Backlash: Private school domination in Hoops.

[Hausmann1978]

In the years when SJP has won state championships they were certainly beatable in 2013 (when they lost to Bosco, Malvern, and Ryan and had close playoff games against LaSalle, Frankford, and Neshaminy), in 2014 (when they lost to Bosco, St. Ignatius, and St. Joseph's Regional and had close playoff games against Parkland and P-R), in 2016 when they had a close playoff game against North Penn, in 2018 when they were behind to St. Frances in the 3rd quarter when the game was suspended, and had very close come-from-behind wins against St. Peter's and Good Counsel as well as a close playoff win against LaSalle, and in 2019 when they lost to Marietta and IMG--OK with me if we consider IMG a different kind of opponent--and had an OT win against PCC in the state semifinal. In 2020 none of their six games was close, but who knows how they would have done if it hadn't been a Covid year?

Of course in 2015, 2017, and 2021 they were, in fact, beaten in the playoffs.

Yes, some of the teams they have lost to or beaten in close games in the last nine years were high-powered Catholic schools from other areas, but the list above also shows that the idea that, with the possible exception of 2020, they were "unbeatable" in any year during their recent run is just wrong.

That win over pcc in 2019 you brought up was without 2 future NFL players and they still went on to win states which proves everyone's point what kind of talent the PCL and sjp's impartially is able to bring in and that 2013 team you mentioned as well didn't they have 3 NFL players on that team. You can't really believe the plc and especially sjp doesn't take full advantage of their advantages.

 

[tulla]

That win over pcc in 2019 you brought up was without 2 future NFL players and they still went on to win states which proves everyone's point what kind of talent the PCL and sjp's impartially is able to bring in and that 2013 team you mentioned as well didn't they have 3 NFL players on that team. You can't really believe the plc and especially sjp doesn't take full advantage of their advantages.

We obviously don't know if Trotter and McCord will play in the NFL. In any case, that SJP team lost to Marietta, a GA public school. Actually the 2013 team had four future NFL players: Reid, Zaccheaus, Runyon, and Swift--all underclassmen that year. But they still lost to Ryan, Malvern, and Bosco, beat Frankford by three points and had a very close game against Neshaminy, not reflected in the final score. You might respond by saying that with four future NFL players, the Prep should have won all its games that year by wide margins, but I can say, having actually seen that team play a couple of times that season, that two, maybe three of those guys did not come to the Prep with "future NFLer" written on their foreheads.

No one denies the PCL and SJP in particular have advantages. But it would be nice to see some acknowledgment that they may have disadvantages.

 

[BradlyPitt]

Stupid analogy … it’s been said a million times … the PCL was doing their thing when the PIAA came knocking … this was likely triggered by the 2003 season that would have “pitted” North Penn against SJP but didn’t because PCL was independent … the PIAA knew then, as well as they do now based on very recent comments, that sports in PA profile better with higher competition … SJP has done nothing different over the last 70+ Years from where they draw students and 30% are still legacy, SJP was open enrollment since it opened in 1851 … take it up with PIAA … the bigger issue and one that may level the playing field is the way NIL (Name Image Likeness) has permeated the high school level as a result of recent NCAA ruling

how is it a stupid analogy?

both the MLB players and the private schools used an unfair advantage that were legal

 

[BradlyPitt]

In the years when SJP has won state championships they were certainly beatable in 2013 (when they lost to Bosco, Malvern, and Ryan and had close playoff games against LaSalle, Frankford, and Neshaminy), in 2014 (when they lost to Bosco, St. Ignatius, and St. Joseph's Regional and had close playoff games against Parkland and P-R), in 2016 when they had a close playoff game against North Penn, in 2018 when they were behind to St. Frances in the 3rd quarter when the game was suspended, and had very close come-from-behind wins against St. Peter's and Good Counsel as well as a close playoff win against LaSalle, and in 2019 when they lost to Marietta and IMG--OK with me if we consider IMG a different kind of opponent--and had an OT win against PCC in the state semifinal. In 2020 none of their six games was close, but who knows how they would have done if it hadn't been a Covid year?

