5A Final

[Gang $$ Green]

I’ve been on the board a long time. As roxy states way back when guys like us would say that the Catholic League would more than hold its own. I even said that don’t be surprised that over time it got to be ridiculous.

Got flamed as delusional by many District 1 guys and guys from Pittsburgh. Worked for Pittsburgh company and said same thing to folks there.

Catholic league is in PIAA because the powers that be got tired of hearing about PCL and that it tainted their state champion. Guys from west and central Pa were arrogant and thought they knew the landscape because PCC and ECP were already in.

What they missed is that Philadelphia metropolitan area is way larger than Pittsburgh. Once you start aggregating talent in a few key programs you get this. It’s not good for the game but you didn’t need to be Nostradamus to see what was coming.

In addition to awful for PIAA it’s destroyed the actual Catholic League. Year in year out three best programs in state are St. Joe prep, wood and LaSalle. Hasn’t been good development for any other program in PCL. They are all worse than they have been except for IMG, ahh I mean Neumann Goretti.

So no it’s not good but that’s what happened and some of us knew it. Forces inside PIAA still kinda ignoring it out of arrogance. That’s why the 6 classes. What did that fix. Pine Richland has chance tomorrow but it’s going to take a once every five team to beat the factories these programs have become. PR may be that team but again that does not solve the overall imbalance. Top of PCL more like north jersey now.

 

[Burrs5]

Gateway shouldn't be playing a team like Wood.

Should Wilmington be playing Southern Columbia? How about Homer Center playing Jeannette? Two blowout finals between all Pubs.

 

[Burrs5]

Green and roxy- do these blowouts make you happy? Do you think they're good for PA football? I'm sensing you guys are PLC guys, just want your honest opinion. What are viable options in your eyes or do you think just keep it the way it is?

Are you just as upset at the blowouts at the 1A and 2A levels betweengames involving all public school? Or do you just cherry-Puck the game with a PCL school?

 

[sammyk]

I was one who was for the PCL joining the PIAA and I think they should stay. Now I do think that PA should allow choice transfers for public schools and out west there should mass consolidations of districts.

 

[kitwor]

My big beef with this PCL conversation is that the talent gap has widened tremendously within the PCL from the moment they were invited to be part of the PIAA. From what I see schools like Judge, Roman, Ryan and Carroll will have less and less of a chance to compete within the conference for years to come. Back in the day all these schools competed with each other. Parity within this conference is long gone.

 

[Fletchster1]

Was the PCL more competitive prior to them joining the PIAA playoffs? Did other teams outside the big three win or compete for league championships? I seem to remember O’hara having some solid squads.

 

[kitwor]

Was the PCL more competitive prior to them joining the PIAA playoffs? Did other teams outside the big three win or compete for league championships? I seem to remember O’hara having some solid squads.

At one time or another all of them had runs: McDevitt in the late 80's, Ryan in the early 90's, Judge in the mid 80's.

 

[Fletchster1]

Should Wilmington be playing Southern Columbia? How about Homer Center playing Jeannette? Two blowout finals between all Pubs.

Definitely not good for high school football in PA, but at least they’re playing by the same rules (supposedly). No shame in getting beat up by a better team after earning a right to play in the state title game.

That being said, the Wood game was an entirely different animal. It was 42-0 at the half - it looked like a varsity vs junior varsity game. The other two games ended as blowouts, but Homer Center at least played with Jeanette for a little while and Southern Columbia had “only” 24 at the half.

 

[delcofootball1]

Are you just as upset at the blowouts at the 1A and 2A levels betweengames involving all public school? Or do you just cherry-Puck the game with a PCL school?

I hate all blowouts in the finals honestly. The private school problem isn't the only problem the PIAA has to face either. The transfer issue needs to be discussed. Maybe the best teams aren't always from the east and west. Like basketball, maybe football should go to a tournament like setup where you can end up with two teams from the same side, possibly even the same league. Like i said I don't know what the answer is- whatever gives me 6 great games to watch over the weekend I guess. Just kidding.

 

[Burrs5]

Was the PCL more competitive prior to them joining the PIAA playoffs? Did other teams outside the big three win or compete for league championships? I seem to remember O’hara having some solid squads.

In the 5 seasons prior to the PCL joining the PIAA (2003-2007) the Blue (smaller) Division had a Wood/West Catholic final every year. Wood won three times and West twice. In the bigger Red SJ Prep appeared 5 Times, but they only won twice (vs O’Hara) and lost three times (O’Hara, LaSalle, and Roman). All of these games were tight; 12-7 (CO), 14-7 (LS), and 10-9 (RC). Interestingly, SJP best RC (36-7) and LS (42-14) in their RS match-up. SJP beat CO (12-7) in that RS matchup. That same year O’Hara beat North Penn (21-20), who was coming off a convincing (37-10) State 4A title over PCC the year before. North Penn reached the D-1 final that year, but lost to Neshaminy (54-37), who in turn were handled by PCC in the state final.

 

[Burrs5]

That Gateway team was not at all impressive. I could tell within 5 minutes that they didn’t stand a chance vs Wood. It was a matchup nightmare for them. They didn’t seem physical, tough enough, and way too much finesse. Wood got more resistance from teams in this side of the state. And I’d be willing to bet that 3-4 5A teams from SE PA would have been able to play and possibly beat that Gateway team.

