2015: Imhotep VS Central Catholic

[BradlyPitt]

I’m sorry to “burst your bubble”, but anytime those Woody high teams would go up against teams that actually had a disciplined defense, they would crumble. They could run all over cupcakes, but when they went up against teams that were competent (2000 Lebo, 2001 Neshaminy, 2002 parkland), they score a whopping 32 points across 3 games.

This would not go over well if any of those woody high teams played 2012 NA. Check the numbers… 140 points allowed over 16 games. Avg 8.75 points against per game. Arguably the greatest defense in WPIAL history

Also, as the old saying goes: “the best ability is availability” it’s unfortunate, but injuries do affect greatness

the 3 teams you named were a little better than just "competent"

trust me those Woody High teams were better than the teams your Tigers barely beat, timing and competition matters

and yes injuries do affect greatness, they were very beat up in 2009 and lost to State College, that team was absolutely better than the 2010 team as they lost several D1 kids but still played your Tigers within 1 Td

 

[BradlyPitt]

I’d add on that the # of D1 players really doesn’t give you the full picture. Obviously they help, but you also need coaching and good roll players. For example, take the Pine-Richland/Imhotep state championship. Imhotep had the clear advantage in high level college guys, but Pine was clearly the better team.

but would anybody call PR last year one of the better teams we have seen?

no they say 2017 was better, why???? because they had a lot of talent

sorry I am not going to agree with 2006 USC being one of the better teams when their best player Dane Conwell couldn't get in the field at Cal U of Pa, and their 2nd best player Pat Mcshane "retired" the day they won in Hershey

 

[northalleghenytiger]

wow... tiger, ugh, no one can make a statement like that- 140 points? Best defense ever in the wpial?? no way, sorry- i recall many schools in the 80s that allowed 30, 40, 50 total points, and there is the NH that allowed zero? Wow- i am gonna do a quick search.... 2 minutes- just last yr, 6 wpial teams allowed less than 140

wpial has been around for 100 years, 50 years ago may have been the best HS football in the friggin country... we gotta show respect for our history

Which 6 teams?

50 years ago a lot of teams didn’t forward pass, 140 points allowed in a season where passing was prevalent is a crazy feat

 

[northalleghenytiger]

the 3 teams you named were a little better than just "competent"

trust me those Woody High teams were better than the teams your Tigers barely beat, timing and competition matters

and yes injuries do affect greatness, they were very beat up in 2009 and lost to State College, that team was absolutely better than the 2010 team as they lost several D1 kids but still played your Tigers within 1 Td

The 3 teams may have been more than “competent”, but they certainly weren’t world beaters:

2000 Lebo lost 27-0 to North Hills, and lost 24-17 to Mckeesport- I couldn’t find any other games

2001 Neshaminy- allowed 15 points per game, much higher than NA teams

2002 Parkland- allowed 12 points per game, again higher than NA

These teams playing Woodland Hills actually helped their points against per game average LOL

I know people are very nostalgic for this time period in the WPIAL, but not every team from this era is all that great. Woodland Hills was overrated at the time, and for whatever reason they are still overrated now

I could name 20 WPIAL teams right of the top of my head that are better than any of those woody high squads

 

[Vikingofpittsburgh]

but would anybody call PR last year one of the better teams we have seen?

no they say 2017 was better, why???? because they had a lot of talent

sorry I am not going to agree with 2006 USC being one of the better teams when their best player Dane Conwell couldn't get in the field at Cal U of Pa, and their 2nd best player Pat Mcshane "retired" the day they won in Hershey

I would not call last years PR team one of the better ones we’ve seen, but that’s because they lost 3 games and didn’t play at the highest classification.

The 2017 team was better no doubt, but it wasn’t just do to talent. It was do their results on the field. That includes talent, Coaching, attitude, and a whole plethora of other factors. 2017 PR is regarded as one of the greatest due to the fact that they dominated most every team, and they scored 50 points per game.

If talent was the be-all and end-all, 2015 PCC would be in the running for greatest PA team, but do to the mediocre coaching staff, they are not. 2004 will do for now.

