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SJP

LPtown said:
Not trying to pick a fight here, but I was at the October 17th game and I don't agree.

While SJP might have had the two most talented players on the field last Saturday, in the aggregate LS had more talent on the field than SJP. The fact that you do not acknowledge this is the reason why you are so perplexed by the loss.
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Maybe you're right but I didn't read or hear anyone other than perhaps one poster (maybe it was you) say before the game last week that they expected LaSalle to win or that they thought the teams were equally talented. As for the October 17th game, I watched it on a livestream and what I saw was SJP totally dominating for a quarrter and a half, then--because of indiscipline, turnovers and what I thought were some terrible officiating decisions--almost give the lead away before again dominating (including the LOS) and winning by a fairly large margin. Of course you could say that I am overlooking the good things that LaSalle did in the middle part of that game, but I don't think I am, which is one reason I am not arguing there is a wide talent gap. I also recognize that Ferguson had a bad game last month.

The issue for me is the particular inconsistency of SJP's play this year. I'd be interested to hear if anyone does not think their play was very inconsistent.
 
LPtown said:
Not trying to pick a fight here, but I was at the October 17th game and I don't agree.

While SJP might have had the two most talented players on the field last Saturday, in the aggregate LS had more talent on the field than SJP. The fact that you do not acknowledge this is the reason why you are so perplexed by the loss.
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LP,
Not criticizing you, we're on the same team here brother. Of course, the counter argument by the Prep folks will be if we had similar or more aggregate talent, then explain Oct. 17th.

My belief is that we played with a will and determined spirit vs. Prep for 60 minutes that we hadn't seen since the '12 title game, the year the talent was comparable. That being said, still took a Sports Center catch to beat them. From what was witnessed Saturday, I tend to agree with you now that the aggregate talent THIS year was in LS favor, and they played with confidence. The stats "breakdown" of the title game were quite telling (Tulla elaborated as such). I would not say that for the previous 2 years, the talent balance was not in our favor.

Coaching?....coaching decisions/game plan? One can argue John Steinmetz's title game-plan was excellent and the boys were able to execute better than their 1st meeting. I'm very happy for JS, he re-entered into an unpleasant circumstance this off-season, I wish him continued success.

To Tulla's point.... I didn't recall anyone posting who had us as the favorite. I said +7, but "my heart was telling me otherwise".
 
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I've seen both teams play once this year , albeit not against one another. St Joes has more explosive big play talent , and I'd say marginally better overall talent. Maybe if they play 10 times , St Joes wins 6 or 7 times. Chalk this past weekend up as one of the 3 or 4 lasalle wins.
 
In game 1 LaSalle had 5 turnovers, gave up a kick return TD and lost 20 yards on a bad snap from the Prep 3 and they were still in it through the 3rd. Might account for the score.

Game 2 came down to one thing, Ricky picked the Prep by more than 10 points. As I predicted that was the difference.
 
fbfan1225 said:
In game 1 LaSalle had 5 turnovers, gave up a kick return TD and lost 20 yards on a bad snap from the Prep 3 and they were still in it through the 3rd. Might account for the score.

Game 2 came down to one thing, Ricky picked the Prep by more than 10 points. As I predicted that was the difference.
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I see you applied the "inverse Ricky" theorem to prediction, otherwise known as "inverse Mensa".
 
I guess it depends on how you define talent. I agree with Huck that there were two positions that 'gelled' for LS at the right time, not to mention that it's better to be lucky than good and it was a talented catch but no doubt Lady Luck played a role. To simply say LS has more talent because they won would be superficial to the result.
 
Talent is closer than most thought and even now think, agree with Huck, edge to Prep though.....Perception among many was that if LS could not beat Prep with Shurmur, Herron, and Gordon's that it would be along time...and while it took a great play to win, LS had the offensive pick six before the half that was a 10-14 point swing and settled for a field goal later with 1st and goal from the 3...They had their chances earlier. Not too mention it took Prep 5 downs from the 1 on the first drive, benefit of a questionable face mask call....LS played great D, was well prepared, wanted it more. What I think concerns/frustrates/perplexes the Prep faithful the most is that they could not get it done in Swift's junior year, because he is a very special player that does not come around too often......
 
roxychknpoxy said:
I guess it depends on how you define talent. I agree with Huck that there were two positions that 'gelled' for LS at the right time, not to mention that it's better to be lucky than good and it was a talented catch but no doubt Lady Luck played a role. To simply say LS has more talent because they won would be superficial to the result.
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The Prep can never get a break or any luck.
 
fbfan1225 said:
So he picks the Prep by 14? We love that guy.
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So can someone please remind me which LaSalle guy actually picked LaSalle to win--and I'm not talking about expressing a hope or saying what their hearts were feeling?

