SJP-Nazareth
- Thread starter RoverNation05
- Start date
Trying to watch with a critical eye… should Nazareth be in this much man, can they keep running it off tackle against what’s basically a Prep 6-1 front, etc… but the reality is that scheme doesn’t matter when it’s this lopsided talent-wise.
I don’t think they can pass block on the interior. 5’9 230 trying to block Max Roy is a bad time.
I agree, I wasn’t clear… I thought their best bet is to run off tackle inside those PREP OLBs who are flying upfield. But then Prep run blitzes and it’s a loss of 3, and that’s that.
SJP had 2& with 4 minutes left in the first quarter. Foot a little more off the gas since, I’m assuming they’ll play their JV team in the second half.
Hey Rover -- make that 59-21 in the fourth.
Actually, that's the final score.
Can CB South come up with something?
Actually, that's the final score.
Can CB South come up with something?
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That's a shame. And as much as SJP is PIAA and playing by the rules, this is way out of whack. I for one don't believe winning state titles can mean that much to the school given it is typically a cake walk. Ok, a few 16, 17 and 18 year olds go nuts. And I don't believe it can mean that much to alumni either, crushing teams with predictable ease.
End of the day a lot of very, very good high school football teams are not getting recognized for what they are, being overshadowed by what for all practical purposes is an anomaly.
End of the day a lot of very, very good high school football teams are not getting recognized for what they are, being overshadowed by what for all practical purposes is an anomaly.
Even though I’m an admitted public school advocate, I’m actually not sold on separating (see NJ). But I can’t help but be intrigued by a final four of NA v Hburg and Naz v CBS at the 6A level.
Question for anyone who saw the game today and is familiar with Nazareth: was the Nazareth we saw today the same team that beat Parkland last week and that had a very strong regular season? I can't begin to answer the question, but when I heard that SJP blocked two punts in the first half of the first quarter I wondered if Nazareth was psyched out going into the game.
And to begin to answer your question, Stalker, I think lots of alumni (myself included) would like to see more competitive balance within the PCL and within the PIAA playoffs. I can see why some argue that SJP's football team--obviously this doesn't apply to other sports--should not compete in the PIAA playoffs, but I also think the people who want that to happen should go on to ask other questions. Look, for instance, at Ohio. I see that last night Moeller lost to a public high school team, and St. Edward lost to one public team (Washington) earlier in the year and beat another (Elder) by one point. Remember also that SJP was losing to Lakeland (which is not having one of their best years) in the 3rd quarter back in September.
I use to feel the same but it’ll blow over. Meaning if they leave and remain in the area would we always have the question of what if? They’ll leave and every champion after that would lose credibility. That Lebo team will be remembered for quite some time. Maybe I’m wrong idk. When my sons went to Roman and was being recruited the coaches only wanted to know what they did against sjp.
They will mercy rule everyone through the playoffs including the title game and they will be just as strong next year if not better with what they have returning. They also had 2 four star jr transfers one from Roman another from NJ. I don't know how people on the board defend this. No one wants to see it. Not fare to the kids either. We don't have this issue on the western part of the state. We don't have a sjp and a Imhotep. Even our private schools have down years and rebuilding years unlike prep.
It’s not just football. Watch what a joke Faith Christian Academy, Bishop McCort and Bethlehem Catholic will make of the wrestling tournament in the winter - Bethlehem Catholic has fit 15 years now, McCort and FCA just snapped their fingers and became top 20 teams in America. Boys and girls hoops are well documented.
The issue for Nazareth on the punts was their special teams are guys who are not necessarily starters on one of the smallest teams in 6A going against the bevy of underclassmen athletes SJP has. You saw blips of the Nazareth in the season with the long touchdown to Kuehner, the first TD drive had a couple nice plays strung together.
But the major difference in the game was Nazareth had a perfectly normal offensive line - a tackle who will play low major football, one kid who might play D2, and three high school kids who are well coached, trying to block the SJP front seven whose fifth best guy is the best defensive lineman/linebacker at any school in district 1 or district 11
The issue for Nazareth on the punts was their special teams are guys who are not necessarily starters on one of the smallest teams in 6A going against the bevy of underclassmen athletes SJP has. You saw blips of the Nazareth in the season with the long touchdown to Kuehner, the first TD drive had a couple nice plays strung together.
But the major difference in the game was Nazareth had a perfectly normal offensive line - a tackle who will play low major football, one kid who might play D2, and three high school kids who are well coached, trying to block the SJP front seven whose fifth best guy is the best defensive lineman/linebacker at any school in district 1 or district 11
Also, Elder isn’t public, that’s a Catholic school in Cincy. And Massolin Washington is one of the legendary high school programs of all time - it’s where Paul Brown coached - and they get a massive amount of transfers in year to year.
Thanks for the correction. I think the larger point is that the disparity between Catholic schools and public schools in Ohio isn't so great if St. Edward's in the north loses to a public school and Moeller in the south also loses to a public school. My question about PA is whether for football the public / private issue would still be a major one if SJP were not in the picture.
