anywhere on the field.
One other consideration: playing in bad weather. All the Prep's games this year were played in good weather. McCord completes some pinpoint passes that most other QBs wouldn't even try--or they'd try with a high rate of interceptions. How lots of rain or a combination of snow and ice would affect such a game and its outcome is impossible to say.
The PCC defense would give the Prep's fairly inexperienced offensive line (and thus McCord) some real problems, but my guess is the Prep's short passing game would compensate. I've never seen a team with the array of receivers the Prep had this year--all capable of blowing by coverage on long routes and of turning short passes into TDs from anywhere on the field.
One other consideration: playing in bad weather. All the Prep's games this year were played in good weather. McCord completes some pinpoint passes that most other QBs wouldn't even try--or they'd try with a high rate of interceptions. How lots of rain or a combination of snow and ice would affect such a game and its outcome is impossible to say.
That SJP win is part of the reason I tout this PCC team as the best. They were up 38-6 late in that game, they beat Gatway with King twice, including a 28-0 shutout in the WPIAL title game, a win over the Sean Lee Upper St Clair team and the Barry Church Penn Hills team, a blowout over the Shady McCoy Bishop McDevittt team, then 44-0 against McDowell, and 49-14 against Neshaminy. All of those teams won at least ten games. I think this years SJP would have laid waste to a really good schedule too, but since COVID interfered, the best we can do is my silly hypotheticals.
I think your analysis is pretty spot on. I don’t think this would be a blowout. But the receivers plus McCord are the separator. That is such a tremendous advantage and means teams have to be damn near perfect in the secondary. I’d feel better about PCC’s chances if they had one dynamite pass rusher (somebody like Noah Spence to come off the edge) or a high level FBScorner (like Damar Hamlin on the ‘15 team) to try and blanket Harrison and at least somewhat limit their options in the passing game.This defense is really good 1-11, but the star is probably Williams (who was all Big Ten at Northwestern), but having a star, run stopping middle linebacker is less important against this years Prep team than it was on their schedule.
St. Joseph’s Prep 2020 vs. CB West 1998
Tale of the Tape (SJP listed first)
FBS Recruits 8 vs. 2
FCS Recruits 8 vs. 10
Division II/III Players 2 vs. 5
Two Way Starters: 0 vs. 3
Points Per Game: 47.8 vs. 39.3
Points Allowed Per Game: 15.1 vs. 9.5
USA Today National Ranking: #3 vs. #8
CB West Starters and Stats
QB: Mike Orihel (So. 6’2 165; New Hampshire/Rowan): 47-97, 787 yards, 13 TDs
RB: Dustin Picciotti (Jr. 6’3 235; Pitt): 277 carries, 1,969 yards, 40 TDs
RB: Dave Edwards (Sr. 6’1 205; Richmond): 107 carries, 1,097 yards, 7 TDs
WR: Sean Michael-Yonson (Sr. 6’1 180; Catholic): 21 catches, 474 yards, 7 TDs
WR: Greg Kinzel (Sr. 5’11 195)
TE: Jon Wilson (Sr. 6’3 255; Richmond)
LT: Joe Wilson (Sr. 6’4 280; Richmond)
LG: Ben Carber (Sr. 6’3 310; Virginia)
C: Chris Havener (Sr. 6’5 285; Princeton)
RG: Jon Tor (Sr. 6’1 255; Catholic)
RT: Rob Bowser (Jr. 6’3 235; Duquense)
Defense
DL: Andy Elsig (Jr.. 6’2 180; Rhode Island)
DL: Damien Smith (Jr. 5’10 195)
DL: Angelo Palena (Jr. 5’11 190; Bloomsburg)
DL: Dustin Picciotti (Jr. 6’3 235; Pitt)
LB: Bryan Buckley (Sr. 6’1 220; UMass): 71 tackles
LB: Greg Kinzel (Sr. 5’11 195): 70 tackles
LB: Bryan Colahan (Jr. 6’3 220; Rhode Island)
LB: Dave Edwards (Sr. 6’1 205; Richmond): 58 tackles
DB: Dave Camburn (So. 5’10 160; Delaware)
DB: Ryan Blomgren (Jr. 6’1 195; IUP)
DB: Sean-Michael Yonson (Sr. 6’1 180; Catholic)
DB: Bill Stone (Sr. 6’0 185)
Specialists
K/P: Bob Tumelty
