Prep- CY
- Thread starter Bighead75
- Start date
R - I’ve been asking myself same question since mid third quarter - I think it has to do with the limited games that prep has played and the fact that some records for McCord and Harrison were attainable. I realize it’s a team game, but it was so close to not try? CY is a very good team, it’s scary what Prep is.
That must have been the reason, Roxy. I think the fact that McCord missed four games at the end of last year and only played six games this year made the records all the more remarkable. Still, I'm inclined to think the better decision would have been to put in the backups midway through the third quarter.
The was an extraordinary senior class, and I think we've all known since they were sophomores that we almost certainly won't see another class near to it in talent.
I'm still thinking that the level of football played, at least at 6A, has declined in recent years and that the Prep is not the reason or at least the main reason. Neshaminy and PCC in '13, Parkland and P-R in '14, North Penn in '16, Coatesville and P-R in '17 were all a lot better than the three teams the Prep has beaten in the final the last three years--especially along the line of scrimmage. I wonder what others think. CY, like Harrisburg a couple of years ago, had some very good players at "skill positions" but their lines were no match for the Prep's.
Tulla - I actually thought CY was a very good football team, but I must admit that this prep team is the best I’ve ever seen or will see. I think it’s a larger reflection on how good this team was. I also think having players play on both sides of the ball takes a toll and the fact that prep doesn’t do that is a huge advantage.
When will the PIAA address teams like Prep? Pretty ridiculous that half their roster is from NJ/DE. A lot of people complain of the lack of talent in this state when it comes to high school football. Maybe we can address the amount of kids that get stolen by prep type of schools first. To me it seems more special to win a state with the kids you got and not go out and make a “dream team”. Something has to change because I’m getting tired of watching Prep or Wood win tittle after tittle
Keep it simple, they are not limited to a boundary, this discussion has been done a million times. There isn’t a student in the school from DE. Prep has had students from NJ for almost 70 years. Frankly, the majority of their playmakers are from the city. The reality is that they are well coached and that makes a difference. Prep was the only CL school to win this year, so the Wood commentary is a matter of the past. Prep has no fields and a very modest weight room. It’s not a glamorous place to play ball and the school work must be done. Hate away, it is what it is.
Well, Wood is now in 6A, thanks to the PIAA, and looks as if would have a hard time coming anywhere close to a state title even if it were still in 5A. Last year's state title was very freaky.
The Prep has NO players from DE, and as far as I know has had only two in the last ten years, Armen Ware, whose family moved from Philly to DE when he started high school in, I think, 2010, and a guy named Chambers who played one year for the Prep as a freshman in 2011 or 2012. But why let facts get in the way?
As for Jersey, nowhere near half the Prep team is from there. They have about the same proportion of Jersey kids on the team as they've always had--a proportion in line with the proportion of students in the school who come from Jersey--roughly 20%.
The idea that the Prep or other Catholic/private schools "steal" kids from public schools seems based in a notion that kids "belong" to their nearest public school. No one is arguing that schools without boundaries have an advantage. But, though many seem blind to the fact, there are disadvantages in the Prep's situation as well. If you want, I can list a few of them.
Congrats to SJP! That senior class is a once in a lifetime type of class. Wow they are amazing. Also congrats to Central York on a heck of a season.
Do the advantages at SJP outweigh the disadvantages? Of course. Do the 6A boundary schools need to “step up” their game? Hell yes. As we’ve discussed before, the true answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
Do the advantages at SJP outweigh the disadvantages? Of course. Do the 6A boundary schools need to “step up” their game? Hell yes. As we’ve discussed before, the true answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
Beating Drew Gordon’s all time city record I believe was the goal at that point.
Prep is just that good and I believe Central York would have beat. Pgh CC if Covid did not make them exit the tourney. Their qb did not have his best game but that’s what great defenses do to you. I’ve said this for years, preps online has the size but phenomenal technique. Other than my man 65 who got called for 3 penalties in a row. Ha! They were not even in mid season form with this being game 6 for them.
Soup I should have mentioned in my comments that SJP is exceptionally well coached. Again, do they have more talent than anyone in the state this year? Yes (probably considerably more.) But, that doesn’t change the fact that their coaching staff does a remarkable job. Again congrats to both SJP and CY on great seasons.
Agree...I also think Prep has the best online coaches in the state if not in the country which helps.