 

[Stalker]

I just told you what they told me, don't shoot the messenger

USC played for a WPIAL title last year so maybe the kids in that district are just good athletes and Render isn't some miracle worker

i will have to disagree with you on them being one of the better teams to win a state title in the highest class, I think they were lucky Central Catholic was upset by Penn Hills in the semifinals

Render said Penn Hills was the best team they played, well they were young that year and expected to be better in the future but they didn't really come close to winning a WPIAL title in the next years even with Aaron Donald and other D1 kids so I think 2006 was a down year

with better coaching I think Central is back to back state champs in 2006 - 2007

Didn't say they were one of the better teams to win a state title. I said "I really liked them" and "was impressed". Best title team is a whole other topic.
Statistically, they come out strong in margin of wins vs all, margin vs playoff teams. If you link up their wins to who those teams defeated (linkage) you come to a better understanding of parity and balance instead of the knee jerked worn out term 'down year'.
That PHills, NA and McKees had 3 losses each isn't a good measuring stick. State College was a huge win knowing who State beat to get there. Liberty was no slouch with Persa and company. Then link up who all those teams beat. It's work, but it shows the quality involved rather than a simple game score that is too often the least effective way to gage a team, yet most cited.

 

[PowerKP]

So here's one of my favorite topics (which if I'm derailing, I'll just start my own thread): mythical state champions. At some point I'm going to write this as a series (maybe this summer, when I can also finish the big school champs from 2013 on) but I've put some real work into researching who can legimiately claim the "mythical" state titles in the era before the playoff. Here's what I've got (parenthesis are teams I'd hear arguments on):

1950: Butler
1951: Farrell
1952: Allentown (Aliquippa)
1953: Har-Brack (Donora)
1954: Bellwood-Antis
1955: Aliquippa (LaSalle)
1956: Jeannette
1957: Wilkinsburg (LaSalle)
1958: Easton (Central Dauphin)
1959: Lancaster (Chaleroi)

1960: Beaver Falls
1961: Monessen (Beaver Falls)
1962: John Harris
1963: Neshaminy (West Mifflin North)
1964: Pittsburgh Central Catholic (Neshaminy)
1965: Uniontown (John Harris)
1966: John Harris
1967: John Harris (New Castle)
1968: Easton
1969: Mount Carmel

1970: Mount Lebanon
1971: Neshaminy (Kiski Area)
1972: Gateway (Pennsbury/St. James)
1973: State College
1974: Pennsbury
1975: New Castle (Upper St. Clair)
1976: Penn Hills
1977: Penn Hills
1978: Penn Hills (Steelton-Highspire/CB West)
1979: Penn Hills (Dieruff - depending on how you feel about Penn Hills getting their title stripped)

1980: CB West
1981: Mount Lebanon
1982: Cumberland Valley (impossible year)
1983: Berwick
1984: CB West
1985: CB West
1986: Gateway (CB West)
1987: North Hills (CB West)

Based on what I've researched, I'd think Andy Urbanic, Lindy Lauro, and Pete Antimarino would be names to throw in the mix for WPIAL Mount Rushmores in their eras.

RoverNation, some "food for thought" for ya..... (all top picks are "mythical", there are no right/wrong answers!) PS: Yes, we're sorting them BY ENROLLMENT!

A few of us have been working diligently on such a project, and we have pretty thorough data from 1890-1949 that can be found at the links below. We'll be starting the 1950's next! (PS: Let me know if you have trouble accessing the links!)

https://pasportsboard.proboards.com/thread/249/mythical-state-football-champs-pa
https://pasportsboard.proboards.com/thread/256/1920s-scholastic-football-champs-mythical?page=1
https://pasportsboard.proboards.com/thread/306/1930s-scholastic-football-champs-mythical?page=1
https://pasportsboard.proboards.com/thread/1026/1940s-scholastic-football-champs-mythical?page=1

PS: You can also access the info on Facebook @Hitman's PA H.S. Football History Huddle! (It won't let me post the actual Facebook link, but you can do a search if you have an account there)

PPS: We'll be trying to reach Twitter sometime soon as well!


BTW, I look forward to seeing your picks.....it's about time we drummed up interest again for this topic!

 

[2020sports]

The 3 teams may have been more than “competent”, but they certainly weren’t world beaters:

2000 Lebo lost 27-0 to North Hills, and lost 24-17 to Mckeesport- I couldn’t find any other games

2001 Neshaminy- allowed 15 points per game, much higher than NA teams

2002 Parkland- allowed 12 points per game, again higher than NA

These teams playing Woodland Hills actually helped their points against per game average LOL

I know people are very nostalgic for this time period in the WPIAL, but not every team from this era is all that great. Woodland Hills was overrated at the time, and for whatever reason they are still overrated now

I could name 20 WPIAL teams right of the top of my head that are better than any of those woody high squads

tiger- i read this post last week and was confused, I was not sure how to respond- so i did some digging- i watched those teams closely, back then, i recall thinking how Woody was really impressive- u might be the first person- maybe only person that has said those teams were not that good, or "overrated."

