I always thought that 2017 was the best wpial team ever based on their schedule, talent, and margin of victory. The 2004 and 2007 Pittsburgh central Catholic teams are up there in the mix as well. Now you have to throw this mount Lebo team in there.
Is 2017 Pine Richland the best wpial team ever
- Thread starter Hausmann1978
- Start date
Youre right they are up there too. That 95 Penn hills team was pretty damn good as well.
Too many schools to say "best ever" in WPIAL football- oldest high school "league" in PA and one of the oldest in the US. 17 PR was great- but no way to say "best ever." No Aliquippa? Braddock of the 50s? North Hills 87, North Hills 93? Just PR- I could make an argument 20 was "as good as" 17, and in fact, statistically the 20 team was a little better, points for and against. 17 with Phil- edge on offense, 20 defense for PR better- by this fall, the 20 PR Defense... 8 or 9 of them will have received D1 Football Offers, and 5 of them are already playing in college!
Honestly, I'd say, if this was a "real vote" I'd start w the two "historically best." Sample a few coffee shops, bars and barber shops- pick the "best ever" from Aliquippa and Jeannette and include them. And the Leo '21 Team? Maybe "top 10 or 20." And, just like comparing Johnny U and s/o like Drew Brees? Apples and Oranges. Prior to the late 80's I don't think the "state title" in football even existed?
So, IMO, no way to "rank" these teams- maybe the 10 best, in any order? And Lebo of 21? Yes, maybe in top 10 ever.
Absolutely agree 2020Sports. How far back do you want to go!?
From the vault!
1959 Clark 9-0
Undefeated last year before Chartiers Valley in 1960. Clark was on a tear, going 56-7 its last seven campaigns."
Good ole Scott Twp High! Medium-sized, but tough nonetheless. Bridgeville (also now part of Char Val) had a few really good "small school" teams as well back in the day.
1963 Washington 9-0
Their tradition ranks right up there with just about anyone in WPIAL history, 1923 team with unbeaten/untied/unscored upon plus average of nearly 50 per game probably best of Wash High teams.
A bunch of us worked on this some years ago.
You can only assess a team in terms of the era in which it played. If you look at any team from the 50's, 60's or 70's, they'd all look much smaller along the lines and much slower at the skill positions. And, as you suggest, the game itself has changed in ways that a team built and coached for success even 20 years ago would be hugely disadvantaged if, magically, it was lined up against a highly successful team of the present with on-field officials from the present working the game.
Here's the list I'd come up with based on domination of competition and high level players. My "mythical champs" project goes back to 1950.
Aliquippa 1955
Beaver Falls 1960
Uniontown 1965
Kiski Area 1971
Penn Hills 1978
Penn Hills 1979
Gateway 1986
North Hills 1987
---Playoff Era---
Upper St. Clair 1989
North Hills 1993
Penn Hills 1995
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2004
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2007
North Allegheny 2012
Aliquippa - Mike Ditka as a junior, eight of eleven starters played major college football (2 NC STate, 2 Arizona STate, 2 Kentucky, Pitt)
Beaver Falls - Joe Namath as a senior, running back played at Iowa, ends played at Michigan State and NC State
Uniontown - offense had QB went to Nebraska, running backs went to Nebraska and Ohio State, ends went to Minnesota and Penn State.
Kiski Area - set a record with six AP All State picks
Penn Hills '78 - shut out Dan Marino in WPIAL semis
Penn Hills '79 - Fourth straight WPIAL title w/ Tom Flynn and Bill Fralic
Gateway - upset North Hills as the #2 team in the country, Curtis Bray and Mike Lovorio both Parade All Americans
North Hills - this team is pretty famous
Aliquippa 1955
Beaver Falls 1960
Uniontown 1965
Kiski Area 1971
Penn Hills 1978
Penn Hills 1979
Gateway 1986
North Hills 1987
---Playoff Era---
Upper St. Clair 1989
North Hills 1993
Penn Hills 1995
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2004
Pittsburgh Central Catholic 2007
North Allegheny 2012
Aliquippa - Mike Ditka as a junior, eight of eleven starters played major college football (2 NC STate, 2 Arizona STate, 2 Kentucky, Pitt)
Beaver Falls - Joe Namath as a senior, running back played at Iowa, ends played at Michigan State and NC State
Uniontown - offense had QB went to Nebraska, running backs went to Nebraska and Ohio State, ends went to Minnesota and Penn State.
