SJP

[tulla]

Not expecting anyone other than Prep guys to respond (though of course anyone can) to a question I've been asking myself since Saturday's game.

LaSalle's defense was obviously focused on containing Swift on the ground and they did a great job doing so. He got lots of yardage on returns but I think I saw that he got only 14 yards from scrimmage. So my question is why the Prep didn't try to open up the LaSalle defense by passing more. They completed 7 of 14 passes for 78 yards but 50 of them must have come on the first play from scrimmage. Therefore they got no more than 30 the whole rest of the game, especially in the second half. Was Shaw playing hurt before he had to leave the game? Were the coaches afraid of interceptions, especially after LaSalle returned one for a TD? McCray didn't throw much when he was in and didn't look so comfortable doing so, so why didn't they use Longo? And is Angelos (who we heard has shown promise as a passing QB) still in the picture?

I suppose the fact that the Prep was in the lead for the whole of the second half until the last minute made them extra cautious, but as the game wore on it was becoming increasingly clear that the LaSalle defense wasn't letting the Prep run. I don't like quoting myself but here's what I said last week on the LaSalle-SJP thread: "One key Saturday will be how well the Prep's passing game works. It doesn't have to be great but just good enough to prevent LaSalle from focusing almost entirely on containing SJP's ground game. Even then, unless the Prep fumbles a few times, their running game alone will put a few TDs on the board."

I think I was pretty much on the money--thanks to Benny Walls--but the mystery remains why with receivers like Green and Simmons--and Swift, DuMnd, and Walls!!--the Prep seemed so averse to passing.

 

[roxychknpoxy]

Tulla -

Unfortunately, I wasn't at the game. However, I was at a few prior games. I alluded to it on a previous post - there has been an erosion to the passing game. Specifically, the long pass. The play calling had become limited. Also, the QB option was rarely exercised compared to other years. Therefore, opposing defense could focus on short pass and run. My concern was this would be exposed at either LS or Parkland.

 

[paul from philly]

Well La Salle exposed it so you don't have to worry about Parkland. That's just my view from up here on Utopia Hill. Sorry, I had to do it. Pay back for John Wayne!!

 

[roxychknpoxy]

No problem ... Keep doing your arm extensions - self back patting is expected on Utopian Hill

 

[fbfan1225]

Tulla,

The issue is more play calling than making LaSalle worry about the pass. Every time Swift took a kick return everyone on the LaSalle sidelines held their breath and he still ran wild. Yet you only needed a couple of fingers to count the times they handed him the ball to run outside. Everything was between the tackles. Even Walls TD runs were between tackles. Even passing more would not have made a difference in opening things up because LaSalle was winning at the line. The Prep has played this way for a few years just in past years they were better upfront and had more horses. They only run a couple different plays. Pretty simple offense.

 

[sammyk]

So it is about the jimmies and joes and not x's and o's

 

[Spider 2Y Banana]

Agree Tulla, I think going in the QB play for prep had to be good to win. I think Longo was in for a series in the 4th, and McCray is a solid prospect but did look uncomfortable. I think Kidd-Jackson being hurt did not help, as he and Swift run the wildcat read successfully, give credit to LS D as well......What surprised me the most was the lack of pressure on Ferguson, Prep had Shurmur running for his life last year.....Nice adjustments by LS, Ferguson made some nice escape throws and the 34 yd backfoot TD throw to Headen with blitz in his face was strong...Not many HS QB's can make that throw....

 

[tulla]

Tulla -

Unfortunately, I wasn't at the game. However, I was at a few prior games. I alluded to it on a previous post - there has been an erosion to the passing game. Specifically, the long pass. The play calling had become limited. Also, the QB option was rarely exercised compared to other years. Therefore, opposing defense could focus on short pass and run. My concern was this would be exposed at either LS or Parkland.

Roxy, I was there but missed a lot because I was standing along the fence at the far end--away from the entrance--side. I didn't realize until I watched the You Tube video of the game--every play condensed to 31 minutes--that Longo came in in the 4th quarter for a few plays.

