PIne-Richland 2022
- Thread starter new2pa
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I like ledonne, but it’s not hard to argue they’d be going for their third consecutive state title had they still had kasper. You just can’t give him any credit on here, I wonder why 😂😂
It's funny just a few months ago didn't someone write that PR is irrelevant along with this thread. Everyone needs to give this up that kasperovich left and isn't coming back. Now PR is in the finals and everyone is writing how great there coaching is. I'm picking them over Imhotep. I think like last year the kicking game could be the difference.
2014 would probably rival this year. 5-5 in 2013 to 15-1.
P-R should probably be undefeated or close if Palmeiri was always the QB like he should have been. So if you make a dumb coaching decision then fix it, does it count? After all, he was a 1000/1000 passer/rusher last year...
hey folks,,, debating about the "worst champion ever" is just kinda dumb. In the last 20 years, PR has made it to 5 State Finals, with 3 different coaches, all 3 coaches were good coaches, and, all 5 teams have been really good. I'm sure hundreds of PA schools, would be super proud to have made it to even one final, and all the schools would say "wow our team that year was really great."
And, we just don't know how great PR 2022 was, cuz the season is not yet over. If PR whoops Imotep, they will be one of the best ever at PR, certainly not the "worst." The story is not yet over.
And this year- yes in September PR was kinda irrelevant- not really a "top local team" locally and certainly a "top 5 team in the state."
and it WAS kind of a rebuild year- but they made all the fixes during the year, and the coaches and team have worked to get better NOW, worked really friggin hard to build a strong team, now.
new- i could argue that the qb change was a "necessary evil" as it forced rgw coaches to make several changes, not just Palmieri- it was all just part of the process- just not sure if the team be so tough and "gritty" if they did not go thru the early season struggles. Who cares if they are "undefeated" if they manage to win a state title?? I dont
And jacky- agree w your comments- but id say if EITHER kasper or Ledonne was HC in 2021, Pr could be "going for the third in a row!!"
And, we just don't know how great PR 2022 was, cuz the season is not yet over. If PR whoops Imotep, they will be one of the best ever at PR, certainly not the "worst." The story is not yet over.
And this year- yes in September PR was kinda irrelevant- not really a "top local team" locally and certainly a "top 5 team in the state."
and it WAS kind of a rebuild year- but they made all the fixes during the year, and the coaches and team have worked to get better NOW, worked really friggin hard to build a strong team, now.
new- i could argue that the qb change was a "necessary evil" as it forced rgw coaches to make several changes, not just Palmieri- it was all just part of the process- just not sure if the team be so tough and "gritty" if they did not go thru the early season struggles. Who cares if they are "undefeated" if they manage to win a state title?? I dont
And jacky- agree w your comments- but id say if EITHER kasper or Ledonne was HC in 2021, Pr could be "going for the third in a row!!"
yes that was me
and i was also the first to say they would win the wpial after they beat NA and Central
how convenient for you to forget that, Hauswoman
This coming from the same guy that said coach renders players hated him at upper st clair, central valley recruits, and had a steroid scandal and pine Richland is irrelevant and we should shut down this thread yet you continue to write on it. You just write BS on here.
wow you are still crying about those FACTS i posted
PR was irrelevant, they lost 3 games two of the teams didn't even make the playoffs, show me where you predicted them to be this good today, you never said they would you just cried about me being "mean" to PR
Central Valley is very shady
many players hated Render, don't blame them at all he's a total douche, I was disappointed USC lost in the final simply because I know it would've killed his ego if they won lol
why on earth does any of that bother you? how many times do i have to tell you to get laid?
what do you post here other than whining about me or bizarrely thinking the wpial should give a rat's ass about "Erie Prep" not having a full schedule?
This is certainly the least talented team that made the final in PRs history.
I saw 2 of their games in person this year including the quarterfinal game vs. Erie Cathedral Prep. I don't think this team is any less talented than past teams except maybe at QB. Palmeri may not be a big time college QB but he is excellent for high school. Has a big arm and accurate. The WR's are good, the LB's are good, the lines are good. Pillar is explosive and a beast. Last year was clearly just a coaching fiasco, the talent was there.