About the five turnovers LaSalle had in the first game: as I recall, the Prep had four. And one LaSalle TD came after the refs put the ball virtually on the Prep goal line after a seemingly bizarre double personal foul call.

About the QBs: Maybe because Ferguson didn't have a good game against SJP in October, I wasn't thinking there was that much difference between Ferguson and a healthy Shaw. That may itself have been incorrect, but when Shaw got injured and there was no Kidd-Jackson to come in to add the extra dynamic run threat--I realize he's shown no particular skill as a passer--the QB difference was large.

My main question is not about the teams' relative talent levels but about what seemed to me the Prep's inconsistency over the whole year. Put the Roman games aside and it's essentially a good or strong game then bad or weak game pattern throughout the season. Prep people who saw all or most of this year's games told me the team that played Bosco and Malvern was not the same as the team that played St. Edward's and SJR. No football team, especially no high school football team, can be expected to be entirely consistent, but the Prep seems more inconsistent than most. Anyone disagree?
 
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Tulla -

Agreed ... It resulted in poor execution as well at times. It's a fair question and reasonable assessment. It was one of the younger teams fielded over the years which means they will be returning more experienced 'talent' next year.
 
tulla said:
So can someone please remind me which LaSalle guy actually picked LaSalle to win--and I'm not talking about expressing a hope or saying what their hearts were feeling?

About the five turnovers LaSalle had in the first game: as I recall, the Prep had four. And one LaSalle TD came after the refs put the ball virtually on the Prep goal line after a seemingly bizarre double personal foul call.

About the QBs: Maybe because Ferguson didn't have a good game against SJP in October, I wasn't thinking there was that much difference between Ferguson and a healthy Shaw. That may itself have been incorrect, but when Shaw got injured and there was no Kidd-Jackson to come in to add the extra dynamic run threat--I realize he's shown no particular skill as a passer--the QB difference was large.

My main question is not about the teams' relative talent levels but about what seemed to me the Prep's inconsistency over the whole year. Put the Roman games aside and it's essentially a good or strong game then bad or weak game pattern throughout the season. Prep people who saw all or most of this year's games told me the team that played Bosco and Malvern was not the same as the team that played St. Edward's and SJR. No football team, especially no high school football team, can be expected to be entirely consistent, but the Prep seems more inconsistent than most. Anyone disagree?
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OK, all you SJP guys feel better now; convince yourselves you really won?

Happy Thanksgiving All!
 
roxychknpoxy said:
Didnt realize that play was designed for the self double tip. Obviously that had to take a few reps in practice.
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Tip drill Roxy!! :D Actually should have been picked and returned by the 1st-backer.

This is all good here, really. Our Prep friends need a continued catharsis until the intra-muscular Promethazine is no longer needed. We will continue to glow like a 3-mile island leak..

Won't belabor, but if a neutral observer who hadn't ever seen these teams play before or knew of their current rosters was asked who had more talent....... at least on that day, LS played as though their talent level was equal or better.

Addendum... Roxy, I thought you were referring to the LS pick-six to tie game at 14, not the Rinella catch.
 
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fbfan1225 said:
So he picks the Prep by 14? We love that guy.
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Ha ha ha....yes, he did. But he was telling me that he was sensing an upset throughout the week. Full disclosure. I didn't feel the upset. Reasonably competitive, yes. Not outright win, tho.
 
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roxychknpoxy said:
bestBJinallofPA - please add on about the swim and dive team also
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Was going to let your diarrhea go on, but see where you've brought our Swimming team into the discussion. It is the Swimming team, not the "swim and dive team", and they are the 4-time defending State champions. Of course, you Prep guys probably don't know that, can't find a kid at 17th & G to hit the water without going anaphylactic.

You have the best football team money can buy.... and you lost

You have the best football coach money can buy...... and you lost.

Need to get over it. Wouldn't worry though, I'm sure the Victory & FB booster Clubs will ensure a greater outlay of tuition relief to this year's prize incoming recruiting class.



btw... Gabe's "real" salary is obscene, makes Greg Toal seem like a peasant! Perhaps you could throw some money in the direction of the "swim and dive team".... or that which you call a travel Band?
 
Boom, there it is!! Thanks Yesman!! Dedicating a whole thread and week's time to "We lost? Wha.....wha.....what happened?" Get over yourselves!!
 
After seeing that game last week my initial feeling was that if those two teams play each other ten times Prep wins nine of them. At the same time here you have a LaSalle squad whom many felt weren't nearly at the same talent level as the Prep or Wood but gave both all they could handle in the second half of those games. Maybe the Explorer staff does deserve credit for making the necessary adjustments.

