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PIAA should remove SJP immediately !!!

RCH13co18

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2015
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Philadelphia,PA
PIAA have different rules for SJP and it’s hurting the true PA kids. They’re bigger, faster, and stronger than everyone. They have kids from PA to Maryland. They travel to play games on a bus. They travel when school is closed for the year. They recruit by going door to door speaking with kids. They should not be able to play against kids from one district because high school kids from jersey /de/ md/fl aren’t normal hs kids.
 
New Jersey kids aren't inherently better than Pa kids, but don't you believe it's a big advantage to have kids from a huge geographical area play for your school?
 
New Jersey kids aren't inherently better than Pa kids, but don't you believe it's a big advantage to have kids from a huge geographical area play for your school?
I’m a Roman/d12 supporter. We just ramped our jersey presence up. I agree it’s an advantage to have kids from a larger geographical area, but how do we measure geographical areas? That’s my issue bc if schools in central pa can have kids from a 30 mile radius, everyone should. Correct ? It just so happens that the state line is within 2 miles from our school. If we’re allowed the same 30 miles this wouldn’t be an issue right now.
 
I agree it’s an advantage to have kids from a larger geographical area, but how do we measure geographical areas? That’s my issue bc if schools in central pa can have kids from a 30 mile radius, everyone should. Correct ? It just so happens that the state line is within 2 miles from our school. If we’re allowed the same 30 miles this wouldn’t be an issue right now.
What is the population density of the Philly metro area compared to say the Susquehanna Valley or even Pittsburgh metro.

SJP's 30 square miles is much different then the rest of the state.
 
What is the population density of the Philly metro area compared to say the Susquehanna Valley or even Pittsburgh metro.

SJP's 30 square miles is much different than the rest of the state.
I agree bc 30 sq miles from sjp could get you to about Trenton New Jersey, Wilmington DE , Royersford and a few other places.
 
Every school should have the size of Palisades school district to attract kids. Which is why Palisades is a monster in every sport - their landmass is incredible
 
Back when my son played weight ball, public school coaches weren't permitted to go to those games. I remember one of our players was recruited by someone from WC. Plenty of catholic coaches there. Yes, even back then different rules.
 
New Jersey kids aren't inherently better than Pa kids, but don't you believe it's a big advantage to have kids from a huge geographical area play for your school?
New Jersey kids aren't inherently better than Pa kids, but don't you believe it's a big advantage to have kids from a huge geographical area play for your school?
According to RCH13 pulling the best kids from 3 different states isn't an advantage it's and excuse. Must suck to have to get the best kids from NJ Philly and Delaware. Looks like it hurts the east region all star team.
 
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New Jersey kids aren't inherently better than Pa kids, but don't you believe it's a big advantage to have kids from a huge geographical area play for your school?
Huge advantage, especially when you have an 85 man roster with no kids going both ways.
 
I think as far as private schools go anyone can attend them but In order to play athletics you have to live in the district the private school is in. Same as public schools.
 
NJ or any other state is irrelevant to the conversation. That doesn’t move the needle, so just assume SJP is in a large metropolitan area centrally located in a state (Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago…).

A 45 mile radius of dudes is quite a large pool when pulling from a high population density. Quite different than anywhere else in the state. Not to mention, the public schools in Philly are a disaster.
 
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To the Prep defenders, can you comment on the financial aspect of recruiting players and if that is not a huge advantage to have booster clubs and alumni raising funds to bring in student athletes.
Coaches from many teams attend cyo and pound ball across the Phila area and speak with the 8th graders and their parents after games.
The difference with Prep is when they ask where little Johnny is going to play in high school and Johnny’s parents reply Bonner, West Catholic, Egan, Ryan etc., the Prep recruiters answer them this way.
“Instead of you forking out $10,000 to attend X school, we will only charge you the same $10,000 tuition to come here instead of the full $27,000 we charge.”
Of course most parents will jump at that to have their child attend the premier football school in the tristate area and also receive a superior education.
My question is although legal is this really fair to have the best players basically being bought from other PCL and public schools because Prep has the money to offer?
Most PCL schools are barely existing and do not have the funds or alumni support to compete with Prep financially.
Again it is legal but this is basically paying off players and their parents to build a football team. How do you expect other PCL teams to compete without the financial resources Prep has?
Not to mention I don’t think Prep superstar players are paying $27,000, or $10,000 or maybe anything to attend.
This is why the Prep team is always so deep and never rebuilding.
And yes, believe me, the above scenario happens every year with many 8th graders and their parents.
 