Some observations:

• Does the Prep ever miss Jon Runyon! Swift had no chance in his runs from scrimmage, and the quarterback draws weren't nearly as effective as in the last few years. Am I right in thinking Carter Lynch didn't recover from his injury? I understood he'd be available in November.
• That blocking in the back penalty that called back the Swift punt return was a killer. Swift would have scored regardless. There must have been three or four returns that Swift almost broke and perhaps would have been game changers. He certainly worked hard.
• People say that in hockey having a two-goal lead is a trap because it induces complacency. The Prep had a lead almost the entire second half and seemed content to sit on it---not good in a rivalry game that is also a championship game.
• The season was an odd one. Going into it I think many were so focused on Swift that the fact that the team was generally quite inexperienced went unnoticed. Maybe that was one reason for the inconsistency--quite a bit of talent but much of it inexperienced. But consistency was a problem even in the two state championship years--think Bosco both years, Ryan in '13, St. Edward's and SJR in '14--and was certainly a problem all year this year, sometimes from game to game (good game against Evangel followed by bad game against Bosco followed by good game against St. Edward's followed by bad game against Malvern followed by good game against SJR) and sometimes within games (the RS game against LaSalle). I get it that the players are teenagers and inconsistency is a hallmark of adolescence and I understand that the nature of the Prep schedule means that if you have a lapse you're likely to pay for it big time, but the problem needs to be addressed directly.
• I felt especially sorry for Shaw on Saturday. He hardly played at all last year--unlike Clements who played two full games and more than a little in some of the others as a junior. Clements had a rough start in '14 but the Malvern game was a turning point. After that he gained confidence and seemed to be in control of the offense. I didn't get the sense that Shaw ever completely settled in as QB this year and then he had the injury against Judge. I'm assuming his leaving the game on Saturday was entirely injury-related. Am I wrong in thinking that maybe the whole "quarterback question" never got entirely settled this year? Going on Saturday's decision, it seems that the answer to "who's #2?" wasn't so clear.

Still, it's true that you often can learn and grow more from defeat than from victory. And it's good for the PCL that the LaSalle-SJP rivalry that some (especially some LaSalle people who post regularly on here) thought was going to be one-sided in favor of SJP for a few years is as healthy as ever.

 

[tulla]

Agree Tulla, I think going in the QB play for prep had to be good to win. I think Longo was in for a series in the 4th, and McCray is a solid prospect but did look uncomfortable. I think Kidd-Jackson being hurt did not help, as he and Swift run the wildcat read successfully, give credit to LS D as well......What surprised me the most was the lack of pressure on Ferguson, Prep had Shurmur running for his life last year.....Nice adjustments by LS, Ferguson made some nice escape throws and the 34 yd backfoot TD throw to Headen with blitz in his face was strong...Not many HS QB's can make that throw....

I admit saying to myself a few times "Jake Strain, where are you?" I hate to say it but I think that because everyone knew Shurmur had the talent he had last year, the Prep focused on developing a plan that really worked in both games, especially the championship game. And maybe because Ferguson did not have a good game in the first matchup this year, the Prep underestimated how much damage he could do. Still, the game was decided less by the LaSalle offense and the Prep defense than by the Prep offense and the LaSalle defense.

 

[paul from philly]

"And it's good for the PCL that the La Salle-SJP rivalry that some (especially some La Salle people who post regularly on here) thought was going to be one-sided in favor of SJP for a few years is as healthy as ever."

I guess you would have to put Drew Gordon on that list also. Got out thinking the going was gonna be tough!!

Tulla, come on now. That's one reason why this was such a big upset. Everyone was thinking St. Joe had the makings of a thousand year Reich.

 

[paul from philly]

I have no problem admitting I was one who thought the PCL crown would stay at 17th and Girard for a few years, realizing that it's all cyclical but I was not of the thinking though that the administration was leaving the football team out to dry as some on the board said. That being said, I thought St. Joe would have had at least three PCLs in a row. And again, nothing wrong with that if they did.

 

[House1978]

It seemed like sjp was so inconsistent this year. They beat that team from Louisiana and then got blown out by bosko. Then they turn around and beat one of the best team in the country in St. Joesphs prep and lost to malvern. They crushed La Salle in the regular season and lose to them in the pcl championship. You just don't know what sjp team will show up. What do u think the reason for the inconsistency is? They have the talent, it seems to me that like it might be just inexperience and having a young squad.

 

[tulla]

It seemed like sjp was so inconsistent this year. They beat that team from Louisiana and then got blown out by bosko. Then they turn around and beat one of the best team in the country in St. Joesphs prep and lost to malvern. They crushed La Salle in the regular season and lose to them in the pcl championship. You just don't know what sjp team will show up. What do u think the reason for the inconsistency is? They have the talent, it seems to me that like it might be just inexperience and having a young squad.