Why CB West ’98 Has a Shot: It’s the best offensive line of the state playoff era. Four Division I linemen, three over 280 pounds plus a 255 pound blocking tight end. They blocked for Dustin Picciotti and Dave Edward who combined for 3,066 yards and 47 touchdowns. A big, physical, and talented Mike Carey offense with one of the five best running backs of the state playoff era in Picciotti is going to have a shot with anybody. This is a team that ran for 492 yards in the state finals. They play a totally different style of football, and would have a shot at controlling the clock. If anybody is capable of slowing the game down with the Hawks, it’s this CB West team. Defensively, the linebackers rival the PCC ’04 group mentioned above with Edwards, and All State trio Bryan Buckley, Bryan Colahan, and Greg Kinzel (Buckley and Kinzel this season, Colahan in ’99). Those are big, versatile players working in the middle of the field. I'd expect the Bucks to send a ton of pressure, again, trying to exposure the young Prep offensive line and make McCord get the ball out of his hands before he wants to. And did I mention the awesome, offensive line trying to grind down their defense? Because that's the whole key here.
Why SJP ’20 is Still the Favorite: That’s a really average looking secondary to go against the St. Joseph’s Prep passing attack. Dave Camburn was a nice player and a burner, but it’s also Camburn as a sophomore and as has been addressed ad naseum on this thread, the trio of receivers the Hawks throw out there is going to need more than that. This is a team built to stop the run, but that’s just not the primary method of attack for Prep. I think the offense is the right make up to beat the Hawks – ram it down your throat with a bunch of Division I linemen and a monstrous fullback – but back to the PCC ’04 point, if this game is a shoot out, are they just going to be able to feed Picciotti. Or, can Trotter key on him the whole time as one of the few high school linebackers who is just as fast and physical?
The Verdict: I think this is Mike Pettine’s best team, I think that it’s a perfect encapsulation of how you won in the late 1990s. But I think the evolutionary offense of St. Joseph’s Prep 2020 would be too much. St. Joseph’s Prep has not struggled with Archbishop Wood during this run, and that is the best analogue to this CB West team there is, right down to the Mike Carey offensive lines. But they can’t solve for McCord and company, which seems like it'll be a recurring theme.
One of the negatives about this year`s Prep, IMO is that they only played 4 or 5games. This protected them from injury and diminishes their achievement, no matter how you slice it. The 04 PCC team was 16 and 0, the first Pa team to do that. Not saying that this makes the 04 PCC better but should not be ignored. At the end of the day you can`t really compare teams from different eras but thank you for mentioning my favorite High School team of all time, the 2004 Pittsburgh Central Catholic. Around here, we refer to PCC as Central. One thing I am sure of, Eugene Jarvis would give this years Prep team fits. On a different note : I saw on Twitter that the kids on this year`s Central team were very disappointed in their season being ended after their WPIAL Championship. They were eagerly anticipating a rematch with Prep, a team that in their mind they beat last year.
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Curious why they think they beat SJP last year. Harrison's catch was in-bounds. The Prep also played without McCord and Trotter--best offensive and defensive players--and without two other starters. Understood that injuries are part of the game.
I think PCC ‘04 has the best resume of any team in PA since 1988 (though they’re lucky they got bailed out by Neshaminy in the Eastern Final and didn’t have to play Easton ‘04...). SJP obviously isn’t going to get the chance, so I think the comparison is at least something fun to argue (more fun that bitching more about boundary schools on the other threads anyway).
I know they call it Central out there - I’ve broken the habit of saying Central when I mean Allentown Central Catholic and just go by full monikers whenever I’m on statewide boards (calling it Graham vs. St. Paris Graham when talking wrestling in Ohio was the toughest one of those for me - it’s Graham High school located in St. Paris, Ohio, not something I realized until I lived out there).