NJ or any other state is irrelevant to the conversation. That doesn’t move the needle, so just assume SJP is in a large metropolitan area centrally located in a state (Atlanta, Dallas, Chicago…).

A 45 mile radius of dudes is quite a large pool when pulling from a high population density. Quite different than anywhere else in the state. Not to mention, the public schools in Philly are a disaster.
Of course it is. In the past decade when has st joes prep had a rebuilding year do to graduation. Not only have they not had to rebuild they have been bringing in more and better talent. Next year's team is going to better then this year's. The gap will continue to grow. Who wants to see mercy rules throughout the 6A playoffs? A lot of fans have lost interest in the 6A playoffs because of it.
 
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To the Prep defenders, can you comment on the financial aspect of recruiting players and if that is not a huge advantage to have booster clubs and alumni raising funds to bring in student athletes.
Coaches from many teams attend cyo and pound ball across the Phila area and speak with the 8th graders and their parents after games.
The difference with Prep is when they ask where little Johnny is going to play in high school and Johnny’s parents reply Bonner, West Catholic, Egan, Ryan etc., the Prep recruiters answer them this way.
“Instead of you forking out $10,000 to attend X school, we will only charge you the same $10,000 tuition to come here instead of the full $27,000 we charge.”
Of course most parents will jump at that to have their child attend the premier football school in the tristate area and also receive a superior education.
My question is although legal is this really fair to have the best players basically being bought from other PCL and public schools because Prep has the money to offer?
Most PCL schools are barely existing and do not have the funds or alumni support to compete with Prep financially.
Again it is legal but this is basically paying off players and their parents to build a football team. How do you expect other PCL teams to compete without the financial resources Prep has?
Not to mention I don’t think Prep superstar players are paying $27,000, or $10,000 or maybe anything to attend.
This is why the Prep team is always so deep and never rebuilding.
And yes, believe me, the above scenario happens every year with many 8th graders and their parents.
You just wrote a bunch of false accusations. If you think prep can afford to foot the bill off over 150 players to attend a school that cost $27,000 a year you’re delusional. Where are they generating these funds bc without a field I know they aren’t raking in bucks at games.
 
Of course it is. In the past decade when has st joes prep had a rebuilding year do to graduation. Not only have they not had to rebuild they have been bringing in more and better talent. Next year's team is going to better then this year's. The gap will continue to grow. Who wants to see mercy rules throughout the 6A playoffs? A lot of fans have lost interest in the 6A playoffs because of it.
Highly unlikely that next year's SJP team will be better than this year's. Next year they will be playing a QB with little of no varsity experience, will be replacing all three starting receivers, four of six staring o-linemen, two d-linemen, one lb, and all the defensive backs-plus the kicker. There are some very good underclassmen in those positions--esp. at wide receiver--but hard to imagine them being as good as the guys they would be replacing are this year. They've never had more than a couple of transfers coming in after sophomore year, and in any case they would likely be ineligible for the playoffs--as Stewart is this year.

As for rebuilding years, I'd say 2015 was one--after the graduation of Reid, Zacchaeus, Runyon, the QB whose name I'm forgetting, etc. And certainly '21 was a rebuilding year. Yes, they got to the state final that year, but they lost to Milton and LaSalle in the regular season, beat Judge in a very close game, beat Wood by 3 points with a last-minute field goal, and beat Freedom by a TD. All relative, I know, but it's not that a ticket to the finals has been automatic for 10 years. I can point to single plays that, had they gone differently, would have kept SJP from the finals in 2013, 2014, probably 2016, 2019, and 2021.
 