Of course in 2015, 2017, and 2021 they were, in fact, beaten in the playoffs.

Yes, some of the teams they have lost to or beaten in close games in the last nine years were high-powered Catholic schools from other areas, but the list above also shows that the idea that, with the possible exception of 2020, they were "unbeatable" in any year during their recent run is just wrong.

they were not "beatable" simply because they lost to out of state schools that recruited better than them, or had close games with a few public schools

i don't want to pretend they are being fair because they didn't mercy rule everybody

and the semifinal game where Central Catholoc almost beat them, St. Joes was missing many key players like Mccord and I think Trottier too

 

[Stalker]

Roman is going to be a tough team to deal with going forward IMO. If anyone has a shot at the Prep I think its Roman. They have some solid skill position players and several d-1 studs up front.

Was just reviewing games/vids for a writeup and amen Lil, they have some wow talent. That receiver (#5) and small back tore up LS. I imagine they're Top 10 SE PA next year.

 

[tulla]

they were not "beatable" simply because they lost to out of state schools that recruited better than them, or had close games with a few public schools

i don't want to pretend they are being fair because they didn't mercy rule everybody

and the semifinal game where Central Catholoc almost beat them, St. Joes was missing many key players like Mccord and I think Trottier too

Since 2013 the Prep lost to out-of-state public schools Marietta and Milton. They lost to in-state public schools P-R and ML and won very close games to in-state public schools Frankford, Neshaminy, Parkland, North Penn, Coatesville, and P-R and a fairly close game this past year to BF. They lost to Malvern (2013), Ryan (2013), had several close games against LaSalle, losing in 2015 and 2021, and nearly lost to Wood this past year.

So if you actually look at their games, it's clear they were quite "beatable" in every year (with the possible exception of 2020) by teams other than IMG, Bosco, etc. Do you think PR and Parkland thought the Prep wasn't beatable in 2014 and that North Penn and Coatesville thought the same in 2016 and 2017? How about Wood when it was leading the Prep by 8 in the 4th quarter in last year's playoffs?

About the comparison between SJP and baseball players using steroids. As best I can recall, none of those players acknowledged using steroids at the time they were using them. What do you suspect the Prep is doing that it is not acknowledging?

 

[Relayer]

We obviously don't know if Trotter and McCord will play in the NFL. In any case, that SJP team lost to Marietta, a GA public school. Actually the 2013 team had four future NFL players: Reid, Zaccheaus, Runyon, and Swift--all underclassmen that year. But they still lost to Ryan, Malvern, and Bosco, beat Frankford by three points and had a very close game against Neshaminy, not reflected in the final score. You might respond by saying that with four future NFL players, the Prep should have won all its games that year by wide margins, but I can say, having actually seen that team play a couple of times that season, that two, maybe three of those guys did not come to the Prep with "future NFLer" written on their foreheads.

No one denies the PCL and SJP in particular have advantages. But it would be nice to see some acknowledgment that they may have disadvantages.

Tulla, you're a good dude and a great poster. At times I feel like you are trying too hard to justify the success of SJP. Not your fault, it's the PIAA. My father was a Prep grad some 70 years ago. My alma-mater (CR-North) has never won a playoff game since state playoffs started in 1988. OK, we won a 4 team playoff in 1978 for the LBCL Title. I will guess that CRN has far superior facilities than SJP. Who cares if we suck every year, pretty much the case since McIlwain left 5 years ago. I used to attend many games a year, hardly any lately. The football was so bad in Bucks this past season, not sure where we go from here.

 

[tulla]

Tulla, you're a good dude and a great poster. At times I feel like you are trying too hard to justify the success of SJP. Not your fault, it's the PIAA. My father was a Prep grad some 70 years ago. My alma-mater (CR-North) has never won a playoff game since state playoffs started in 1988. OK, we won a 4 team playoff in 1978 for the LBCL Title. I will guess that CRN has far superior facilities than SJP. Who cares if we suck every year, pretty much the case since McIlwain left 5 years ago. I used to attend many games a year, hardly any lately. The football was so bad in Bucks this past season, not sure where we go from here.