I saw 2 of their games in person this year including the quarterfinal game vs. Erie Cathedral Prep. I don't think this team is any less talented than past teams except maybe at QB. Palmeri may not be a big time college QB but he is excellent for high school. Has a big arm and accurate. The WR's are good, the LB's are good, the lines are good. Pillar is explosive and a beast. Last year was clearly just a coaching fiasco, the talent was there.
I gotta disagree with this. We can do player by player comparisons but besides Cory, there isn’t really a comparison.
And consider, I think everyone agrees the QB is the BEST player on the team.
Except they aren't facts. Prove me wrong right on here and back those facts up. I'll be waiting.
sorry i can't find newspaper quotes of players saying they hated Render, you will have to keep thinking i decided to make it up for no reason at all
i wonder if Jim cares about your feelings as much as you care about his
same thing with Central Valley, just telling you what people in the community told me, it is a touchy subject with you because the "Erie Prep" linebacker got busted with roids at Pitt about 20 years ago? can't remember his name as i type this
I did say PR was irrelevant at the time and they were, they were unranked and it looked like a playoff appearance would be tough, the fans here were very depressed so yeah at the time what i said was fact
then they beat Central and NA and guess who was the first to say they would win the WPIAL??? ME! IT WAS ME!, not you or anybody else it was ME
the facts don't care about your feelings Hauswoman HAHA
i can't name their names, i mean you are upset about me saying this as is, wouldn't i be a total gossip queen if i named names?
can you prove that they didn't tell me what they told me? where's your proof i'm lying? where is your proof i'm picking on Jim Render and Central Valley for no good reason, huh? where's your proof???????
and my prediction about PR winning the wpial several weeks ago is on this forum, you conveniently forgot
i agree w aergenes- some variations over the years, but no big difference
new- i could go on and on, but 2014, zero kids graduated from power 5 colleges, 2017 seniors, only one played FBS football
so, yes overall 2017 was most talented, but all the rest were talented, including this year, were close, not far behind
crazy, I could make a case for 2021 seniors being the most talented of any of last 10 PR years... challenge? and overall talent best also
Start with 2017
Jurkovec - ND/BC/?
Kristofic - ND
Katic - IU
Dorundo - Duq
King - Navy/SB/?
Falcone: Lehigh
And that doesn't include White, Crawford, DeFrancis, Cerminara, Burns.... The only kid on the 2022 team who might compare to any of them is Cory. Maybe. Are there even any other kids playing FBS or FCS? Beam maybe?
I assume you mean the 2020 team when you say 2021 seniors? That group had
Jackson, Spencer, Jochem, Hayes, Miller as the Big 5. Then had Neill - Duq, Mill - Elon, Lenz - Duq, Hasley - Duke, etc.
But, if you literally mean the 2021 football seniors, I'll take your challenge.
I can listen to comparisons against 2014, but come on - DiNucci was an NFL draft pick. Who in this group do you expect to be drafted?
The ranking to me still is:
2017
2021
Gap
2014
Whether 2022 goes one spot above or one spot below 2014 is TBD in my mind and isn't just based on if they win or lose. Need some perspective.
Jurkovec - ND/BC/?
Kristofic - ND
Katic - IU
Dorundo - Duq
King - Navy/SB/?
Falcone: Lehigh
And that doesn't include White, Crawford, DeFrancis, Cerminara, Burns.... The only kid on the 2022 team who might compare to any of them is Cory. Maybe. Are there even any other kids playing FBS or FCS? Beam maybe?
I assume you mean the 2020 team when you say 2021 seniors? That group had
Jackson, Spencer, Jochem, Hayes, Miller as the Big 5. Then had Neill - Duq, Mill - Elon, Lenz - Duq, Hasley - Duke, etc.
But, if you literally mean the 2021 football seniors, I'll take your challenge.
I can listen to comparisons against 2014, but come on - DiNucci was an NFL draft pick. Who in this group do you expect to be drafted?
The ranking to me still is:
2017
2021
Gap
2014
Whether 2022 goes one spot above or one spot below 2014 is TBD in my mind and isn't just based on if they win or lose. Need some perspective.
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ok, this is fun!!
So, the original debate was "level of talent of PR state final teams." And my comments were, basically "there is not a huge difference in talent in any of the groups."
So, overall talent on a "team" yea, no debate "2017 Final PR Team" was the best talent, i agree.