To the Prep defenders, can you comment on the financial aspect of recruiting players and if that is not a huge advantage to have booster clubs and alumni raising funds to bring in student athletes.
Coaches from many teams attend cyo and pound ball across the Phila area and speak with the 8th graders and their parents after games.
The difference with Prep is when they ask where little Johnny is going to play in high school and Johnny’s parents reply Bonner, West Catholic, Egan, Ryan etc., the Prep recruiters answer them this way.
“Instead of you forking out $10,000 to attend X school, we will only charge you the same $10,000 tuition to come here instead of the full $27,000 we charge.”
Of course most parents will jump at that to have their child attend the premier football school in the tristate area and also receive a superior education.
My question is although legal is this really fair to have the best players basically being bought from other PCL and public schools because Prep has the money to offer?
Most PCL schools are barely existing and do not have the funds or alumni support to compete with Prep financially.
Again it is legal but this is basically paying off players and their parents to build a football team. How do you expect other PCL teams to compete without the financial resources Prep has?
Not to mention I don’t think Prep superstar players are paying $27,000, or $10,000 or maybe anything to attend.
This is why the Prep team is always so deep and never rebuilding.
And yes, believe me, the above scenario happens every year with many 8th graders and their parents.
Why would Philly parents be beating down the door of prep when imhotep is free and minutes away?
 
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According to RCH13 pulling the best kids from 3 different states isn't an advantage it's and excuse. Must suck to have to get the best kids from NJ Philly and Delaware. Looks like it hurts the east region all star team.
It’s an excuse that you’re saying they pull from three different states. When their roster is public. So it’s either an excuse or defense mechanism. Which one?
 
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To the Prep defenders, can you comment on the financial aspect of recruiting players and if that is not a huge advantage to have booster clubs and alumni raising funds to bring in student athletes.
Coaches from many teams attend cyo and pound ball across the Phila area and speak with the 8th graders and their parents after games.
The difference with Prep is when they ask where little Johnny is going to play in high school and Johnny’s parents reply Bonner, West Catholic, Egan, Ryan etc., the Prep recruiters answer them this way.
“Instead of you forking out $10,000 to attend X school, we will only charge you the same $10,000 tuition to come here instead of the full $27,000 we charge.”
Of course most parents will jump at that to have their child attend the premier football school in the tristate area and also receive a superior education.
My question is although legal is this really fair to have the best players basically being bought from other PCL and public schools because Prep has the money to offer?
Most PCL schools are barely existing and do not have the funds or alumni support to compete with Prep financially.
Again it is legal but this is basically paying off players and their parents to build a football team. How do you expect other PCL teams to compete without the financial resources Prep has?
Not to mention I don’t think Prep superstar players are paying $27,000, or $10,000 or maybe anything to attend.
This is why the Prep team is always so deep and never rebuilding.
And yes, believe me, the above scenario happens every year with many 8th graders and their parents.
I'm not on the inside so I can't say how financial arrangements are made, but I highly doubt any "superstars" whose families are not poor are getting full rides. The fact is that most Prep students--not just student athletes--get some help with tuition. If an athlete's family is relatively wealthy, my understanding is the Prep does not reduce the tuition to something like $10,000--regardless of how good the athlete is. (Again, this is my understanding after asking a few questions a couple of years ago.) You also have to factor in that costs other than tuition (transportation, activity fees, etc.) at the Prep are higher than at just about every other PCL school. (You don't think LaSalle and Roman are trying to emulate SJP?) I agree that SJP offers a superior education. Should they be embarrassed about that?
 
I did not say they are doing it for 150 kids, just the top fb players in cyo and pound fb across the region.
And Imhotep kids usually can’t get into colleges that recruit them because the academics there are horrendous.
You can believe what you want but I’m telling you 100% what goes on.
Not hating just giving the facts.
 
Name them. Let’s stop assuming and be direct. We have the internet we can all check.
You feel free to do it. List where every player on the roster lives. If you think all the athletes live in Trenton and Wilmington you are delusional.
 
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You feel free to do it. List where every player on the roster lives. If you think all the athletes live in Trenton and Wilmington you are delusional.
I never said they live there. The roster shows exactly where they live unless it’s incorrect and western pa have updated rosters.
 
You feel free to do it. List where every player on the roster lives. If you think all the athletes live in Trenton and Wilmington you are delusional.
I don’t know it to be true so I can’t confirm that if they’re price matching tuition they owe Walmart a cut.
 
