The problem (and solution) with PA high school football

wilson8500

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The old man returns. The problem with PA is that the state population is shrinking in many places especially out in the western part of the state. All of the "hunkies" and their sons are gone. The WPIAL is a shell of it's former self. When I graduated high school in 1989 the WPIAL and city league had something like 60+ kids sign D-1 scholarships. That same area gets less than half that now.
When I was a kid they didn't have the Majors rule. Back in the day they handed scholarships out like candy. But I see your point, the mills and factories closed and in came the soccer moms. It's not iron city anymore... it's the Madden kids that now play football on their TV. If you think western pa is bad, you should see the suburban one now. Gone are the days of Mike Pettine and CBW. (FEW EXCEPTIONS) Hell... I've see coaches that can't recognize an unbalanced line. So the football people do what they can... maybe SJP or other catholic and private schools. It's never gonna be the same! Oh and one more thing.... GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
 
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2020sports

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The old man returns. The problem with PA is that the state population is shrinking in many places especially out in the western part of the state. All of the "hunkies" and their sons are gone. The WPIAL is a shell of it's former self. When I graduated high school in 1989 the WPIAL and city league had something like 60+ kids sign D-1 scholarships. That same area gets less than half that now.
Yes! Sadly, less people, less kids, and less "football crazy" people. In the 70s and 90s, most PA folks loved football. Now, in HS, football is competing w soccer, lacrosse and ice hockey. Tough to fill all those sports, with "less kids" and a shrinking tax base. AND more of those kids are only playing one or two sports by the time they hit HS.
When we were kids they didn't have the Jackie Sherill rule. Back in the day they handed scholarships out like candy. But I see your point, the mills and factories closed and in came the soccer moms. It's not iron city anymore... it's the Madden kids that now play football on their TV. If you think western pa is bad, you should see the suburban one now. Gone are the days of Mike Pettine and CBW. (FEW EXCEPTIONS) Hell... I've see coaches that can't recognize an unbalanced line. So the football people do what they can... maybe SJP or other catholic and private schools. It's never gonna be the same! Oh and one more thing.... GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
 

sammyk

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Oct 26, 2001
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When I was a kid they didn't have the Jackie Sherill rule. Back in the day they handed scholarships out like candy. But I see your point, the mills and factories closed and in came the soccer moms. It's not iron city anymore... it's the Madden kids that now play football on their TV. If you think western pa is bad, you should see the suburban one now. Gone are the days of Mike Pettine and CBW. (FEW EXCEPTIONS) Hell... I've see coaches that can't recognize an unbalanced line. So the football people do what they can... maybe SJP or other catholic and private schools. It's never gonna be the same! Oh and one more thing.... GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
Coaching has fallen off as well but there is a reason for that as well. IN PA football coaches are recycled .
 

northalleghenytiger

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Coaching has fallen off as well but there is a reason for that as well. IN PA football coaches are recycled .
if that’s true, then we need to expand upon my plan.

step 1. Get Mike Tomlin and the eagles coach and/or PA college coaches to advocate for high school football. I believe that will help the coaching problem.

step 2. Combine schools to make better teams
 
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wilson8500

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if that’s true, then we need to expand upon my plan.

step 1. Get Mike Tomlin and the eagles coach and/or PA college coaches to advocate for high school football. I believe that will help the coaching problem.

step 2. Combine schools to make better teams
Nobody cares....... I'll pizz people off but I'll say it again. The liberals who control education in this state don't care about a powerhouse football program. The administrations, school boards and teachers are not into winning. It's all about a socialistic approach where everyone is equal. In PA it's OVER! There's a reason why pa has slipped in regards to football scholarships... Colleges compare it to TX, FL and to an extent CA and see these kids aren't coached very well coached. It take a freak athlete to get a full ride in PA now a days. Not to bust your bubble but D1 Colleges don't have the time to coach kids up to those states I mentioned football knowledge. It just bigger in the southern part of the country. Football is king. It's over man!
 

northalleghenytiger

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Nobody cares....... I'll pizz people off but I'll say it again. The liberals who control education in this state don't care about a powerhouse football program. The administrations, school boards and teachers are not into winning. It's all about a socialistic approach where everyone is equal. In PA it's OVER! There's a reason why pa has slipped in regards to football scholarships... Colleges compare it to TX, FL and to an extent CA and see these kids aren't coached very well coached. It take a freak athlete to get a full ride in PA now a days. Not to bust your bubble but D1 Colleges don't have the time to coach kids up to those states I mentioned football knowledge. It just bigger in the southern part of the country. Football is king. It's over man!
No man, it’s never over.

