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Win at all costs

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delcofootball1

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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I'm a little disturbed by some recent stories that have surfaced regarding the great sport of high school football in our area. I think it all has to do with this "win at all costs" mentality. I'm not pretending to know the ins and outs of every story as I don't but a few stories have me questioning the ethics of coaches today.

1.Sitting here (real time) witnessing a local high school coach (catholic league) promising the world to the parents of a 5th or 6th grade CYO star at his all star game.
2. Pennridge PSU commit (seems like previous incidents were covered up)
3. Tep star & Wawa (4 months since the crime occurred, school/team/community didn't know about it?)
4. Conwell Egan transfers (players didn't transfer to a school not in the playoffs?)
5. Neumann going from 0 to 56 players overnight (i know del val closed down- all paying tuition?).
6. Ridley LB (speed has discussed this at length)
7. whatever else i've missed, feel free to add.

These problems used to happen in professional football, they then started occurring in college football, now high school. High school used to be free of these problems. It was pure and perfect, but once again I fear that adults have ruined it. It's a shame, for all the bad press there are dozens and dozens of great stories that high school football produces. I don't wish to focus just on the bad but it seems like each year more and more of these stories surface. Where is high school football gonna be in 10/15/20 years?
 
I understand you're a pennridge daddy. Did I miss something? Feel free to correct. Or better yet, make sure the next head coach doesn't sweep problems under the rug for the sake of winning.
 
Throw in academic eligibility. This hasn’t just trickled to high school sports. Unfortunately I’ve personally seen this at the youth levels as well. It seems as though instead of coaching players better, the mindset is it’s easier to just go get better players.
 
It starts very early on in a child's life. Win at all cost!
A great deal of well meaning parents hold children back in school just for better athletics.
So little Johnny is now seven playing against six year olds. Great!

With over six hundred high schools in Penna. and forty plus kids in most programs there are so many great kids playing our sport that makes them better people. Less than 1 % are D1 prospects and out of all the 119 D1 programs in the country less than 1% of them have a career in the pro game.
A career in the NFL is three years!

I know it's impossible but I love the posters who give credit to staffs and players who are doing it right.
There are many, but like TV news, who wants to see good news? Show me the Wawa robber not the boy visiting children's hospital!
 
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Unfortunately I think a great Pennsylvania philosopher from way back quote says it best. “For Who, For What”.
 
On a brighter note, sometimes a school raids surrounding schools of talented QBs, sometimes parents even sign over custody so their kids can play there, but they still have never beaten NP.
 
I still believe Public schools should be able to recruit if they have room in their schools and with declining enrollments in this state that should be know problem. Those students from outside school districts would still have pay tuition, but for a lot of schools parent organizations would have know problem raising scholarship money for top athletes. This would end all arguments about Public/private
 
@delcofootball1, you like hearing yourself talk I get it... the "psu" recuit, as you put it.. is a great kid, great leader, and person and the things he did that were "swept under the rug" as you also stated were resolved and quite frankly didn't have any affiliation with the high school or even the city so please stop looking for attention you're ignorant. I don't think the other things you mentioned are warranted either who are you to say all this crap it's ridiculous get a life Man. How about being constructive? high school football doesn't care what you think you're a nobody. From what I hear, Pennridge's late Jeff Hollenbach is a great man, a Christian, and has done great things for boys on his teams and the community. I can't stand people like you... who just talk shit for the sake of talking shit no real facts you should feel embarrassed.
 
also it's the administration that handles diliquent behavior and consequences not the coach When it comes to suspensions etc I'm done arguing with you is literally like talking to a 9 year old
 
Ok dude. I sure hope you're a teenager or something. I also hope you are not a person who leads young men- nothing I said was made up. In fact I asked for people's input to supplement the stories. I was told, by someone in the know, that the pennridge coach/admin was known for sweeping things under the rug. Maybe that's not the case, I'm sure the kid is a great kid and made a mistake, and I wish him the best. I think adults in his life, along with many of these other incidents did them wrong or at least weren't proper role models. They made their decision based on wins. You have your opinions, I have mine.
 
