Trump destroys media....

[njfan47]

Liberal loons will continue to be in denial, but Trump destroyed the media today. If this were a fight, it would have been stopped. Trump has discredited the media to such a level that they are kind of between a rock and a hard place. If they continue to turn up the heat with FAKE NEWS, they risk damaging their reputation even more, if that's possible. If they lay off a little bit, the aren't doing their job as a wing of the democratic party.

Today, there were continued references to the "failing New York Times." This is just something that presidents don't say; and that's why we love Donnie! And also because it freaks out Sammy and Reluctant. Think about it, Sammy has probably set a record for the amount of posts over a short period of time. This is a clinical condition that needs to be addressed quickly.

One media stiff was told that he had to wait to ask his question because his ratings were not as good as some of the other people who were waiting to ask questions. Even the stiff laughed. Also, the name is being changed to VERY FAKE NEWS. Even the stiff laughed again. One of the best lines was "the public doesn't believe you people any more."

It's great to have a president who 1) gets things done; 2) attacks the media; 3) is entertaining; and 4) who drives liberals off the deep end. It's the best of all worlds.

 

[njfan47]

Very predictable that Sammy would put a lot of posts on top of the Trump Destroys Media post. The guy is hurting. Does the new democrat governor offer counselling in North Carolina?

 

[tulla]

Liberal loons will continue to be in denial, but Trump destroyed the media today. If this were a fight, it would have been stopped. Trump has discredited the media to such a level that they are kind of between a rock and a hard place. If they continue to turn up the heat with FAKE NEWS, they risk damaging their reputation even more, if that's possible. If they lay off a little bit, the aren't doing their job as a wing of the democratic party.

Today, there were continued references to the "failing New York Times." This is just something that presidents don't say; and that's why we love Donnie! And also because it freaks out Sammy and Reluctant. Think about it, Sammy has probably set a record for the amount of posts over a short period of time. This is a clinical condition that needs to be addressed quickly.

One media stiff was told that he had to wait to ask his question because his ratings were not as good as some of the other people who were waiting to ask questions. Even the stiff laughed. Also, the name is being changed to VERY FAKE NEWS. Even the stiff laughed again. One of the best lines was "the public doesn't believe you people any more."

It's great to have a president who 1) gets things done; 2) attacks the media; 3) is entertaining; and 4) who drives liberals off the deep end. It's the best of all worlds.

People who are ardent Trump supporters no doubt loved his performance today. People who are not, i.e. the majority of Americans, had another view.

A few observations. Trump lied about his having the biggest electoral college win since Reagan. He's made such claims many times before and they've been debunked each time, so it can't be that he wasn't aware it's false. But when corrected, he tried to say he meant the biggest EC victory by a Republican. When corrected (because George Bush's 1988 victory was much bigger), he blamed whoever gave him the information because, as we know, he never admits to a mistake or acknowledges that something he has said that is false is actually false--rather it's just something someone passed on to him. We're a long way from "The buck stops here."

He contradicted himself many times, e.g, he says he never watches CNN but then made several comments, e.g. about the program that begins at 10:00 pm, that indicate he is very familiar with it.

He claims the roll-out of his executive order was, if I was hearing right, "perfect." General Kelly himself and many Republican senators have said it was not adequately vetted. Again, Trump showed he cannot acknowledge a shortcoming. A trait that should be desired in a president?

He claimed to have accomplished more in his first month than any previous president. I guess he hadn't heard of FDR. Obama had most of his economic recovery plan in place. Sure Trump has signed lots of Executive Orders, but has Obamacare been repealed or replaced? Mexico sending us checks to pay for the wall--or the fence? Have talks to renegotiate NAFTA even been scheduled? (On Monday Trump said that in relation to Canada NAFTA required only "tweaks.")

About Russia and General Flynn, Trump as all hot air. When Putin decided not to retaliate when the U.S. imposed additional sanctions and expelled some Russian diplomats, Trump tweated about how smart that was on Putin's part. Does anyone seriously believe that there was no connection between what Flynn was discussing with the Russian ambassador the day the sanctions were announced and what Putin decided to do or not do and what Trump then tweated? And does anyone think Trump would have asked for Flynn's resignation if there hadn't been the leaks he (Trump) finds so awful? (Trump learned that Flynn mislead--lied--to Pence on January 26 but didn't ask him to resign till late on Feb. 13--only after the Washington Post printed the entirely un-fake news that Flynn had lied to Pence.) What a great hire Flynn was--gone in less than a month. Of course, the media is to blame.

What we saw was a president obsessed with himself. How many times did he refer to the Rasmusson poll indicating a 55% approval rating? Of course he didn't mention the several other polls all showing unprecedented levels of disapproval of a new president less than a month into his term. Trump's vehement assertion of his own popularity and his relentless self-praise show weakness and extreme vanity, not strength.

 

[sammyk]

Even Fox News is asking questions now

 

[njfan47]

People who are ardent Trump supporters no doubt loved his performance today. People who are not, i.e. the majority of Americans, had another view.