Did I sell the running game short? I frankly, have less of a feel for this SJP defense, beyond the fact that a healthy Trotter is elite, and so is Nelson, Yagoditch is an all state type end, then they’re always really well coached.
Thanks tulla, I forgot Barlow was out for my post season notes/wrap ups. You took the words out of my mouth (and post season writeup!) about SJP receivers getting behind coverage or just out blowing past....out running them.
When I first started thinking about what team could challenge this years Prep team, the team that immediately came to mind was the 2000 Erie Cathedral Prep team. You can argue that they should of beaten that loaded West team in 99, but West made the play they had to make to win the game in an absolute thriller. They came back hungry in 2000. I feel like they would match up athlete for athlete wise as good as anyone can with Prep even with Bob Sanders graduating in 2000. Jawan Walker, Charles Rush, Joe Dipre, Ed Hinkel, Dale Williams, Tim Dance, Jason Easter, Josh Lustig. Etc., could go toe to toe with alot of teams over the years. This was also the team that ended the 59 game West winning streak in one of the all time great HS football games in Pa history
Styles make fights. And I think more so at the HS level than college or pros, coaching can have a huge influence on a HS game. Prep was probably the favorite that year, but we all know you cant count out a Pettine, Sr coached team. I don't think we exactly expected the all time they produced in Hershey, but I would suspect most people familiar with Pa football expected a closely contested game.
On a side note, according to USA Today, West finished 1999 at #4 while a 1 loss ECP finished at #9. In 2000, going into Hershey, it was a battle of 2 top 10 teams according to USA Today, with ECP finishing at #4 and West finishing at #23. Strath Haven finished at #18 as well. A great year for Pa HS football
On a side note, according to USA Today, West finished 1999 at #4 while a 1 loss ECP finished at #9. In 2000, going into Hershey, it was a battle of 2 top 10 teams according to USA Today, with ECP finishing at #4 and West finishing at #23. Strath Haven finished at #18 as well. A great year for Pa HS football
Parkland also was ranked #19 in the USA Today poll at the end of the 1999 regular season. That team was probably better all around than the one that won the state title in 2002, but lost one of the great upsets in D11 history in playoffs to Easton, spoiling what could have been a great Eastern Final with CB West. Rovers beat them 7-6 one week after losing 42-13 in the last week of the regular season. Easton lost the next week 21-20 (coming up short on a two point conversion with a minute left) to the Mike Gregorik Bethlehem Catholic team that you all seem so fond of on this board. Really deep year in Pennsylvania.
You guys are getting good at guessing the ones I’ve pre-written. Erie Cathedral Prep 2000 will be the next one I post. Agree on the athletes, 1-7 this team is awesome. One of the great moves ECP made was just taking their lumps and starting all of those kids as freshmen and sophomores in 1998.
I have five that I’ve written up, I’m assume the board will guess one but not the other. And a couple more that I’m starting to draft, but the arguments start to get tough after that top five or so.
Keep them coming Rover. These are great. Super job by you. We appreciate all you and Stalker provide here.
