Backlash: Private school domination in Hoops.

[tulla]

I agree, which is again why I’m not advocating for it. It’s the one reasonable compromise I can see.

SJP would never not allow their students from Jersey to participate in any school activity, including sports. The school has had a substantial number of students from Jersey since the Benjamin Franklin Bridge was built in 1926--and maybe before!!! I know some other PCL schools have occasionally had students from Jersey, but never in numbers close to what SJP has had. That's partly because of location. (It's easier to get to SJP from Cherry Hill, Mount Laurel, Haddonfield, etc. than from parts of NE Philly, much of Delaware, Montgomery, or all of Bucks County.) It's also because many students/families are quite willing to travel past 5-50 high schools to get to SJP.

So if the PIAA put in a rule barring out-of-state players from the playoffs, the Prep would be out. The question is what the rest of the PCL would do. My guess is they'd say "If the Prep goes, we'll all go," but maybe I'm wrong.

One thing to note is that though SJP has basketball, baseball, soccer, etc. players from Jersey, it's only football where there seems to be an issue. So the "no out of state players" rule used to solve a perceived problem in only one sport would apply to a whole bunch of sports.

Just wondering if SJP doesn't not win the state football championship next year if the whole topic dies. Also wondering if the Mount Lebanon people are wishing they had played (and beaten) another team in the title game.

Stalker, thanks for listing all those schools. I agree it helps illustrate the problem but not an obvious solution.

SJP may have great teams for many more years, but it is far from a given. Several things could happen--at least a few of which did happen or almost happened last year--to make state championships games something other than par for the course.

 

[BlueWhite18]

Here is your short answer.

Answer: Yes, IEPs do cover extracurriculars—but only when it comes to school-sponsored activities. That includes things like band, chorus, sports, and before- and after-care programs. Extracurriculars are a big part of the school experience for many students.

Do IEPs Cover Extracurricular Activities?​

Can kids with IEPs get accommodations for non-academic activities at school? Learn how your child's IEP covers supports and services for extracurriculars.

www.understood.org

Are your ears ringing?

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Here is your short answer.

Answer: Yes, IEPs do cover extracurriculars—but only when it comes to school-sponsored activities. That includes things like band, chorus, sports, and before- and after-care programs. Extracurriculars are a big part of the school experience for many students.

Do IEPs Cover Extracurricular Activities?​

Can kids with IEPs get accommodations for non-academic activities at school? Learn how your child's IEP covers supports and services for extracurriculars.

www.understood.org

Are your ears ringing?

What's your background with IEP's - have you written them?

 

[sammyk]

What's your background with IEP's - have you written them?

Have you ever been in a several hour meeting with one

 

[BlueWhite18]

I think you are missing the point.

This not about how many IEP, 504 or behavioral meeting anyone has sat in,

This is about the unfair advantage they give a public school student. Some programs keep students athletically eligible no matter what. Whereas, other schools require them to actually be STUDENT-athletes.

I think it is the one thing people seem to forget about when they bring up the inequities of attending a private/catholic school.

You cannot seriously compare the educational standards required for athletica participation.

Aliquippa has an average SAT score of 990.

Pittsburgh Central Catholic has an average score of 1250.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Have you ever been in a several hour meeting with one

More times then I'd like to count over the past 22 years.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

I think you are missing the point.

This not about how many IEP, 504 or behavioral meeting anyone has sat in,

This is about the unfair advantage they give a public school student. Some programs keep students athletically eligible no matter what. Whereas, other schools require them to actually be STUDENT-athletes.

I think it is the one thing people seem to forget about when they bring up the inequities of attending a private/catholic school.

You cannot seriously compare the educational standards required for athletica participation.

Aliquippa has an average SAT score of 990.

Pittsburgh Central Catholic has an average score of 1250.

You're just rambling and trying to project unfounded accusations about specific schools.

I've taught/coached at urban, suburban, and rural school districts for 22 years. I've worked with minority students for the majority of my career.

I've seen one student in that time have an IEP which had a goal to participate in extra curriculars. He was still bound by grade performance, attendance, and all of the eligibility the district and state requires.

What you've suggested in previous posts is that a student-athlete who has extra curriculars mandated in his IEP is not bound by the athletic eligibilities that every other student is. If that's the precedent, then a student athlete could technically not be held accountable for anything because they "must" participate in sports.