Thanks, Relayer. Maybe I get too defensive at times. We all come at these questions from different perspectives. I get why some think the Prep has a very unfair advantage and don't ever want to seem to deny they do in fact have important advantages. But I wish, for instance, that when people hear the coach at ML say all his players can walk to school they'd realize that there is a very real advantage to having kids who live nearby and who, in many cases, have known one another for years before they get to high school. I can certainly say that every evening when practice ended at the Prep I wished I could walk home instead of having to make a 75-minute commute. It would also have been very nice to be able to have a practice field at the school. Lots of guys couldn't hack it and stopped playing football. Some left the school entirely, usually after freshman year because they couldn't make it academically or just decided the Prep experience wasn't for them. I understand it still sometimes happens.

Also, your comment about football in Bucks highlights the fact that the overall picture of high school football in the country, the region, the state, and in particular parts of the state keeps changing. It seems to me that kids who 15-20 years ago would never have thought about attending SJP are doing so now at least partly because they and their families, correctly or incorrectly, think "staying local" will not get them to where they want to be in preparing for the next level. They figure that if they go to SJP they will get good, maybe great. coaching, more--maybe much more--opportunity to show their skills in high-profile settings, and an academic environment that is both challenging and supportive. Talley going to Penn, Johnson going to Princeton, Picariello going to Colgate, etc, sell the program as much as the guys in the NFL do--at least to the parents.

 

[lilromeo]

Was just reviewing games/vids for a writeup and amen Lil, they have some wow talent. That receiver (#5) and small back tore up LS. I imagine they're Top 10 SE PA next year.

Stalk, glad someone acknowledged what is happening at Roman other than myself. The McDevitt closing will further benefit Roman as well as Wood. Several Roman and Wood players will be big contributors to those two programs this coming year.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

what's the deal with N-G in football? I remember talking to a villanova coach said that he thought it was only a matter of time before Crosby was reeling in titles.

 

[BlueWhite18]

what's the deal with N-G in football? I remember talking to a villanova coach said that he thought it was only a matter of time before Crosby was reeling in titles.

You really should look into your schools Acceptable Use Policy. You are most likely in violation on your CBA. This type of teacher laziness is what gives public education a bad name and results in failing students.

When it comes time to renegotiate your districts contract you better hope that the solicitor or law firm representing the district doesn't have the IT administrator do a deep dive into their employees use of computers. You may no longer have a job. You do realize they have buzzwords that get sent directly to IT. They may be monitoring you right now lol.

Now go TEACH instead of posting on message boards during your school day.

You keep reinforcing my point on how bad some teachers or public education can be.

 

[lilromeo]

what's the deal with N-G in football? I remember talking to a villanova coach said that he thought it was only a matter of time before Crosby was reeling in titles.

NG should be reeling in titles with the talent they are getting. Leddie Brown former RB starts for West Virginia their former nose tackle started for Alabama two years ago and several of their current players have D-1 offers. Crosby is a great recruiter and gets his players individually into colleges, but IMO game day and preparation arent his strengths ,same could be said when he was at Imhotep. His state title there was when he had Gordan as his OC and Schmidt as his DC. He is a great guy for sure.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

You really should look into your schools Acceptable Use Policy. You are most likely in violation on your CBA. This type of teacher laziness is what gives public education a bad name and results in failing students.

When it comes time to renegotiate your districts contract you better hope that the solicitor or law firm representing the district doesn't have the IT administrator do a deep dive into their employees use of computers. You may no longer have a job. You do realize they have buzzwords that get sent directly to IT. They may be monitoring you right now lol.

Now go TEACH instead of posting on message boards during your school day.

You keep reinforcing my point on how bad some teachers or public education can be.

awe... Are you still trying to die on the hill that private schools, PCC included don't have students with IEP's..

I haven't lived this rent free someone's head in years.