A few observations. Trump lied about his having the biggest electoral college win since Reagan. He's made such claims many times before and they've been debunked each time, so it can't be that he wasn't aware it's false. But when corrected, he tried to say he meant the biggest EC victory by a Republican. When corrected (because George Bush's 1988 victory was much bigger), he blamed whoever gave him the information because, as we know, he never admits to a mistake or acknowledges that something he has said that is false is actually false--rather it's just something someone passed on to him. We're a long way from "The buck stops here."

He contradicted himself many times, e.g, he says he never watches CNN but then made several comments, e.g. about the program that begins at 10:00 pm, that indicate he is very familiar with it.

He claims the roll-out of his executive order was, if I was hearing right, "perfect." General Kelly himself and many Republican senators have said it was not adequately vetted. Again, Trump showed he cannot acknowledge a shortcoming. A trait that should be desired in a president?

He claimed to have accomplished more in his first month than any previous president. I guess he hadn't heard of FDR. Obama had most of his economic recovery plan in place. Sure Trump has signed lots of Executive Orders, but has Obamacare been repealed or replaced? Mexico sending us checks to pay for the wall--or the fence? Have talks to renegotiate NAFTA even been scheduled? (On Monday Trump said that in relation to Canada NAFTA required only "tweaks.")

About Russia and General Flynn, Trump as all hot air. When Putin decided not to retaliate when the U.S. imposed additional sanctions and expelled some Russian diplomats, Trump tweated about how smart that was on Putin's part. Does anyone seriously believe that there was no connection between what Flynn was discussing with the Russian ambassador the day the sanctions were announced and what Putin decided to do or not do and what Trump then tweated? And does anyone think Trump would have asked for Flynn's resignation if there hadn't been the leaks he (Trump) finds so awful? (Trump learned that Flynn mislead--lied--to Pence on January 26 but didn't ask him to resign till late on Feb. 13--only after the Washington Post printed the entirely un-fake news that Flynn had lied to Pence.) What a great hire Flynn was--gone in less than a month. Of course, the media is to blame.

What we saw was a president obsessed with himself. How many times did he refer to the Rasmusson poll indicating a 55% approval rating? Of course he didn't mention the several other polls all showing unprecedented levels of disapproval of a new president less than a month into his term. Trump's vehement assertion of his own popularity and his relentless self-praise show weakness and extreme vanity, not strength.

Extremely good nitpicking Tulla! At the end of the day, it's all about what Trump can do for the people and the country. As Eleanor Roosevelt said....you know the rest, I assume.

Trump shouldn't cite polls, but you probably shouldn't either, as we kinda know how that worked out on election day! By the way, are you going to answer the question about the supposed constitutionality court rulings, i.e. Marbury vs. Madison?

 

[njfan47]

Even Fox News is asking questions now

Yes Sammy, TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) is in full force. At least you can "feel" better that you have some company. For me, they more the left complains, the better I like Trump. I still think you need to see a specialist!

 

[tulla]

Extremely good nitpicking Tulla! At the end of the day, it's all about what Trump can do for the people and the country. As Eleanor Roosevelt said....you know the rest, I assume.

Trump shouldn't cite polls, but you probably shouldn't either, as we kinda know how that worked out on election day! By the way, are you going to answer the question about the supposed constitutionality court rulings, i.e. Marbury vs. Madison?

My objection to that executive order is not based on its constitutionality--or its unconstitutionality. People much much more learned in the law disagree over its constitutionality. (The fact that Trump thinks the question could be resolved by even a bad middle school student--why have judges when nearly everything can be decided by an appeal to the "poorly educated?--is another matter since it shows a contempt for any judge who might have an opinion different from his own.)

My objection is based on its being, in my view, badly drafted--despite what Trump claimed about its being flawless and in accord with what even General Kelly said--and just bad policy. The Trump people kept referring to the list as coming straight out of the Obama administration--the same administration Trump said left the country in "a complete mess"--when the fact is that the Obama administration had no plans for such a ban.

Did you see McCain's comments today about Trump's attack on the media? (I know McCain may have a particular grudge against Trump, but Trump's comment a year ago about McCain was awful and quite telling about Trump's character--don't you think?) The media as "enemies of the people"? That language is straight out of Lenin and Hitler. I don't think we're near Germany in the early '30s or Bolshevik Russia, but we're more than a little closer than we were a few months ago.

 

[njfan47]

My objection to that executive order is not based on its constitutionality--or its unconstitutionality. People much much more learned in the law disagree over its constitutionality. (The fact that Trump thinks the question could be resolved by even a bad middle school student--why have judges when nearly everything can be decided by an appeal to the "poorly educated?--is another matter since it shows a contempt for any judge who might have an opinion different from his own.)

My objection is based on its being, in my view, badly drafted--despite what Trump claimed about its being flawless and in accord with what even General Kelly said--and just bad policy. The Trump people kept referring to the list as coming straight out of the Obama administration--the same administration Trump said left the country in "a complete mess"--when the fact is that the Obama administration had no plans for such a ban.