If Aliquippa is having such conspiracy with grading standards with athletes, how come the majority of these kids are qualifying through the NCAA?

Is this to say Aliquippa doesn't have teachers who are lenient in grading - no. Every school does including private schools.

When you say "some" schools keep students eligible no matter what - who are you talking about? Are you talking about Clairton? Are you talking about Wash High? Are you talking about Beaver Falls? I've seen everyone of those schools I mentioned have kids ineligible because they didn't go to summer school or they missed too many days the prior year.

Since you're all about SAT scores - give me PCC's Football team SAT scores and split them up between White and African American.

 

[BlueWhite18]

It happens. I have seen it with my own two eyes. Aliquippa has over 21% special education students, the reality is they need IEP's, 504's and behavior plans for participation.

Not every school is lenient on grading. Not sure where you are teaching or what school you attended, but not the case at all schools. Not even close.

It has nothing to do with race.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

It happens. I have seen it with my own two eyes. Aliquippa has over 21% special education students, the reality is they need IEP's, 504's and behavior plans for participation.

Not every school is lenient on grading. Not sure where you are teaching or what school you attended, but not the case at all schools. Not even close.

It has nothing to do with race.

nonsense

I coach and teach at a school where about 45% of the students receive free and/or reduced lunches. We have about an 85% graduation rate. The last test scores showed we were 54% proficient in math and 60% in reading. 22% of our population receives special education services. I can tell you we have no one with an IEP that details extracurricular involvement. I've been here for four years.

Is that to say some schools/teachers are lenient - no. I've seen teachers at my own school who've been lenient.

Can you say where "you've seen this type of thing with your own 2 eyes?"

 

[BradlyPitt]

I think another point to be made is that the kids going to the private/catholic schools are also going there for academics - not just the athletics.

The same can not be said about New Castle or Aliquippa. Public education is a mess.

As you pointed out, Aliquippa performed well in football with 11 athletes. Maybe New Castle and Aliquippa are just getting out-coached in basketball?

lol right they are going there for "academics"

the fact that New Castle lost by less than 20 against a national all star team, when their best player is a football player tells me New Castle isn't lacking coaching

 

[BradlyPitt]

I've flipped 180 on this and in that camp Stalk. And I'm guessing the old P-R guys and the Lebo guys are too.

they wouldn't be if they didn't luck out and have timing on their side playing the young baby version of St. Joe's instead of literally any other St. Joe's teams

 

[BradlyPitt]

Sammy, what would that teach the kids? When the going gets tough, quit? When the odds may be stacked against you, just take your ball and go home? I’m not sure that’s the answer.

so what is the answer?

accept the fact that the other side is cheating and deal with it?

"it doeesn't take a man to take a beating" - Apollo Creed

 

[BradlyPitt]

I think the problem isn't in all the public schools but just some. Kennedy Catholic in mercer county didn't win a game all year where you have these schools because of location and where they can get their talent from are able to put together these super teams every year like sjp prep in football and Imhotep in basketball. It's a small percentage of the Catholic schools that are the problem. Even Pittsburgh central Catholic has down years and rebuilding years. I think they've won one wpial title in the past 5 years and not a single state championship. Teams like sjp and Imhotep win it every single year. This year was a down year for prep and they took silver. They've been to 9 out of the last 10 state championships. The only 2 Imhotep didnt compete in was due to covid.

central won wpial titles in 2020 and 2019, a down year for them is losing in the wpial title game

 

[BradlyPitt]

And charter schools are unfortunately failing at the same rate that public’s are. In a lot of cases charter schools are a great way to keep the white side while and the black side black. And what is wrong with public schools? There are a ton of great public schools in PA. Just in the WPIAl you have Mt Lebo Fox Chapel Mars Upper St Clair pine Richland Bethel Park West Allegheny Cannon Mac Ect Ect. That are all great schools

the last 3 schools you listed are mediocre at best

other great ones are Peters Township, Franklin Regional, Hampton, Quaker Valley

 

[BradlyPitt]

. Also wondering if the Mount Lebanon people are wishing they had played (and beaten) another team in the title game.

i'm sure the football team takes more pride in beating St. Joes than a public school, they were pretty open about that with their "home grown" sign after the game

but they were also pretty open about not liking their unfair advantage before the game, and if they lost it would've stung more than losing to a public school

their basketball coach Joe David wasn't too happy about having to play Kennedy Catholic in the state playoffs when they had a kid from Italy and future college basketball player of the year Oscar Tsibwe from the Congo

he said something like "they have kids from all over the world, we're from Mt. Lebanon"

 

[tulla]

so what is the answer?

accept the fact that the other side is cheating and deal with it?