From 1999 to 2002, WH won 3 of 4 WPIAL titles, in the biggest classification- that is really impressive. AND they made it to 2 consecutive PIAA title games, runner-ups- also very impressive. One of very few teams to have EVER made 2 consecutive football state finals in biggest classification.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

tiger- i read this post last week and was confused, I was not sure how to respond- so i did some digging- i watched those teams closely, back then, i recall thinking how Woody was really impressive- u might be the first person- maybe only person that has said those teams were not that good, or "overrated."

From 1999 to 2002, WH won 3 of 4 WPIAL titles, in the biggest classification- that is really impressive. AND they made it to 2 consecutive PIAA title games, runner-ups- also very impressive. One of very few teams to have EVER made 2 consecutive football state finals in biggest classification.

I agree that they were a really good team, but you can be really good AND overrated at the same time.

For an extreme example, if i said 2012 NA was amongst the greatest teams in USA high school history, you would say they are overrated. It’s really all about perspective

That’s why I think Woodland Hills is overrated. Gotta win state to be considered one of the best wpial teams ever

 

[2020sports]

I agree that they were a really good team, but you can be really good AND overrated at the same time.

For an extreme example, if i said 2012 NA was amongst the greatest teams in USA high school history, you would say they are overrated. It’s really all about perspective

That’s why I think Woodland Hills is overrated. Gotta win state to be considered one of the best wpial teams ever

yep- i hear ya

IMO, it is just so difficult, to compare teams from different eras (ie greatest of all time), with different size schools- so many, maybe too many variables- funding, population, post-season and "championship" formats and criteria. And, esp prior to 1988, not having a state title, that kinda "changed" the emphasis on "winning" the WPIAL. too difficult to say that a team from the 50s is "not as good" as Thomas Jefferson or Archbishop Wood, from the last 10-20 years- just so different now from then. this might be extreme, but I view it as kinda disrespectful if an awesome team from the 40s or 50s, may seem "forgotten" cuz the state playoffs did not exist back then.

And, in fairness to NA from 2012, they did win 2 out of 3 state titles- pretty friggin impressive!

 

[Stalker]

I don't get the inclination of some of you west guys to find fault in WPIAL and State champions. Saying they were "overrated", that they were the "worst champion", that they were "really good....but overrated!*?"

What the hell is that all about? You're trying to put too fine a point on it instead of enjoying what they brought to the table that was CLEARLY championship football.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

yep- i hear ya

IMO, it is just so difficult, to compare teams from different eras (ie greatest of all time), with different size schools- so many, maybe too many variables- funding, population, post-season and "championship" formats and criteria. And, esp prior to 1988, not having a state title, that kinda "changed" the emphasis on "winning" the WPIAL. too difficult to say that a team from the 50s is "not as good" as Thomas Jefferson or Archbishop Wood, from the last 10-20 years- just so different now from then. this might be extreme, but I view it as kinda disrespectful if an awesome team from the 40s or 50s, may seem "forgotten" cuz the state playoffs did not exist back then.

And, in fairness to NA from 2012, they did win 2 out of 3 state titles- pretty friggin impressive!

yep- i hear ya

IMO, it is just so difficult, to compare teams from different eras (ie greatest of all time), with different size schools- so many, maybe too many variables- funding, population, post-season and "championship" formats and criteria. And, esp prior to 1988, not having a state title, that kinda "changed" the emphasis on "winning" the WPIAL. too difficult to say that a team from the 50s is "not as good" as Thomas Jefferson or Archbishop Wood, from the last 10-20 years- just so different now from then. this might be extreme, but I view it as kinda disrespectful if an awesome team from the 40s or 50s, may seem "forgotten" cuz the state playoffs did not exist back then.

And, in fairness to NA from 2012, they did win 2 out of 3 state titles- pretty friggin impressive!

