The problem (and solution) with PA high school football

[BradlyPitt]

What other sport are we good at? It’s certainly not wrestling, basketball or hockey.

Penn State has won numerous national titles in wrestling, tons of wrestlers in PA go on to D1 schools, Spencer Lee went to Iowa and won wrestlings eqvivalent to the heisman, he was the number 1 wrestling prospect in the nation while at Franklin Regional

basketball? Imhotep, Neuman Goretti and Roman Catholic have been top 10 teams in the nation many times

hockey? where in America is the area known for hockey???? Connor Mcdavid played in Erie if that counts for anything but he's from Canada

 

[northalleghenytiger]

Penn State has won numerous national titles in wrestling, tons of wrestlers in PA go on to D1 schools, Spencer Lee went to Iowa and won wrestlings eqvivalent to the heisman, he was the number 1 wrestling prospect in the nation while at Franklin Regional

basketball? Imhotep, Neuman Goretti and Roman Catholic have been top 10 teams in the nation many times

hockey? where in America is the area known for hockey???? Connor Mcdavid played in Erie if that counts for anything but he's from Canada

The last time we had a basketball team in the top 10 was in the 2018-2019 season. PA is average at basketball.

Minnesota is good at hockey. And our state has 2 nhl teams with not much to show for it talent wise.

 

[BradlyPitt]

The last time we had a basketball team in the top 10 was in the 2018-2019 season. PA is average at basketball.

Minnesota is good at hockey. And our state has 2 nhl teams with not much to show for it talent wise.

Crosby played hockey in Minnesota when he was a teen, he's Canadien

how many Pa guys were on those two Villanova national titles teams?

does Minnesota have good hockey or just Canadien's playing hockey in Minnesota?

on top of that, who the hell cares about high school hockey?

 

[Stalker]

LOL only high school football fans talk about this or want this to happen

nobody in the West Jefferson Hills school district wants this, stop being silly

Yes New, stop being silly or we'll take away your cookies!

 

[D1 Transplant]

I'll add my two cents. Pennsylvania isn't any good in wrestling??? Really? Pa is the best wrestling state in the country. You can take the best wrestlers in Pa and they would beat any state. The only other team that could stay close is Pennsylvania's second team. Now for football. If you look at the best high school teams from Florida, Georgia, Texas, and such, you'll notice the best teams each year are usually the same teams each year. Florida and Georgia have open enrollment and huge transfer problems, Texas is just big enrollment high schools, which goes to your original point. High School football is a culture thing down south, and I would bet there is a lot of, let's say questionable abuses of rules down there that make such things up here look trivial. As for Cali, they are recruiting juggernauts, the likes of which we don't have here.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

I'll add my two cents. Pennsylvania isn't any good in wrestling??? Really? Pa is the best wrestling state in the country. You can take the best wrestlers in Pa and they would beat any state. The only other team that could stay close is Pennsylvania's second team. Now for football. If you look at the best high school teams from Florida, Georgia, Texas, and such, you'll notice the best teams each year are usually the same teams each year. Florida and Georgia have open enrollment and huge transfer problems, Texas is just big enrollment high schools, which goes to your original point. High School football is a culture thing down south, and I would bet there is a lot of, let's say questionable abuses of rules down there that make such things up here look trivial. As for Cali, they are recruiting juggernauts, the likes of which we don't have here.

I stand corrected. But if we’re so good at wrestling, why are we average at football? Certainly wrestling would carry over to football. We should have the best tacklers in the country!

 

[2020sports]

I'll add my two cents. Pennsylvania isn't any good in wrestling??? Really? Pa is the best wrestling state in the country. You can take the best wrestlers in Pa and they would beat any state. The only other team that could stay close is Pennsylvania's second team. Now for football. If you look at the best high school teams from Florida, Georgia, Texas, and such, you'll notice the best teams each year are usually the same teams each year. Florida and Georgia have open enrollment and huge transfer problems, Texas is just big enrollment high schools, which goes to your original point. High School football is a culture thing down south, and I would bet there is a lot of, let's say questionable abuses of rules down there that make such things up here look trivial. As for Cali, they are recruiting juggernauts, the likes of which we don't have here.

