e.g., Top 20: mixed classes.

[Stalker]

Hausmann1978 was asking about a combined PR ranking of all classes.
I think besides a few exceptional teams like McDevitt, Aliquippa, Imhotep, Pine Richland, Cathedral Prep (Southern Columbia?), you have to blow it out past a Top 30 (at least) to incorporate teams from the smaller classes. Otherwise 6A and 5A teams dominate. Still, they would likely influence a ranking something like the following and make up 50% of a Top 10 if using the teams I used. Here’s what it might look like.

1 St. Joseph’s Prep

2 Bishop McDevitt 4A

3 Pine Richland 5A

4 Harrisburg

5 State College

6 North Allegheny

7 Central Catholic

8 Imhotep 5A

9 Aliquippa 4A

10 Cathedral Prep 5A

11 Manheim Township

12 Downingtown West

13 Nazareth

14 Parkland

15 Gateway 5A

16 Central Bucks West (if return Qb ok)

17 Spring Ford

18 Perkiomen Valley

18 Garnet Valley

20 Coatesville


**** The feeling here is 6As and 5As would dominate even from 21st through 40th. Teams like the traditional strong teams below that are not ranked above.
6A like Ridley, North Penn, Central Dauphin, Cumberland Valley, State College, Wilson, Emmaus, Freedom, Lebo and Northeast.
5A like Bethel, Penn Hills, Penn Trafford, USC, Woody, Cedar Cliff, Cocalico, Exeter, Warwick, Strath Haven, Upper Dublin, Rustin, Ply White and Roman.

** Because 6A and 5A often play each other with many of the 5As formerly being in the 6A classification, we know a lot more about them. The issue with ranking teams in the smaller classifications is they seldom play the upper two classes. You can look at many on tape but there are only so many hours in the day and it’s hard enough keeping up with historic powers.

 

[new2pa]

Stalk,
After talking to some people out here, I would put PCC and NA a tier above everyone else.

In 5A, I think that winner of P-R/PH/WH conference is likely WPIAL champion - but don't think they will be able to get past ECP in the Western Semi's. I personally like PH because of really good QB play.

In 6A, after PCC and NA, the picking's is very very slim. I would put CMac next because of a strong senior class and QB play. Then SV and Lebo (SV got beat handily by ECP in their scrimmage and while Lebo evidently did well vs P-R, they "were small with inadequate skill position play" for 6A.) I'm not sold on Gateway. The Birch kid is good but hasn't been able to carry them despite good skill. BP got beat handily by McDowell.

And Penn-Trafford and Peters Twp are always solid because of very good coaching, but not sure they have the talent to compete at the highest levels this year.

(Note: This info is more from heresay this year than years past - more out of the loop than ever with 5A/6A since I'm trying to follow Mars more.)

 

[2020sports]

New- I agree w most of your post- however- no way is NA "above." Last yr and this yr, they have not played enough competition to go far. PCC, yes. NA did not even win a single state playoff game- has not done so in over 10 years. NA "chooses" to play Taylor Alderdice? Gimmee a break. Other than PCC, unless the state or WPIAL changes things, i see the other teams being irrelevant. Not enough fliexibility with scheduling- these teams be allowed to "find" more opponents. And the talent and coaching at PCC is way above NA.

5A- agreed- PH, WH or PR winner goes far. Unlikely to be PR, imo. Not necessary tho to debate- we will know very soon- wk 2, Sept 8- PH v PR- if PR wins, then maybe go far, if we get whooped, gonna be an ugly year for PR.

4A- wow- gonna be a bloodbath in wpial/D7. Mars is gonna make some noise- gonna be Quip, CV, McKeesort and now Mars- wow- maybe cannot beat McDevit and win states- but maybe s/o from wpial can "get there."

 

[new2pa]

Fair enough on NA. I think PCC is better, but thought NA was still way better than the rest of 6A. Th good news is all those top teams play each other. I believe PCC plays PH as well.

 

[Stalker]

Stalk,
After talking to some people out here, I would put PCC and NA a tier above everyone else.