Yeah agree, but the sad reality is there’s seldom film from these games, which may lead to apathy

YES, EXACTLY, those NA teams were super impressive. Yet so many lists on this board and on twitter have the MOST random teams above them. So I’m left scratching my head

 

[northalleghenytiger]

I don't get the inclination of some of you west guys to find fault in WPIAL and State champions. Saying they were "overrated", that they were the "worst champion", that they were "really good....but overrated!*?"

What the hell is that all about? You're trying to put too fine a point on it instead of enjoying what they brought to the table that was CLEARLY championship football.

Sorry but I don’t know WTF is going on. I’ve been reading to many lists having some random woodland high team above NA teams

I don’t know if NA reign was DIRECTLY before SJP dominance that’s making people forget about them, but i have to take a stand

 

[2020sports]

I don't get the inclination of some of you west guys to find fault in WPIAL and State champions. Saying they were "overrated", that they were the "worst champion", that they were "really good....but overrated!*?"

What the hell is that all about? You're trying to put too fine a point on it instead of enjoying what they brought to the table that was CLEARLY championship football.

Stalk- not me!! totally agree makes no sense to say an "overrated champ"

 

[2020sports]

Sorry but I don’t know WTF is going on. I’ve been reading to many lists having some random woodland high team above NA teams

I don’t know if NA reign was DIRECTLY before SJP dominance that’s making people forget about them, but i have to take a stand

tiger- i really dont know what you're talking about?? might have missed on this site- but if it seems like a dumb list on twitter, then it probably is a dumb list! I will tell u, any criticism i have had is not about the NA teams from 10 years ago, its the recent teams- and again, comparing teams from different HSs, years apart is really too much comparing apples and oranges

 

[RoverNation05]

Actually responding to the prompt at hand - here are the two teams:

Imhotep Charter - 2015
Head Coach: Albie Crosby
Record: 15-0
Points Per Game: 46.8
Points Allowed Per Game: 6.9
Margin of Victory: 39.9
Playoff Margin of Victory: 42.0

Schedule
Gratz: 36-6
St. Frances (MD): 40-16
Boys’ Latin: 54-0
Friendship (DC): 32-14
Mastery North: 46-0
Overbrook: 44-0
Dobbins: 56-8
School of the Future: 40-0
West Philadelphia: 42-0
Dobbins (PPL Semis): 70-0
West Philadelphia (PPL Finals): 64-0
Archbishop Wood (D12 Finals): 20-14
Academy Park (State Quarters): 46-16
Saucon Valley (State Semis): 72-27
Erie Cathedral Prep (State Finals): 40-3
AP All State
Mike Waters (RB - POY), Naseir Upshur (TE), Yasir Durant (OL), Johncarlo Valentin (OL), Shaka Toney (DL), Andre Mintze (DL)
PA Football News All State
Naseir Upshur (TE - 1st), Yasir Durant (OL - 1st), Johncarlo Valentin (OL - 1st/OLOY), Andre Mintz (DL - 1st), Shaka Toney (DL - 1st/DPOY), Mike Waters (RB - 2nd),

Offense
QB: Nasir Boykin (Jr. 6’1 185; Delaware State): 97-156, 2,168 yards, 25 TDs
RB: Mike Waters (Sr. 5’10 190; Delaware State): 160 carries, 1,889 yards, 42 TDs
RB: Tyliek Raynor (Sr. 5’10 190; Temple): 70 carries, 613 yards, 4 TDs
WR: Nasir Lewis (Sr. 6’2 185): 22 catches, 553 yards, 7 TDs
WR: Justin Harris (So. 5’9 170; Delaware Valley): 10 catches, 176 yards, 2 TDs
WR: Aamir Brown (Jr. 5’10 185): 28 catches, 573 yards, 8 TDs
TE: Naseir Upshur (Sr. 6’4 235; Florida State): 24 catches, 625 yards, 5 TDs
LT: Yasir Durant (Sr. 6’7 330; JUCO/Missouri)
LG: Johncarlo Valentin (Sr. 6’4 340; JUCO/Baylor)
C: Brashon McCrae (Jr. 6’1 255; Lincoln)
RG: Jahmir Johnson (Sr. 6’5 275; Rhode Island/JUCO/Tennessee)
RT: Justin Johnson (So. 6’7 345; Oregon)
Defense
DL: Naseir Upshur (Sr. 6’4 235; Florida State)
DL: Shaka Toney (Sr. 6’4 220; Penn State)
DL: Jordan McCray (Sr. 6’2 225; Delaware Valley)
DL: Jalen Denby (Jr. 6’0 345)
DL: Andre Mintze (Sr. 6’3 225; Vanderbilt)
LB: Amin Black (Jr. 5’11 225; Villanova)
LB: Naiheem Santos (Jr. 6’0 210)
LB: Mike Waters (Sr. 5’10 190; Delaware State)
DB: Prince Smith (Sr. 6’0 185; New Hampshire)
DB: Aamir Brown (Jr. 5’10 185)
DB: Isheem Young (So. 5’11 195; Iowa State)
DB: Mike Crawford (Jr. 6’0 185; JUCO/New Hampshire)