D1- well said- yes Texas and Florida have "big enrollments" which goes to my point. those areas have growing populations, and Pa is shrinking in population.

Regarding the "wrestling comment" I agree 100%... but the dude u are responding to is the same one that said that said that Na is #1 and will win the state championship, likely over SJP??

Its a shame s/o is trying to mess up this message board, post illogical things, maybe just to antagonize the rest of us...

 

[northalleghenytiger]

D1- well said- yes Texas and Florida have "big enrollments" which goes to my point. those areas have growing populations, and Pa is shrinking in population.

Regarding the "wrestling comment" I agree 100%... but the dude u are responding to is the same one that said that said that Na is #1 and will win the state championship, likely over SJP??

Its a shame s/o is trying to mess up this message board, post illogical things, maybe just to antagonize the rest of us...

Believe me, I’m not trying to antagonize. I just want to discuss. I was misinformed about wrestling, and yes I do have faith that NA will beat SJP in the finals this year. I believe they can do it.

 

[Hausmann1978]

Believe me, I’m not trying to antagonize. I just want to discuss. I was misinformed about wrestling, and yes I do have faith that NA will beat SJP in the finals this year. I believe they can do it.

It does seem that whoever comes out of district 7 is the one capable of beating SJP. Other the PR and Mt Lebo no one's had success.

 

[RoverNation05]

I stand corrected. But if we’re so good at wrestling, why are we average at football? Certainly wrestling would carry over to football. We should have the best tacklers in the country!

Pennsylvania wrestling is the best from a technical side because we're the best state at teaching and emphasizing mat wrestling. Other cultural components contribute to PA's dominance, but from a purely on the mat standpoint, that's where we separate from the other power states at the next level. Last year at NCAA's, Pennsylvania natives accounted for 47 qualifiers, no other state had more than 32. That is pretty representative of every year. I can't find an updated list, but as of 2014, Pennsylvania had produced over 300 different individual All Americans, no other state had more than 180.

And aren't you from North Allegheny, one of the historically great wrestling programs? Like, recently coached by an NCAA champ and Olympian (Sunny Abe) and currently coached by an NA alum who was a state champ for the team that finished #1 in the country?

The biggest thing Pennsylvania could do to improve it's national profile in football is to add spring football (7-on-7) as an officially sponsored scholastic sport, like Texas does. Also, people who care about high school football nationally generally don't care about how teams from your state do in competition with other teams from out of state - what they're looking at is how many blue chippers are coming out of your state and playing at the next level. Bosco and Bergen beat up teams from all over the country, nobody thinks New Jersey has better football than those states.

 

[2020sports]

Believe me, I’m not trying to antagonize. I just want to discuss. I was misinformed about wrestling, and yes I do have faith that NA will beat SJP in the finals this year. I believe they can do it.

phew, wow... okay, i will take the bait, hoping this a "legit discussion."

tiger-- I appreciate and hope u are being serious and just "want to discuss" and not argue and antagonize- but NA is not a "state-wide" power anymore, not even a "local District 7" power anymore. This message board is state-wide, and the people and topics rarely discuss NA football, just like we rarely discuss many other WPIAL teams, cuz they are just not "interesting and relevant" on a state-wide basis.

You, and "we" gotta use INFO to make statements, not just "hopes and feelings"- I went back and checked, yes, 2012 was a great year for NA, but those days are over. SJP and state titles are just a "whole different ballgame." NA has not even "played in" a state playoff game in 10 years, let alone win a final. Na is not longer a "championship program." Obviously, who knows, maybe things will change this year, once they play PCC and SV we will know better- but all signs suggest "no." SINCE 2012, NA's post-season record is 8 wins and 9 losses. the staff (ie Walker) and the "program" just does not do the "extra stuff needed" to compete at the highest level. Since 2012, the following coaches have much better success than Walker- Palko, Cherpak, Lyons, and Kasper. Those dudes have all won "district titles" and State titles- some have 4 or 5- in that span Walker and NA have zero- no offense intended to you or the school, just the "fasts." And, not to get into a whole "Kasper and PR" discussion, but one of the MAIN REASONS he was fired- Kasper was trying to build and "maintain" a program of "national significance" and the admin of PR just did not want that. they literally said, in public interviews, he "was too focused on winning." In order to "beat the best you gotta play the best." that's what Kasper was trying to do and the admin of PR did not like it- the "program" was "too high profile." Every time he tired to get admin to agree to a "national level" game, they insisted it had to be played at PR- they did not want Pr to have to travel- too much of a hassle, not a high priority. I'm pretty sure the same sentiment exists at NA- because the record reflects it- 7-4 is a "good year." and "making the playoffs" is a good year. A week ago, I made comments about Walker- that he is lazy- just exaggerating, but my point is the standard now at NA is "winning records" not championships.