Did you see McCain's comments today about Trump's attack on the media? (I know McCain may have a particular grudge against Trump, but Trump's comment a year ago about McCain was awful and quite telling about Trump's character--don't you think?) The media as "enemies of the people"? That language is straight out of Lenin and Hitler. I don't think we're near Germany in the early '30s or Bolshevik Russia, but we're more than a little closer than we were a few months ago.

I do believe that you specifically mentioned or inferred that the courts had the constitutional power to make these decisions; they do not, the granted this power to themselves in the Marbury vs. Madison case in 1803.

There were some issues with the plan, but that's always going to be the case. There were something like 126 people stopped out of hundreds of thousands, yet CBS TV News had so much coverage dedicated to their Saturday evening broadcast two weeks ago, that it left the impression that there was mass chaos. This was not the case. It was largely a media creation in terms of its impact on over 300 million people. Just ask yourself, where was the same heavy coverage by the left media when the female Riverside, CA terrorist was allowed into this country and was responsible for killing 21 people. Shouldn't there have been in-depth investigative reporting by CBS, NBC, ABC, NYT, etc. into how this could happen. I challenge you to find it and if you do, please consider positioning of the story (front page vs. back page) frequency of coverage, time dedicated to the issue, etc. You do know that Obama had a fundraising event in the HOUSE of Les Moonves, CEO of CBS, right?

I don't think one has to be very intelligent to see how this works. The left media is largely nothing more than the marketing/public relations wing of the democratic party. More and more people see this for what it is. I love when Trump attacks the media; they deserve it. It's long overdue. They are irrelevant, as he is a star-quality president, and I am talking about his entertainment value; he still needs to execute and prove that he can manage affairs. The word is out about the media and Trump is the chief messenger of this.

Your comments about Russia/Germany are way over the top. This is nothing more than non-establishment vs. establishment. The establishment sees their power waning as large amounts of the electorate wise up. You do know that the Dems have lost ~ 1,000 governmental posts since 2010, right? Le Pen could win in France, Brexit won out. I think it's fairly obvious that a substantial amount of the electorate is fed up with failed liberal policies.

As for McCain, he's irrelevant. He has stuck around for way too long, was a terrible presidential candidate, and is ineffective. He should retire. As for Trump's comments about McCain, it was a huge mistake and something that he never should have done. In most cases, it might have knocked him out of the race, but these are unique times and, whether you like it or not, he's a unique president.

 

[tulla]

I do believe that you specifically mentioned or inferred that the courts had the constitutional power to make these decisions; they do not, the granted this power to themselves in the Marbury vs. Madison case in 1803.

There were some issues with the plan, but that's always going to be the case. There were something like 126 people stopped out of hundreds of thousands, yet CBS TV News had so much coverage dedicated to their Saturday evening broadcast two weeks ago, that it left the impression that there was mass chaos. This was not the case. It was largely a media creation in terms of its impact on over 300 million people. Just ask yourself, where was the same heavy coverage by the left media when the female Riverside, CA terrorist was allowed into this country and was responsible for killing 21 people. Shouldn't there have been in-depth investigative reporting by CBS, NBC, ABC, NYT, etc. into how this could happen. I challenge you to find it and if you do, please consider positioning of the story (front page vs. back page) frequency of coverage, time dedicated to the issue, etc. You do know that Obama had a fundraising event in the HOUSE of Les Moonves, CEO of CBS, right?

I don't think one has to be very intelligent to see how this works. The left media is largely nothing more than the marketing/public relations wing of the democratic party. More and more people see this for what it is. I love when Trump attacks the media; they deserve it. It's long overdue. They are irrelevant, as he is a star-quality president, and I am talking about his entertainment value; he still needs to execute and prove that he can manage affairs. The word is out about the media and Trump is the chief messenger of this.

Your comments about Russia/Germany are way over the top. This is nothing more than non-establishment vs. establishment. The establishment sees their power waning as large amounts of the electorate wise up. You do know that the Dems have lost ~ 1,000 governmental posts since 2010, right? Le Pen could win in France, Brexit won out. I think it's fairly obvious that a substantial amount of the electorate is fed up with failed liberal policies.

As for McCain, he's irrelevant. He has stuck around for way too long, was a terrible presidential candidate, and is ineffective. He should retire. As for Trump's comments about McCain, it was a huge mistake and something that he never should have done. In most cases, it might have knocked him out of the race, but these are unique times and, whether you like it or not, he's a unique president.

Not sure how far I'll get in my response, but I'll start with your last point. Interesting that you say McCain is irrelevant, though he was just re-elected to the senate. What makes a senator relevant. That aside, we agree that Trump's comments last year were "a huge mistake" and something Trump should never have said. But of course, Trump has never apologized or said anything to suggest he regrets saying what he said about McCain. (Much more recently he has said that McCain and Graham want to start WWIII.)

