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Huck's last post

D1 Transplant

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2014
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Huck brings up so many good points. Teams like N Penn and Pennsbury, as well as others have huge student bodies as well as beautiful facilities. The problem, the PLC wants to win championships, District One doesn't. It's been 13 years since a 4A championships. The bottom line, coaching, plain and simple. When was the last time a head coach in district one was replaced, at any level, because he didn't win?

This is just my opinion, but Pennsbury doesn't win the championship in District 3, 7, or 11.



This post was edited on 12/7 12:15 PM by D1 Transplant

This post was edited on 12/7 12:15 PM by D1 Transplant
 
In the beginning of state playoffs schools wanted to prove themselves. Ridley, Coatesville, CB schools, Neshaminy, Pennsbury, PW, Downingtown. CBW set the bar and others had to step up to compete. Today the top teams don't really have to compete, socialistic playoff system that guarentees even mediocre teams a spot. District 1 gets into state semi finals regardless of how poor the district is. The truth is Pennsbury this year would have had trouble beating parkland, Easton, Whitehall. Can't blame it all on recruiting.
 
Facilities and big enrollments have nothing to do with it given the multiple 4A D7 titles from schools that are almost AAA in enrollment. Coaching of course, but to say District One doesn't want to win championships misguided.

NPenn was in final in 2011 narrowly losing to Central Dauphin, 14-7. Coatesville got to the final the following year losing big to NA. Saw CD and believe me, NP wanted to win that game. Ditto for Coach Ortega and the teams he fields at Cville every year.

Agree with you on Pennsbury in D3; but they'd be awesomely competitive, similar to Cumberland Valley (Wing-T-ish) but lose to more progressive teams like Central Dauphin, CD East, Harrisburg, Cedar Cliff, Wilson et al. Those teams typically have great defenses as well and when CV does, they are hard to beat with that old school running game but you have to have a great defense and spec teams to go along with the "3 yards and a cloud of plastic" approach now days.
 
Combinations of the right kids at the right time is an excellent point. The size of the school has some bearing but really not much. Administrative cooperation and backing, a community willing to invest tax dollars, etc. also have an effect.

If my research is correct, as big as Pennsbury is, in the major Boys' sports of Basketball, Football, Baseball, Soccer and Wrestling, Pennsbury has never won a State title. The only Pennsbury major sports that have won a District 1 Championship are Football in 2006 and 2014, and Baseball in the 90's. (A few such as bowling, track, X country have won District 1 Titles and I think there is a State title or two in that group)

In Football, only 5 D-1 4A Coaches have won more than one District 1 Championship since the Playoffs started in 1988:

Beck-6, Schmidt-3, Ward-2, Snyder-2, and Pettine, Sr.-4, out of all those years and 40+ schools. The first 3 went on to win States one time with Pettine winning several more, I think.

Look at the other coaches in the District who have won one or none and consider all the stars that have to be aligned for a team to win even one District Championship, let alone a State. There are many very good coaches who wish they could have had two championship seasons like those 4 coaches.



This post was edited on 12/8 8:10 AM by ftballtalk
 
District championship games did not start until 1992. Beck has won 6 D1 championships, two more than Pettine. John Barr from Downingtown also has two D1 championships and a state title.
 
In AAA, Kevin Clancy at Strath Haven has won 11 Dist.1 Championships

nfm

This post was edited on 12/7 8:54 PM by delcojim
 
I would rate the factors needed to win a State title like this...

1.Players, gotta have talent first before your even in the conversation. Just look at the last 8 teams playing this weekend. Great players get you through 13, 14 games in high school.
2.Schedule, only b/c it could be the difference between a bad playoff matchup or more favorable one if your schedule gets you the seeding
3.Coaching, eventually in the playoffs you will run into a team that is just as talented as you are. This is where coaching comes in. Not just experience in big games but the ability to make key adjustments to your scheme based on weather, injuries, or opponent
4.Luck, lets face it, most teams that win the State Championship have a little luck along the way. Mainly the luck comes from having the right combination of players at the right time & avoiding major injuries.


This post was edited on 12/7 9:02 PM by not_a_fan
 
Oops, typo for Beck. 6 correct. I couldn't find the correct number for Pettine. Had trouble finding a definitive source. If you have one, please post it.

I mixed up the start of the District Championships with the first State Championships.

Knew Barr had one and the State title. Missed the other.

Thanks for the correction, Relayer.

The point is still the same. Very few, 5, out of the many head coaches between the start of the Championships and now have won more than one Title. That's a lot of schools and a lot of coaches. Even a school with the numbers of Pennsbury hasn't won many titles in any of the major boys' sports.

District (and State) Titles are worthy of respect.

Delco - a truly impressive accomplishment. I was focusing on the larger schools and 4A as a reference in this particular post.
But it is a record worth noting.
This post was edited on 12/7 9:13 PM by ftballtalk
 
Very salient points, Not_a_fan. I agree with all of them, especially the luck and injuries over which there is no control.

This post was edited on 12/7 9:23 PM by ftballtalk
 
Re: From 1997 to 2003.........

Great facilities and great school enrollment are very much over rated in my opinion. Some of the best football facilities , like lower merion, will never win in football. If the size of the school mattered, Reading and Upper Darby would be good every year.

To me its talent first, coaching second. Ask any PCL if he had to decide between a million dollar football upgrade but he could not actively go out and solicit / sell his program and instead would have to coach whomever walked through the doors in 9 th grade and im sure they would all turn down the facilty improvent. The ability to attract players , and talented players cannot be discounted.

Now, once you get the talent, it still has to be coached. And coaxching football in D1 has almost become a tenured position. Unless you do so,etching stupid or commit a crime,it your job for as long as you want it. The poster above is right, no one ever gets fired for a bad won loss record. Ridley went 8-3 this year and mostb ant the coach fired. But that situation is rare. In many of the other districts, coaches change teams on a regular basis, are lured away from other schools , the coaching jobs almost always come with a teaching job in the school and other perks. But not here. Since the playoff system started in the late 80's, has there been any coach who has had any success at two different D1 programs ? I can't think of sny. But in each of the other major distrcts there is always a coach moving from one school to another because the school wanted him. Happens in D3, D7, zd11. But not here. You take any of the council rock schools for example. If their ad picks up,the phone tomorrow and offers a combined coaching /teaching job to Schmidt or Devlin that pays $90,000 a year , that might be enough to make that school a playoff contender in 3 yrs. but the parent booster program gets involved, or the teachers union, or the school board, etc and iit would never happen.
 
Re: From 1997 to 2003.........

Clancy has success at both Carroll and Haven so he is one example of someone who had success in PIAA playoffs and PCL playoffs as well.
 
Re: From 1997 to 2003.........


But Clancy's success in the PCL predates the PCL joining the PIAA,and he switched schools over 20 yrs ago. But he was a caoch who was succesfuul, was hired AWAY from Carroll, and Haven also found a job for him in the school,a nd look how it worked out. This type of hire is typical in other districts, other states, but very rare in District one.
 
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