I'm pretty sure IF your NA wins WPIAL (best of 5 teams), i do not think they could beat Harrisburg, so they won't even get a chance to play SJP.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

phew, wow... okay, i will take the bait, hoping this a "legit discussion."

tiger-- I appreciate and hope u are being serious and just "want to discuss" and not argue and antagonize- but NA is not a "state-wide" power anymore, not even a "local District 7" power anymore. This message board is state-wide, and the people and topics rarely discuss NA football, just like we rarely discuss many other WPIAL teams, cuz they are just not "interesting and relevant" on a state-wide basis.

You, and "we" gotta use INFO to make statements, not just "hopes and feelings"- I went back and checked, yes, 2012 was a great year for NA, but those days are over. SJP and state titles are just a "whole different ballgame." NA has not even "played in" a state playoff game in 10 years, let alone win a final. Na is not longer a "championship program." Obviously, who knows, maybe things will change this year, once they play PCC and SV we will know better- but all signs suggest "no." SINCE 2012, NA's post-season record is 8 wins and 9 losses. the staff (ie Walker) and the "program" just does not do the "extra stuff needed" to compete at the highest level. Since 2012, the following coaches have much better success than Walker- Palko, Cherpak, Lyons, and Kasper. Those dudes have all won "district titles" and State titles- some have 4 or 5- in that span Walker and NA have zero- no offense intended to you or the school, just the "fasts." And, not to get into a whole "Kasper and PR" discussion, but one of the MAIN REASONS he was fired- Kasper was trying to build and "maintain" a program of "national significance" and the admin of PR just did not want that. they literally said, in public interviews, he "was too focused on winning." In order to "beat the best you gotta play the best." that's what Kasper was trying to do and the admin of PR did not like it- the "program" was "too high profile." Every time he tired to get admin to agree to a "national level" game, they insisted it had to be played at PR- they did not want Pr to have to travel- too much of a hassle, not a high priority. I'm pretty sure the same sentiment exists at NA- because the record reflects it- 7-4 is a "good year." and "making the playoffs" is a good year. A week ago, I made comments about Walker- that he is lazy- just exaggerating, but my point is the standard now at NA is "winning records" not championships.

I'm pretty sure IF your NA wins WPIAL (best of 5 teams), i do not think they could beat Harrisburg, so they won't even get a chance to play SJP.

I feel what your saying. But when looking at the path for NA
No pine richland
Mt lebanons generational team is gone
Pcc is likely one year from actually being good
Seneca will be good, but I don’t think as good as NA

as far as state playoffs are concerned, Harrisburg will be a challenge. However, looking at their playoff game last year, they seemed very undisciplined. I think NA can take advantage of that.

so that takes us to sjp. If there 2 best defensive players are out for long, NA could have the possibility of catching them off guard.

i really feel like NA has a solid shot.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

Yes New, stop being silly or we'll take away your cookies!

Cookies? WTF

 

[2020sports]

I feel what your saying. But when looking at the path for NA
No pine richland
Mt lebanons generational team is gone
Pcc is likely one year from actually being good
Seneca will be good, but I don’t think as good as NA

as far as state playoffs are concerned, Harrisburg will be a challenge. However, looking at their playoff game last year, they seemed very undisciplined. I think NA can take advantage of that.

so that takes us to sjp. If there 2 best defensive players are out for long, NA could have the possibility of catching them off guard.

i really feel like NA has a solid shot.