"it doeesn't take a man to take a beating" - Apollo Creed

Who's cheating? You can certainly make the case that the present arrangement is unfair, but something can be unfair without there being cheating.

 

[new2pa]

they wouldn't be if they didn't luck out and have timing on their side playing the young baby version of St. Joe's instead of literally any other St. Joe's teams

That's like saying Pine-Richland was down in 2014 when they gave SJP all they could take. The last three 2018-2020 for SJP with the 3 studs they had is going to be hard to repeat. Just like 2017 with Jurkovec, Kristofic, Katic. Just like 2021 Lebo.

I'm not going to argue that SJP in 2017 and 2021 wasn't as good as 2018-2020, but doesn't that sorta show that they can have down years too?

Like I said, I've flipped 180. If P-R wouldn't have beat SJP in 2017, the program never would have been thought of in the same high regard.

 

[sammyk]

nonsense

I coach and teach at a school where about 45% of the students receive free and/or reduced lunches. We have about an 85% graduation rate. The last test scores showed we were 54% proficient in math and 60% in reading. 22% of our population receives special education services. I can tell you we have no one with an IEP that details extracurricular involvement. I've been here for four years.

Is that to say some schools/teachers are lenient - no. I've seen teachers at my own school who've been lenient.

Can you say where "you've seen this type of thing with your own 2 eyes?"

45%! Free and reduced lunch. That’s it???

 

[BlueWhite18]

NO. I have NEVER seen a teacher be lenient. I have never see an administrator change a grade. That’s quite sad that you have.

The expectations are high for their STUDENT-athletes. That's why PCC has just as many doctors, attorneys and Fortune 500 employees as they do professional athletes.

I have seen it at other schools. That's why I moved to a better district.

IEP's, 504 and behavioral plans all offer significant advantages to a public school.

The standards are so low at some of these school its laughable to call them student-athletes. Academic eligibility/requirements are not the same. Not even close.

 

[sammyk]

NO. I have NEVER seen a teacher be lenient. I have never see an administrator change a grade. Our expectations are too high for our STUDENT-athletes.

I have seen it at other schools. That's why I moved to a better district.

IEP's, 504 and behavioral plans all offer significant advantages to a public school.

Want better students? Offer a better education? Hire better teachers.

Until then the standards are so low at some of these school its laughable to call them student-athletes. Academic eligibility/requirements are not the same. Not even close.

That's the thing about Pennsylvania each little town is its own fiefdom. One town may have tons of parent support and resources then the one 3 miles away might have none of that, example Aliquippa and Beaver. I have no idea how to fix that, you mentioned offer a better education. How do you do that ?? Hire better teachers , how do you do that???? Sounds like some of those things might cost some money. Where does the district get the money for those things??? I would bet my eye teeth that there is no way you could get a Mt Lebo teacher to teach at say Uniontown unless you pay more than they are making at Mt Lebo and then some. How do you pay for that??? Better education you say what does that mean??? Does that mean Rigor? Expectations ? Access to materials??? Environment?? Do we even go into ACE scores to provide a better education ???? As someone who has taught in the tougher schools and I mean 90% + free and reduced lunch that some of you guys do not have a clue

 

[steelcurtain55.]

NO. I have NEVER seen a teacher be lenient. I have never see an administrator change a grade. That’s quite sad that you have.

The expectations are high for their STUDENT-athletes. That's why PCC has just as many doctors, attorneys and Fortune 500 employees as they do professional athletes.

I have seen it at other schools. That's why I moved to a better district.

IEP's, 504 and behavioral plans all offer significant advantages to a public school.

The standards are so low at some of these school its laughable to call them student-athletes. Academic eligibility/requirements are not the same. Not even close.

You have never seen a teacher be lenient? What planet do you live on?

Just recently PCC sent a few players to Lackawanna Junior College. If the academic rigor and standards are so high with eligibility how come these guys weren't qualifiers coming out? How come they weren't ineligible at all while in HS?