That's essentially the same point I made above. (Note that the North Jersey team they beat in St.'s Joe's Regional--not Prep.) And the same inconsistency was apparent in the first LaSalle game where they played great, then very sloppy, then great again. For sure, inexperience was a factor but not the only factor. (LaSalle wasn't any more experienced but was more consistent all year--not nearly as good as SJP when SJP was at its best but clearly a bit better on Saturday.) Maybe it was a bit of a case of having a hard time with the expectations/pressure that comes after winning two state championships in a row. Certainly they looked tight on Saturday. The LaSalle guys will say that's because of how well LaSalle played or because LaSalle has a kind of spell on SJP when the games are close. I'd agree that LaSalle (especially the defense) played well, but the problems of execution and strategy we saw on Saturday were evident at different points throughout the season.

I agree with one of the posters above that having Kidd Jackson very likely would have helped on Saturday.

And a prediction: next year, barring serious injury problems, the Prep will will be a much more consistent team and will get much further.

 

[yesman3]

"And it's good for the PCL that the La Salle-SJP rivalry that some (especially some La Salle people who post regularly on here) thought was going to be one-sided in favor of SJP for a few years is as healthy as ever."

I guess you would have to put Drew Gordon on that list also. Got out thinking the going was gonna be tough!!

Tulla, come on now. That's one reason why this was such a big upset. Everyone was thinking St. Joe had the makings of a thousand year Reich.

Paul,
Maybe the last thing that is healthy for us? LS Administration, whom have been questioned as not as athletically supportive than our Jesuits foes in recent years, may look at this result and say we're just fine. No need to be anymore supportive than we are currently. It's still going to be hard to compete with Prep (in football) in light of the support differential. All the other sports, not so much, we've been dominating "most" of them in recent time.

Damn, we need to get the Lax title back this year, that really haunts us!!

Tulla, btw, appreciate your candor and perspective. We know where your heart is, but you always give a respectful analysis of things.

 

[tulla]

Paul,
Maybe the last thing that is healthy for us? LS Administration, whom have been questioned as not as athletically supportive than our Jesuits foes in recent years, may look at this result and say we're just fine. No need to be anymore supportive than we are currently. It's still going to be hard to compete with Prep (in football) in light of the support differential. All the other sports, not so much, we've been dominating "most" of them in recent time.

Damn, we need to get the Lax title back this year, that really haunts us!!

Tulla, btw, appreciate your candor and perspective. We know where your heart is, but you always give a respectful analysis of things.

Thanks, yesman. It'll be really interesting to see how far LaSalle goes. They've got good spirit.

 

[2loudNclear]

Tulla,

-A couple of quick points. Even bringing up the name Runyan and Lynch in the same conversation is crazy. Missing Runyan on offense in one thing but we all understate what a force he was when he did play defense. The kid was a talent regardless of genetics!

-Strain was a huge miss in this game. Dumond gave it his all but he just lacked the support of Strain. Dumound made Strain good and vice versa.

-If you remember back to the Martin years. We weren't sure what to expect with Martin until he posted his first win in Florida in a very convincing effort. Most teams as well as LaSalle struggled with his ability to make plays out of nothing. In 2013, LaSalle lost the regular season match-up but they made adjustments in the PCL and pulled off a nice victory in OT. Acknowledgement to Lasalle.

-Martin's senior year he actually did the exact same thing with his dual threat abilities. As we know, he wasn't the long run beat you in open space type but he would 5-10-15 yard run you to death. That talent opened the field for his receivers thus making his passing abilities even more deadly. Flat out it was a nice combination. LaSalle just didn't have the talent to overcome Martin's dual threat capabilities that was supported by a very talented team in his senior season.

-Last year was a gift with Clements. He had the size and arm but no one knew if he could put it together as a one year starter. I think even though we verbally supported him, the fact is we were all concerned of his abilities as starter. In fact after the Frankford game the year prior, I truly had questions on his senior season. Looking back, we all realize that he benefited from the he Frankford and Malvern games in his development.

-In the first meeting last year against LaSalle no one expected Clements to shoulder that win and be as effective as he was in that game. LaSalle most certainly did not! In fact in the PCL, LaSalle over prepared for the passing game and paid the price for that over preparation. I expected LaSalle to change their defensive plan in the second half and I expected SJP to go back to the pass. I was wrong and it was a double cross where nothing changed and the beating continued. I was very surprised by that outcome.