Ok, I gotcha, I see what you are sayin- but still- it's not just the "path" its the skills and experience- but at the end of the season, they will be plenty tested- Lebo and PT (the defending 5 and 6A champs) then finishing w SV. Again, just hard to go from not even winning WPIAL, to then winning states. I guess this is why they say "that's why they play the game."

 

[BradlyPitt]

if you think about it NA has been huge underachievers when you consider they are the biggest school in the WPIAL and a very wealthy district

 

[BradlyPitt]

Ok, I gotcha, I see what you are sayin- but still- it's not just the "path" its the skills and experience- but at the end of the season, they will be plenty tested- Lebo and PT (the defending 5 and 6A champs) then finishing w SV. Again, just hard to go from not even winning WPIAL, to then winning states. I guess this is why they say "that's why they play the game."

i agree with what you are saying but Lebo got mercy ruled by Central in the semis in 2020, then won state last year

that's another reason why I don't consider them to be one of the all time teams

 

[northalleghenytiger]

if you think about it NA has been huge underachievers when you consider they are the biggest school in the WPIAL and a very wealthy district

I’d consider Lebo and PCC wealthier than NA

and for PR, it’s not everyday you luck out and get 2 nfl qbs back to back… and the third one was a wrestler who surpassed them somehow…

 

[northalleghenytiger]

i agree with what you are saying but Lebo got mercy ruled by Central in the semis in 2020, then won state last year

that's another reason why I don't consider them to be one of the all time teams

I’ll give last year Lebo team credit. They stomped PCC in the final.

the only team I hate more than PR is PCC

 

[new2pa]

I’d consider Lebo and PCC wealthier than NA

and for PR, it’s not everyday you luck out and get 2 nfl qbs back to back… and the third one was a wrestler who surpassed them somehow…

You need to go back and watch DiNucci as a sophomore and part of Junior year. Not good. And Jurkovec his sophomore year passing. Spencer WAY better early than either of them. He's just 5'9 and the other were not!

PCC football team is not wealthy by any stretch. And they have bad facilities.

SV and Lebo have the best facilities - SV poured a tone of money into a second field and I think improved fieldhouse, plus new baseball and softball field. NA is probably next. PR probably up with SV and Lebo. That stadium is awesome - but it was built 20 years ago which is crazy to think.

 

[Thegreenmissle]

You need to go back and watch DiNucci as a sophomore and part of Junior year. Not good. And Jurkovec his sophomore year passing. Spencer WAY better early than either of them. He's just 5'9 and the other were not!

PCC football team is not wealthy by any stretch. And they have bad facilities.

SV and Lebo have the best facilities - SV poured a tone of money into a second field and I think improved fieldhouse, plus new baseball and softball field. NA is probably next. PR probably up with SV and Lebo. That stadium is awesome - but it was built 20 years ago which is crazy to think.

Lebo has the best weight room I’ve seen for a high school. Our stadium doesn’t have the greatest press box but it does the job. Pine Richland has the best entrance to a stadium

Are Central Catholics facilities that bad? I would have figured that they would have the best.

 

[new2pa]

Lebo has the best weight room I’ve seen for a high school. Our stadium doesn’t have the greatest press box but it does the job. Pine Richland has the best entrance to a stadium

Are Central Catholics facilities that bad? I would have figured that they would have the best.

Weight room is in the old basement along with the locker room. Straight from 1970's from the stuff I've seen.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

Weight room is in the old basement along with the locker room. Straight from 1970's from the stuff I've seen.

Dan Marino needs to get off the couch and help out his alma mater

 

[BradlyPitt]

I’d consider Lebo and PCC wealthier than NA

and for PR, it’s not everyday you luck out and get 2 nfl qbs back to back… and the third one was a wrestler who surpassed them somehow…

are they? the wealthy professionals that move into the area are mostly moving to the north hills these days

PCC's enrollment puts them in 5A, but most of those kids are "on scholarship"

 

[BradlyPitt]

I’ll give last year Lebo team credit. They stomped PCC in the final.

the only team I hate more than PR is PCC

you must be very young because North Hills was always NA's biggest rival

 

[roxychknpoxy]

are they? the wealthy professionals that move into the area are mostly moving to the north hills these days

PCC's enrollment puts them in 5A, but most of those kids are "on scholarship"

Every kid in public schools is “on scholarship” with better facilities

 

[northalleghenytiger]

you must be very young because North Hills was always NA's biggest rival

I’m going to use the old adage “what have you done for me lately”

North hills has been painfully mediocre since ~2000
PR would be considered NAs biggest rival since 2010.