“whatever it takes” -Tony stark
 

wilson8500

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No man, it’s never over.

“whatever it takes” -Tony stark
Let me give you some facts. Let's take 4A until 5 and 6A were added. It was basically Pittsburgh team winning half the championships. But then CBW and Pettine went on a run. Winning 4 and losing a 5th in OT. Since Pettine/Carey retired or moved on it took exactly 4 years for district one to become non factors. My opinion is that the coaches in the suburban one were no longer held to a standard of coaching that Petting brought to the league. There was Schmitt from Neshaminy who won a title, but he moved onto Imhotep... BANG winners. Theres Dick Beck from North Penn but Mike Carey was with him when they won their title. Carey moved onto Wood... BANG winners. That's when Wood and SJP took over the east. Look where the scholarships go to... teams I named. Did you know that in this year's draft there wasn't a single player drafted that played HS football in PA. DONT TELL ME SCHOOLS CARE ABOUT DEVELOPING TALENT AND WINNING!
 
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2020sports

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Let me give you some facts. Let's take 4A until 5 and 6A were added. It was basically Pittsburgh team winning half the championships. But then CBW and Pettine went on a run. Winning 4 and losing a 5th in OT. Since Pettine/Carey retired or moved on it took exactly 4 years for district one to become non factors. My opinion is that the coaches in the suburban one were no longer held to a standard of coaching that Petting brought to the league. There was Schmitt from Neshaminy who won a title, but he moved onto Imhotep... BANG winners. Theres Dick Beck from North Penn but Mike Carey was with him when they won their title. Carey moved onto Wood... BANG winners. That's when Wood and SJP took over the east. Look where the scholarships go to... teams I named. Did you know that in this year's draft there wasn't a single player drafted that played HS football in PA. DONT TELL ME SCHOOLS CARE ABOUT DEVELOPING TALENT AND WINNING!
Perfect illustration of what Wilson is saying is Pine-Richland. There was never a "smoking gun" of any problem with Coach Kasper. He was not perfect- but what coach is? Bottom line, is the leaders at PR did not like how "seriously he took football success." Yea- "trying too hard to be successful." What a ridiculous idea??

The stupid admin literally said, publicly "he cares too much about winning." Lebo and PR were the only ones in the last 10 years "committed enough" to be great, and "knock off the bog dog" of SJP. And the PR leaders have ripped apart the program.
 

wilson8500

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Perfect illustration of what Wilson is saying is Pine-Richland. There was never a "smoking gun" of any problem with Coach Kasper. He was not perfect- but what coach is? Bottom line, is the leaders at PR did not like how "seriously he took football success." Yea- "trying too hard to be successful." What a ridiculous idea??

The stupid admin literally said, publicly "he cares too much about winning." Lebo and PR were the only ones in the last 10 years "committed enough" to be great, and "knock off the bog dog" of SJP. And the PR leaders have ripped apart the program.
Im with you...The Central Bucks School Board systematically dismantled the CBW football program. They just waited for the right time and BOOM GONE!
 

RoverNation05

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you know that in this year's draft there wasn't a single player drafted that played HS football in PA. DONT TELL ME SCHOOLS CARE ABOUT DEVELOPING TALENT AND WINNING!
Didn’t Jahan Dotson go in the first round of this year’s draft? Pretty sure I watched him play a lot of high school football in Pennsylvania.

The population decline, mentioned here a lot, is certainly a big cause. But it’s also where the population decline has happened. Coal region football used to produce tons of talent and elite teams in Pennsylania’s heyday. As that part of the state has shrank, those programs and players are gone too. Same thing is happening in Western Pennsylvania.

I always make the comparisons here, which people are probably sick of, but what makes Pennsylvania the best wrestling state is the “all of the above” nature of talent dispersal. District 7 and 11 are awesome, but 4, 3, 10, 6, even some 1 all produce State champs, Division I wrestlers, and NCAA all Americans. It’s a whole state eco-system that just doesn’t exist in football.
 
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wilson8500

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Didn’t Jahan Dotson go in the first round of this year’s draft? Pretty sure I watched him play a lot of high school football in Pennsylvania.

The population decline, mentioned here a lot, is certainly a big cause. But it’s also where the population decline has happened. Coal region football used to produce tons of talent and elite teams in Pennsylania’s heyday. As that part of the state has shrank, those programs and players are gone too. Same thing is happening in Western Pennsylvania.