 

[sammyk]

You have never seen a teacher be lenient? What planet do you live on?

Just recently PCC sent a few players to Lackawanna Junior College. If the academic rigor and standards are so high with eligibility how come these guys weren't qualifiers coming out? How come they weren't ineligible at all while in HS?

With the transfer portal many high school kids are finding ways to get a few years in to better their recruiting stock. It does not necessarily mean that they were non qualifiers

 

[steelcurtain55.]

With the transfer portal many high school kids are finding ways to get a few years in to better their recruiting stock. It does not necessarily mean that they were non qualifiers

They were non-qualifiers.

 

[sammyk]

They were non-qualifiers.

Well how you know that is your business so I don’t know. But putting kids info out there is also not so cool.

 

[BlueWhite18]

With the transfer portal many high school kids are finding ways to get a few years in to better their recruiting stock. It does not necessarily mean that they were non qualifiers

You are right with your statement.

Not sure where she got her information, but that is incorrect.

If you can prove they were non-qualifiers. POST YOUR FACTS, just don't make this stuff up or bash kids to make yourself feel better.

PCC boasts a 100% graduation rate. Incoming freshman take an academic acceptance exam to just get into the school. There is no special education, no IEP's.

Maybe instead of posting online during your school day, you should be teaching, or tutoring, until then, you are failing your students.

Now get back to your class. The school day is not over lol.

Teachers do not do this at successful schools...just saying.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Well how you know that is your business so I don’t know. But putting kids info out there is also not so cool.

it's not a big deal. It's public knowledge.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

You are right with your statement.

Not sure where she got her information, but that is incorrect.

If you can prove they were non-qualifiers. POST YOUR FACTS, just don't make this stuff up or bash kids to make yourself feel better.

PCC boasts a 100% graduation rate. Incoming freshman take an academic acceptance exam to just get into the school. There is no special education, no IEP's.

Maybe instead of posting online during your school day, you should be teaching, or tutoring, until then, you are failing your students.

Now get back to your class. The school day is not over lol.

Teachers do not do this at successful schools...just saying.

bash kids??? haha..

Here's the thing..

A. You're either full of shit

B. You literally have no idea what you're talking about.

I personally know kids who have special needs who have attended PCC, Serra, BC, etc..

If you somehow think private schools never turn a blind eye to academic performance, explain how Shady McCoy was never ineligible but didn't graduate and needed to go to Milford?

The 3 kids who went the JUCO route out of PCC are good kids. But, you don't go JUCO and lose eligibility when you have D1 offers on the table. You also don't go JUCO after you've committed to a D1 school. You go JUCO when you either don't have the grades or you don't have the offers. The PCC kids had a bunch of non-committable offers because they never had the grades.

 

[BlueWhite18]

Uh oh...someone got emotionally triggered, brought out the curse words to try and make your point. Still doesn't make anything you said true, you posted no facts. PCC has no sped program, none. They hold ALL students to the same standard, some choose options to help prepare them for college like JUCO, some have other reasons, none of which you can name, but all are held to the same PCC academic standards. Teachers hold their students accountable. 100% graduation.

Maybe you are part of the problem?????? Maybe you are teaching to the weakest kid in the class, lowering the standards for all instead of challenging them.... Surely posting on message boards during the school day, or class DOES NOT help your students. In fact, most schools have an Acceptable Use Policy prohibiting it. But, keep posting, keep taking selfies with your students, keep giving them the answers, keep reading the tests aloud to them, keep giving them word banks, keep enabling their downfall....keep making excuses...keep doing all the stuff EXCEPT teaching lol. The union will protect you.

You are the reason people send their kids to private/catholic schools.

This does not happen at PCC.

IEPs'....and apparently lazy teachers provide public school students with an unfair advantage.

And remember when you tried to bring race into it?

Throw more crap at the wall and see if it sticks lol

 

[sammyk]

I teach in a non union state. You do not want that trust me

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Uh oh...someone got emotionally triggered, brought out the curse words to try and make your point. Still doesn't make anything you said true, you posted no facts. PCC has no sped program, none. They hold ALL students to the same standard, some choose options to help prepare them for college like JUCO, some have other reasons, none of which you can name, but all are held to the same PCC academic standards. Teachers hold their students accountable. 100% graduation.