-I have to argue the "Shaw wasn't prepared for this year idea" that you posted. Clements sat a ton of second halves last season while Shaw played. I remember the change from the years prior where Martin and Clements never saw the field as back ups during valuable minutes. Unfortunately for Shaw, even healthy, he is not Martin or Clements. There is no one on their present roster who could properly step up this season (not to say next season)and be Clements, Martin, Mornhinweg, McCann, Giubalto.... Face it we have had an outstanding run of QBs.

-This year's PCL Championship all the credit has to go LaSalle. They made all the right adjustments.They new they could focus on the run game and take their chances on the passing game. It was a great adjustment by the coaching staff. They figured out in the first meeting the passing game didn't kill them and the fact that Shaw has been fighting injuries over the last couple of games convinced LaSalle to go all run. Unfortunately, SJP could not reach back and grab the passing game like they have in the past seasons and it hurt. Its a fact we all knew that the lack of a threatening passing game would eventually come to the surface. My hats off to Kevin Shaw he did a nice job with what he was given.

-A final thought! Although it was tough to watch the loss on Saturday, it was a good day for the PCL and the SJP/LaSalle rivalry. Change is good and cycles happen. Now represent the PCL and bring it home.

 

[wcburrs87]

I don't think SJP ever got comfortable at the QB position. Uneven play early, injuries, etc.

I find it odd that when Shaw was injured a month ago they went to senior Longo. No biggie on the surface. Until, Shaw is reinsured and the biggest game of the year, and they opt for the sophomore. It's fair to question that thought process. If McCray is the best option in most important game, then why not give him the reps when Shaw was down. Just a thought...

 

[tulla]

Tulla,

-A couple of quick points. Even bringing up the name Runyan and Lynch in the same conversation is crazy. Missing Runyan on offense in one thing but we all understate what a force he was when he did play defense. The kid was a talent regardless of genetics!

-Strain was a huge miss in this game. Dumond gave it his all but he just lacked the support of Strain. Dumound made Strain good and vice versa.

-If you remember back to the Martin years. We weren't sure what to expect with Martin until he posted his first win in Florida in a very convincing effort. Most teams as well as LaSalle struggled with his ability to make plays out of nothing. In 2013, LaSalle lost the regular season match-up but they made adjustments in the PCL and pulled off a nice victory in OT. Acknowledgement to Lasalle.

-Martin's senior year he actually did the exact same thing with his dual threat abilities. As we know, he wasn't the long run beat you in open space type but he would 5-10-15 yard run you to death. That talent opened the field for his receivers thus making his passing abilities even more deadly. Flat out it was a nice combination. LaSalle just didn't have the talent to overcome Martin's dual threat capabilities that was supported by a very talented team in his senior season.

-Last year was a gift with Clements. He had the size and arm but no one knew if he could put it together as a one year starter. I think even though we verbally supported him, the fact is we were all concerned of his abilities as starter. In fact after the Frankford game the year prior, I truly had questions on his senior season. Looking back, we all realize that he benefited from the he Frankford and Malvern games in his development.

-In the first meeting last year against LaSalle no one expected Clements to shoulder that win and be as effective as he was in that game. LaSalle most certainly did not! In fact in the PCL, LaSalle over prepared for the passing game and paid the price for that over preparation. I expected LaSalle to change their defensive plan in the second half and I expected SJP to go back to the pass. I was wrong and it was a double cross where nothing changed and the beating continued. I was very surprised by that outcome.

-I have to argue the "Shaw wasn't prepared for this year idea" that you posted. Clements sat a ton of second halves last season while Shaw played. I remember the change from the years prior where Martin and Clements never saw the field as back ups during valuable minutes. Unfortunately for Shaw, even healthy, he is not Martin or Clements. There is no one on their present roster who could properly step up this season (not to say next season)and be Clements, Martin, Mornhinweg, McCann, Giubalto.... Face it we have had an outstanding run of QBs.

-This year's PCL Championship all the credit has to go LaSalle. They made all the right adjustments.They new they could focus on the run game and take their chances on the passing game. It was a great adjustment by the coaching staff. They figured out in the first meeting the passing game didn't kill them and the fact that Shaw has been fighting injuries over the last couple of games convinced LaSalle to go all run. Unfortunately, SJP could not reach back and grab the passing game like they have in the past seasons and it hurt. Its a fact we all knew that the lack of a threatening passing game would eventually come to the surface. My hats off to Kevin Shaw he did a nice job with what he was given.