St. Joseph’s Prep 2020 vs. Erie Cathedral Prep 2000
Tale of the Tape (SJP listed first)
FBS Recruits 8 vs. 5
FCS Recruits 8 vs. 3
Division II/III Players 2 vs. 5
Two Way Starters: 0 vs. 7
Points Per Game: 47.8 vs. 47.6
Points Allowed Per Game: 15.1 vs. 11.8
USA Today National Ranking: #3 vs. #4
Starting Lineup with Available Stats
QB: Ed Hinkel (Sr. 6’2 175; Iowa): 66-141, 1,468 yards, 22 TDs, 5 INTs/91 carries, 940 yards, 16 TDs
RB: Jawan Walker (Jr. 5’10 170; Pittsburgh): 125 carries, 925 yards, 13 TDs
RB/WR: Tim Dance (Sr. 5’11 180; Buffalo): 154 carries, 906 yards, 12 TDs 4 RET TD
WR: Josh Lustig (Sr. 5’9 170; William & Mary): 35 catches, 742 yards, 10 TDs
WR: Jason Easter (Sr. 5’7 170; Edinboro)
TE: Ed Brown (Sr. 6’3 245; Edinboro)
LT: Charles Rush (Sr. 6’3 280; Penn State)
LG: Matt Magyar (Jr. 6’0 235)
C: Justin Gzregorzewski (Sr. 5’9 225; Thiel)
RG: Matt Parsons (Sr. 6’2 275; UMass/Pittsburgh)
RT: Dale Williams (Sr. 6’7 305; Pittsburgh)
Defense
DE: Charles Rush (Sr. 6’3 280; Penn State)
DT: Dale Williams (Sr. 6’7 305; Pittsburgh)
DT: Matt Parsons (Sr. 6’2 275; UMass)
DE: Eric Field (Sr. 6’1 210; Washington & Jefferson)
LB: Joe Dipre (Sr. 6’4 240; Pittsburgh): 90 tackles
LB: Phil Lupo (Jr. 5’7 185; Washington & Jefferson)
LB: Brian White (Jr. 5’11 220)
DB: Ed Hinkel (Sr. 6’2 175; Iowa)
DB: Jason Easter (Sr. 5’7 170; Edinboro)
DB: Josh Lustig (Sr. 5’10 165; William & Mary)
DB: Jawan Walker (Jr. 5’11 170; Pittsburgh)
Specialists
K: Jim Wiberly (Jr. 6’2 195)
P: Ed Hinkel (Sr. 6’2 175; Iowa)
Why ECP ’00 Has a Shot: This is the closest anybody comes to matching the skill position talent of the Hawks. ECP ’00 has real speed and athletes on the perimeter and under center. Hinkel, Walker, Dance, and Easter were the state runner-up in the 4x100 relay and that track speed really converted to football. Hinkel is as dangerous a dual threat quarterback as you’ll find (he was really good Big Ten receiver at Iowa) and is maybe the best pure runner of any QB we’d discuss here. Dance was a state finalist in the 100 and 200 and is probably the fastest guy on the field. Walker was a four star recruit and the #15 all-purpose back in his class nationally, he ran for close to 1,000 yards despite missing the first five games of the year. Those three combined for over 2,700 yards on the ground and 45 touchdowns. Hinkel also was a credible threat throwing the ball, and was a good decision maker, evidenced by the 22-5 TD/INT ratio. It helped that he had Easter and All State wideout and FCS recruit Josh Lustig to throw the ball to, plus Dance and Walker out of the backfield or lined up in the slot. Of course, the engine that made it go was having Rush, Williams, and Parsons on the offensive line – Rush was a top 100 overall player in the country, Williams was an All State pick and a multi-year starter at Pitt, and Parsons was an FCS recruit who transferred up to Pitt. Defensively, Hinkel, Easter, Lustig, and Walker made up an elite secondary, and it is one of the few groups that would be able to run with the SJP receivers. It also is a monster defensive line with Williams, Rush, and Parsons all 275+ and FBS athletes who could make some hay against the young SJP line, and free up room for All State linebacker and Pitt recruit Joe Dipre to make plays.
Why SJP ’20 is Still the Favorite: Hinkel, Walker, Lustig, Easter, Rush, Parsons, and Williams is a phenomenal core of guys, but playing seven guys on both sides of the ball is going to catch up to you against this SJP team. Sure the secondary is fast, but they’re also going to be playing every snap both ways and going against a fresh Harrison, Cooper, and Hagans while on defense and Nelson, Atkins, Talley, and Watson on offense. And while Hinkel would be the best athlete the Hawks see at quarterback, is he that different from Pribulua (better runner but not the same passer), who they just absolutely mauled. And they didn’t have any quarterback on their schedule who came close to McCord.
The Verdict: This is the closest team 1-7 when matching up against SJP’s talent. I’d still take the Hawks (the top three of McCord-Harrison-Trotter is just too much) but Cathedral Prep belongs on the same field. But it just gets too thin after that, particularly with that top seven for ECP playing virtually every snap of the game. Hell, Hinkel is even the punter! Stylistically, this is probably the best match up because of the perimeter speed plus monster offensive line, so I think this would be the best and most aesthetically pleasing football game of the ones I’ve contemplated so far. But I think a fresher SJP team wins out in the end.