BUT the SENIORS on 2017- crazy, really only one kids FBS- Phil. Kinda my point, is even with the talent, some of those kids really "overperformed" for their true size/skill.
Ok- so here is the list of Seniors, going FBS / Power5-
2014-2- Dinucci (P5) and Slomka
2017- 1- Phil (P5)
2020- 4- Hayes, Jackson, Jochem, (P5), Miller (maybe "most talented??")
2021- 2- Klemm, Hasley (both P5- maybe "just as talented" as 17 or 14?)
Alright, now here is the "senior challenge"
2017- Seniors who actually played football- I will say 3 seniors "played college" and 8 total played, 3 kids Power 5 on team
Jurkovec - P5/FBS- no debate
Falcone: FCS- Lehigh
White- JUCO, never really went on
Crawford- never played college- got hurt, DeFrancis- did not play college, Burns-college track
rest were below FBS-
Dorundo - FCS- Duq
King -FCS-stoney brook
Cerminara- one year FCS, got cut,
(Kristofic -was a junior-Katic -was a junior, King, Cerm juniors)
Challenge...
2021- Seniors, who are now playing- Klemm, Hasley (FBS- power 5 top 20 teams); FCS- Boyd- FCS, Marist, Lenz-FCS, Duq, Gochis-FCS, Duq, Domer-Clarion, D2. So, NOW, 6 kids playing, more than 2017. AND the team included Cory- who WILL be P5- so the 2021 Team had 3 Power 5 Kids? Same as 2017?
2022- Not Talented? The story is not yet told- but...
The Following kids could be FBS- Cory and Beam. The following kids will probably be FCS- Heckert, Rottinghaus, Kerns, Carrigan, Palmieri, Pillar, Mellis- COULD be maybe 8-9 kids from the team playing College in a couple years? Maybe "just about as talented" as other years. Team could have 1-3 Power 5 kids, similar to other years.
Now, "getting drafted" or playing pro? IDK, too many variables- funny in the last 12 years, the most successful PR kid- as far as getting "paid to play?" He was not EVEN all-state- I think he was second team all-conference- ya know who??
2020: You got me thinking and I had to call a ton of people, but here the list of P-R seniors that played football (or could have played football and chose a different sport - aka Spencer.) I don't have a lot of contacts before 2014, so that may be spotty. You can see why the 2014 (18), 2017 (15) and 2020 (19) teams were so good. A TON of kids that were Juniors and Seniors (and a few Sophomores) that got the opportunity to play at a high level. I don't really think any of the other teams stack up close to those three in terms of talent and probably competition.
2010 Seniors (2) (FBS: 0 FCS: 2 D2: 0 D3: 0 )
Andy Borgen, QB: VMI
Tommy Berexa, WR: Duquesne
2011 Seniors(3) (FBS: 1 FCS: D2: D3: 2 )
Austin Whipple Post-Grad/PSU/UMass
Steve Szelong, Muhlenberg
Ben Balish, John Carroll
2012 Seniors (9) (FBS: 3 FCS: 1 D2: 3 D3: 2 )
Nick Elms, Pitt
Luke Merhaut, Clarion
Brock Baranowski, Penn State
Kevin Rader, Youngstown
Nick Berus, UMass
CJ Jackson, IUP
Patrick Kline, CalU
TJ Muzzonigro, Tufts
Michael Keffer, Wyanesburg
2013 Seniors (1) (FBS: 0 FCS: 0 D2: 0 D3: 0 )
Chris Szelong, John Caroll