Do you go around asking every programs "sources" what the scoop is on individual players and their problems? Egan, Neumann, whoever else you posted above? Just stop man you're in the wrong for even putting anyone on blast in the 1st place who are your sources? Is it the admin? Or anyone on the staff? Then shut the (bleep) up
 
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Do you have any children on any of these teams? Do you even have any connection or affiliation? Or just som disgruntled old man who doesn't know shit? Just a fan boy who posts about parents children on forums like a weirdo... like My first post said, get a life!
 
You can insult and guess, still waiting for something concrete to offer. The teams im affiliated with, I know the coaches follow rules and hold their players to the highest of standards. In fact, the one program in Delco had a player taken home by the cops for not leaving a local fast food restaurant last year. Not charged with anything but was disrespectful and had the schools gear on. A starter on both sides, suspended for 4 games by that staff. It was the kids first offense. That team definitely sacrificed some wins in that scenario but the kid and his teammates are better off for it. They learned your actions have consequences. Not sure that being taught everywhere. Please reread- I'm calling adults (coaches and admin) out, not players. Teenagers make mistakes.
 
Delco what did you do to elite. I’m new to the board, sounds like this may not be the first confrontation.
 
Finally, in between watching terrible state championship games and fighting traffic in Delaware County around Christmas time I was able to do a little more research on this topic. After making my way through their first 30 players on Neumann's current roster I stopped my research, this is what I found. Of the first 30, 3 were considered freshman this year.

14 kids were at another school before goretti, 19 including the kids who came from Del Val.

For 3 of those 14 players Neumann is their third high school.

Schools transferred from (according to their hudl accounts): smyrna (de), mcdevitt, cheltenham, west catholic, malvern and ben franklin. I'm sure Albie sympathizers will have stories for each of these kids but I really don't care. 50% of the roster I researched played at a different high school the year before, that is an absolute joke and is yet another example of coaches/adults "winning at all costs." This information is rather disheartening and it makes me wonder how many more will follow?
 
I think you you should win at all cost . Which Miami Hurricanes team do you remember the Jimmy Johnson Hurricanes or the Randy Shannon hurricanes
 
delcofootball1 said:
Finally, in between watching terrible state championship games and fighting traffic in Delaware County around Christmas time I was able to do a little more research on this topic. After making my way through their first 30 players on Neumann's current roster I stopped my research, this is what I found. Of the first 30, 3 were considered freshman this year.

14 kids were at another school before goretti, 19 including the kids who came from Del Val.

For 3 of those 14 players Neumann is their third high school.

Schools transferred from (according to their hudl accounts): smyrna (de), mcdevitt, cheltenham, west catholic, malvern and ben franklin. I'm sure Albie sympathizers will have stories for each of these kids but I really don't care. 50% of the roster I researched played at a different high school the year before, that is an absolute joke and is yet another example of coaches/adults "winning at all costs." This information is rather disheartening and it makes me wonder how many more will follow?
Click to expand...

Delco,

Which player on NG's roster was from West Catholic? I'm drawing a blank. Send me an e-mail @ teddycat10@aol.com
 
00shoe said:
I still believe Public schools should be able to recruit if they have room in their schools and with declining enrollments in this state that should be know problem. Those students from outside school districts would still have pay tuition, but for a lot of schools parent organizations would have know problem raising scholarship money for top athletes. This would end all arguments about Public/private
Click to expand...
00shoe,

If a student lived in say, the Pennridge school district and transferred to North Penn, would the tuition be commensurate to what it would cost if that student went to a Wood, or Father Judge? Are tuition's for outside the district transfers different depending on district or are they around the same?
 
Per pupil spending for NP is $14,820. For Wood tuition is $6200. Philadelphia Archdiocese, which is financially strapped, which means less educational programs, AP classes, less educational support for special education students, less technology in the classrooms etc.... lotta have not's, but like in life you get what you pay for.
 
district1elite said:
Do you go around asking every programs "sources" what the scoop is on individual players and their problems? Egan, Neumann, whoever else you posted above? Just stop man you're in the wrong for even putting anyone on blast in the 1st place who are your sources? Is it the admin? Or anyone on the staff? Then shut the (bleep) up
Click to expand...
I can only comment from what I've seen in the 6 or 7 games in the 3 years I saw him play, the young man is one of the best defensive players in the SOL History. Will make a great switch to Defensive Line at Penn State, in my opinion was not used enough on offense, but in the 6 or 7 games I saw him commit numerous unsportsmanlike penalties and late hits. Not actually the choir boy from a far that you play him out to be. He's young. I'm hoping he can get the discipline and structure at Penn State that was lacking at Ridge so he can fulfill his potential as a student-athlete.
 