-A final thought! Although it was tough to watch the loss on Saturday, it was a good day for the PCL and the SJP/LaSalle rivalry. Change is good and cycles happen. Now represent the PCL and bring it home.

I mostly agree. I didn't want to suggest Lynch could or would have been Runyan this year if he had been healthy, just that the O-Line seemed to have trouble in some key games and key situations (3rd and three, 3rd and four, 4th and three, ...) esp. against Malvern and obviously on Saturday and perhaps the results would have been a little but still significantly different with the player I've been told Lynch could be. I realize it's all speculation at this point.

About the QBs, yes Shaw got in some time last year but always when the game was decided. Clements played full games against Frankford and Malvern and meaningful minutes against Dallas Jesuit, Ryan and maybe in one or two other games. Confidence is huge at that position and I think we agree that Clements didn't look comfortable till maybe the second half of SJR or until Malvern. From the little I saw and from all I heard about this year, Shaw never got to that level of confidence. That may be nobody's fault--it's a tough situation to start at QB this year given all the expectations--but from what I saw from along the fence and today from the video of Saturday's game I didn't see any QB who looked comfortable or confident, which speaks some to Huck's point.

 

[CYOBALL1]

Why are we bringing up players that are no longer on the team?
I's sure LaSalle would love to have had Heron and Shurmer back as well, right? It's irrelevant.
In my opinion McCray is the best QB on their roster. MUCH better than Shaw. If he plays this season and has some experience the outcome on Saturday could have been different.

 

[JBinPA]

I mostly agree. I didn't want to suggest Lynch could or would have been Runyan this year if he had been healthy, just that the O-Line seemed to have trouble in some key games and key situations (3rd and three, 3rd and four, 4th and three, ...) esp. against Malvern and obviously on Saturday and perhaps the results would have been a little but still significantly different with the player I've been told Lynch could be. I realize it's all speculation at this point.

About the QBs, yes Shaw got in some time last year but always when the game was decided. Clements played full games against Frankford and Malvern and meaningful minutes against Dallas Jesuit, Ryan and maybe in one or two other games. Confidence is huge at that position and I think we agree that Clements didn't look comfortable till maybe the second half of SJR or until Malvern. From the little I saw and from all I heard about this year, Shaw never got to that level of confidence. That may be nobody's fault--it's a tough situation to start at QB this year given all the expectations--but from what I saw from along the fence and today from the video of Saturday's game I didn't see any QB who looked comfortable or confident, which speaks some to Huck's point.

Hey Tulla, you're a class act whose comments are always on point!

 

[tulla]

Hey Tulla, you're a class act whose comments are always on point!

Thanks, JBin. I think we come at things with the same interest: valuing what schools like SJP and LaSalle--and West Catholic too, for that matter--offer, seeing how sports can be a big help, but not wanting the desire to succeed athletically obscure or marginalize what's most important. Getting the balance right is probably getting harder but it's worth the effort.

 

[2loudNclear]

It was a coaching decision to go with Shaw this year and that is on them. I don't even consider myself knowledgeable enough of the situation to pass an opinion on who the starter should have been. I can only comment on what I watched from the sidelines for a majority of games. Also I wasn't pulling the past into the present. My comment was to identify the fact that SJP has had their fare share of very good QBs and unfortunately Shaw has not measured up to the past QBs. I actually think Shaw did a nice job for the most part but he just wasn't a consistent weapon. I/We have to remember that we are discussing a 17 year old kid playing HS football who by all accounts gave his team a chance to win as many games as possible. Again, I applaud his commitment to the Prep.

 

[tulla]

It was a coaching decision to go with Shaw this year and that is on them. I don't even consider myself knowledgeable enough of the situation to pass an opinion on who the starter should have been. I can only comment on what I watched from the sidelines for a majority of games. Also I wasn't pulling the past into the present. My comment was to identify the fact that SJP has had their fare share of very good QBs and unfortunately Shaw has not measured up to the past QBs. I actually think Shaw did a nice job for the most part but he just wasn't a consistent weapon. I/We have to remember that we are discussing a 17 year old kid playing HS football who by all accounts gave his team a chance to win as many games as possible. Again, I applaud his commitment to the Prep.