2014 Seniors (10) (FBS: 3 FCS: 1 D2: 3 D3: 2 JuCo: 1 Other: 1 )
Ben DiNucci, Pitt
Diondre Gaston, Juco
Matt Zoeller, Clarion
Jake Goode, Clarion
John Kohley, Dayton
Connor Slomka, Army
Brenden Burnham (Maryland / Wrestling)
Earnest William, Slippery Rock
Joe English, Kent State
Luke Everett, Juniata
2015 Seniors (8) (FBS: 1 FCS: 3 D2: 2 D3: 2 )
Anthony Battaglia, Army
Matt Hamspon, Princeton
Jim Willard, Slippery Rock
Joey Joy, Westminster
Jimmy Graf, Westminster
Don Bryant, Mercyhurst
Tom Jurkovec, Duquesne
Jacob Gill, Duquesne
2016 Seniors (5) (FBS: 3 FCS: 2 D2: 0 D3: 0 )
Ryan Duran, Army
Neiman Novitski, Kent State
Tanner Douglass, Lamar
Mark Weideman, Duquesne
Grant Carrigan, Pitt
2017 Seniors (6) (FBS: 1 FCS: 1 D2: 1 D3: 1 JuCo: 1 Other: 1)
Phil Jurkovec, ND
Ray Falcone, Lehigh
Kenny White, JuCo
Jordan Crawford, Slippery Rock
Dawson Golts (Highpoint, LAX)
Vito Orsini, Marietta
2018 Seniors (9) (FBS: 3 FCS: 3 D2: 0 D3: 3 )
Andrew Kristofic, ND
Mike Katic, Indiana
Tyler King, Navy
Mike Dorundo, Duquesne
Anthony Cerminara, Dayton
Shayne Cafardi, Allegheny
Ben McGregor, Westminster
Dylan Stenson, Youngstown
Merrick Miller, Denison
2019 Seniors (6) (FBS: 1 FCS: 3 D2: 1 D3: 1 )
Seth Bolin, Duquesne
Levi Wentz, Old Dominion
Nevin Novitski, Mercyhurst
Chance Boyd, John Carrol
Trent Miller, Valparaiso
Ethan O’Neil, Duquesne
2020 Seniors (11) (FBS: 4 FCS: 3 D2: 0 D3: 3 Other: 1 )
Harrison Hayes, Liberty
Miguel Jackson, Charlotte
Luke Miller, Kent State
Eli Jochem, Indiana
Cole Spencer (Penn, Wrestling)
Sam Neill, Duquesne
Charlie Mill, Elon
Jordan Burns, Westminster
Roman Dunlap, W & J
Zach Waryanka, John Carrol
John Swisher, Duquesne
2021 Seniors (6) (FBS: 2 FCS: 3 D2: 1 D3: 0 )
Jeremiah Hasley, Duke
Cole Boyd, Marist
Alex Gochis, Duquesne
Connor Lenz, Duquesne
Jalen Klemm, Kansas State
Jacob Domer, Clarion
2022 Seniors (4) (FBS: 1 FCS: 2 D2: 1 D3: )
Jacob Beam (Best Offer: Marshall)
Max Heckert (Best Offer: Marist)
Ryan Palmeiri (Best Offer: None)
Isaiah Kerns (Best Offer: Clarion)
Andrew Mellis (Best Offer: Dayton)
Brady Carrigan (Best Offer: None)
John Rottinghaus (Best Offer: None)
2023 Seniors (1) (FBS: 1 FCS: 0 D2: 0 D3: )
Ryan Cory (Best Offer: Oregon)
2010 Seniors (2) (FBS: 0 FCS: 2 D2: 0 D3: 0 )
Andy Borgen, QB: VMI
Tommy Berexa, WR: Duquesne
2011 Seniors(3) (FBS: 1 FCS: D2: D3: 2 )
Austin Whipple Post-Grad/PSU/UMass
Steve Szelong, Muhlenberg
Ben Balish, John Carroll
2012 Seniors (9) (FBS: 3 FCS: 1 D2: 3 D3: 2 )
Nick Elms, Pitt
Luke Merhaut, Clarion
Brock Baranowski, Penn State
Kevin Rader, Youngstown
Nick Berus, UMass
CJ Jackson, IUP
Patrick Kline, CalU
TJ Muzzonigro, Tufts
Michael Keffer, Wyanesburg
2013 Seniors (1) (FBS: 0 FCS: 0 D2: 0 D3: 0 )
Chris Szelong, John Caroll
2014 Seniors (10) (FBS: 3 FCS: 1 D2: 3 D3: 2 JuCo: 1 Other: 1 )
Ben DiNucci, Pitt
Diondre Gaston, Juco
Matt Zoeller, Clarion
Jake Goode, Clarion
John Kohley, Dayton
Connor Slomka, Army
Brenden Burnham (Maryland / Wrestling)
Earnest William, Slippery Rock
Joe English, Kent State