 

[GumbaToo]

It’s been a long time since I have posted here. The private / public school debate was going on back in the late 1990’s early 2000’s when I first started posting. It was different in that there was little respect for the PCL back then. A different situation from the western part of the state. In my view the PCL was always one of the best leagues in the state although there was no definitive way to prove it other than some antidotal meetings between public and private schools. As inter league play increased and the PCL joined the PIAA the debate evolved more to the recruiting advantage of the private schools. The quality of PCL teams was hard to debate.

Two major changes over the past 15-20 years were the reduction in the number of the PCL schools and the PCL joining the PIAA. In general I think that both have tended to help PCL sports programs. The reduction in PCL high schools has caused a concentration of talent among PCL schools. Joining the PIAA has probably reduced the number of CYO players that have gone on to play in public high schools. In a way, the number of CYO players artificially increased the overall quality of the public schools that they played for. Keep in mind that CYO football does not have weight limits. In my mind it’s the best training ground for players going on to high school.

I can only speak about bucks County in general but having coached CYO football for close to 15 years I know that in the past many great CYO players that could have played at schools like Wood, Ryan, Eagan went on to play at schools like Neshaminy or CB West in their heyday. Maybe now are going to schools like Wood, SJP, and LaSalle if they care about a state championship. Good players are going to gravitate to the best programs.

There is probably no solution to the differences that exist between public and private schools. Football and sports are not even the most important factor and are not important at all for most parents I deciding where to send their kids.

If you wanted to make it equal give each parent /studen the same voucher amount to use at the school of his or her choosing, public, private or charter. Let the market place decide.

 

[Gang $$ Green]

The Catholic League has changed considerably. However for those of us who have long associations with the league we all would argue it has always been a premier league. Has a great and unique history. Part of the reason Bishop McFadden wanted in the PIAA is he thought the league didn't get the respect it should state wide.

We are 25 years into the iteration of it today. Open enrollment started in 1992. This and rising tuition costs over time created changed the world order. It has had some interesting consequences, some easily seen others not as much. Also over the 25 years the demographics of where Catholics live has changed and some of the schools primarily serve a non Catholic community. So a lot has changed.

In football there has actually been a reversal of what most would think. It would appear that more and better kids must be playing at these powerhouses. Not necessarily the case. CYO football was always the best place to judge young talent because of level of play and no weight limit. There were tons of teams and lots of talent. As that became the place to get recruited by tuition schools everyone found their way into CYO. Used to be that you had to be Catholic. Now you just have to live in an area that has a Catholic church. So the aggregation of talent started at CYO. So the best kids were more easily identified. Places like Prep and Wood that had success could find a lot of good players at same place. Then as they got better players and won more the net widens. Now they canvass the earth because parents of best players want their kids to play for the "state title". So the best kid from wildcat aa, xyz middle school, just about any place they play becomes an option and they seek your program out. Plus these places go out and see a ton of kids. Not just looking for the obvious studs.They need kids who are program guys as well. Kids that fit into team, fit academically, parents who can pay the freight. it's all part of it.

Now a place like Prep has aggregated an unbelievable amount of talent. It's extremely hard to get on the field there. Many, many good to very good players will never start there. Why do you think their specials are so good. In a lot of cases very good players are out there busting it on the eight plays they may get. Kid playing tonight I know well who is a top 7 player his home district class who does nothing but run under kicks for them. His district team is top 10 6a program and he'd start both ways for them.

In my opinion watching these kids 4 of the 6 best QBs in the entire PCL are on Prep's roster. The most talented QB in Delaware County is a backup soph WR at Prep. Never throw a football at Prep. Probably be a D1 receiver though. Now this has created other situations. Because it's so hard to play at Prep the next level talent has to go somewhere. That next level talent is better then before and playing better youth comp. Where they aren't really going en masse in our area is O'Hara, Carroll and Bonner. Too expensive for non private school education. All have been good programs with Delco kids. So next tier is inter ac. After that it's public school. So in a weird way the Garnet Valleys, Marples, Springfields, Haverfords all have kids on the roster in the old world order they would never have. They have been huge beneficiaries of the collapse of balance of power in PCL.

When other coaches from PCL and Inter Ac hear Prep wants a kid they move a level down too next kid. So kids like the QB at Marple, RB at Marple, RB at Garnet Valley, RB at Springfield, QB at Haverford, WR at Haverford, CB at Haverford, DE at Garnet Valley, OL at Garnet who would be private or parochial kids 10 years ago play for home district. Mainly because privates took other kids and it's more appealing to go to school for free and at least compete for your league title and maybe win some district games then go to Carroll and get destroyed each week for past two years. Plus pay for the privilege.

This is just the eighth grade side and Delco/Chesco based. Doesn't even touch on HS transfers and focuses in on really what is 1/4 of the real net for kids. The reality is there is no more PCL. It doesn't exist. There is Prep, Wood, LaSalle. Then there are the teams who are relegated to have to play them and get destroyed with no chance of anything and a bunch of smaller schools playing each other with visions of some greater state success in insert BS classification here. Kinda like the NBA. The small guys are the lottery teams. Roman, Judge, Ryan in 8 seed hell.