And that gets us to a fact about Trump that I think we can all agree about: he never admits he was wrong about anything and often blames others for things he should take responsibility for. Take his statement (prepared in advance and something easily checked) in Thursday's press conference that he had the electoral college win since Reagan. When it was pointed out to him that in three elections since Reagan there were larger electoral college margins, he said something about he was simply stating the information that was given to him (by whom, I wonder?) and called on the next questioner. I guess it doesn't bother you that when someone makes such a mistake he should acknowledge the mistake. I'm not saying he should get on his knees or be extremely contrite, but he should say something like, "Thanks for the correction. I'm sorry I got that wrong." Never being able to do so is very telling. There are so many other examples: "highest crime rate in 47 years," "biggest crowd ever at an inauguration," etc.

It struck me as also telling that he said he fired Flynn because of what Flynn told or didn't tell Pence. But it was over two weeks after Trump was told that Flynn lied to Pence that Trump fired Flynn. What changed? Pence found out from the "fake news" media that he had been lied to by Flynn. So Trump's stated reason for firing Flynn doesn't hold up.

We disagree about bias in the mainstream media. They gave Trump a extraordinary amount of free publicity during the primaries and the general election campaign, in large part because their real bias is toward whatever is controversial, conflict-oriented, and--as you say--entertaining. Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" comes to mind. Aren't you at all unsettled when Trump says the media--or large parts of it--are "enemies of the people?" You know where such language comes from? The same place as "Only I can fix ..." Show me another president or presidential candidate who ever made such a claim.

Trump said again in Florida on Saturday that he was glad to be back among "the people." Again, he seems to be suggesting that the real people, the people who count, are the people who are the "enemies of the media," i.e his own supporters. I'm not saying he is Hitler or Lenin, but the attacks on the press--like his attack on the judges--resemble the attacks made by such figures.

 

[njfan47]

Not sure how far I'll get in my response, but I'll start with your last point. Interesting that you say McCain is irrelevant, though he was just re-elected to the senate. What makes a senator relevant. That aside, we agree that Trump's comments last year were "a huge mistake" and something Trump should never have said. But of course, Trump has never apologized or said anything to suggest he regrets saying what he said about McCain. (Much more recently he has said that McCain and Graham want to start WWIII.)

And that gets us to a fact about Trump that I think we can all agree about: he never admits he was wrong about anything and often blames others for things he should take responsibility for. Take his statement (prepared in advance and something easily checked) in Thursday's press conference that he had the electoral college win since Reagan. When it was pointed out to him that in three elections since Reagan there were larger electoral college margins, he said something about he was simply stating the information that was given to him (by whom, I wonder?) and called on the next questioner. I guess it doesn't bother you that when someone makes such a mistake he should acknowledge the mistake. I'm not saying he should get on his knees or be extremely contrite, but he should say something like, "Thanks for the correction. I'm sorry I got that wrong." Never being able to do so is very telling. There are so many other examples: "highest crime rate in 47 years," "biggest crowd ever at an inauguration," etc.

It struck me as also telling that he said he fired Flynn because of what Flynn told or didn't tell Pence. But it was over two weeks after Trump was told that Flynn lied to Pence that Trump fired Flynn. What changed? Pence found out from the "fake news" media that he had been lied to by Flynn. So Trump's stated reason for firing Flynn doesn't hold up.

We disagree about bias in the mainstream media. They gave Trump a extraordinary amount of free publicity during the primaries and the general election campaign, in large part because their real bias is toward whatever is controversial, conflict-oriented, and--as you say--entertaining. Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death" comes to mind. Aren't you at all unsettled when Trump says the media--or large parts of it--are "enemies of the people?" You know where such language comes from? The same place as "Only I can fix ..." Show me another president or presidential candidate who ever made such a claim.

Trump said again in Florida on Saturday that he was glad to be back among "the people." Again, he seems to be suggesting that the real people, the people who count, are the people who are the "enemies of the media," i.e his own supporters. I'm not saying he is Hitler or Lenin, but the attacks on the press--like his attack on the judges--resemble the attacks made by such figures.

No doubt that he exaggerates, doesn't admit mistakes, etc. But your issue with him is largely style and is, once again, nitpicking. The issue is what he can do for the people of this country and for the economy. Whether he gets it done remains to be seen, but the early signs are good. He is a man of action and he gets things done. Obama was more of a laid-back president who didn't want to take "extreme" positions; remember that he was not for gay marriage until the end of his first term.

Regarding Flynn, surely you don't expect him to provide details as to exactly what happened? That's just not the way it works. Did you call out Obama on Benghazi, the IRS scandal with the Tea Party, etc.? I suspect not.

As far as the media, you are apparently so dug in that nothing is going to change. Of course they gave Trump a ton of coverage during the primary; he was running against other Republicans! If you paid attention closely, that coverage went away once he won the Republican nomination. Most of his rallies were not covered by CNN, MSNBC, and even Fox. Only One America Network had live coverage in most cases. This is where some context must be considered. It's easy to say that Trump got a lot of coverage, but one needs to separate the timelines between pre-nomination and post-nomination.