I absolutely agree that LaSalle has a sense of discipline on both LOS. Ferguson also appeared to want to put the game on his shoulder as well and really impressed. Either way The Prep should contend strongly in '16.
 
Kitwor- "the prep should content strongly in '16." Possibly the most obvious statement on this message board. There should never be a year prep doesn't contend strongly. Not sure what they're schedule looks like next year but would love to see them play haverford school, wood, and a top flight district 11 team as opposed to flying all over America.
 
delcofootball1 said:
Kitwor- "the prep should content strongly in '16." Possibly the most obvious statement on this message board. There should never be a year prep doesn't contend strongly. Not sure what they're schedule looks like next year but would love to see them play haverford school, wood, and a top flight district 11 team as opposed to flying all over America.
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It's a good thing Gabe got scared and dropped WOOD, Otherwise he would have TWO (2) PCL defeats on his record for 2015! Prep lost to a rebuilding LaSalle + LaSalle lost to Wood = Wood would beat Prep by 2 touchdowns! Was this equation in your 4 hours of homework last night, Prep Geeks!
 
Maybe we should be talking positive about the teams still in there and leave the autopsies for after the season. Any team not in there still doesn't deserve a thread in lieu of the teams in there. Congrats to UD and NP
 
FBU,

Your making it sound like Wood hammered LaSalle. Did you watch the second half of that game? The Explorers totally (I mean totally) outplayed them in the second half. I'll give Wood credit for their last drive which took up over 5 minutes but don't tell me they are that much better then either of those AAAA teams.

Didn't Wood drop the Prep this year or am I wrong?
 
paul from philly said:
Boom, there it is!! Thanks Yesman!! Dedicating a whole thread and week's time to "We lost? Wha.....wha.....what happened?" Get over yourselves!!
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I started this thread with the statement that maybe only SJP guys would care enough to comment, but look how many views this thread has had. Obviously, lots of people are interested and all kinds of people with ties to other schools, LaSalle especially, seem eager to weigh in. The numbers speak for themselves.

I learn a lot from most of the posters. People see games (like life) through such different lenses. For instance, I found a LaSalle poster's comment about what was the turning point last week interesting and, the more I thought about it, quite plausible. What I can't really understand is why someone comes on and lies ("Gabe got scared and dropped Wood") just to dump again on the Prep.
 
BJ - your reputation precedes you

The constant comparisons to SJP only reinforce the obvious. It was a reasonable discussion and question with feedback but some folks only manifest the stereotype. As far as the $ reference and salary, you have no idea. And Guessman, nice try but swim team is an accepted reference. Remember, it's "enter to learn". Hopefully, everyone is stretched out for the self back patting.

And FU, you're the biggest 'blow hard' on here. We'll see next year when Wood has no choice and must play Prep under new PCL division.
 
roxychknpoxy said:
BJ - your reputation precedes you

The constant comparisons to SJP only reinforce the obvious. It was a reasonable discussion and question with feedback but some folks only manifest the stereotype. As far as the $ reference and salary, you have no idea. And Guessman, nice try but swim team is an accepted reference. Remember, it's "enter to learn". Hopefully, everyone is stretched out for the self back patting.

And FU, you're the biggest 'blow hard' on here. We'll see next year when Wood has no choice and must play Prep under new PCL division.
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It's always next year, with you prep geeks! Are you going to the LaSalle game today, ya know since prep is done playing football already for 2015! Nerd!
 
I am not a Wood, LaSalle or Prep guy. I've watched PCL football (like many of us here) for over 40 years and don't have any attachment to any of those programs.

The bottom line here is and I quote a line coming from Infante himself " I am a Philadelphia Catholic League guy. I am glad the league can get a player of his ability" He said that after Shurmer moved from Cleveland and chose to go to LaSalle.

Deep down I think many people on this board are true PCL guys even though they may have a particular attachment to one of these programs. There is a feeling of respectability toward any PCL team to win at Hersey (no matter how it happened behind the scenes) due to the fact that there were some really top notch programs over the years here that were never able to win a state title due to not being a part of the PIAA. In a way maybe District 12 is catching up with the other districts in this regard.

Would any of Gil Brooks teams have won a title. What about the McDevitt teams of the mid 80's or the Ryan teams during Wycheck's era just to name a few.The list can go on and on.

I think that may be what drives many of us here.
 