They (the Central players )and the fans who were there say he was out of bounds. I saw the replay and could not tell. Hey, they are kids can`t blame them for thinking they should have won. I watched the replay of the game twice and Prep had to complete a 4th down pass to get into overtime To beat Central. So, I can`t blame the Central kids for wanting a rematch.
You're right that the replay was not conclusive, but there was a photo clearly showing Harrison landing in bounds with possession. This isn't the definitive photo, but it shows pretty clearly that Harrison had his foot in: https://www.inquirer.com/high-schoo...-6a-semifinals-central-catholic-20191130.html
I know Cooper had a good game against PCC as QB, but nearly all his passes were short to medium distance. What McCord gave the Prep, especially with Harrison, Hagans, and Cooper as receivers was a major threat to throw downfield. That also made the running game better. (PCC pretty much bottled up Burrell, the Prep's RB all game.)
The Prep's main weakness that day was the defense. I thought from the day Trotter broke his arm that there would be a game where his absence would really hurt--and that was against PCC. Anthony Leneghan, the Prep's best defensive lineman, also missed most of the game as did probably their best DB, Anthony Rightley, who had two interceptions in the 2018 title game against Harrisburg.
But I don't want to suggest SJP would or should have beaten PCC by a wide margin. The fact is that if Harrison comes down three inches further back, PCC wins the game, And PCC may have had its own injuries. I was hoping PCC would make it through to the final this year, but obviously they were unlucky with COVID. Maybe next year.
This year he got hurt against Souderton; last year he got hurt against Roman (middle of the season).
The online recruiting services go back to 2000. In that time, no. Taking a look using 247 Sports (which uses a composite ranking of all of the recruiting sites, which gives them what I think is the industry consensus on player ratings) here are the national rankings for the SJP kids:
Kyle McCord - #25 (Five Star)
Jeremiah Trotter Jr. - #41 (Four Star)
Marvin Harrison Jr. - #91 (Four Star)
Keenan Nelson Jr. - #84 in the junior class (Four Star)
Nobody in Pennsylvania has had more than two players in the national top 100. Here are the schools that have had three Four Star players on their roster at the same time. All are four stars unless otherwise noted
Bishop McDevitt in 2005 - Lost in Western Final in 2004 (44-3 to PCC) and 2005 (14-13 to McKeesport)
RB LeSean McCoy - #29 Five Star (Miami (FL) committed/prep school/Pittsburgh)
QB Jeremy Riker - #80 (Maryland)
WR Aaron Berry - #264 (Pittsburgh)
OL Jason Kates - #282 (Michigan)
Gateway in 2007 - Lost in WPIAL Finals to PCC 35-34 (2OT)
LB Shayne Hale - #67 (Pitt)
APB Cameron Saddler - #194 (Pitt)
LB Dorian Bell - #20 the next year (Ohio State)
DB Corey Brown - #111 the next year (Ohio State)
Woodland Hills in 2001 - Lost in the state finals to Neshaminy 21-7
OL Brian Borgoyn - #138 (Penn State)
ATH Steve Breason - #190 (Michigan)
DB Ryan Mundy - #73 the next season (Michigan)
Pittsburgh Central Catholic in 2015 - State Champs
DB Damar Hamlin - #151 (Pittsburgh)
OL CJ Thorpe - #89 the next year (Penn State)
LB David Adams - #229 the next year (Notre Dame)
Penn Hills in in 2008 had two four stars in Dan Mason (#246) and Cullen Christian (#137 the next season) as well as a short, three star ranked #353 nationally who turned out pretty good (Aaron Donald). They lost in the WPIAL semis to that Gateway team the following year (just Bell and Brown)
Rover, your seemingly endless treasure trove of knowledge never ceases to amaze me. This site is not what it once was in the early 2000s, but I'm sure your one of the main reasons some people, such as myself, have stuck around for 20 or so years. Amazing stuff as always 👏👏👏👏
Imagine arguably the 2nd best football player on the planet, behind Mahomes in my opinion, being only the 3rd best player on his own HS team. I know kids develop later or earlier than others, but seems like the "scouts" may have been a little off on that one hahaha
Just a credit to the Easton public school system.