Surely, you're aware of all of the Wiki Leaks information about John Harwood, CNBC's political "reporter" who was in close contact with Hillary's campaign manager, John Podesta, about what questions to ask at the GOP debate? Did you see Piers Morgan interviewed last week? He's surely not a conservative, but even he commented about how the NY Times had 11 pages in a row, all negative on Trump. If you don't truly believe that the media (NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC) have a bias toward the left, you just aren't dealing in reality.

I am not the least bit "unsettled" when Trump calls the media enemies of the people. They clearly aren't doing their job. This is what allows leaders like Obama to not have to answer to events like Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the Fannie Mae $250 billion bailout, etc.

 

[tulla]

No doubt that he exaggerates, doesn't admit mistakes, etc. But your issue with him is largely style and is, once again, nitpicking. The issue is what he can do for the people of this country and for the economy. Whether he gets it done remains to be seen, but the early signs are good. He is a man of action and he gets things done. Obama was more of a laid-back president who didn't want to take "extreme" positions; remember that he was not for gay marriage until the end of his first term.

Regarding Flynn, surely you don't expect him to provide details as to exactly what happened? That's just not the way it works. Did you call out Obama on Benghazi, the IRS scandal with the Tea Party, etc.? I suspect not.

As far as the media, you are apparently so dug in that nothing is going to change. Of course they gave Trump a ton of coverage during the primary; he was running against other Republicans! If you paid attention closely, that coverage went away once he won the Republican nomination. Most of his rallies were not covered by CNN, MSNBC, and even Fox. Only One America Network had live coverage in most cases. This is where some context must be considered. It's easy to say that Trump got a lot of coverage, but one needs to separate the timelines between pre-nomination and post-nomination.

Surely, you're aware of all of the Wiki Leaks information about John Harwood, CNBC's political "reporter" who was in close contact with Hillary's campaign manager, John Podesta, about what questions to ask at the GOP debate? Did you see Piers Morgan interviewed last week? He's surely not a conservative, but even he commented about how the NY Times had 11 pages in a row, all negative on Trump. If you don't truly believe that the media (NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC) have a bias toward the left, you just aren't dealing in reality.

I am not the least bit "unsettled" when Trump calls the media enemies of the people. They clearly aren't doing their job. This is what allows leaders like Obama to not have to answer to events like Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the Fannie Mae $250 billion bailout, etc.

Just a quick response to a couple of your points.

Not admitting to mistakes and insisting on falsehoods are not, in essence, matters of style; they're character traits and they are not leadership qualities.

About the Flynn firing: I'm not asking for classified information to be released to the public. I'm just noting that Trump's explanation for the firing doesn't pass the smell test. Without the story in the Washington Post, Pence would still not know Flynn lied to him and Flynn would still be in the White House. Do you disagree?

I don't regard those networks as left-wing. When I see them taking on the drug companies--something I'd like to see--I might change my opinion. And I think Benghazi and Hilary's emails got tons of coverage. I guess it's all a matter of one's perspective.

 

[njfan47]

Just a quick response to a couple of your points.

Not admitting to mistakes and insisting on falsehoods are not, in essence, matters of style; they're character traits and they are not leadership qualities.

About the Flynn firing: I'm not asking for classified information to be released to the public. I'm just noting that Trump's explanation for the firing doesn't pass the smell test. Without the story in the Washington Post, Pence would still not know Flynn lied to him and Flynn would still be in the White House. Do you disagree?

I don't regard those networks as left-wing. When I see them taking on the drug companies--something I'd like to see--I might change my opinion. And I think Benghazi and Hilary's emails got tons of coverage. I guess it's all a matter of one's perspective.

Trump doesn't admit mistakes, but that's a good trait when it comes to being a Republican president. Do you remember how often Bush 43 was asked this question and never answered? On the other hand, do you know how infrequently Obama was asked this question. It seems to me that you don't take a next-level look at things or consider things in context. But that's not really surprising since you are probably the last person in the country who thinks the media is straight-up honest in their reporting!

As far as Benghazi having received a "ton of coverage", I don't know how you quantify that, but I don't think you would to do a quantitative and qualitative review and consider positioning and timing of the coverage. Also, it was Candy Crowley, a former CNN anchor, who during a 2012 debate stepped in and helped Obama get the story "straight" after Romney brought it up. That was shameful for a moderator to do. Do you recall this? I suppose it was just random!

Of course Trump's explanation doesn't pass the smell test. He's not going to divulge all of the information. What did you think when Obama told O'Reilly that there was "not a smidgen of corruption" in the IRS case? I can't recall your post at that time, stating that Obama was clearly not being honest. It works both ways, but you're too dug in, apparently, to see it that way. I never liked Flynn from the start, thought he wasn't bright, thought he was too emotional, etc.

As far as your link to Hitler and Lenin, I can't even take it seriously. Trump has made general statements about the media being dishonest. This can be proven time and time again. On the other hand, what did you think/say/post when Obama mentioned that he could get a friend to rough up Sean Hannity? Imagine if Trump said he could send someone out to rough up Jake Tapper. Did you even know that this happened?