 

[2020sports]

I’m going to use the old adage “what have you done for me lately”

North hills has been painfully mediocre since ~2000
PR would be considered NAs biggest rival since 2010.

Alright tiger- this kinda off-topic from this thread, but i gotta ask- why do you "hate PR?" I understand you don't like "us" as a rival, but "hate" is kinda tough words. And- could you clarify, what did you mean, last week, when you said PR "avoided or ran away" from NA?

 

[Stalker]

Alright tiger- this kinda off-topic from this thread, but i gotta ask- why do you "hate PR?" I understand you don't like "us" as a rival, but "hate" is kinda tough words. And- could you clarify, what did you mean, last week, when you said PR "avoided or ran away" from NA?

remember when we used to look at each other and someone would say.......'high school', with a frown!?

 

[northalleghenytiger]

Alright tiger- this kinda off-topic from this thread, but i gotta ask- why do you "hate PR?" I understand you don't like "us" as a rival, but "hate" is kinda tough words. And- could you clarify, what did you mean, last week, when you said PR "avoided or ran away" from NA?

A few years back, I was at a bakery somewhere in PR getting brownies for my family before one of the games. I picked up the dessert, and was walking out of the store. Unbeknownst to me, there was a slight “bump” on the floor. I tripped, twisted my ankle, and smashed the brownies in the process. And the worst part about it is I heard another customer laugh. They didn’t even help me. That started my hatred for them.

As for dodging NA part

They were an elite team in 6a. They seemingly were getting better and better. Then there population dipped and the went to 5a. They could have stayed 6a if they wanted. They beat Sjp a few years back. Why chose to stay at 5a?

 

[CAMoleskinner]

Man - this thread has taken off!!!

At least we're getting lots of chatter (so glad the season is here).

And while I'm at it --

Go 'Skins!!

 

[northalleghenytiger]

Man - this thread has taken off!!!

At least we're getting lots of chatter (so glad the season is here).

And while I'm at it --

Go 'Skins!!

Who are the skins?

 

[CAMoleskinner]

Ha-ha!!!

You are new to this Board.

That's short for the Neshaminy Redskins out of Langhorne, PA.

With their field ("Heartbreak Ridge" as it is known locally) situated high above the meandering Neshaminy Creek the school district followed suit in 1950 and changed its name from Langhorne-Middletown High School to Neshaminy High School.

Then even earlier than that -- and owing to the fact that one of its principals in the 1920s had an interest in Native American culture (particularly the Lenni-Lenape people that frequented the Delaware Valley along the Delaware River) -- suggested the nickname Redskins be used for its sports teams (in a nod of admiration).

It has been shortened to "Skins" or "'Skins" over the years.

Here's a link to the team's website: NeshaminyFootball.com (a lot of history on there that will fill you in on the club's background).

PS I'm a fan of the 'Skins and PA scholastic ball too.

 

[BradlyPitt]

I’m going to use the old adage “what have you done for me lately”

North hills has been painfully mediocre since ~2000
PR would be considered NAs biggest rival since 2010.

they have been mediocre for the last 10 years or so

they beat NA in the regular season in 2010 before NA won the state title

i would say PR has been their biggest rival since 2014 when they started to compete for titles, not before then

 

[BradlyPitt]

A few years back, I was at a bakery somewhere in PR getting brownies for my family before one of the games. I picked up the dessert, and was walking out of the store. Unbeknownst to me, there was a slight “bump” on the floor. I tripped, twisted my ankle, and smashed the brownies in the process. And the worst part about it is I heard another customer laugh. They didn’t even help me. That started my hatred for them.