And thanks, I don’t necessarily know all of these things, butI do know where to look when I’m curious. That’s 3/4th the battle.
The funny thing is, Donald wasn’t some unknown. I think he was first team all state twice, a very decorated player. Played big school football at a traditionally strong program. Had Demond Gibson as his position coach, so learned from an NFL tackle. They just don’t give big star ratings to short defensive tackles. It’s not like he didn’t have interest - Pitt, Michigan State, NCState, Rutgers, Purdue, etc. -but he didn’t get sniffs from the biggest of big programs. But in a shocker, the good football player was still really good, and it became apparent that even though he’s short, he’s still a genetic freak. Jarrod Holley is an old friend and was a teammate of Donald at Pitt, and the stories he’s told about the ridiculous stuff he would do in practice or just playing around are insane. It was pretty clear pretty quickly that Pitt hasn’t gotten kids like that in a long time. But I give Wanndstadt credit - he was locked in to PA recruiting, had relationships with coaches, and did a great job identifying the guys who were better than their stars suggested.
That has long been my criticism with Penn State - they are not good in state recruiters, and really haven’t been since the 1990s. They miss a lot of blue chips, which is one thing, but they also don’t make up for it on the other end by being really good at evaluating the state. They never get the Aaron Donald’s, Malik Hookers, Andre Williams, the in state three stars that blow up to be All Americans. That’s one thing Ohio State next door is great at. They not only keep virtually all of their top kids, but just crush in state three star recruiting - Darron Lee, Pat Elflein, Devin Smith, hell, back to AJ Hawk. And then Pitt is good, that’s usually a big weakness they’re taking advantage of (plus they seem to always be in on WPIAL blue chips)
Im all in on Penn State except exactly what you described on their in state recruiting. Pitt on the other hand is continuing to grab many of those 3 star guys and this year they are doing it again. When PSU didnt even offer Kieth MaGuire from Malvern Prep who is playing LB at Clemson and Barmore from Neuman/ Goretti who is Alabamas Nose tackle ,I really questioned why they maintain their recruiter for this area . I could go on and on but you get the point.
Speaking of Demond Gibson, here's the one that I don't think anybody would think of, but makes for an interesting match-up.
Tale of the Tape (SJP listed first)
FBS Recruits 8 vs. 5
FCS Recruits 8 vs. 1
Division II/III Players 2 vs. 4
Two Way Starters: 0 vs. 8
Points Per Game: 47.8 vs. 26.8
Points Allowed Per Game: 15.1 vs. 8.8
USA Today National Ranking: #3 vs. #6
Starting Lineup and Available Stats
QB: Len Gilmer (Jr. 6’1 180): 26-55, 418 yards,
RB: Victor Strader (Jr. 5’11 170; Pitt/Slippery Rock): 249 carries, 1,617 yards, 15 TDs
RB: DeWayne Thompson (Jr. 5’9 170; Rutgers): 228 carries, 1,699 yards, 26 TDs
FB: Garrett Livingston (Sr. 6’1 205; Kutztown)
WR: Damion Germany (Jr. 6’0 170; IUP)
TE: BJ Dinatale (Jr. 6’2 215; Duquense)
TE: Ron Graham (Jr. 6’4 235; Penn State): 7 catches, 115 yards
LT: Mike White (Sr. 6’4 300; Pittsburgh)
LG: Demond Gibson (Sr. 6’4 315; Pittsburgh)
C: Jared Smith (Sr. 6’0 240)
RG: Ted Fitzpatrick (Sr. 6’1 250)
RT: Kevin McCoy (Sr. 6’4 245; IUP)
Defense