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FBU82 said:
It's always next year, with you prep geeks! Are you going to the LaSalle game today, ya know since prep is done playing football already for 2015! Nerd!
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You think you know something but in reality you KNOW nothing! Wood dropped SJP from the schedule. Does it matter? You can say what you want it's your opinion like I have mine. The last two times Wood/SJP played Wood won the first half, SJP the second. In the last game Wood was kicking SJP ass in first half. A couple adjustments and the roles were reversed. To say SJP dropped Wood is funny. Wood's success speaks for itself. SJP has played a great schedule year in and year out since Infante has arrived. They welcome a Wood game. Wood's schedule says otherwise to your point.
 
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Yeah I don't see Wood wanting any part of the Prep. If memory serves me correct, Wood supposedly had the better team going in to both games and lost. Wood only plays teams in the regular season they think they can bully. St. Joes Prep has not been one of those teams. Why don't you throw another fabrication at a wall and see if it sticks. How about Gabe tried to convince Mike Carey to come coach at the Prep and and the booster club pays him 100 K. There, that's ridiculous enough. That will stick.
 
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IAdelco said:
Yeah I don't see Wood wanting any part of the Prep. If memory serves me correct, Wood supposedly had the better team going in to both games and lost. Wood only plays teams in the regular season they think they can bully. St. Joes Prep has not been one of those teams. Why don't you throw another fabrication at a wall and see if it sticks. How about Gabe tried to convince Mike Carey to come coach at the Prep and and the booster club pays him 100 K. There, that's ridiculous enough. That will stick.
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No, your memory does not serve you corrrect! Must be brain atrophy from all that homework! How did equipment return go for you guys last week? Wow a rebuilding year, 1st year head coach, LaSalle took Gabe to the school! I'm feeling another 5-7 years of a LaSalle dynasty in the PCL!
 
I'm sure it was as difficult for Prep kids turning in their equipment as it will be for you when you turn in your pom poms and skirt. At least all of their tears didnt go to waste shinning their two state championship rings. Must be like sucking on lemons for you to have to hear that it's not the school you do your cheerleading for skirt.
 
Speaking of which FBU, you don't have to turn in your pom poms and skirt on Monday, you can just hand it over to Gordon and Schmidt tonight. Seems like they seem to OWN you anyway!
 
FBU82 said:
No, your memory does not serve you corrrect! Must be brain atrophy from all that homework! How did equipment return go for you guys last week? Wow a rebuilding year, 1st year head coach, LaSalle took Gabe to the school! I'm feeling another 5-7 years of a LaSalle dynasty in the PCL!
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That sound you hear is FBU licking his wounds...
 
Ah come on FF. We have all been there. Wanting to pump up our chest and flex our muscles and tell everyone how great our team is. Unfortunately, karma is a biatch. Now it's time to get past it and rout for the D1 and D12 teams to get to Hershey and represent. Good luck to all of our Eastern brothers that are still in the dance. Bring Home The Gold!!!
 
IAdelco said:
Ah come on FF. We have all been there. Wanting to pump up our chest and flex our muscles and tell everyone how great our team is. Unfortunately, karma is a biatch. Now it's time to get past it and rout for the D1 and D12 teams to get to Hershey and represent. Good luck to all of our Eastern brothers that are still in the dance. Bring Home The Gold!!!
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In general I agree with you, but FBU was a hater and get repeating the same line--a lie--about SJP dropping Wood.
 
As your Jesuit brothers have mentioned to you many times I'm sure, "turn the other cheek." I know the truth and that's all that really matters. Besides, looks like they won't be able to avoid one another in the regular season at least for next year anyway so, after a short hiatus, let the war begin!
 
IAdelco said:
As your Jesuit brothers have mentioned to you many times I'm sure, "turn the other cheek." I know the truth and that's all that really matters. Besides, looks like they won't be able to avoid one another in the regular season at least for next year anyway so, after a short hiatus, let the war begin!
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No doubt we'll all get into next year's business down the line, but right now it looks like the PCL will have some interesting choices to make. Easiest thing to do is to split the league into two divisions of seven teams each--meaning six regular season games. If they keep the whole semi-finals system, that'll mean eight league games for those who make it to the final, probably forcing teams like SJP and LaSalle to cut back on their non-league games and ambitions. More interestingly it raises the question of how to figure out match between the PIAA six class structure and the PCL playoff situation. For instance, how will they determine whether LaSalle or SJP goes on in the 6A class if Wood wins the big school division and Prep and LaSalle did not play in the semis? Let's say Wood beats SJP in the semi by a point and then beats LaSalle by three TDs in the final. Would LaSalle go on because they made the final? Would it be based on who won the LS-SJP regular season game--that may have taken place in September? Would it be based on final regular season standings? What if they were both 5-1?
 
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