In 5A, I think that winner of P-R/PH/WH conference is likely WPIAL champion - but don't think they will be able to get past ECP in the Western Semi's. I personally like PH because of really good QB play.

In 6A, after PCC and NA, the picking's is very very slim. I would put CMac next because of a strong senior class and QB play. Then SV and Lebo (SV got beat handily by ECP in their scrimmage and while Lebo evidently did well vs P-R, they "were small with inadequate skill position play" for 6A.) I'm not sold on Gateway. The Birch kid is good but hasn't been able to carry them despite good skill. BP got beat handily by McDowell.

And Penn-Trafford and Peters Twp are always solid because of very good coaching, but not sure they have the talent to compete at the highest levels this year.

(Note: This info is more from heresay this year than years past - more out of the loop than ever with 5A/6A since I'm trying to follow Mars more.)

Good views above. About rankings, it’s all how you look at it. The thing about preseason polls is you only have last year’s performance to go on….IF….you’re being objective. Anything else is allowing personal feelings to enter into it. Based on last year’s results knowing these teams return much of last year’s personnel, here are some reminders of that season.
(PS; On a personal level, I also feel PCC and NA will dominate)

Pitt CC (7-5) lost 5 times last year with two of those losses coming to North Allegheny 7-3 and 35-21. Also lost to Pine Richland 35-13. Notable win vs Bethel Park (10-2) 31-22 with a loss to -.500 Mt. Lebanon (5-6) 17-16 and wins against Penn Hills, Seneca Valley, Gateway and Lebo in rematch, teams with a combined won-loss of 28-25. Return big numbers with largely the same personnel as last year.

North Allegheny (11-2) returns much of the team that won the Wpial. Notable wins are Pitt CC twice and McDowell (10-3). Lost to State College in the quarterfinal 28-7. Like Pitt CC, they also lost to Pine Richland 28-17. Other wins were Lebo, P.Traf, Sen Val with combined won-loss of 17-15.

State College (13-1) with road wins at Downingtown East (9-4) 32-31 and Harrisburg (11-2) 20-6 before rematch loss to Harrisburg. Return an experienced team and Qb with one of the state’s top backs in D’Antae Sheffy (+1700 as a frosh) running behind Colin Dardis 6-2 295 sr, Jake Hohenshelt 6-4 275 sr and Justin Castro Dixon 5-10, 315, sr.

Pine Richland (13-3) 5A state champ. Returns a good core with experience at QB, WRs and RB Pillar. Second year in Coach Jon LeDonne’s system. Beat Pitt CC and North Allegheny. Playoff run saw them defeat Upper St. Clair (10-3), Cathedral Prep (8-3), Cocalico (10-5) and Imhotep Charter (10-3) in final.

Harrisburg (11-3) 2022 6A finalist defeating Wilson (8-3), Cent York (10-2), Township (9-4) and State College before St. Joe’s loss in final. Return OL Epps 6-1, 230 Sr, Brown 6-5 245 Soph, Venable 6-5 285 Sr, Moffitt 5-11, 245, Sr, Williamson 6-1, 260 Soph plus QB Shawn Lee, Elias Coke 6-3 190 Soph and more. Will be more explosive this year with Lee-Coke connection a year older and a line that will likely open holes on demand.

 

[new2pa]

As always, right on!! I’m excited for the season.

 

[Hausmann1978]

Hausmann1978 was asking about a combined PR ranking of all classes.
I think besides a few exceptional teams like McDevitt, Aliquippa, Imhotep, Pine Richland, Cathedral Prep (Southern Columbia?), you have to blow it out past a Top 30 (at least) to incorporate teams from the smaller classes. Otherwise 6A and 5A teams dominate. Still, they would likely influence a ranking something like the following and make up 50% of a Top 10 if using the teams I used. Here’s what it might look like.