DE: Jeremy George (6’1 215; Slippery Rock)
DL: Demond Gibson (Sr. 6’4 315; Pittsburgh)
NG: Huedal Mickens (6’1 315)
DL: Mike White (Sr. 6’4 300; Pittsburgh)
DE: BJ Dinatale (Jr. 6’2 215; Duquense)
LB: Ron Graham (Jr. 6’4 235; Penn State)
LB: Garrett Livingston (Sr. 6’1 205; Kutztown)
DB: Damion Germany (Jr. 6’0 170; IUP)
DB: Victor Strader (Jr. 5’11 170; Pitt/Slippery Rock): 5 INTs
DB: Nick Brown (Jr. 6’0 195)
DB: DeWayne Thompson (Jr. 5’9 170; Rutgers)
Why Penn Hills ’95 Has a Shot: Take a look at the jumbo athletes. Demond Gibson started as a true freshman defensive tackle at Pitt, which kicked off 48 straight college starts, then played for the Saints, Mike White was a multi-year starter at Pitt, and Graham was a Parade All American and multi-year starting linebacker at Penn State. They’re not going to get thrown around in the trenches on either side of the ball. I’d go as far as to say there isn’t a team in this hypothetical pool that has better big guys than Penn Hills 1995. The backfield also has a pair of next level running backs, with Victor Strader, a two-time All State and Big 33 back who was recruited to Pitt and DeWayne Thompson, who was a multi-year starter at Rutgers. The pair combined for 3,316 yards and 31 TDs in 1995 – it’s not hard to see this team doing damage on the ground. Strader and Thompson also give them a pair of Division I cornerbacks, which is about as good as you’re going to get to match up with Harrison, Cooper, and Hagans. And of course, they’ve got the big fellas up front to create pressure, and one of the best high school linebackers of the last 40 years in Graham.
Why St. Joseph’s Prep ’20 is Still Favored: That is a LOT of guys going both ways! Gibson and White are great, but asking 300+ pound high school players to play both ways on the line is a real task, especially when none of their opponents are. And that’s the case for all of their stars. Graham is a blocking tight end and middle linebacker. Strader and Thompson are the running backs and corners. Even the secondary contributors like BJ Dinatale (an FCS defensive end), Dion Germany, and Garrett Livingston are taking all of the snaps on both sides of the ball. That’s a lot of talent, but that’s a LOT of snaps against a team as dangerous as SJP that can spread you out and make you run all over the field. The Penn Hills offense is also totally one dimensional. Len Gilmer threw 55 passes the entire season. Again, with two Division I running backs and that offensive line, why ever put it in the air? But a defense as fast and as well coached as SJP is going to eat a team alive if they know it’s being handed off on every play. Having two backs lets means they can’t just key on Strader or Thompson, but the total lack of air threat dooms them.
The Verdict: This Penn Hills team is the most underrated great state champ, mostly because they played didn’t have a worthy challenger in ’95 to prove just how good they were. They were #1 in the country for most of the 1996 season with Graham, Strader, Thompson, Dinatale, etc. all back, but blew a 28 game winning streak in the WPIAL playoffs which prevented them from repeating. They’ve got something unique with the pair of 300 pounders plus Graham giving them unmatched size and athleticism in their stars. But their style of football just can’t match the modern offense, and they don’t have enough depth on both sides of the ball.