Maybe you are part of the problem?????? Maybe you are teaching to the weakest kid in the class, lowering the standards for all instead of challenging them.... Surely posting on message boards during the school day, or class DOES NOT help your students. In fact, most schools have an Acceptable Use Policy prohibiting it. But, keep posting, keep taking selfies with your students, keep giving them the answers, keep reading the tests aloud to them, keep giving them word banks, keep enabling their downfall....keep making excuses...keep doing all the stuff EXCEPT teaching lol. The union will protect you.

You are the reason people send their kids to private/catholic schools.

This does not happen at PCC.

IEPs'....and apparently lazy teachers provide public school students with an unfair advantage.

And remember when you tried to bring race into it?

Throw more crap at the wall and see if it sticks lol

I don't pass facts? Buddy, you haven't posted one fact at all.

You got butthurt because you know the fact that 3 very prominent kids at PCC went the JUCO route in the past few years. Or maybe you didn't know that. All 3 had non-committable D1 offers. 2 of them had power 5 offers. One actually gave a verbal commitment pending final grades.

You don't go the JUCO route when you have committable D1 offers.

You go the JUCO route when you don't qualify. You don't leave D1 offers on the table and go JUCO.

Stop trying to paint public schools, especially minority ones with such a broad brush.

 

[BradlyPitt]

Who's cheating? You can certainly make the case that the present arrangement is unfair, but something can be unfair without there being cheating.

well steroids weren't illegal in baseball in the 90's, but now people call those players cheaters

 

[BradlyPitt]

That's like saying Pine-Richland was down in 2014 when they gave SJP all they could take. The last three 2018-2020 for SJP with the 3 studs they had is going to be hard to repeat. Just like 2017 with Jurkovec, Kristofic, Katic. Just like 2021 Lebo.

I'm not going to argue that SJP in 2017 and 2021 wasn't as good as 2018-2020, but doesn't that sorta show that they can have down years too?

Like I said, I've flipped 180. If P-R wouldn't have beat SJP in 2017, the program never would have been thought of in the same high regard.

i think the 2014 PR team is one of the better teams to not win a state title, i think they would beat many of the teams that have won state titles including 2021 Mt. Lebanaon

a down year for St. Joe's is the best year ever for probably about 95% of high schools in PA, losing in the state title game

 

[roxychknpoxy]

well steroids weren't illegal in baseball in the 90's, but now people call those players cheaters

Stupid analogy … it’s been said a million times … the PCL was doing their thing when the PIAA came knocking … this was likely triggered by the 2003 season that would have “pitted” North Penn against SJP but didn’t because PCL was independent … the PIAA knew then, as well as they do now based on very recent comments, that sports in PA profile better with higher competition … SJP has done nothing different over the last 70+ Years from where they draw students and 30% are still legacy, SJP was open enrollment since it opened in 1851 … take it up with PIAA … the bigger issue and one that may level the playing field is the way NIL (Name Image Likeness) has permeated the high school level as a result of recent NCAA ruling

 

[steelcurtain55.]

This does not happen at PCC.

IEPs'....and apparently lazy teachers provide public school students with an unfair advantage.

Since, you bring this up..... I spoke to one of the administrators at PCC and they said they absolutely said they have kids with IEP's and 504's. Staff in-house as well the local IU's are utilized to meet the needs of their students under state/federal law.

That's why I ask - what is your background with IEP's?

Stop with the unfair advantage crap.

 

[BlueWhite18]

Since, you bring this up..... I spoke to one of the administrators at PCC and they said they absolutely said they have kids with IEP's and 504's. Staff in-house as well the local IU's are utilized to meet the needs of their students under state/federal law.

That's why I ask - what is your background with IEP's?

Stop with the unfair advantage crap.

Sure you did......Stop posting.

Start teaching. I talked to some people at your school and they told me half the team has an IEP.

You are part of the problem.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

Sure you did......Stop posting.

Start teaching. I talked to some people at your school and they told me half the team has an IEP.

You are part of the problem.

Are you denying that IU's and other organizations are not required by state/federal law to meet with private schools to address special needs students?

Seton LaSalle -

https://www.slshs.org/apps/pages/academic-success-services

With the help of our Guidance department, Seton LaSalle's teachers and Academic Support staff honors the outcomes of Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) by accommodating the personalized learning needs of students.