1 St. Joseph’s Prep

2 Bishop McDevitt 4A

3 Pine Richland 5A

4 Harrisburg

5 State College

6 North Allegheny

7 Central Catholic

8 Imhotep 5A

9 Aliquippa 4A

10 Cathedral Prep 5A

11 Manheim Township

12 Downingtown West

13 Nazareth

14 Parkland

15 Gateway 5A

16 Central Bucks West (if return Qb ok)

17 Spring Ford

18 Perkiomen Valley

18 Garnet Valley

20 Coatesville


**** The feeling here is 6As and 5As would dominate even from 21st through 40th. Teams like the traditional strong teams below that are not ranked above.
6A like Ridley, North Penn, Central Dauphin, Cumberland Valley, State College, Wilson, Emmaus, Freedom, Lebo and Northeast.
5A like Bethel, Penn Hills, Penn Trafford, USC, Woody, Cedar Cliff, Cocalico, Exeter, Warwick, Strath Haven, Upper Dublin, Rustin, Ply White and Roman.

** Because 6A and 5A often play each other with many of the 5As formerly being in the 6A classification, we know a lot more about them. The issue with ranking teams in the smaller classifications is they seldom play the upper two classes. You can look at many on tape but there are only so many hours in the day and it’s hard enough keeping up with historic powers.

I like the list stalk. I think Thomas Jefferson should be added though but that just my opinion.

 

[Stalker]

I like the list stalk. I think Thomas Jefferson should be added though but that just my opinion.

Never wrong going with TJ Haus! Flip it for many of these teams. I had them in Top 10 of their class back in June's review/preview when I did a Top 10, (sometimes a Top 15) for all the teams in the state. Here's thoughts then on them.
8 Thomas Jefferson D-7 8-4
Thomas Jefferson fielded another strong team last year that put coach Bill Cherpak in the 300-win club with a record of 300-54, nine Wpial titles, and State Titles in 2004, 2007, 2008, 2019 and 2020. Last year’s team had another in a long list of strong O-Lines with Peyton Krueger (6-3, 275), Nick Florian (6-1, 270), Nathan Everley (6-6, 255), TE/DE Jordan Meyer (6-5, 230, 21-268py, 48 tackles, Wis), Brenden Fulmer (6-1, 270), etc, etc. They graduated. But they return a lot of skill in Qb Brody Evans (6-3, 195, sr, 58%-1986, 19/9) Rbs Elias Lippincott (6-2, 220, 909ry) and Aidan Whalen (542), and receiver Sean Sullivan (880py). And with their history of cranking out linemen, you’d think they’ll find a way. They open with home games against Baldwin and West Mifflin before a road trips to Latrobe and the real test at Belle Vernon.
**** 1 thru 7 was McDevitt, Aliquippa, Manheim Central, Bonner-Prendi, Central Valley, McKeesport, PJP-2 tied with Lampeter Strasburg at 7.

 

[Hausmann1978]

Never wrong going with TJ Haus! Flip it for many of these teams. I had them in Top 10 of their class back in June's review/preview when I did a Top 10, (sometimes a Top 15) for all the teams in the state. Here's thoughts then on them.
8 Thomas Jefferson D-7 8-4
Thomas Jefferson fielded another strong team last year that put coach Bill Cherpak in the 300-win club with a record of 300-54, nine Wpial titles, and State Titles in 2004, 2007, 2008, 2019 and 2020. Last year’s team had another in a long list of strong O-Lines with Peyton Krueger (6-3, 275), Nick Florian (6-1, 270), Nathan Everley (6-6, 255), TE/DE Jordan Meyer (6-5, 230, 21-268py, 48 tackles, Wis), Brenden Fulmer (6-1, 270), etc, etc. They graduated. But they return a lot of skill in Qb Brody Evans (6-3, 195, sr, 58%-1986, 19/9) Rbs Elias Lippincott (6-2, 220, 909ry) and Aidan Whalen (542), and receiver Sean Sullivan (880py). And with their history of cranking out linemen, you’d think they’ll find a way. They open with home games against Baldwin and West Mifflin before a road trips to Latrobe and the real test at Belle Vernon.
**** 1 thru 7 was McDevitt, Aliquippa, Manheim Central, Bonner-Prendi, Central Valley, McKeesport, PJP-2 tied with Lampeter Strasburg at 7.