St. Joseph’s Prep 2020 vs. Penn Hills 1995
Tale of the Tape (SJP listed first)
FBS Recruits 8 vs. 5
FCS Recruits 8 vs. 1
Division II/III Players 2 vs. 4
Two Way Starters: 0 vs. 8
Points Per Game: 47.8 vs. 26.8
Points Allowed Per Game: 15.1 vs. 8.8
USA Today National Ranking: #3 vs. #6
Starting Lineup and Available Stats
QB: Len Gilmer (Jr. 6’1 180): 26-55, 418 yards,
RB: Victor Strader (Jr. 5’11 170; Pitt/Slippery Rock): 249 carries, 1,617 yards, 15 TDs
RB: DeWayne Thompson (Jr. 5’9 170; Rutgers): 228 carries, 1,699 yards, 26 TDs
FB: Garrett Livingston (Sr. 6’1 205; Kutztown)
WR: Damion Germany (Jr. 6’0 170; IUP)
TE: BJ Dinatale (Jr. 6’2 215; Duquense)
TE: Ron Graham (Jr. 6’4 235; Penn State): 7 catches, 115 yards
LT: Mike White (Sr. 6’4 300; Pittsburgh)
LG: Demond Gibson (Sr. 6’4 315; Pittsburgh)
C: Jared Smith (Sr. 6’0 240)
RG: Ted Fitzpatrick (Sr. 6’1 250)
RT: Kevin McCoy (Sr. 6’4 245; IUP)
Defense
DE: Jeremy George (6’1 215; Slippery Rock)
DL: Demond Gibson (Sr. 6’4 315; Pittsburgh)
NG: Huedal Mickens (6’1 315)
DL: Mike White (Sr. 6’4 300; Pittsburgh)
DE: BJ Dinatale (Jr. 6’2 215; Duquense)
LB: Ron Graham (Jr. 6’4 235; Penn State)
LB: Garrett Livingston (Sr. 6’1 205; Kutztown)
DB: Damion Germany (Jr. 6’0 170; IUP)
DB: Victor Strader (Jr. 5’11 170; Pitt/Slippery Rock): 5 INTs
DB: Nick Brown (Jr. 6’0 195)
DB: DeWayne Thompson (Jr. 5’9 170; Rutgers)
Why Penn Hills ’95 Has a Shot: Take a look at the jumbo athletes. Demond Gibson started as a true freshman defensive tackle at Pitt, which kicked off 48 straight college starts, then played for the Saints, Mike White was a multi-year starter at Pitt, and Graham was a Parade All American and multi-year starting linebacker at Penn State. They’re not going to get thrown around in the trenches on either side of the ball. I’d go as far as to say there isn’t a team in this hypothetical pool that has better big guys than Penn Hills 1995. The backfield also has a pair of next level running backs, with Victor Strader, a two-time All State and Big 33 back who was recruited to Pitt and DeWayne Thompson, who was a multi-year starter at Rutgers. The pair combined for 3,316 yards and 31 TDs in 1995 – it’s not hard to see this team doing damage on the ground. Strader and Thompson also give them a pair of Division I cornerbacks, which is about as good as you’re going to get to match up with Harrison, Cooper, and Hagans. And of course, they’ve got the big fellas up front to create pressure, and one of the best high school linebackers of the last 40 years in Graham.
Why St. Joseph’s Prep ’20 is Still Favored: That is a LOT of guys going both ways! Gibson and White are great, but asking 300+ pound high school players to play both ways on the line is a real task, especially when none of their opponents are. And that’s the case for all of their stars. Graham is a blocking tight end and middle linebacker. Strader and Thompson are the running backs and corners. Even the secondary contributors like BJ Dinatale (an FCS defensive end), Dion Germany, and Garrett Livingston are taking all of the snaps on both sides of the ball. That’s a lot of talent, but that’s a LOT of snaps against a team as dangerous as SJP that can spread you out and make you run all over the field. The Penn Hills offense is also totally one dimensional. Len Gilmer threw 55 passes the entire season. Again, with two Division I running backs and that offensive line, why ever put it in the air? But a defense as fast and as well coached as SJP is going to eat a team alive if they know it’s being handed off on every play. Having two backs lets means they can’t just key on Strader or Thompson, but the total lack of air threat dooms them.
The Verdict: This Penn Hills team is the most underrated great state champ, mostly because they played didn’t have a worthy challenger in ’95 to prove just how good they were. They were #1 in the country for most of the 1996 season with Graham, Strader, Thompson, Dinatale, etc. all back, but blew a 28 game winning streak in the WPIAL playoffs which prevented them from repeating. They’ve got something unique with the pair of 300 pounders plus Graham giving them unmatched size and athleticism in their stars. But their style of football just can’t match the modern offense, and they don’t have enough depth on both sides of the ball.
Two significant injuries in two years is a bit concerning - hope he can bounce back.
Younger bro on 1st team was a surprise to me, did you guys see that production during the season?
fletch - I was surprised as well, unfortunately, due to circumstances, not much visibility. I have been told that he is more athletic but needs to learn the speed of the game and patience, he’s young and tends to overplay. Apparently, he may be as good or better? Time will tell.