I always make the comparisons here, which people are probably sick of, but what makes Pennsylvania the best wrestling state is the “all of the above” nature of talent dispersal. District 7 and 11 are awesome, but 4, 3, 10, 6, even some 1 all produce State champs, Division I wrestlers, and NCAA all Americans. It’s a whole state eco-system that just doesn’t exist in football.
You're right... stuck my foot in my mouth. We had 5. Take a look at the ratio of population to the numer of drafted in other states. You can see where football is emphasized.
 

northalleghenytiger

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Didn’t Jahan Dotson go in the first round of this year’s draft? Pretty sure I watched him play a lot of high school football in Pennsylvania.

The population decline, mentioned here a lot, is certainly a big cause. But it’s also where the population decline has happened. Coal region football used to produce tons of talent and elite teams in Pennsylania’s heyday. As that part of the state has shrank, those programs and players are gone too. Same thing is happening in Western Pennsylvania.

I always make the comparisons here, which people are probably sick of, but what makes Pennsylvania the best wrestling state is the “all of the above” nature of talent dispersal. District 7 and 11 are awesome, but 4, 3, 10, 6, even some 1 all produce State champs, Division I wrestlers, and NCAA all Americans. It’s a whole state eco-system that just doesn’t exist in football.
About wrestling, I’ve noticed more girls joining. In fact, North Allegheny and canon Mac had whole teams that competed against each other. I feel like girls should have made their own football league by now. If PIAA is the first one to make an all girls league, maybe that would make PA a football safe haven.
 

RoverNation05

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Aug 22, 2010
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About wrestling, I’ve noticed more girls joining. In fact, North Allegheny and canon Mac had whole teams that competed against each other. I feel like girls should have made their own football league by now. If PIAA is the first one to make an all girls league, maybe that would make PA a football safe haven.
It’s a big push by USA Wrestling nationally. It’s an Olympic sport, so they’re trying to start developmental pipelines for the womens national team. Plus, it is a survival thing for wrestling at the scholastic level. It’s not a gender equity net negative if there is also a woman’s team.

PA is actually way behind the curve. We’re one of the only power states that doesn’t sponsor girls wrestling a stand-alone sport (New Jersey, for instance, holds their own girls state championships). The PIAA rule is you need at least 100 programs for consideration - I think we’re up to 58. Brooke Zumas (the Parkland girls coach who’s done a lot of work with USA wrestling) and Pat Tocci (AD at Warwick, formerly the head of the national wrestling coaches association) run the task force that is trying to get the PIAA to sanction girls wrestling and have done a fantastic job growing it and getting programs launched around the state. North Allegheny and Canon Mac were big deals because they’re traditional powers in the state. We only have Easton and Parkland in the Lehigh Valley, we need more in our neck of the woods.
 
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shfoot

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If we get everyone on this forum to by in, we could spread our “influence”. Take some time this Friday when your at a game and get this discussion going. We could “usher” in a new era of PA football
We could "usher" in a new era of PA EDUCATION! football is secondary in PA.
 

sammyk

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if that’s true, then we need to expand upon my plan.

step 1. Get Mike Tomlin and the eagles coach and/or PA college coaches to advocate for high school football. I believe that will help the coaching problem.

step 2. Combine schools to make better teams
I am all for that
 

sammyk

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Oct 26, 2001
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Nobody cares....... I'll pizz people off but I'll say it again. The liberals who control education in this state don't care about a powerhouse football program. The administrations, school boards and teachers are not into winning. It's all about a socialistic approach where everyone is equal. In PA it's OVER! There's a reason why pa has slipped in regards to football scholarships... Colleges compare it to TX, FL and to an extent CA and see these kids aren't coached very well coached. It take a freak athlete to get a full ride in PA now a days. Not to bust your bubble but D1 Colleges don't have the time to coach kids up to those states I mentioned football knowledge. It just bigger in the southern part of the country. Football is king. It's over man!
It's not about that. The Jimmy's and Joes are not there anymore. The WPIAL and City League are not what they once were not even close due to loss of population. District 10 Erie area has lost population Johnstown is a ghost town anymore. These places were football hotbeds until the late 1990's when people like me left for the sunbelt states. It's just how the cookie is crumbling in PA. Funny you bring up policies but in the county I grew up in(Greene ) in the mid 1990's the county comish wanted to bring in a chicken plant to create jobs. I remember having a conversation with an older gentleman at the time and all he did was complain on how this would be left for the the older people to pay for. I said that if something was not done the young people would continue to leave. The vote did not pas the county commish was defeated next election and since 2000 Greene County PA has lost over 10,000 in population. That story is the same in alot of PA counties
 
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