Kiski Area - set a record with six AP All State picks
Penn Hills '78 - shut out Dan Marino in WPIAL semis
Penn Hills '79 - Fourth straight WPIAL title w/ Tom Flynn and Bill Fralic
Gateway - upset North Hills as the #2 team in the country, Curtis Bray and Mike Lovorio both Parade All Americans
North Hills - this team is pretty famous
It's hard to say how good some of those teams were before 88 and the state playoffs. The 87 north hills finished #1 in the country and the 93 team had Kasperowicz and a freshman lavar Arington. I like the 2017 pr team because of the talent, margin of victory, and competition. They won gold in the highest classification in the state and blew out a top 10 team in the country in the finals. I think the 2017 team beats the 2020 team. You're right there are a lot of great teams. Fun to debate.
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It's fun yapping about it but you can't compare teams from different eras as some have already said here anymore than you can compare a miler (Roger Bannister) breaking the 5" barrier in '54 with others doing sub-4 by the end of the century. They were all great runners and athletes.
Rover- awesome stuff- like the 50s to 70s info!! Glad to see Aliquippa mentioned, but no Jeannette!?! 750 wins, gotta crack the "mystical champ list!!"
And, Stalker, agreed, the comparisons are not accurate- but it is fun! Hausman- for fun on the Pr teams... ok, i will agree, i will give the 17 team an edge, but maybe at least a "close game." Maybe fall of '22, there will similar # of PR17 and PR20 kids playing D1 college football, maybe even more from the '20 team.
And, Stalker, agreed, the comparisons are not accurate- but it is fun! Hausman- for fun on the Pr teams... ok, i will agree, i will give the 17 team an edge, but maybe at least a "close game." Maybe fall of '22, there will similar # of PR17 and PR20 kids playing D1 college football, maybe even more from the '20 team.
Someday I'm going to write the season recaps for all of those! I have Jeannette winning a mythical title in 1956, but was cherry picking what looked like the best of the best from those eras. Jeannette didn't win the WPIAL between '56 and 1971, so no possible ones in the 1960s, and then by '71 Jeannette was no longer in the biggest classification, and I don't think they would have beaten the '71 Kiski squad that I did put on the list. Frankly, the best Jeannette team is probably Pryor's senior year in '07. Maybe the best WPIAL small school team of all time?
Quips also won the WPIAL in 1965, but lost during the season to Pittsburgh Central Catholic, who went undefeated but wasn't eligible for the WPIAL title, and I have the Vikings as my mythical champ that year (only major program in the state that was undefeated and beat the WPIAL champ).
On Pine-Richland 2017 - are they THAT talented? They've got three super high end guys with Jurkovec, Kristofic, and Katic, obviously. But they don't have the flood of guys that played college football behind those three blue chippers. Did anybody in that starting lineup besides Falcone (Lehigh), King (Stony Brook) and Cerminara (Dayton) even play FCS? Six Division I guys is actually on the low side for a big school champ. The talent on that roster feels more like the '08 Liberty team - four guys who got cups of coffee in the NFL, but only one other guy was even a Division I player. Compare that with the PCC '07 team that had 12 guys go FBS/FCS or the 2004 version that had 13. Now, the difference is, Pine-Richland had maybe the best WPIAL quarterback of the state playoff era, and I guess you get extra points for your most talented guy being the person that's touching the ball on every play.
I'm not writing this to annoy anyone and I don't want to suggest that P-R in '17 wasn't a great team that deserved to win the state championship, but I don't think it's accurate to say they "blew out" SJP that year in the championship.
I'm remembering the championship game through an SJP lens, of course, and so what stands out in my memory were three first half plays: the one where the SJP runner inexplicably fumbled the ball, maybe because of the cold, as he was about to cross the goal line untouched (a P-R player recovered the ball in the end zone); the one where the SJP receiver let a would-be TD pass go right through his hands; and the one where an SJP punt return for a TD was called back because of a blocking in the back penalty that wasn't a bad but an iffy call (the block didn't enable the TD).
The difference in the game was Jerkovec. He made some big plays out of nothing, especially the TD at the end of the first half.