Nothing wrong with your list and definitely not questioning it but I'm just really big on tj this year. I think them, aliquippa and bishop mcdevitt are ahead of everyone else. 4A is the most balanced state wide and I'm excited for the season. With next year being a realignment year I think if mcdevitt wins a couple playoff games they will get forced up. Same with aliquippa which we all know how that worked out a few years ago. Aliquippa threatened to leave the piaa but can't really blame them being a single A school. This year it'll be the usual suspects come late December but next year could get real interesting. Keep up with your state rankings and power rankings. It's all just for fun and makes for good discussion. I think yours are more accurate then pennlive and other state rankings.

 

[Stalker]

Nothing wrong with your list and definitely not questioning it but I'm just really big on tj this year. I think them, aliquippa and bishop mcdevitt are ahead of everyone else. 4A is the most balanced state wide and I'm excited for the season. With next year being a realignment year I think if mcdevitt wins a couple playoff games they will get forced up. Same with aliquippa which we all know how that worked out a few years ago. Aliquippa threatened to leave the piaa but can't really blame them being a single A school. This year it'll be the usual suspects come late December but next year could get real interesting. Keep up with your state rankings and power rankings. It's all just for fun and makes for good discussion. I think yours are more accurate then pennlive and other state rankings.

Thank you Haus. 4A is exciting this year and I think 5A maybe more so. There are some brutes in 5A! Very exciting and good reminders on class upgrades next year. Many of us didn't like it when McDevitt dropped down and unfortunately out of the 'Commonwealth Div' with SC, CD, CV, Hbg, etc into the ultra-weak Keystone Div.

But I think at some point the PIAA has to cap it on how high and long you elevate the small schools (1, 2 and 3A) and stop penalizing a team unendingly for success. What a backwards world the PIAA lives in.

 

[Hausmann1978]

Thank you Haus. 4A is exciting this year and I think 5A maybe more so. There are some brutes in 5A! Very exciting and good reminders on class upgrades next year. Many of us didn't like it when McDevitt dropped down and unfortunately out of the 'Commonwealth Div' with SC, CD, CV, Hbg, etc into the ultra-weak Keystone Div.

But I think at some point the PIAA has to cap it on how high and long you elevate the small schools (1, 2 and 3A) and stop penalizing a team unendingly for success. What a backwards world the PIAA lives in.

I couldn't agree more. The piaa has always done things their own way. They can never seem to get things right. A good example is look how many great 5A teams are in district 1 and district 7 and a lot of those really good teams missed the playoffs last year because of it. Erie prep is the only 5A school in district 10 and didn't play a playoff game until the semi finals. I think they should take the best teams from the east and west and seed them. Some really good 5A teams missed the playoffs last year.

 

[RCH13co18]

I couldn't agree more. The piaa has always done things their own way. They can never seem to get things right. A good example is look how many great 5A teams are in district 1 and district 7 and a lot of those really good teams missed the playoffs last year because of it. Erie prep is the only 5A school in district 10 and didn't play a playoff game until the semi finals. I think they should take the best teams from the east and west and seed them. Some really good 5A teams missed the playoffs last year.

Cut District 1 playoffs down. I don’t wanna see prep v GV any more. I’m sure parkland or freedom would like a chance to play District 1 in the playoffs. You can make 2 districts with district 1.

 

[Hausmann1978]

Exactly, seed them and match them up that way. There's no reason really good teams with good records Should miss the playoffs and another team get bi's all the way to the semifinals.

 

[bucksftball]

Cut District 1 playoffs down. I don’t wanna see prep v GV any more. I’m sure parkland or freedom would like a chance to play District 1 in the playoffs. You can make 2 districts with district 1.

The playoffs are clearly broken, having bye weeks are a huge advantage for a team to not only get healthy but avoid any additional injuries. The problem is that in 6A, District 1 has 33 out of 88 teams in the state, and a lot of parity so that a high seed doesn't necessarily get you an easy path. I'd love to see D1 go to 12 teams with a week 1 bye for the top 4 seeds. Makes the seeds more important. Alternatively, like you said, you could take some of the teams out of the D1 outskirts and balance the districts out more.