I mean, in Ohio you’re going to see Division I, II, III, and IV probably won by Catholic schools, unless Glenville (Cleveland’s Imhotep) wins DIV.
Catholic schools have won 39/50 D1 championships, 28/42 in D2, 31/50 in d3, 19/42 in D4, 23/50in D5, 8/29 in d6, and 0/11 in d7. Still pretty dominant in thr classifications that have private schools in them.
Catholic schools have won 39/50 D1 championships, 28/42 in D2, 31/50 in d3, 19/42 in D4, 23/50in D5, 8/29 in d6, and 0/11 in d7. Still pretty dominant in thr classifications that have private schools in them.
It’s not an issue for SJP, it’s an issue for OSU and an interesting angle that you’ve taken under the subject topic. Quite intriguing actually. Never considered football a one man game. I would suggest that Michigans line play was superior and it was obviously a home game for them. The game ending pick was also a result of his arm being bumped under pressure. Just a real interesting take here that a blowout game turns in to isolating a former player as a mistake. Not sure McCarthy fairs better if the roles were reversed. But again, interesting direction for a comment.
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Wasserman: J.J. McCarthy, Kyle McCord and the costly decision Ryan Day got wrong
McCarthy wanted to play for Ohio State. Day chose McCord. Now McCarthy and Michigan have won three straight in the rivalry.theathletic.com
Interesting numbers, but I doubt it's simply a matter of some schools having boundaries and others not having them. Are there rules around coaching--who gets to coach where and under what conditions--that make a difference? Does having to make a financial contribution--in many cases a significant one--constitute or reflect a particular kind of commitment or investment that families make? Certainly the fact that across the country Catholic schools are very over-represented in the lists of best football teams raises lots of questions that don't have a single answer.
I'm somewhat familiar with the situation in Jersey. Do people who want separate classifications for "non-public" schools in PA regard the Jersey situation as ideal?
Very overblown. McCarthy "hated" OSU because of what the program did to him? Did they kidnap him? Torture his parents?
Roxy's point stands. What's the point of this on this thread?
Why? It’s not that deep.
On topic here - D11 drops to 2-12 in big school quarterfinals since the PCL joined the PIAA. For comparison sake, D1 is 2-13 (two losses to D11 and 11 to PCL teams) in semifinals in the same time period.
There was a stretch where D11-D12 played a bunch of very good games that got decided in the 4th quarter. Both Easton-LaSalle’s in 09/10, Nazareth-LaSalle in 11 Parkland-SJP and Parkland-LaSalle in 14/15 - all down to the wire high school games between pretty evenly matched teams. But since 15, the amount that SJP has separated is staggering. There are years I’ve thought the D11 team just isn’t very good - 17, 18, and 22 come to mind. But I think this Nazareth team compared pretty favorably to some of the teams in the 08-15 group, and they had given up 45 points by halftime. Am I just wrong and the quality of football from the best teams up here is just way worse? Or has SJP’s quality just fundamentally changed. I think it’s the latter, but I don’t know if that’s just sour grapes. Every year I tell myself I’m going to stop following statewide football because it’s a waste of time, partly because my alma mater has become a joke, but also because it’s just kind of predictable and less fun than it was even five years ago. And I definitely follow (and post) less and less, but I haven’t been able to quit it just yet. But if high school football is losing people like me, who have loved and been fascinated by it since I was in elementary school (a LONG time ago now), that’s probably a giant red flag for the game as a whole.
Part of the reason D11 does so well in wrestling is the insanity of transfers - Kinney for Nazareth today is a transfer from East Stroudsburg South before his freshman year - and maybe coaches who are more aggressive about that on the football side are what it’s going to take? Emmaus had two Division I offensive linemen, if D11 is going to be competitive, should they just be “moving” down the road to Parkland and the best teams should be sucking the the other schools dry? Again, on the wrestling side this had been a big reason why Northampton, Nazareth, and Easton were competing to be the best teams in America for a long time, against the Blair and St. Ed’s of the world. Maybe it’s time to get way more cutthroat about going after guys and trying to make sure that talent gets concentrated better at a couple schools. It takes a coach or two who can make that happen at a big school. But until that happens, it’s just not worth paying attention after thanksgiving. Hell, maybe it’s time to start bringing some of those rivalry games back as a culminating event.
On topic here - D11 drops to 2-12 in big school quarterfinals since the PCL joined the PIAA. For comparison sake, D1 is 2-13 (two losses to D11 and 11 to PCL teams) in semifinals in the same time period.