St.joe prep is not a PIAA problem but a problem for the PCL. They are not the cause of the demise of HS football in Pennsylvania in the last 15 years.
Watching CY last night for 18 minutes it is hard to believe they were the second best team in the state. In that time they had a holding penalty, 2 pers. fouls, missed played a punt giving them poor field position and then on third down almost getting caught for a safety. They then throw an interception where there are 4 defenders. Instead of shortening the game they pass over 20 times stopping the clock on incompletion. Many 2 way players including lineman. What was their game plan? Stretch the game with a team that has a DI QB passing to DI receivers against D3 DB.!
The prep is hastening the demise of the PCL, BM now, how did Judge & W. Catholic do this year. How many games did ryan win this year? As more schools close The prep will pick up the talent. They have major advantages, $, and no title 9 issues.
Springfield montco which did not field a team 5 years and is a 2A tem beat bensalem & W. Tennent that 5 times the enrollment and N.H. Solebury beat CR. South 23 to 8. That is not the preps fault.
Pitt blown out by Clemson, Temple!, PSU 1 win, Syracuse 1 & 10 and Rutgers beast of the East!
The problem is much bigger then the prep.
Watching CY last night for 18 minutes it is hard to believe they were the second best team in the state. In that time they had a holding penalty, 2 pers. fouls, missed played a punt giving them poor field position and then on third down almost getting caught for a safety. They then throw an interception where there are 4 defenders. Instead of shortening the game they pass over 20 times stopping the clock on incompletion. Many 2 way players including lineman. What was their game plan? Stretch the game with a team that has a DI QB passing to DI receivers against D3 DB.!
The prep is hastening the demise of the PCL, BM now, how did Judge & W. Catholic do this year. How many games did ryan win this year? As more schools close The prep will pick up the talent. They have major advantages, $, and no title 9 issues.
Springfield montco which did not field a team 5 years and is a 2A tem beat bensalem & W. Tennent that 5 times the enrollment and N.H. Solebury beat CR. South 23 to 8. That is not the preps fault.
Pitt blown out by Clemson, Temple!, PSU 1 win, Syracuse 1 & 10 and Rutgers beast of the East!
The problem is much bigger then the prep.
To me the biggest factor of The Prep vs Anyone Else is the glaring lack of two way players on a state championship team. I thought the Prep's o-line played ok but #66 for CY was the best lineman on the field yesterday, consistently beating Prep's o-line across their faces... but he had to turn around and play on the o-line also. CY QB flips to play safety, and on and on. Where else can a player of Harrison's caliber, either of the Trotters, any of the other Prep skill players, not have to turn it around and stay on the field? That's an ENORMOUS advantage. It also means that at practice you get to compete vs your #1s on both sides of the ball.
What I would have loved to see is Prep have to line up against a completely different style of team. The only chance I think anyone would have against them is maybe a top veer team or similar that can control the ball and keep their offense off the field. Playing spread vs spread against that skill group isn't ever going to be a fair fight. Additionally, that's the style of play that they see every day at practice. While the Prep's o-line is big and dominant, it plays very tall, as is the style with most spread / zone run teams. It's hard to take advantage of that when your players are gassed from playing every down.
What I would have loved to see is Prep have to line up against a completely different style of team. The only chance I think anyone would have against them is maybe a top veer team or similar that can control the ball and keep their offense off the field. Playing spread vs spread against that skill group isn't ever going to be a fair fight. Additionally, that's the style of play that they see every day at practice. While the Prep's o-line is big and dominant, it plays very tall, as is the style with most spread / zone run teams. It's hard to take advantage of that when your players are gassed from playing every down.
Soup -
Hope you’re well! Always straight insight. The Preps line is all sophs I believe with the exception of one junior or senior. I was perplexed last night as to why Prep left starters in late into the game and I just read that Prep thought CY needed some field justice as they kept starters in this year in two games putting up 70+ points on their opponents. I think the play call was ‘humble toss’.