 

[tulla]

Trump doesn't admit mistakes, but that's a good trait when it comes to being a Republican president. Do you remember how often Bush 43 was asked this question and never answered? On the other hand, do you know how infrequently Obama was asked this question. It seems to me that you don't take a next-level look at things or consider things in context. But that's not really surprising since you are probably the last person in the country who thinks the media is straight-up honest in their reporting!

As far as Benghazi having received a "ton of coverage", I don't know how you quantify that, but I don't think you would to do a quantitative and qualitative review and consider positioning and timing of the coverage. Also, it was Candy Crowley, a former CNN anchor, who during a 2012 debate stepped in and helped Obama get the story "straight" after Romney brought it up. That was shameful for a moderator to do. Do you recall this? I suppose it was just random!

Of course Trump's explanation doesn't pass the smell test. He's not going to divulge all of the information. What did you think when Obama told O'Reilly that there was "not a smidgen of corruption" in the IRS case? I can't recall your post at that time, stating that Obama was clearly not being honest. It works both ways, but you're too dug in, apparently, to see it that way. I never liked Flynn from the start, thought he wasn't bright, thought he was too emotional, etc.

As far as your link to Hitler and Lenin, I can't even take it seriously. Trump has made general statements about the media being dishonest. This can be proven time and time again. On the other hand, what did you think/say/post when Obama mentioned that he could get a friend to rough up Sean Hannity? Imagine if Trump said he could send someone out to rough up Jake Tapper. Did you even know that this happened?

I never posted on this part of the site until recently. When I looked at it very occasionally, there seemed to be a lot of name-calling. We disagree, but we're not nasty. A long time ago I think you said something about being connected to Burlington County--which is one strange county! I know because I have close relatives who live or have lived in Riverside, Edgewater Park, and Burlington.

Back to the discussion. What's clear to me--and probably you too--is that our very different perspectives and positions are at least partly the result of getting our information from almost entirely different places. For instance, I never heard what you mentioned about Obama saying he could get a friend to rough up Hannity. But what strikes me is that if Obama did say such a thing I can't believe anyone would think he was at all serious. Obama has a sense of humor. I see no evidence that Trump does, and that's a worry. (You must remember Trump looking enraged when Obama showed the video of his birth at the White House Press dinner. Given Trump's long championing of "birthirism" it seemed to me that Obama was much more entitled to express anger, even a kind of rage. But he never did.)

I agree with you that Candy Crowley made a mistake in 2012. Did she act ouet of partiality? Perhaps. Does that mean CNN was biased?I don't think so. On the other hand, anyone watching the Matt Lauer interviews with Trump and Clinton would recognize how partial Lauer was. But maybe I'm wrong and Trump supporters think Lauer was even-handed.

Obama had great dignity, especially admirable given all the hostility that was directed toward him and his family and the lies told about him. (Why did so many people continue to believe he was a Muslim? It certainly didn't come from the "left-wing media".) Can you imagine what Fox and all the right-wing media would have said if Michelle had decided to stay in Chicago for at least some months with the two girls, requiring a very large increase in the secret service budget? Is there any doubt they would have been apoplectic? (I don't object at all to Melania's staying in N.Y. and getting appropriate security. I do have questions about the number of properties and people that have to be secured, guarded, etc.now that Trump is president. Fees at Mar Lago have doubled since Trump became president--a clear case of private gain coming as a result of his being president--so perhaps some of that extra money could go into building a secure room.)

I don't know why you think not admitting mistakes is a good thing in a Republican president. I think it's a good trait in all human beings.

 

[njfan47]

I never posted on this part of the site until recently. When I looked at it very occasionally, there seemed to be a lot of name-calling. We disagree, but we're not nasty. A long time ago I think you said something about being connected to Burlington County--which is one strange county! I know because I have close relatives who live or have lived in Riverside, Edgewater Park, and Burlington.

Back to the discussion. What's clear to me--and probably you too--is that our very different perspectives and positions are at least partly the result of getting our information from almost entirely different places. For instance, I never heard what you mentioned about Obama saying he could get a friend to rough up Hannity. But what strikes me is that if Obama did say such a thing I can't believe anyone would think he was at all serious. Obama has a sense of humor. I see no evidence that Trump does, and that's a worry. (You must remember Trump looking enraged when Obama showed the video of his birth at the White House Press dinner. Given Trump's long championing of "birthirism" it seemed to me that Obama was much more entitled to express anger, even a kind of rage. But he never did.)

I agree with you that Candy Crowley made a mistake in 2012. Did she act ouet of partiality? Perhaps. Does that mean CNN was biased?I don't think so. On the other hand, anyone watching the Matt Lauer interviews with Trump and Clinton would recognize how partial Lauer was. But maybe I'm wrong and Trump supporters think Lauer was even-handed.

