FCS Final tonight
- Thread starter Stalker
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They are FCS schools that should be going to division one like Delaware. Deep pockets.
Why would NDSU move up? They're already in a tougher conference (Mizzou Val) than Delaware is going to in the CUSA. Moving "up" is probably a bad idea for a team that went 3-17 the last 20 years vs Nova.
NDSU is a state school playing against private schools without the same resources. For Delaware, stadium is right size, only 20 more scholarship and will get Tv money especially playing during the week. they will draw better then Temple.
College football is about $$
Hopefully the Blue Hens do better than that disaster of a program at Temple.
I wish them the best being one of the first games seen back in the day (as little guys) at Gettysburg College behind what was the Eddie Plank Gym in the MAC. Saw a few games more recently in Newark. Great facilities and a decent court in hoops too. Small but a nice cozy venue.
Seeing them and Bucknell probably had a lot to do with many of us getting into football as much as we were already into baseball with the great lefthander Eddie Plank (326 wins) being from Gettysburg and Nellie Fox from FB rival Chambersburg........and the college kicking ass in hoops with two Little All-Americans in Ron Warner and Wheaties Parker playing the likes of LaSalle, St. Joe's, Temple, Delaware and others.
Weird saying but Gettysburg was a great "sports town" to grow up in in because of the college.
I hear you on sports being about $ where I guess NDSU is doing quite well. But they definitely have the resume to move up should it benefit them.
You mentioned "NDSU is a state school playing against private schools without the same resources".
Not sure where you got that info but EVERY school on NDSU's regular season football schedule is a public university. NONE are private schools. The exceptions are two privates met in the post season; Abilene Christian and Mercer.
**** See steelcurtin55's post above that shows their complete schedule
In general:
D1-AA top tier is located away from quality D1-A programs. i.e. North/South Dakota
D2 top tier is located away from quality D1-AA programs. i.e. Michigan
D3 top tier is located away from quality D2 programs. i.e. Ohio, Illinois
D1-AA top tier is located away from quality D1-A programs. i.e. North/South Dakota
D2 top tier is located away from quality D1-AA programs. i.e. Michigan
D3 top tier is located away from quality D2 programs. i.e. Ohio, Illinois
FCS has shifted massively over the last 25 years to the power programs being in the north central part of the state largely because so many of the best programs have moved up. Schools that have competed for or won national championships (often a lot) that are no longer FCS programs now:
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Marshall
Delaware
Sam Houston State
James Madison
Western Kentucky
UMass
Boise State
Jacksonville State
Louisiana Tech
Nevada
Outside of Boise, I’m not sure how many of those schools are happier moving up. And with the House settlement looming, I think you are going to see a contraction of FBS, frankly, I think you’ll even see schools get kicked out of major conferences for not pulling their weight (the Purdues of the world) and a total separation from the Group of 5 schools. From that standpoint, Delaware’s timing is awful.
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Marshall
Delaware
Sam Houston State
James Madison
Western Kentucky
UMass
Boise State
Jacksonville State
Louisiana Tech
Nevada
Outside of Boise, I’m not sure how many of those schools are happier moving up. And with the House settlement looming, I think you are going to see a contraction of FBS, frankly, I think you’ll even see schools get kicked out of major conferences for not pulling their weight (the Purdues of the world) and a total separation from the Group of 5 schools. From that standpoint, Delaware’s timing is awful.
D3-wise
Mt. Union is pretty close to quality D2 programs in the PSAC West.
Saint John's (MN) dynasty was still surrounded by quality D2 programs both in state and the surrounding areas.
Wisconsin Whitewater is surrounded by a great D2 conference in the Great Lakes with Ferris/Saginaw/etc..
During the heyday of the PSAC, Washington and Jefferson as well as Lycoming were top 10 teams year in and year out. Susquehanna and Grove City are seeing a major resurgence in the heart of PSAC territory.
D2-wise
During West Chester, Bloomsburg, and Millersville's run in the 80's and 90's, they were all competing with Delaware and the rest of the Yankee and Atlantic 10 for athletes. In the west schools like IUP, Slippery Rock, etc were all competing with Youngstown State for athletes.
In the South, North Alabama was surrounded by quality D1AA schools in the 90's..