Luke Everett, Juniata
2015 Seniors (8) (FBS: 1 FCS: 3 D2: 2 D3: 2 )
Anthony Battaglia, Army
Matt Hamspon, Princeton
Jim Willard, Slippery Rock
Joey Joy, Westminster
Jimmy Graf, Westminster
Don Bryant, Mercyhurst
Tom Jurkovec, Duquesne
Jacob Gill, Duquesne
2016 Seniors (5) (FBS: 3 FCS: 2 D2: 0 D3: 0 )
Ryan Duran, Army
Neiman Novitski, Kent State
Tanner Douglass, Lamar
Mark Weideman, Duquesne
Grant Carrigan, Pitt
2017 Seniors (6) (FBS: 1 FCS: 1 D2: 1 D3: 1 JuCo: 1 Other: 1)
Phil Jurkovec, ND
Ray Falcone, Lehigh
Kenny White, JuCo
Jordan Crawford, Slippery Rock
Dawson Golts (Highpoint, LAX)
Vito Orsini, Marietta
2018 Seniors (9) (FBS: 3 FCS: 3 D2: 0 D3: 3 )
Andrew Kristofic, ND
Mike Katic, Indiana
Tyler King, Navy
Mike Dorundo, Duquesne
Anthony Cerminara, Dayton
Shayne Cafardi, Allegheny
Ben McGregor, Westminster
Dylan Stenson, Youngstown
Merrick Miller, Denison
2019 Seniors (6) (FBS: 1 FCS: 3 D2: 1 D3: 1 )
Seth Bolin, Duquesne
Levi Wentz, Old Dominion
Nevin Novitski, Mercyhurst
Chance Boyd, John Carrol
Trent Miller, Valparaiso
Ethan O’Neil, Duquesne
2020 Seniors (11) (FBS: 4 FCS: 3 D2: 0 D3: 3 Other: 1 )
Harrison Hayes, Liberty
Miguel Jackson, Charlotte
Luke Miller, Kent State
Eli Jochem, Indiana
Cole Spencer (Penn, Wrestling)
Sam Neill, Duquesne
Charlie Mill, Elon
Jordan Burns, Westminster
Roman Dunlap, W & J
Zach Waryanka, John Carrol
John Swisher, Duquesne
2021 Seniors (6) (FBS: 2 FCS: 3 D2: 1 D3: 0 )
Jeremiah Hasley, Duke
Cole Boyd, Marist
Alex Gochis, Duquesne
Connor Lenz, Duquesne
Jalen Klemm, Kansas State
Jacob Domer, Clarion
2022 Seniors (4) (FBS: 1 FCS: 2 D2: 1 D3: )
Jacob Beam (Best Offer: Marshall)
Max Heckert (Best Offer: Marist)
Ryan Palmeiri (Best Offer: None)
Isaiah Kerns (Best Offer: Clarion)
Andrew Mellis (Best Offer: Dayton)
Brady Carrigan (Best Offer: None)
John Rottinghaus (Best Offer: None)
2023 Seniors (1) (FBS: 1 FCS: 0 D2: 0 D3: )
Ryan Cory (Best Offer: Oregon)
wow- very impressive work!!! So, going from '12 to '21, an even 10 years, that's 71 kids, that's pretty friggin impressive, even tho many are d2/3 and walk-ons, still cool, impressive opportunities.
But... i gotta say, the "story is not yet over." I'm gonna stick w my argument, that there is not a big difference between the best teams.
So, this year and next year, if you add 3 or 4 more kids- this 2022 team could have 13-15 kids playing college football. Obviously no "Phil" but, based your #s that would the same as 2017 team. So, each "state final team" has pretty similar talent. All 8 of the 2022 -2023 seniors are gonna play college football- the following "younger" additional kids "could / might:"
Pillar, Smith, Andrews, Little Heckert, Little Cerm, Cunningham, Nindl (the next really good lineman)
could be as many as 15- similar to the other teams (2014, 2017, 2020) and maybe even 2003- if you consider an MLB player!!
But... i gotta say, the "story is not yet over." I'm gonna stick w my argument, that there is not a big difference between the best teams.