Pittsburgh Central Catholic

The Academic Support Program includes:

• 5 full-time teachers who provide academic support

• Reading and math specialists provided by the Intermediate Unit​

• Peer-to-peer tutoring sponsored by the National Honor Society

https://www.centralcatholichs.com/pages/academic-support

Greensburg Central Catholic

https://www.gcchs.org/academics/Pages/supportservices.aspx


Bishop Canevin -
https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/24618/documents/2021/8/Student Parent Handbook 2021-2022.pdf

INTERMEDIATE UNIT Bishop Canevin High School receives special services from the Pittsburgh Mt. Oliver Intermediate Unit. These include: a reading specialist, academic testing, and referral services for educational and psychological evaluation. Additional support services are provided by the Intermediate Unit to the Bishop Canevin Student Assistance Program.


______________________________________________________________________________________________

This is why I said you literally have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe it's time you walk away from the discussion.

 

[Hausmann1978]

That's like saying Pine-Richland was down in 2014 when they gave SJP all they could take. The last three 2018-2020 for SJP with the 3 studs they had is going to be hard to repeat. Just like 2017 with Jurkovec, Kristofic, Katic. Just like 2021 Lebo.

I'm not going to argue that SJP in 2017 and 2021 wasn't as good as 2018-2020, but doesn't that sorta show that they can have down years too?

Like I said, I've flipped 180. If P-R wouldn't have beat SJP in 2017, the program never would have been thought of in the same high regard.

You're calling losing in a state championship a down year. Most schools never make a state title game where sjp has been 9 out of the last 10 title games. The philly Catholic league takes full advantage of their advantages.

 

[new2pa]

I’m not sure your talking to me or not, but I was trying to say the opposite.

I’ve said in other threads that a good class and good coaching and they are beatable - when they don’t have a “great” class.

 

[tulla]

In the years when SJP has won state championships they were certainly beatable in 2013 (when they lost to Bosco, Malvern, and Ryan and had close playoff games against LaSalle, Frankford, and Neshaminy), in 2014 (when they lost to Bosco, St. Ignatius, and St. Joseph's Regional and had close playoff games against Parkland and P-R), in 2016 when they had a close playoff game against North Penn, in 2018 when they were behind to St. Frances in the 3rd quarter when the game was suspended, and had very close come-from-behind wins against St. Peter's and Good Counsel as well as a close playoff win against LaSalle, and in 2019 when they lost to Marietta and IMG--OK with me if we consider IMG a different kind of opponent--and had an OT win against PCC in the state semifinal. In 2020 none of their six games was close, but who knows how they would have done if it hadn't been a Covid year?

Of course in 2015, 2017, and 2021 they were, in fact, beaten in the playoffs.

Yes, some of the teams they have lost to or beaten in close games in the last nine years were high-powered Catholic schools from other areas, but the list above also shows that the idea that, with the possible exception of 2020, they were "unbeatable" in any year during their recent run is just wrong.

 

[lilromeo]

In the years when SJP has won state championships they were certainly beatable in 2013 (when they lost to Bosco, Malvern, and Ryan and had close playoff games against LaSalle, Frankford, and Neshaminy), in 2014 (when they lost to Bosco, St. Ignatius, and St. Joseph's Regional and had close playoff games against Parkland and P-R), in 2016 when they had a close playoff game against North Penn, in 2018 when they were behind to St. Frances in the 3rd quarter when the game was suspended, and had very close come-from-behind wins against St. Peter's and Good Counsel as well as a close playoff win against LaSalle, and in 2019 when they lost to Marietta and IMG--OK with me if we consider IMG a different kind of opponent--and had an OT win against PCC in the state semifinal. In 2020 none of their six games was close, but who knows how they would have done if it hadn't been a Covid year?

Of course in 2015, 2017, and 2021 they were, in fact, beaten in the playoffs.

Yes, some of the teams they have lost to or beaten in close games in the last nine years were high-powered Catholic schools from other areas, but the list above also shows that the idea that, with the possible exception of 2020, they were "unbeatable" in any year during their recent run is just wrong.

Roman is going to be a tough team to deal with going forward IMO. If anyone has a shot at the Prep I think its Roman. They have some solid skill position players and several d-1 studs up front.