2loud, I agree with you. I've heard only good things about Shaw and am sorry he had such bad luck with injuries. Who knows, we might be talking about him as the person who made the play that won Saturday's game if he had been able to stay in. And if someone else should have been chosen as this year's starting QB, that's not his fault.

As for CYO's comment about bringing up former QBs, it seems to me natural to note the similarity between this year and last: in each case a state championship Prep team was led by a senior QB with relatively little varsity experience. It's also natural to compare last year's PCL championship game in which the Prep kept scoring and scoring and this year's game in which after the middle of the first quarter the Prep offense scored one TD--and that on a long run from midfield--despite often getting the ball in good field position because of Swift's returns. The offense didn't even come close to another score. So naturally you ask what caused the change from last year to this. I don't think the main reason was a difference in the play of the QBs, but it's fair to think otherwise.

 

[MG355]

This was not a QB issue WHATSOEVER. I think it's so easy to point the finger at that position. It was clear when Shaw came out the team struggled offensively. Made a huge difference. The defense did not play well and o line was terrible

 

[MG355]

Pass defense struggled. More than usual

 

[tulla]

Agreed that Shaw was the best of the three QBs who played Saturday. He had an OK game, not good and not bad. Agreed about the offensive line being dominated. Was it just that LaSalle was better prepared? A difference in intensity? Pass defense had a couple of lapses, most obviously on the dropped pass that would have been a TD. One db had his back turned on the Rinella catch, but that pass was threaded and Rinella made a circus catch.

I don't want to take anything away from LaSalle, but something about how the Prep played in Saturday's game--something akin to flatness, or excessive caution, or inadequate intensity, which was evident in all those times when LaSalle had to make a play or a stop and did so and when the Prep did not, still eludes me. But I'm not going to lose any more sleep over it.

 

[njfan47]

Agreed that Shaw was the best of the three QBs who played Saturday. He had an OK game, not good and not bad. Agreed about the offensive line being dominated. Was it just that LaSalle was better prepared? A difference in intensity? Pass defense had a couple of lapses, most obviously on the dropped pass that would have been a TD. One db had his back turned on the Rinella catch, but that pass was threaded and Rinella made a circus catch.

I don't want to take anything away from LaSalle, but something about how the Prep played in Saturday's game--something akin to flatness, or excessive caution, or inadequate intensity, which was evident in all those times when LaSalle had to make a play or a stop and did so and when the Prep did not, still eludes me. But I'm not going to lose any more sleep over it.

Tulla, is Kerrigan still the QB coach at The Prep?

 

[SJP80]

LaSalle deserves all the credit. It seemed to me that they were the more motivated and prepared team. SJP did not get around an edge or outside of them on defense all day. SJP lived and died all year on the big play all year and did not make enough. Credit LS

 

[tulla]

Tulla, is Kerrigan still the QB coach at The Prep?

As far as I know, he is.

 

[njfan47]

As far as I know, he is.

Was he there when you were at The Prep? Not the easiest-going guy in the world, but is a stickler for details, so it's easy to see why they have had so many good quarterbacks.

 

[tulla]

Was he there when you were at The Prep? Not the easiest-going guy in the world, but is a stickler for details, so it's easy to see why they have had so many good quarterbacks.

Our times overlapped some but I graduated just before he did. I'm not sure which coach has done what when--there obviously was a big turnover when Brooks left and even during Brooks' time there were changes from year to year, as there have been under Infante. (Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Devlin was the OC for a while and had a big hand in coaching the QBs a dozen years ago or so.)

I suspect the Prep was caught in a dilemma this year. The coaching staff probably felt an understandable obligation to give the two senior QBs, especially Shaw, the opportunities they worked hard for over three years, but the sophomore QBs brought skills the senior QBs didn't have. For sure Kidd Jackson provided evidence of these skills at various points this year and even last year while McCray is said by people who are much closer to the team than I am to have shown lots of promise. It's easy for someone like me to say the coaches should have done this or that, but sometimes all you can do is play a hunch. And again, we might not even be having this discussion if Shaw hadn't been injured against Judge and again on Saturday.

The head-scratcher was the play of the OL. But if the LaSalle D was doing something they hadn't been prepared for, the onus lies mainly on the coaching staff. I played on the OL and can remember that if the defense was lined up in a way different from what we expected and was doing things we hadn't expected, we needed immediate help from the coaches. Maybe the Prep coaches provided the help needed, but it tells you something when a runner like Swift keeps getting stuffed.