So, this year and next year, if you add 3 or 4 more kids- this 2022 team could have 13-15 kids playing college football. Obviously no "Phil" but, based your #s that would the same as 2017 team. So, each "state final team" has pretty similar talent. All 8 of the 2022 -2023 seniors are gonna play college football- the following "younger" additional kids "could / might:"
Pillar, Smith, Andrews, Little Heckert, Little Cerm, Cunningham, Nindl (the next really good lineman)
could be as many as 15- similar to the other teams (2014, 2017, 2020) and maybe even 2003- if you consider an MLB player!!
sadly, unlikely, but he has other interest, including Duquesne- and there's gonna be lotsa scouts who watch the final game and film- imo he could earn s/t bigger, maybe PWO from a MAC school- there's gonna be 15-20 total D1 kids playing in that game w Tep!! Beam is good- and friggin big- but might be a kid that gets screwed w limited college spots
I'm not really interested in the resumes of individual players when evaluating teams, I just go by what I see on the field. Why waste time tracking down college offers, watch the team play. This Pine-Richland team looks and plays as well and dominant as any PR team I have seen in the past 10 years. They just handled an Imhotep Charter team that has 11 players with D1 offers right now! Many of them to Power 5 schools. Who cares? The better team won. Just like Mt. Lebanon vs. St. Joe's last year.
huge win for them
they have to be one of the more unlikely state champs after their slow start, but i would rank them last among their recent state title/finalist teams, their schedule was easily the weakest
this is my rankings
2017
2014
2020
2022
they would beat Penn Trafford last year
Damn I’m still pissed about that 2012 team to this day lmao. Lost to freaking butler to miss the playoffs with all that size and talent(baranowski missed significant time w injury) . That’s when you knew it was time to move on from altemus. I think pr could’ve been contending even sooner had coach k been able to take over when he initially got there.
wow, jacky- you sure are a long-time pr fan!!
how about 2022!?! Pretty dang impressive, huh? They kinda made imotep look stupid!! That game could have easily been 21-7 at half, maybe mercy rule in second half. Sure hope the train keeps rolling- can and should do well next year, justa matter of "how well"
the cupboard is not bare!! imo the biggest need is a good center- our 3 state titles we had dorundo and kernsx2. I could see Smith moving to center, kid named Petzuk at guard and we need 2 tackles- have about 2-3 good options there
Lots of options at qb- huffman and spencer return, but my choice would be a rising junior Ryan Beam
and wow- Cory? So good, he made several "power 5" imotep kids looks kinda bad- not sure how high his rankings will go, but wow he's good
Me, you and Jacky know the centers. LoL
The rest of the state knows DiNucci, Jurkovec, Spencer and Palmeiri. I would like to see more of all those kids you mention. I thought Huffman played better before he got hurt. But that worked out ok for PR. Didn't see enough of Spencer, but seemed like a better runner than passer. And haven't seen Beam at all.
Will have to wait until spring I guess!
The rest of the state knows DiNucci, Jurkovec, Spencer and Palmeiri. I would like to see more of all those kids you mention. I thought Huffman played better before he got hurt. But that worked out ok for PR. Didn't see enough of Spencer, but seemed like a better runner than passer. And haven't seen Beam at all.
Will have to wait until spring I guess!
is he or is that just what he says publicly? did he have a ton of interaction with them considering they were freshman and sophomores when he was there?
i wonder if he stayed would they still have won? he might have kept his son at quarterback instead of Palmieri who was a major difference maker for this team at QB
BP: Kerns started for him at C and Beam also played a ton on offense. Palmeiri and Heckert were on a lot of the specials teams IIRC. There were only about 5-6 sophomore on the 2020 team.
Could be on the QB thing. From my watching of Mars and P-R this year, he was way better than any of the P-R QB besides Palmeiri. That would have been an interesting situation, at the start of the year for sure.
Could be on the QB thing. From my watching of Mars and P-R this year, he was way better than any of the P-R QB besides Palmeiri. That would have been an interesting situation, at the start of the year for sure.
One thing to keep in mind when looking at college resumes to evaluate talent between eras. We are in a totally different world the last 2 years. We essentially have free agency in college sports now, with thousands of players entering the transfer portal each year. And all players who were on a roster in 2020 get a 5th year if they want it. These two factors have had an enormous impact on seniors looking for offers. There are many kids who would have had D1 offers in the past who are struggling to even get D2 offers.