Pittsburgh Central Catholic - 2015
Head Coach: Terry Totten
Record: 15-1
Points Per Game: 35.3
Points Allowed Per Game: 10.4
Margin of Victory: 24.8
Margin of Victory (Playoffs): 17.7

Schedule
Bethel Park (7-4): 28-13
Shaler (2-8): 42-6
North Allegheny (9-2): 17-24
Fox Chapel (1-8): 56-0
Connellsville (2-7): 56-7
North Hills (3-7): 52-7
Seneca Valley (5-5): 38-14
Pine-Richland (10-2): 35-28
Butler (1-8): 49-0
Upper St. Clair (5-5): 49-0 (WPIAL First Round)
North Allegheny (9-2): 31-17 (WPIAL Quarterfinals)
Woodland Hills (11-1): 24-6 (WPIAL Semifinals)
Penn-Trafford (12-1): 24-17 (WPIAL Finals)
State College (9-4): 19-3 (State Quarterfinals)
Cumberland Valley (12-3): 24-7 (State Semifinals)
Parkland (14-2): 21-18 (State Finals)
AP All State
Ronnie Jones (RB), Rashad Wheeler (DL), David Adams (LB), Damar Hamlin (DB), Bricen Garner (DB)
PA Football News All State
Damar Hamlin (DB - 1st/DPOY), Rashad Wheeler (DL - 1st), David Adams (LB - 1st), Ronnie Jones (RB - 2nd), Bricen Garner (DB - 2nd), CJ Thorpe (OL - HM), Ron George (LB - HM)

QB: Troy Fisher (So. 6’4 200; Lafayette): 93-168, 1,493 yards, 15 TDs, 3 INTs/127 carries, 546 yards, 15 TDs
RB: Ronnie Jones (Sr. 6’1 195; Toledo): 190 carries, 1,490 yards, 18 TDs
RB: Vinny Emmanuele (Sr. 5’9 195; Ohio): 118 carries, 860 yards, 12 TDs
RB: JJ Younger (Jr. 5’8 160; Lafayette): 41 carries, 408 yards, 5 TDs
WR: Bricen Garner (Sr. 6’2 175; Pitt): 18 catches, 294 yards, 3 TDs
WR: Ron George (Sr. 6’2 215; Western Michigan): 9 catches, 166 yards, 1 TD
WR: Gunner Frerotte (Sr. 5’11 180; William & Mary): 29 catches, 419 yards, 2
TE: Rashad Wheeler (Sr. 6’4 270; Pitt): 1 catch, 12 yards
LT: CJ Thorpe (Jr. 6’4 300; Penn State)
LG: Jake Trautman (Jr. 6’4 245; Fordham)
C: Donovan Slater (Jr. 6’3 285; Yale)
RG: Jake Hinisch (Jr. 6’3 275; Yale)
RT: Kurt Hinisch (Jr. 6’3 280; Notre Dame)
Defense
DE: Rashad Wheeler (Sr. 6’4 270; Pitt)
DT: Kurt Hinisch (Jr. 6’3 280; Notre Dame)
NG: Jaime Stephens (Jr. 6’3 370; Cal PA)
DT: CJ Thorpe (Jr. 6’4 300; Penn State)
DE: David Green (So. 6’2 250; Pitt)
LB: David Adams (Jr. 6’2 230; Notre Dame)
LB: Ron George (Sr. 6’2 215; Western Michigan)
DB: Damar Hamlin (Sr. 6’1 185; Pitt)
DB: Bricen Garner (Sr. 6’2 175; Pitt)
DB: Braxton Swann (Sr. 6’1 195)
DB: Gunner Frerotte (Sr. 5’11 180; William & Mary)

 

[new2pa]

Wow. And Sophomore Jurkovec had them on the ropes in the 4th. Won on a very controversial TD where their QB fumbled at GL and PR recovered but refs called it a TD anyway.