As for dodging NA part

They were an elite team in 6a. They seemingly were getting better and better. Then there population dipped and the went to 5a. They could have stayed 6a if they wanted. They beat Sjp a few years back. Why chose to stay at 5a?

LOL so you hate PR because some random people at some store in the district, who you have no idea if they even live in the district or root for PR, didn't help you after you ruined brownies?

there's no doubt PR moved down because they knew their chances of winning the state were much better, not that NA was a threat to them

 

[northalleghenytiger]

LOL so you hate PR because some random people at some store in the district, who you have no idea if they even live in the district or root for PR, didn't help you after you ruined brownies?

there's no doubt PR moved down because they knew their chances of winning the state were much better, not that NA was a threat to them

I never said that it was rational, that was just my experience. I’ve been to a lot of districts and Nothing that bad ever happened before or after. It’s like I was destined to hate them.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

they have been mediocre for the last 10 years or so

they beat NA in the regular season in 2010 before NA won the state title

i would say PR has been their biggest rival since 2014 when they started to compete for titles, not before then

My adage stays true

 

[2020sports]

My adage stays true

ok, tiger, so, the Pr hatred-

odd story, but i guess on behalf of the whole PR community, apologies for your falling and being laughed at. I kinda thought u would have other reasons.

Now- the idea of PR "not playing up." With all due respect, i'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with NA, it may have been "about" SJP. BUT, here's the deal-

The difference with "requesting to play up" to 6A is totally different than any other levels. So 3 to 4, may be 300 kids to 380. But 6A has no maximum, it just has minimum. PR has like 500 boys, some schools in eastern Pa have like 2000! What friggin idiot school would choose that? A high school choosing an opponent with four times as much? I checked the list 3 years ago- the list shows all schools that chose to "play up." Out of like 100 schools, not one single HS chose to play up to 6A in all of PA. Lastly, 6A in WPIAL is a "dying division." Only 5 teams this year? It's gonna start ot hurt that level not having equal competition. MANY reasons to not "play up" and none of them have anything to do w NA.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

ok, tiger, so, the Pr hatred-

odd story, but i guess on behalf of the whole PR community, apologies for your falling and being laughed at. I kinda thought u would have other reasons.

Now- the idea of PR "not playing up." With all due respect, i'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with NA, it may have been "about" SJP. BUT, here's the deal-

The difference with "requesting to play up" to 6A is totally different than any other levels. So 3 to 4, may be 300 kids to 380. But 6A has no maximum, it just has minimum. PR has like 500 boys, some schools in eastern Pa have like 2000! What friggin idiot school would choose that? A high school choosing an opponent with four times as much? I checked the list 3 years ago- the list shows all schools that chose to "play up." Out of like 100 schools, not one single HS chose to play up to 6A in all of PA. Lastly, 6A in WPIAL is a "dying division." Only 5 teams this year? It's gonna start ot hurt that level not having equal competition. MANY reasons to not "play up" and none of them have anything to do w NA.

I don’t hate the kids that play football for PR. I hate the PR community for that specific life story.

I hate 6 classifications as much as the next guy, I wish we could go back to 4. But before last year, PR was the only team to beat them in a championship game. It seemed like population didn’t matter to PR, they were very good regardless. It just seemed kind of strange to me that they dropped

 

[BradlyPitt]

I never said that it was rational, that was just my experience. I’ve been to a lot of districts and Nothing that bad ever happened before or after. It’s like I was destined to hate them.

you could've been shot in a lot of other districts, on top of that they would've taken your crushed brownies

they don't play around like that in PR

 

[Thegreenmissle]

A few years back, I was at a bakery somewhere in PR getting brownies for my family before one of the games. I picked up the dessert, and was walking out of the store. Unbeknownst to me, there was a slight “bump” on the floor. I tripped, twisted my ankle, and smashed the brownies in the process. And the worst part about it is I heard another customer laugh. They didn’t even help me. That started my hatred for them.

As for dodging NA part

They were an elite team in 6a. They seemingly were getting better and better. Then there population dipped and the went to 5a. They could have stayed 6a if they wanted. They beat Sjp a few years back. Why chose to stay at 5a?

Your experience sounds like a supervillain origin story.