There was a stretch where D11-D12 played a bunch of very good games that got decided in the 4th quarter. Both Easton-LaSalle’s in 09/10, Nazareth-LaSalle in 11 Parkland-SJP and Parkland-LaSalle in 14/15 - all down to the wire high school games between pretty evenly matched teams. But since 15, the amount that SJP has separated is staggering. There are years I’ve thought the D11 team just isn’t very good - 17, 18, and 22 come to mind. But I think this Nazareth team compared pretty favorably to some of the teams in the 08-15 group, and they had given up 45 points by halftime. Am I just wrong and the quality of football from the best teams up here is just way worse? Or has SJP’s quality just fundamentally changed. I think it’s the latter, but I don’t know if that’s just sour grapes. Every year I tell myself I’m going to stop following statewide football because it’s a waste of time, partly because my alma mater has become a joke, but also because it’s just kind of predictable and less fun than it was even five years ago. And I definitely follow (and post) less and less, but I haven’t been able to quit it just yet. But if high school football is losing people like me, who have loved and been fascinated by it since I was in elementary school (a LONG time ago now), that’s probably a giant red flag for the game as a whole.
Part of the reason D11 does so well in wrestling is the insanity of transfers - Kinney for Nazareth today is a transfer from East Stroudsburg South before his freshman year - and maybe coaches who are more aggressive about that on the football side are what it’s going to take? Emmaus had two Division I offensive linemen, if D11 is going to be competitive, should they just be “moving” down the road to Parkland and the best teams should be sucking the the other schools dry? Again, on the wrestling side this had been a big reason why Northampton, Nazareth, and Easton were competing to be the best teams in America for a long time, against the Blair and St. Ed’s of the world. Maybe it’s time to get way more cutthroat about going after guys and trying to make sure that talent gets concentrated better at a couple schools. It takes a coach or two who can make that happen at a big school. But until that happens, it’s just not worth paying attention after thanksgiving. Hell, maybe it’s time to start bringing some of those rivalry games back as a culminating event.
You sound like a boxing manager yelling at his fighter between rounds: "stand your ground"!!!
But we're not in a boxing match. I thought Rover's decision was a very sensible one and I appreciate it. This is a PA high school football board. If you want to make an extended comment about OSU-UM, there are plenty of other places to do that.
Rover,
I understand where you're coming from. You know D11 football inside out, and I know very little about it, but my impression is that there's been some drop off, at least at the big school level, from 8-14 years ago.
Has SJP gone onto a different level? Probably, but it's really hard to tell since some of the teams they play year in and year out (LaSalle, Judge, and Wood) have fallen off some.
I agree that lots of blowouts are not what we want. I don't like to see any high school kid end his football days by playing the whole second half with a running clock going against him. What I'm convinced we can't do is return entirely to the ways things were when we were young. The changes to the college game, especially those that relate to recruiting, social media, the influence of ESPN, etc, are all impacting hs football.
Rover -
Well put (as all your posts are).
What struck me is YOU saying your interest in PA schoolboy ball may be waning -- that ain't good.
I was for the PCL coming in but now ... not so much.
Well put (as all your posts are).
What struck me is YOU saying your interest in PA schoolboy ball may be waning -- that ain't good.
I was for the PCL coming in but now ... not so much.
They did play img to a 17-14 game. IMG!! Who they are saying this year's img team might be there best and they get the top recruits around the entire country. I feel like the gap will continue to grow.
Non-boundary schools being over-represented might not have a single reason, but having control of the makeup of the roster is the #1 reason.
Again just allow choice transfer in PA. Let kids in bucks county go where they want to. Let kids in Allegheny county go where they want to let kids in Dauphin county go where they want to then things might even out. Load up Harrisburg or CB South or North Allegheny or parkland then play St joes. Until this happens St joes will continue to roll and people will continue to complain . Come on PIAA even it up
If sjp/Roman had imhotep kids instead of jersey kids there would still be issues for some.
Perhaps but that’s already happening do a degree. I say just open it up if I was a taxpayer in say Bucks county and I lived in CB East district and I wanted my kid to go to CB west I should be able to sent my kid there. But also it’s only football but allow kids to go where they want that’s what is happening at st joes kids are going where they want. Allow the public schools to do that
Really. I do. It would help a lot. Also this would shut down the “charter school BS”. Now you give parents a choice of real public schools the charters would go belly up
Sammy is right -- he should be the Commissioner of PA Schoolboy Football (and Stalk should be The King and Rover the head of the Church of Pennsylvania Football -- that would fix things).
All kidding aside I might add I have been on the "go where you want" bandwagon for some time. I mean realistically this has been going on -- just quietly and not at a level that gets too much attention in the East (take my word for it -- I know of a few examples).
PS Those are well paying jobs -- nobody is doing this for free.
All kidding aside I might add I have been on the "go where you want" bandwagon for some time. I mean realistically this has been going on -- just quietly and not at a level that gets too much attention in the East (take my word for it -- I know of a few examples).
PS Those are well paying jobs -- nobody is doing this for free.
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Also, we can agree besides open boundaries sjp have something in football besides having talent. I think that’s completely over looked. No way they stay in that IMG game if it’s on talent alone bc they didn’t win that category.