I'm not on the inside so I can't say how financial arrangements are made, but I highly doubt any "superstars" whose families are not poor are getting full rides. The fact is that most Prep students--not just student athletes--get some help with tuition. If an athlete's family is relatively wealthy, my understanding is the Prep does not reduce the tuition to something like $10,000--regardless of how good the athlete is. (Again, this is my understanding after asking a few questions a couple of years ago.) You also have to factor in that costs other than tuition (transportation, activity fees, etc.) at the Prep are higher than at just about every other PCL school. (You don't think LaSalle and Roman are trying to emulate SJP?) I agree that SJP offers a superior education. Should they be embarrassed about that?
The school does not reduce the tuition. The football program reduces the tuition.
 
Philly public schools suck; 50% drop out rates. All time lowest standards recorded. Charters are performing almost as poorly.

The suburban schools are killing them academically and in every other aspect besides being an athletic powerhouse.

The Catholic schools aren’t much better.

Just sayin; so what if SJP or whoever wants to win football titles. In the grand scheme it doesn’t matter.

Let them figure out what values are of importance to themselves.
 
Google Maps on Cam Smith’s hometown has him with a 50 minute drive at 8:30 at night to SJP - it’s south of the Maryland border if you extended it.
 
Shamir Johnson from Little Egg Harbor is 70 miles away - an hour and a half in current traffic, the Atlantic Ocean touches his hometown.
 
Had to go the hour to Quakertown to get a kicker? Couldn’t just drive the 13 miles to Allentown Central Catholic?
 
What kicker is this ?
The Prep's kicker, Skyler Sholder, lives in Vorhees NJ, about 12 miles from SJP. The backup kicker, Ryan Millier, lives in Springfield--I don't know if that's Delco or Montco.

The story I heard (on Bob Long's broadcast--Long is a LaSalle guy) is that Cam Smith's parents approached SJP after last season because they wanted Cam to have more of an academic challenge than he was getting at his high school of the time, Salem High. That's why they wanted him to come to SJP. (Long said he wants to be an anesthesiologist.) The story is in line with other stories I've heard about parents and kids from near and far (but within commuting distance, even is long commuting distances) approaching SJP--rather than SJP going 30-50 miles away to recruit kids. Commuting to 17th and Girard from Carney's Point NJ or from Egg Harbor certainly requires a huge commitment.
 
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You’re assuming they’re looking for Catholics?
That's a big change over the last few decades--and not just at SJP. I bet most of the students (not just athletes) at West Catholic and maybe Roman are not Catholics. SJP, like those other schools, could not survive if it enrolled only Catholics. There have been Mormons, and Jews, and many different kinds of Protestants at SJP. And of course many students who come from families that have no religion or that are "lapsed Catholics." That doesn't mean the school itself is not a Catholic school--in certain ways (e.g, the mandatory Kairos retreats) it's more Catholic than when I went there long ago.

The relevant point for football is that not being Catholic is not a barrier to enrollment. The school has also--especially since the Ameche/Marchetti program of 50 years--actively recruited and supported students from minority communities. There were two Black students and no Latino students in my graduating class but by the mid-late 70's there were many more--including Michael Nutter.
 
The school does not reduce the tuition. The football program reduces the tuition.
As far as a know, the football program does not have the budget to substantially (e.g. at least $10,000 for each kid) reduce tuition and fees for most of the football players or even most of the starters. (Tuition plus fees amount to at least $30,000 a year.)

The school's overall student financial support program, which includes funds from sources like the Howley Foundation's donation of $5m a couple of years ago, almost certainly helps families of football players more, on average, than it helps the families of other SJP students--not because the program advantages families of football players but because it advantages families with lower incomes. And it's no secret that, overall, at SJP and at many other high schools, kids from lower income families--I'm not talking just about very poor families but families with incomes of, say, $40-50 K a year--make up an increasing proportion of football players.

By contrast, look at SJP's rowing program. It may be the best high school program in the country--certainly one of the two or three best year after year. Rowers typically come from a different--and relatively wealthy demographic, (I'm generalizing here.) I'm next to certain that despite the great success of the rowing program, families of rowers get less financial support from SJP, on average, than other families.
 
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