Obama had great dignity, especially admirable given all the hostility that was directed toward him and his family and the lies told about him. (Why did so many people continue to believe he was a Muslim? It certainly didn't come from the "left-wing media".) Can you imagine what Fox and all the right-wing media would have said if Michelle had decided to stay in Chicago for at least some months with the two girls, requiring a very large increase in the secret service budget? Is there any doubt they would have been apoplectic? (I don't object at all to Melania's staying in N.Y. and getting appropriate security. I do have questions about the number of properties and people that have to be secured, guarded, etc.now that Trump is president. Fees at Mar Lago have doubled since Trump became president--a clear case of private gain coming as a result of his being president--so perhaps some of that extra money could go into building a secure room.)

I don't know why you think not admitting mistakes is a good thing in a Republican president. I think it's a good trait in all human beings.

Good memory, Tulla. I lived in the very northern part of Burlington County (Chesterfield), but moved to Naples, Florida about 3.5 years ago. Best move I have ever made. 84 degrees & sunny today with only 38% humidity. I think you are or were in upstate NY and you are a doctor or dentist? I remember a post about a long drive that you had to Prep (your Alma Mater) games, which you attended about one per year.

You are trying to let Obama off the hook by using the sense of humor excuse. My opinion only, but a presidential candidate should never mention anything like this, kidding or not. Good points on the birther issue; Trump never should have gotten involved.

Candy Crowley's mistake, if you want to call it that, was a mistake of commission, rather than omission, which is a big difference. She didn't have to speak up; she likely did so because she took a side.

Good points on first ladies' decisions and the impact thereof. Have the fees really doubled since the election? Even if so, I don't know why Dems are so hung up on this issue. I never had anything against anyone else getting rich or richer. These are all small details vs. the bigger picture of whether Trump can help the country. If he does, it will be a good thing; if he doesn't, he's out after four years. I do find it ironic that some Dems are so enraged and judgmental after the first two, three, four weeks. It's kind of comical to me, but I love to watch the psychological stuff unfold.

As far as mistakes, if Bush or Trump admitted them, they would be used against them. I noticed that you didn't answer on how infrequently Obama was asked about his mistakes by ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN. Politics is different than everyday life.

 

[tulla]

Good memory, Tulla. I lived in the very northern part of Burlington County (Chesterfield), but moved to Naples, Florida about 3.5 years ago. Best move I have ever made. 84 degrees & sunny today with only 38% humidity. I think you are or were in upstate NY and you are a doctor or dentist? I remember a post about a long drive that you had to Prep (your Alma Mater) games, which you attended about one per year.

You are trying to let Obama off the hook by using the sense of humor excuse. My opinion only, but a presidential candidate should never mention anything like this, kidding or not. Good points on the birther issue; Trump never should have gotten involved.

Candy Crowley's mistake, if you want to call it that, was a mistake of commission, rather than omission, which is a big difference. She didn't have to speak up; she likely did so because she took a side.

Good points on first ladies' decisions and the impact thereof. Have the fees really doubled since the election? Even if so, I don't know why Dems are so hung up on this issue. I never had anything against anyone else getting rich or richer. These are all small details vs. the bigger picture of whether Trump can help the country. If he does, it will be a good thing; if he doesn't, he's out after four years. I do find it ironic that some Dems are so enraged and judgmental after the first two, three, four weeks. It's kind of comical to me, but I love to watch the psychological stuff unfold.

As far as mistakes, if Bush or Trump admitted them, they would be used against them. I noticed that you didn't answer on how infrequently Obama was asked about his mistakes by ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN. Politics is different than everyday life.

nj

Yes, I'm a GP, now working part-time, north of Syracuse.

Glad you find Florida so pleasant. Living where I do, I get lots of news from Canada and elsewhere in the world (esp. via the BBC). No doubt our environments shape what we hear and what we think--though at least half the people in my town voted for Trump. So it's not like I'm in New Haven or Princeton!

All I can say about why the media didn't ask Obama directly about his mistakes is that he didn't say outrageous things or things that were patently false. He was often pressed about things like Syria (where I think his approach failed) and about the ACA (which I think was seriously flawed but still an improvement over what preceded it). Trump has said so many things over the years that were both false and provocative (and sometimes dangerous): the Muslims in Jersey publicly celebrating the 9/11 attacks, the "Central Park Five" claim, the birther nonsense, the "largest crowd ever at an inauguration," the 3-5 million fraudulent votes, etc. These vary greatly in their seriousness, but the pattern is worrisome. And of course reporters grow skeptical.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

 

[njfan47]

nj

Yes, I'm a GP, now working part-time, north of Syracuse.

Glad you find Florida so pleasant. Living where I do, I get lots of news from Canada and elsewhere in the world (esp. via the BBC). No doubt our environments shape what we hear and what we think--though at least half the people in my town voted for Trump. So it's not like I'm in New Haven or Princeton!

All I can say about why the media didn't ask Obama directly about his mistakes is that he didn't say outrageous things or things that were patently false. He was often pressed about things like Syria (where I think his approach failed) and about the ACA (which I think was seriously flawed but still an improvement over what preceded it). Trump has said so many things over the years that were both false and provocative (and sometimes dangerous): the Muslims in Jersey publicly celebrating the 9/11 attacks, the "Central Park Five" claim, the birther nonsense, the "largest crowd ever at an inauguration," the 3-5 million fraudulent votes, etc. These vary greatly in their seriousness, but the pattern is worrisome. And of course reporters grow skeptical.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

Curious about how you ended up there? Maybe it was near where you attended college? I'm remembering that you were ~ class of 1972 or 1973 at Prep?