Maybe part of the solution is that the final 4 is more of a random event, draw them from a hat before the playoffs to determine who gets to play The Prep, or just rotate it around each year so it's only duplicated every 4 years.

 

[Fletchster1]

Or just remove non-boundary schools from the playoffs like the Inter-Ac.

 

[Stalker]

Or just remove non-boundary schools from the playoffs like the Inter-Ac.

Fletchster1, I'm repeating myself but this entire topic repeats itself every few months so what the hell.
I call the team that gets their ass kicked by St. Joe's, or any private school in the final, "The Public School Champ" and the Hawks the "Overal State Champ."
You don't have to eliminate anyone. Let em play. Just give separate medals honoring each.

 

[yeez1001]

Cut District 1 playoffs down. I don’t wanna see prep v GV any more. I’m sure parkland or freedom would like a chance to play District 1 in the playoffs. You can make 2 districts with district 1.

Lehigh valley would wipe the floor with district 1. some of the best coaching in the state.

 

[Fletchster1]

I believe it's more nuanced than that. Boundary schools that are within a doable commute to a successful non-boundary program are more likely to lose top players to those schools. Removal of the opportunity to beat up on boundary schools in the playoffs might remove some of the luster of playing for a non-boundary school.

 

[Stalker]

I believe it's more nuanced than that. Boundary schools that are within a doable commute to a successful non-boundary program are more likely to lose top players to those schools. Removal of the opportunity to beat up on boundary schools in the playoffs might remove some of the luster of playing for a non-boundary school.

Most of the players don't care about the topics we discuss here on the board. They just want to play football. And the greater the challenge the better it is.
I know a player at Harrisburg who dedicated the offseason to beefing up so he could 'kick ass' when they play St. Joe's again. Doesn't care about non-boundary this or that. They're kids want to play ball.

 

[Fletchster1]

That Cougar player has/is hopefully done/doing everything within his control to alter the outcome. As he should, we use the mountain in front of us as a gauge to make us better. I'm assuming Garnet Valley players said/did the same thing last offseason and most players from State College, NA, MT, Dtown West, Nazareth, Parkland, CB West, Springford, PV, GV, and Cville are saying now until one or two of them meet up with SJP. O'Doyle Rules football isn't good for O'Doyle or its victims.

The players shouldn't be the ones to force or drive the change; it should be the school administrations.

 

[Stalker]

That Cougar player has/is hopefully done/doing everything within his control to alter the outcome. As he should, we use the mountain in front of us as a gauge to make us better. I'm assuming Garnet Valley players said/did the same thing last offseason and most players from State College, NA, MT, Dtown West, Nazareth, Parkland, CB West, Springford, PV, GV, and Cville are saying now until one or two of them meet up with SJP. O'Doyle Rules football isn't good for O'Doyle or its victims.

The players shouldn't be the ones to force or drive the change; it should be the school administrations.

"The players shouldn't be the ones to force or drive the change" I must be misunderstanding you. Are you saying they are?

I'm saying....end of the day, no one cares. Who's demanding any change except some individuals on the board. I don't hear it at any games, don't see any protest, letter writing campaigns announced from people you might think you'd hear it from. Where's the outcry?

 

[lilromeo]

I believe it's more nuanced than that. Boundary schools that are within a doable commute to a successful non-boundary program are more likely to lose top players to those schools. Removal of the opportunity to beat up on boundary schools in the playoffs might remove some of the luster of playing for a non-boundary school.

 

[lilromeo]

Well, just the opposite occured in New Jersey. The top football schools there are the privates. Bergan Catholic,Don Boscoe Prep Saint Peters etc. They became stronger when jersey split the public/ Privates

 

[Fletchster1]

Well, just the opposite occured in New Jersey. The top football schools there are the privates. Bergan Catholic,Don Boscoe Prep Saint Peters etc. They became stronger when jersey split the public/ Privates

Perfect scenario for all involved: SEPA could have a non-boundary playoff with the Inter-Ac, PCL, and Charter Schools. Other non-boundaries from around the state could join in the fun if they want to travel.