Maybe because it's played by teenagers who, individually or collectively, can get very high or very low quite quickly and because it's a physical game that requires and rewards focused intensity, high school football has a lot of games in which there are tidal shifts or cascades of good or bad things affecting one one team or another. LaSalle saw that happen to them last month against SJP. The bottom fell out over the course of a few minutes.
I'm remembering the championship game through an SJP lens, of course, and so what stands out in my memory were three first half plays: the one where the SJP runner inexplicably fumbled the ball, maybe because of the cold, as he was about to cross the goal line untouched (a P-R player recovered the ball in the end zone); the one where the SJP receiver let a would-be TD pass go right through his hands; and the one where an SJP punt return for a TD was called back because of a blocking in the back penalty that wasn't a bad but an iffy call (the block didn't enable the TD).
The difference in the game was Jerkovec. He made some big plays out of nothing, especially the TD at the end of the first half.
Maybe because it's played by teenagers who, individually or collectively, can get very high or very low quite quickly and because it's a physical game that requires and rewards focused intensity, high school football has a lot of games in which there are tidal shifts or cascades of good or bad things affecting one one team or another. LaSalle saw that happen to them last month against SJP. The bottom fell out over the course of a few minutes.
2020: The PR 2020 team likely will have more guys on college foot all.
2017 also had Mike Dorundo, Kenny White, Meckler, and Thomas Burns. Defrancisis had a PWO to Pitt but elected to just go to school.
But - it boils down to this. Phil Jurkovec wasn’t going to lose. No matter what.
2017 also had Mike Dorundo, Kenny White, Meckler, and Thomas Burns. Defrancisis had a PWO to Pitt but elected to just go to school.
But - it boils down to this. Phil Jurkovec wasn’t going to lose. No matter what.
I am P-R homer so I’m gonna throw in the red zone pick that Jurkovec threw, the fumble on the +30 on the first drive of the second half. And the fumble on the +7 near the end of the game.
The call on the punt was iffy though.
That being said;
P-R vs SJP is a game the state needs and I would love to see it happen every year in Hershey. LoL. Same with Lebo to a certain extent.
I agree Pine Richland had mistakes too and sj had a fumble where the player was ruled down and would of given pr the ball in the RedZone on the punt. Most of sjp turnovers were because of pr defence. The better team definitely won that night. I'm surprised there's this much debate. The 2004 Pcc was great as well but is there any wpial team in the modern era that anyone would pick over 2017 PR?
Never saw the 2004 PCC team but what I heard of them from Prep people--the two teams played in September that year--indicated they were fundamentally very sound and awfully good in every area.
That goal line fumble was not caused by the P-R defence; neither was the through-the-hands missed TD catch. No question P-R was a deserving winner. I just don't think anyone watching the game would say they were seeing a blowout.
I'll agree the game was closer then the score indicated and at half it was still anyones game but pr didn't play mistake free either. The score could of been worse and that was a damn good prep team.
I think 17 pine Richland is the best wpial team imo of the playoff era but if I were to do state champs in every classification and it's just my opinion here it is:
6A: 2020 st Joe's prep
5A: 2020 pine Richland
4A: 2004 Pittsburgh central Catholic
3A: 2015 Imhotep
2A: 3 way tie 2007 Jennette, 2016 steel valley,
2019 southern Columbia
1A: 2012 Clariton
6A: 2020 st Joe's prep
5A: 2020 pine Richland
4A: 2004 Pittsburgh central Catholic
3A: 2015 Imhotep
2A: 3 way tie 2007 Jennette, 2016 steel valley,
2019 southern Columbia
1A: 2012 Clariton
2 other FCS O-linemen, Wiedelman '17 Duquesne (injury forced out of action) and Dorando '19 Duquesne - 2 year starter at center
2019 SJP better than 2020 SJP. Both lines bigger and faster, made playoff run without two of the three big names everyone points to.
They had way more talent then just those 3 Tyler king was a 3 star recruit and originally signed with navy and Kenny white was a 3 star recruit as well. I know Pitt was looking at him but I believe his grades forced him have to go to go to junior college. Never knew what happened to him after that.
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Yes- good call- also Cerminara had PWO at Dayton, White had Juco- but I think he may have also failed out of JUCO. Jeez- I just went thru roster and counted kids who played some college football- 14
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