It’s a similar advantage/ strategy that GV uses in the Central Leahue, although they do it with vast numbers , typically with a roster size over 100. But you play 11 on offense, 11 on defense, another 11 on kickoff, 11 on kick return , etc and you have over 50 kids “ starting “. Factor in the usual amount of blow outs and they are often getting close to all 100 in the game. The other night they had 2 kids with the same jersey number on the kick off team simply because they ran out of numbers.
for me , the big advantage is you tell a kid in 9th/10th grade he is a linebacker. He only has to,learn one responsibility for 4 years - those of linebacker . You practice that everyday fir 3-4 years and it results in less missed assignments, less mental errors, therefore less physical errors come game time. While they have in recent years had some kids play both ways, the concept is the same.
for me , the big advantage is you tell a kid in 9th/10th grade he is a linebacker. He only has to,learn one responsibility for 4 years - those of linebacker . You practice that everyday fir 3-4 years and it results in less missed assignments, less mental errors, therefore less physical errors come game time. While they have in recent years had some kids play both ways, the concept is the same.
Relayer - here’s the answer
St. Joe's Prep captures historic third straight PIAA state title
As a group, the St. Joseph’s Prep Hawks were aware of the mythical titles and “the best this” and “best that” accolades. They knew they were on the brink of something special, something that had not been done in over two decades.
www.phillyvoice.com
Absolutely, GV is probably the best known example of a school that doesn't have the talent level of a Prep but sticks to 2 platoon as much as possible. Besides the obvious benefits it's also probably the only way to keep those numbers year in and year out, you need to keep the kids engaged and interested. Imagine a practice where the first team O is lined up against the first team D and the kickoff teams are practicing on the other end of the field. That's a lot of extra reps for each group. Now do that at the talent level of Prep, allow the offense to get off the field during the defensive series and look at replays on the sidelines, coaching staff makes adjustments, etc... Then when a coach in the booth says, "hey #4 (who's playing both ways) has his hands on his knees, let's go after him with Harrison this series," it's lights out.
Roxy - All is well brother and hope the same with you & the family! Wow. A young 0-line that will only will get better with game experience, only played 6 games.
Most of the games I seen this weekend in Hershey had a lot of 2 way players. That's a killer for any team at any level.
CY beat Northeastern on Oct. 16, 70-0, and then smoked Dallastown, 75-6, on Oct. 23. this year
I'd say almost every team at the HS level plays a significant amount of guys both ways, if not 1 1/2 ways. To have players of Harrison and the Trotter's level and not have to flip them around and put Harrison in the secondary or Trotter at TE or H-back is just another level of depth and it's a significant advantage when your're playing a team that already has a talent deficit. Now line up and cover those guys or block them while you're tired and they just stood on the sideline for 5 minutes not only resting, but getting coached up on what's happening on the field.
Dallastown and Northeastern were the two weakest teams in Central York's conference; conference games, Dtown 1-6, Ne 1-5 Dtown's only win was Ne. Ne's only win was 5A Dover 1-5. Looked like JV teams....at best.
About McCord or any other player this year. I wouldn't blame any coach for leaving players in forever, not knowing at what point someone gets covid or some imbecile shuts the school down. Let em play, it very well could be their last game.
About McCord or any other player this year. I wouldn't blame any coach for leaving players in forever, not knowing at what point someone gets covid or some imbecile shuts the school down. Let em play, it very well could be their last game.
I have two platooned as much as I could as a head coach. My previous school we were AAA which might be AAAA in PA we had 46 kids on varsity and two platooned. My new school we are AAAA which would be AAAAAA in PA and we had 61 in Varsity and you bet we two platooned. We do it on JV as well. As one poster stated when you do this less fatigue less chance of injury and less missed assignments. As long as I can remember many PA teams played the best on O and D even Pitt CC with a millions of kids did not two platoon. I do not know why perhaps its a regional thing but down here in NC you play the big boys they pretty much all two platoon. By no means am I saying I am a better coach or I know more than the coaches in PA I am just talking about why I two platoon
Last edited:
Here’s CY’s regular season scores: 55-0, 51-0, 56-3, 47-0, 70-0, 75-6. Needless to say, I don’t feel sorry for them. As far as Wood is concerned. It’s amazing how much coaching means.
I brought it up in an earlier post but there is no way that team should have finished 3-4. I understand the teams they lost to had one combined loss. But Wood returned all but 3 starters from a state championship team. I watched the LaSalle and Malvern streams, and thought they were just as talented if not more talented than both of those teams. Coaching was an enormous difference from last year to this year. I have heard that Adkins was one of the best coaches in the area despite his young age. Obviously those are opinions of people connected to the wood program, so take that for what it is worth. But these are people that watched/interacted with Devlin and Carey for over ten years
Let's see, The Prep has their starters in at 55 - 6 and is still passing the ball.
Is anyone surprised by this?