Burrs5 said:
Delco,

Which player on NG's roster was from West Catholic? I'm drawing a blank. Send me an e-mail @ teddycat10@aol.com
Click to expand...
Burrs,

I simply used hudl and clicked on the kids names. For 19 of them multiple schools popped up. The player in question was a mistake on my part as I saw two schools listed. However, He went from neumann to west not the other way around.
 
SOL#1 said:
Per pupil spending for NP is $14,820. For Wood tuition is $6200. Philadelphia Archdiocese, which is financially strapped, which means less educational programs, AP classes, less educational support for special education students, less technology in the classrooms etc.... lotta have not's, but like in life you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...
I don't know the exact per pupil dollar at Wood, but it's greater than $6200, I know you are basing that on the tuition cost, however you are forgetting the huge "activities fee" and the contribution that the students parish has to contribute to the high school.
 
delcofootball1 said:
Burrs,

I simply used hudl and clicked on the kids names. For 19 of them multiple schools popped up. The player in question was a mistake on my part as I saw two schools listed. However, He went from neumann to west not the other way around.
Click to expand...

Ok. Send me an e-mail anyway. Thanks.
 
coach1378 said:
I don't know the exact per pupil dollar at Wood, but it's greater than $6200, I know you are basing that on the tuition cost, however you are forgetting the huge "activities fee" and the contribution that the students parish has to contribute to the high school.
Click to expand...
You are correct Coach....
SOL - does not have a clue about what he is talking about....
but like most of his posts....he always displays his ignorance BRILLANTLY
about football or in general, most topics!
Wood tuition is $7,800.00 per year PLUS a $1,400.00 activity fee PLUS a $1,400.00 fee paid by the student's parish........ so that's $10,600.00 per student, that WOOD gets for a school year!
 
SOL#1 said:
but in the 6 or 7 games I saw him commit numerous unsportsmanlike penalties and late hits. Not actually the choir boy from a far that you play him out to be. He's young. I'm hoping he can get the discipline and structure at Penn State that was lacking at Ridge so he can fulfill his potential as a student-athlete.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure this post is even necessary, but if "we" are willing to be critical of particular players maybe we should be as willing to defend them, as well. I don't know Nick (we all know who these comments are in reference to), but I see him in church with his family and he is a weekly volunteer at the local food bank, contributing to his community. Does that mean he doesn't play with an edge on the football field? No, of course not, but it certainly speaks for his character and the presence of "discipline and structure" in his home life. I wasn't in the weight room when this event took place, and some of the stories from that day do not sound good, but the school, the coaches and his teammates were willing to put it behind them. Maybe we should do the same.
 
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delcofootball1 said:
I'm a little disturbed by some recent stories that have surfaced regarding the great sport of high school football in our area. I think it all has to do with this "win at all costs" mentality. I'm not pretending to know the ins and outs of every story as I don't but a few stories have me questioning the ethics of coaches today.

1.Sitting here (real time) witnessing a local high school coach (catholic league) promising the world to the parents of a 5th or 6th grade CYO star at his all star game.
2. Pennridge PSU commit (seems like previous incidents were covered up)
3. Tep star & Wawa (4 months since the crime occurred, school/team/community didn't know about it?)
4. Conwell Egan transfers (players didn't transfer to a school not in the playoffs?)
5. Neumann going from 0 to 56 players overnight (i know del val closed down- all paying tuition?).
6. Ridley LB (speed has discussed this at length)
7. whatever else i've missed, feel free to add.

These problems used to happen in professional football, they then started occurring in college football, now high school. High school used to be free of these problems. It was pure and perfect, but once again I fear that adults have ruined it. It's a shame, for all the bad press there are dozens and dozens of great stories that high school football produces. I don't wish to focus just on the bad but it seems like each year more and more of these stories surface. Where is high school football gonna be in 10/15/20 years?
Click to expand...

Egan transfer just the tip of the iceberg. Hearing rumors of things happening there way worse than that transfer. Stay tuned..
 