 

[Stalker]

Stalk- not me!! totally agree makes no sense to say an "overrated champ"

To each his own and I didn't mean it in a mean-spirited way. Just curious and frankly weird seeing high school teams demeaned or champions diminished. Rivalries I get. No big deal 2020.

 

[2020sports]

To each his own and I didn't mean it in a mean-spirited way. Just curious and frankly weird seeing high school teams demeaned or champions diminished. Rivalries I get. No big deal 2020.

gotcha, all good

I think there's a couple other folks debating "worst champ ever"

IMO, i even think it's difficult saying "best champ ever" just so many things different now from 50s, 80s, even in the last 20 years, change in playoff formats, levels, 7 on 7 leagues, now we got this new HS NIL stuff, i know im getting older, but it seems like things are changin so fast!!

 

[BradlyPitt]

The 3 teams may have been more than “competent”, but they certainly weren’t world beaters:

2000 Lebo lost 27-0 to North Hills, and lost 24-17 to Mckeesport- I couldn’t find any other games

2001 Neshaminy- allowed 15 points per game, much higher than NA teams

2002 Parkland- allowed 12 points per game, again higher than NA

These teams playing Woodland Hills actually helped their points against per game average LOL

I know people are very nostalgic for this time period in the WPIAL, but not every team from this era is all that great. Woodland Hills was overrated at the time, and for whatever reason they are still overrated now

I could name 20 WPIAL teams right of the top of my head that are better than any of those woody high squads

there have been a lot more bad teams over the past 10 years or so than back then, so scores are inflated

back then a blow out was winning by 4 touchdowns, now it's winning by 8 so i don't care about your stats

how was Woodland Hills overrated with all of their D1 kids and future NFL players? can you really tell me NA's roster looked better? who on those NA teams had a good college career? obviously none sniffed the NFL

go ahead and name the 20 teams, and I will tell you how you are wrong lol

 

[BradlyPitt]

I would not call last years PR team one of the better ones we’ve seen, but that’s because they lost 3 games and didn’t play at the highest classification.

The 2017 team was better no doubt, but it wasn’t just do to talent. It was do their results on the field. That includes talent, Coaching, attitude, and a whole plethora of other factors. 2017 PR is regarded as one of the greatest due to the fact that they dominated most every team, and they scored 50 points per game.

If talent was the be-all and end-all, 2015 PCC would be in the running for greatest PA team, but do to the mediocre coaching staff, they are not. 2004 will do for now.

I don't recall 2006 USC scoring that many points other than the state title game, that's the only reason anybody remembers them, they were lucky to beat Penn Hills and State College and those teams were far from world beaters

also how did 2006 USC become a part of this thread? they would lose to both 2015 Central and Imhotep

 

[BradlyPitt]

I agree that they were a really good team, but you can be really good AND overrated at the same time.

For an extreme example, if i said 2012 NA was amongst the greatest teams in USA high school history, you would say they are overrated. It’s really all about perspective

That’s why I think Woodland Hills is overrated. Gotta win state to be considered one of the best wpial teams ever

i wouldn't rank them the best but they were capable of beating any team in WPIAL history

i would argue the fact that they didn't win the state is why they can't be overrated, most people have the same mentality as you thinking they didn't win the state so that automatically makes every state champ "better" than them

everything went wrong for them against Neshaminy, the field conditions and Breaston getting hurt

2002 against Parkland that team you can argue is overrated, they were easily the worst of their teams from 99 - 2002, i even said then no way they are a top 10 team in the country as they were rated

 

[BradlyPitt]

I don't get the inclination of some of you west guys to find fault in WPIAL and State champions. Saying they were "overrated", that they were the "worst champion", that they were "really good....but overrated!*?"

What the hell is that all about? You're trying to put too fine a point on it instead of enjoying what they brought to the table that was CLEARLY championship football

it's not finding fault, it's an interesting topic of discussion

people discuss this with college and pro teams, why not high school?

 

[Hausmann1978]

I don't get the inclination of some of you west guys to find fault in WPIAL and State champions. Saying they were "overrated", that they were the "worst champion", that they were "really good....but overrated!*?"

What the hell is that all about? You're trying to put too fine a point on it instead of enjoying what they brought to the table that was CLEARLY championship football.

I agree stalker. Well said.