At first, the theory was that McCord was trying to break some record. As if that justified the situation. I'd be embarrassed if my team was ahead 55 - 6 and was still passing the ball with starters in trying to break some silly record. Instead, SJP fans here welcomed that he was going for a record.
Then, we get news that SJP was trying to mete out some sort of"vigilante street justice" to Central York as the excuse. Why does SJP think they are the judge and jury where they decide who to punish?
To me, this is a culture thing and being supported and encouraged by the "coaches". We don't have to follow the rules here, rules are meant for others to follow, not us. We're going to go out and target and recruit football players, regardless of the rules. And then this type of attitude leafs to a total lack of control and sportsmanship to make the "coaches" and players feel good about themselves. And then The Prep syncophants just go along for the ride.
I don't want to hear what they do in the community, it doesn't matter. If SJP leadership truly stood for something, the principal or whoever is in charge should fire the head coach today.
Tulla,
You've always been a rational/reasonable & mostly lucid Prepster. Have respected your opinions and the class in which it's been delivered.
So from what I'm reading from Joe Santoliquitto (forwarded above by Roxy), the Prep was attempting to administer "field justice" to a team, not in their league & have no history with, because they mercy-ruled a few teams in their Central York league??
or... as the announcers made mention to during the broadcast.. he broke the PA QB TD record previously held by Brett Gordon?
I'm inclined to believe the better decision is what you suggested above..
Jealous hater - LOL ... you must be pretty lonely to have to visit this board for that commentary.
You might note that the Prep took the starters out early against LaSalle, Roman, and Souderton.
I don't know the reason Roken left the starters in for as long as he did. As I said above, I think it was a mistake. In the big picture, though, it's hardly a firing offense.
I'll offer another perspective. As soon as last year was over, everyone associated with the Prep's program anticipated 2020 as a special year--for good reason. They had big games lined up early, two on ESPN if I'm not mistaken. We all know what happened then. First, the Prep lost the out-of-area games. Then for quite a long time it looked like there might be no season at all. For many weeks they sought games against any team within a day's driving distance. Almost no luck. Then the PCL opted to have a season, but all the Prep could get were five games. Because of the city's rules, they had to practice outside the city and they had to manage it all with only half the students in school on any day. Then they had to drop one of the five games because of COVID (which caused them to leave the starters in longer against AW because they couldn't practice at all the previous week). So the one big-stage game they had was the state championship where the coaches decided to leave the first team in for about a quarter more than they would normally leave them in. Pulling the starters mid-third quarter seems to me an odd thing to do in a state championship game. I don't recall P-R pulling anyone when they were ahead of the Prep by four TDs in the fourth quarter in 2017. How mindful were the Prep coaches that in several games CY had run up the score in ways SJP didn't all year? I don't know. In the context, I think what they did Saturday night was a mistake but far from a hanging offense. Of course, if you go into this hating the Prep ...
jhoops18, You have posted 19 messages on this board since Aug 2019 and all of them have been negative comments about the PCL with 15 of them against SJP. You truly are a hater.
You nailed it Roxy...He has post 19 times on this board and all 19 have been some type of negative comments about the PCL with 15 of the 19 calling out SJP for one reason or another. He really is a true hater.
Agreed Bucks. Prep’s line a bit down, skills way up. Bad matchups as you’ll never have the skills and size to go spread against Prep. Slow it down, control and force a more skilled opponent to play assignments is your only shot with overwhelming disadvantages.
Along the lines of assignment football - but opposite of slow it down - is go as fast as possible and make players get lined up on their own as opposed to help from coaches. That was definitely P-R’s approach in 2014 and again in 2017 when teams were more evenly matched.
I'm surprised CY did as poorly as they did, ditto Central Dauphin the year before and Harrisburg the year before that. As superior as SJP is and I realize they are profoundly talented, CY, CD and Hbg were good football teams, exceptional for public school teams. I think that gets lost with the margin and constancy of SJP wins.
I told new2pa I felt Governor Mifflin-Pine would be close, feeling as efficiently as they run the Mid Line, with the superior athletes they have (both sides), Singleton and Strausser, behind a big, physical, veteran line that they could hang with this Hawk team. Those that watched with a reasonably keen eye saw that Harrisburg had their moments (CY-CD didn't), competitive for a host of reasons but highly proficient (threatening) at Qb, Kane Everson, the way GM would be with Strausser and Singleton, especially Singleton. Just a thought.