 

[njfan47]

Our times overlapped some but I graduated just before he did. I'm not sure which coach has done what when--there obviously was a big turnover when Brooks left and even during Brooks' time there were changes from year to year, as there have been under Infante. (Tell me if I'm wrong but I think Devlin was the OC for a while and had a big hand in coaching the QBs a dozen years ago or so.)

I suspect the Prep was caught in a dilemma this year. The coaching staff probably felt an understandable obligation to give the two senior QBs, especially Shaw, the opportunities they worked hard for over three years, but the sophomore QBs brought skills the senior QBs didn't have. For sure Kidd Jackson provided evidence of these skills at various points this year and even last year while McCray is said by people who are much closer to the team than I am to have shown lots of promise. It's easy for someone like me to say the coaches should have done this or that, but sometimes all you can do is play a hunch. And again, we might not even be having this discussion if Shaw hadn't been injured against Judge and again on Saturday.

The head-scratcher was the play of the OL. But if the LaSalle D was doing something they hadn't been prepared for, the onus lies mainly on the coaching staff. I played on the OL and can remember that if the defense was lined up in a way different from what we expected and was doing things we hadn't expected, we needed immediate help from the coaches. Maybe the Prep coaches provided the help needed, but it tells you something when a runner like Swift keeps getting stuffed.

Yes, I believe Devlin was the offensive coordinator and I'm not sure if Kerrigan and Devlin were there at the same time, but I think they were. Kerrigan has been there since at least 2006. But watching Brooks run the practice was a real treat. He basically ran everything. During live scrimmages, the other coaches were pretty much spectators. This was during fall practice of 2006.

Always enjoy your insights Tulla. The only bad thing about leaving the Philly area for Florida is not being able to see Prep, Wood, LaSalle, etc. One game a year when I am up there is not enough. From afar, it seems that Prep will have a very good shot at Hershey in 2016, as long as Infante stays around.

 

[MG355]

Shaw was plagued with injuries. If we go back to the 3rd game of the season against the Ignatius team from Ohio. He threw for 4Tds and really ripped that defense apart. I thought McCray brought the best "skill set" and I think everyone would agree there. But there's a lot more to the position than that. Shaw is a very talented QB himself. Just didn't workout this year.

 

[MG355]

And Kidd Jackson is no passer. The kid can't even stay on the field because of grades. He is a kick returner type of player

 

[Gang $$ Green]

Man you guys are tough. They lost on a last drive miracle to a top 15 team in the state and everyone wants to know what's wrong and find the problem. Every team has some holes here and there and if they run up against a team that can stop their strength you are only as good as your weakness at high school level. Prep ran up against a team that did good job neutralizing Prep's strengths and exploiting some lesser spots. Still were down 14 and needed a lot of things to go right to win.

I don't care who you are if you run up against a team with similar talent and are one dimensional the peter principal will dictate that you will need to be succesful in the other offensive discipline where you are weak. They were quite good enough in throw game and had some defensive issues all year. They still were a dam good football team. Probably a top 20 team in the HISTORY of their program so slow down.

Other thing is the whole the offensive line stunk and who coached them and who coached the QBs. You could have Hudson Houck as the Oline coach and Jim Brown as your running back. If the other team is similar in ability and know you have to run it you are going to struggle. John Connors is an ecellent coach. They have real good talent on the Oline. LaSalle is good too and outplayed them on one day. No shame in that.

Bill Kerrigan been around since beginning of Brooks. Good old school prep guy who has been around forever including long before the expectations are what they are now. To assign blame or success on QB play based upon Bill Kerrigan makes me wonder what you guys are watching at practice. Prep one of best coached teams around. If you are a prep guy enjoy this period of success and be thankful for guys who dedicate so much time to make Prep football what it is for very little personal gain. Losing to LaSalle isn't a crisis. Sounds like LSU level insanity.

 

[tulla]

Man you guys are tough. They lost on a last drive miracle to a top 15 team in the state and everyone wants to know what's wrong and find the problem. Every team has some holes here and there and if they run up against a team that can stop their strength you are only as good as your weakness at high school level. Prep ran up against a team that did good job neutralizing Prep's strengths and exploiting some lesser spots. Still were down 14 and needed a lot of things to go right to win.