D1AA-wise
During Georgia Southern's run they obviously were surrounded by SEC and ACC schools as was App. State. When Marshall was 1AA they were competing with WVU, VA Tech, Kentucky, Tennessee in their backyard.
James Madison was in the heart of ACC/SEC country.
See "In General", always exceptions:
D1-AA top tier is located away from quality D1-A programs.
Georgia Southern hasn't won in 24 years. Marshall was 1996.
JMU snuck through a few times, but Virginia isn't exactly loaded with solid D1-A Programs.
D2 top tier is located away from quality D1-AA programs. i.e. MichiganFerris, Valdosta, NW Missouri, Pittsburg don't have CAA type D1-AA programs pulling from them like PSAC.
D3 top tier is located away from quality D2 programs. i.e. Ohio, IllinoisMount Union is close to PSAC West , but PSAC has never won a D2 championship and won't anytime soon.
St John's (MN) has MN State (few finals and semis) and Bemidji which have been solid as of late.
WI Whitewater is 6 hours from Ferris.
Ease of transferring nowadays will definitely shift the playing field.Georgia Southern moved up after the 2013 season. And while their last national title was 2000, they went to the final four in 2001, 2002, 2010, 2011, and 2012.
James Madison won national titles in 2004 and 2016, made the finals in 2017 and 2019, and the final four in 2008, 2020, and 2021.
Marshall moved up in 1996, so I'm talking about ancient history, but they did go to the national title game in 1987, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, and 1996, with a final four in 1994 (national champs in 1992 and 1996).
My larger point is not that your geography point is a bad one - it holds a lot of water - but I think the specific dominance of the Big Sky/Missouri Valley schools in FCS (North Dakota State in particular, but the other Dakotas and Montana) is also largely attributable to the similarly resourced and serious about football programs leaving FCS to chase dollars in FBS. I don't think NDSU wins ten of the last fourteen national titles if the list of schools I mentioned all are still competing against them. You have seen a major weakining of the SoCon and Big South - there was a time when schools like Furman and Wofford were consistently top 15 programs that could push for final four berths, they've fallen off a cliff as their conference mates have disappeared to FBS as well. William & Mary and Richmond in the southern part of the CAA (Richmond moving to the Patriot League next year) have suffered similar fates, as have midwestern former powers like Youngstown State and Southern Illinois. FCS is in a weird place.
It will be very interesting to see how the addition of the Ivy League in the playoffs next year changes the national landscape. They don't necessarily get thought of, because the academics are what they are, and they've never competed in the playoffs due to league rules. But they are schools with virtually unlimited financial resources who recruit nationally - and while they absolutely have limits on the kids they can take due to academics, with any reasonably qualified kid academically they are incredibly hard to beat in a recruiting battle and they win a lot of really elite talent from all over the country. If you look at things like Bill Connlley's SP+, there have been multiple Ivy League teams in the top 10 the last few years and I think whoever comes out of that league (which I also think will get multiple bids) are going to make deep runs and change some FCS paradigms.
Full disclosure - my dad was the chair of the FCS Playoff Committee for years and was an executive with FCS Football Directors committee at various points in his career. Subject near and dear to our hearts.
I've talked with high school coaches from the West coast, especially the Pacific northwest who say we don't know how lucky we are in PA to have the PSAC and so many D3 programs in the Northeast. There are a lot of HS football players in geographical areas where if you're not a D1 guy, you have limited options to play at the next level.
In addition to the Ivy League, the NESCAC guys are hoping that decision will also break things loose for them and they can join the D3 playoffs in the near future, if not this year. They're in the same situation as the Ivies, with national rosters because of academics, and chomping at the bit to see where they fit in the D3 hierarchy.
In addition to the Ivy League, the NESCAC guys are hoping that decision will also break things loose for them and they can join the D3 playoffs in the near future, if not this year. They're in the same situation as the Ivies, with national rosters because of academics, and chomping at the bit to see where they fit in the D3 hierarchy.
That’s one area where Lafayette has tons of recruiting success, particularly when they were really good in the mid 2000s. They’d get tons of kids from Florida to come up to little, cold Easton Pennsylvania, because there were no FCS programs to speak of in Florida. If they weren’t good enough to play at the big schools, they couldn’t stay close to home, so Lafayette used to hit recruiting down there really hard, because they had a shot.