There are and have been schools that are public "tuition" schools. So, if the kid wanted to transfer from Pennridge to NPenn, and the average real estate/school tax per home in NPenn is the $14, 820, then the Pennridge kid would be charged that figure as "tuition" if NPenn was a tuition school. This in essence keeps the locals happy since the kid is paying the same fair share in taxes as everyone else. The kid is NOT actually required to move-he could commute from Pennridge.

Im not sure how many tuition schools are left in the area. I know years ago that Strath Haven was. When the old St James High School closed down, they got a handful of very good athletes in as tuition kids. Im not sure if they still have this program.
 
newman107 said:
I'm not sure this post is even necessary, but if "we" are willing to be critical of particular players maybe we should be as willing to defend them, as well. I don't know Nick (we all know who these comments are in reference to), but I see him in church with his family and he is a weekly volunteer at the local food bank, contributing to his community. Does that mean he doesn't play with an edge on the football field? No, of course not, but it certainly speaks for his character and the presence of "discipline and structure" in his home life. I wasn't in the weight room when this event took place, and some of the stories from that day do not sound good, but the school, the coaches and his teammates were willing to put it behind them. Maybe we should do the same.
Click to expand...

I agree, my original post was just that the adults in high school football are doing a disservice to the young athletes. That's all. Didn't want to attack individual players. Like I said, people and kids especially, make mistakes. They need guidance, I'm not sure that guidance is at the level it should be. I hope all the players discussed on this board become great college athletes and more importantly, great people.
 
SPEED&JUMP DR. said:
There are and have been schools that are public "tuition" schools. So, if the kid wanted to transfer from Pennridge to NPenn, and the average real estate/school tax per home in NPenn is the $14, 820, then the Pennridge kid would be charged that figure as "tuition" if NPenn was a tuition school. This in essence keeps the locals happy since the kid is paying the same fair share in taxes as everyone else. The kid is NOT actually required to move-he could commute from Pennridge.

Im not sure how many tuition schools are left in the area. I know years ago that Strath Haven was. When the old St James High School closed down, they got a handful of very good athletes in as tuition kids. Im not sure if they still have this program.
Click to expand...
Speed - this makes for good conversation and with demos changing, could possibly happen sooner than later. I looked into it a few years back for a child with unique needs ... if District A is $14,000 per pupil and district B is $12,000 per pupil and the student wants or needs district A, then the transfer takes place and the family makes up the $2k delta with a $12k transfer from one district to another. Frankly, I think it's needed in this state or a version of clustering, which governor Randel suggested to minimize school expenses and taxes. The competition would be mutually beneficial for education and athletics. I'm not here to bash teachers, but some of these superintendents make in excess of a quarter million dollars a year and administrators well over six figures. In the end, I rented an apartment in the adjacent school district and simply sent my son there. He was not an athlete but a kid with certain needs.
 
FBU82 said:
You are correct Coach....
SOL - does not have a clue about what he is talking about....
but like most of his posts....he always displays his ignorance BRILLANTLY
about football or in general, most topics!
Wood tuition is $7,800.00 per year PLUS a $1,400.00 activity fee PLUS a $1,400.00 fee paid by the student's parish........ so that's $10,600.00 per student, that WOOD gets for a school year!
Click to expand...
FBU82..you are correct.. plus you also have to include the school taxes the parents are paying for whatever district they live in..so i's a double whammy... I live in NP school district.. my kids go to a catholic HS so in addition to school tuition we also still have to pay our local school taxes
 
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green_beans said:
FBU82..you are correct.. plus you also have to include the school taxes the parents are paying for whatever district they live in..so i's a double whammy... I live in NP school district.. my kids go to a catholic HS so in addition to school tuition we also still have to pay our local school taxes
Click to expand...
Yes BEANS agreed......and that is a whole other conversation! Maybe Catholic Schools should file as Charter schools and have ALL THAT school tax money follow them to their Catholic school - NOW wouldn't that be special - certain rules for certain people but not all people - explain that one to me? SMH
 
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FBU82 said:
Yes BEANS agreed......and that is a whole other conversation! Maybe Catholic Schools should file as Charter schools and have ALL THAT school tax money follow them to their Catholic school - NOW wouldn't that be special - certain rules for certain people but not all people - explain that one to me? SMH
Click to expand...
I expected to hear from you FBU during the great season Wood had this year. Anyway,glad you still post. BTW,Im in remission and on chemo.
 
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