I don't care who you are if you run up against a team with similar talent and are one dimensional the peter principal will dictate that you will need to be succesful in the other offensive discipline where you are weak. They were quite good enough in throw game and had some defensive issues all year. They still were a dam good football team. Probably a top 20 team in the HISTORY of their program so slow down.

Other thing is the whole the offensive line stunk and who coached them and who coached the QBs. You could have Hudson Houck as the Oline coach and Jim Brown as your running back. If the other team is similar in ability and know you have to run it you are going to struggle. John Connors is an ecellent coach. They have real good talent on the Oline. LaSalle is good too and outplayed them on one day. No shame in that.

Bill Kerrigan been around since beginning of Brooks. Good old school prep guy who has been around forever including long before the expectations are what they are now. To assign blame or success on QB play based upon Bill Kerrigan makes me wonder what you guys are watching at practice. Prep one of best coached teams around. If you are a prep guy enjoy this period of success and be thankful for guys who dedicate so much time to make Prep football what it is for very little personal gain. Losing to LaSalle isn't a crisis. Sounds like LSU level insanity.

Gang Green, I obviously can't speak for anyone else but my own interest is less in assigning blame than in seeking to reduce my level of perplexity.

You say that the two teams had similar talent levels. The LaSalle guys have certainly never said that, and I don't think any careful comparison of their talent levels would conclude that the Prep doesn't have a clear advantage in talent--maybe not great but clear. And I doubt anyone from SJP would deny that this year's team was quite inconsistent throughout the season. From game to game there were significant swings. Infante himself said the same after the SJR game: the Prep could beat anybody and they could lose to anybody. Such inconsistency inevitably raises questions. I also think it's fair to question some of the decisions that were made at a coaching level as long as it's fair and not nasty or personal.

Bottom line: I think Infante and his coaches have done a great job in the time they've been there, in relation both to football-specific matters and to the "life matters" anybody who works with high school kids has to deal with. I have some idea of just how hard it was to pick up the pieces in 2010, and I also know that, despite what some people think, coaching at the Prep has some major challenges--not the same ones as coaching at many other schools but formidable nonetheless. One of those challenges is managing the program's high profile and the high expectations many of us have of the team. I don't imagine the questions some of us are raising this week aren't questions people more closely involved in the program--I'm just an alumnus and a small donor--are also asking.

 

[wcburrs87]

LS was equal to SJP on the LOS. At least equal to. They had the better QB. They didn't have a Swift type talent, but Madden, Rinella, Jones, Eubanks, Holland, Headen, Trainer are t chopped-liver as a unit. Defensively you can draw comparisons, too. I think the perception that SJP's talent advantage was clear, but not sure that was the reality.

 

[tulla]

LS was equal to SJP on the LOS. At least equal to. They had the better QB. They didn't have a Swift type talent, but Madden, Rinella, Jones, Eubanks, Holland, Headen, Trainer are t chopped-liver as a unit. Defensively you can draw comparisons, too. I think the perception that SJP's talent advantage was clear, but not sure that was the reality.

Huck, SJP had won the previous five games and won the regular season game five weeks earlier fairly easily. I don't put much stock in JV or freshman games, but it's been several years since LaSalle won one of those games against the Prep and nearly all the scores have been very one-sided.. And when comparing defenses (especially linebackers and defensive backs), I have a hard time not seeing a talent advantage for SJP. Plus, I don't think LaSalle had a defensive player who matched DuMond.

I'm not arguing SJP had a huge talent advantage, just a decided one. I think anyone who watched the October 17 game would have agreed and, even though injuries might have narrowed the gap, it's hard to think the difference disappeared in a month.

 

[wcburrs87]

I'm just saying at the two most important positions in HS football (QB, LOS) that LS was stronger at one and at minimum equal at the other. Those areas can help offset the advantage a team might ace in other areas.

 

[LPtown]

I'm not arguing SJP had a huge talent advantage, just a decided one. I think anyone who watched the October 17 game would have agreed and, even though injuries might have narrowed the gap, it's hard to think the difference disappeared in a month.

Not trying to pick a fight here, but I was at the October 17th game and I don't agree.

While SJP might have had the two most talented players on the field last Saturday, in the aggregate LS had more talent on the field than SJP. The fact that you do not acknowledge this is the reason why you are so perplexed by the loss.