Yes, Naples is perfect for me. Great weather, tropical, beaches, lots of Republicans(!), good restaurants, not too far from Miami and all that action, and able to work out (swim, bicycle, and run) every day. Funny line on New Haven and Princeton. When I coached baseball in Hamilton, NJ, we used to love to play the Princeton folks. We got a kick out of the parents.

Find me a front-page headline and corresponding story in the NY Times which takes on Obama for the rollout of the healthcare plan and website, or the Syrian mismanagement, or the Muslim spring fiasco, or Benghazi, or starting his presidential campaign in the home of terrorist Bill Ayers, or the failed Russian reset, etc. If you do find such stories, they likely won't be on the front page, or anywhere near it, or will be well after the fact, after other outlets have initiated coverage.

 

[tulla]

Curious about how you ended up there? Maybe it was near where you attended college? I'm remembering that you were ~ class of 1972 or 1973 at Prep?

Yes, Naples is perfect for me. Great weather, tropical, beaches, lots of Republicans(!), good restaurants, not too far from Miami and all that action, and able to work out (swim, bicycle, and run) every day. Funny line on New Haven and Princeton. When I coached baseball in Hamilton, NJ, we used to love to play the Princeton folks. We got a kick out of the parents.

Find me a front-page headline and corresponding story in the NY Times which takes on Obama for the rollout of the healthcare plan and website, or the Syrian mismanagement, or the Muslim spring fiasco, or Benghazi, or starting his presidential campaign in the home of terrorist Bill Ayers, or the failed Russian reset, etc. If you do find such stories, they likely won't be on the front page, or anywhere near it, or will be well after the fact, after other outlets have initiated coverage.

I graduated from SJP in '71 and got here partly because my wife and I wanted a place where we could both work and since she was in forestry choices were limited. I went to part-time work a little while ago because of some Parkinson's that, fortunately, hasn't progressed much.

I get nearly all of my news from people are now calling the mainstream media and certainly recall reading and hearing a lot about just about all of the items you list, especially the screw-up with the rollout of the ACA. I'm not sure what real options Obama and the U.S. had with Egypt. As for Syria, I think the vote in the British parliament (not to authorize airstrikes) made Obama back off. There was no option that didn't have a downside, but I agree we should have done more both for geopolitical and for humanitarian reasons. Your reference to Bill Ayers rang a vague bell so I did a bit of digging and found this: https://web.archive.org/web/2011052...ker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

That it is from the Washington Post may discredit it entirely in your eyes, but why not give it a look? On the several sites I checked I could find no reference to Obama beginning his campaign in Ayers' house. More evidence, I suppose, that people are coming at issues and questions from very different places. And that's a huge problem.

 

[njfan47]

I graduated from SJP in '71 and got here partly because my wife and I wanted a place where we could both work and since she was in forestry choices were limited. I went to part-time work a little while ago because of some Parkinson's that, fortunately, hasn't progressed much.

I get nearly all of my news from people are now calling the mainstream media and certainly recall reading and hearing a lot about just about all of the items you list, especially the screw-up with the rollout of the ACA. I'm not sure what real options Obama and the U.S. had with Egypt. As for Syria, I think the vote in the British parliament (not to authorize airstrikes) made Obama back off. There was no option that didn't have a downside, but I agree we should have done more both for geopolitical and for humanitarian reasons. Your reference to Bill Ayers rang a vague bell so I did a bit of digging and found this: https://web.archive.org/web/2011052...ker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

That it is from the Washington Post may discredit it entirely in your eyes, but why not give it a look? On the several sites I checked I could find no reference to Obama beginning his campaign in Ayers' house. More evidence, I suppose, that people are coming at issues and questions from very different places. And that's a huge problem.

Sorry to hear about Parkinsons. I wish you the best of luck going forward. I hope there are effective medications on the market.

Maybe true on Ayers, but I suspect Obama was good about sweeping any details under the rug. You may have heard a lot about those stories, but the left media often covers them (and not in-depth) only once they really have to, after alternate media outlets get the story out, helping the public to realize that the story is important. Not sure about you, but I try to watch both Fox and CNN and sometimes CBS TV news, because that was always my favorite growing up (before I woke up!!) and the difference in content and coverage is huge. Remember, Obama had a fund raiser in the home of CBS CEO Les Moonves. That's just one instance, but it's very telling, not the least because Moonves didn't have any concern about what signs this would send.

 

[paul from philly]

I graduated from SJP in '71 and got here partly because my wife and I wanted a place where we could both work and since she was in forestry choices were limited. I went to part-time work a little while ago because of some Parkinson's that, fortunately, hasn't progressed much.

I get nearly all of my news from people are now calling the mainstream media and certainly recall reading and hearing a lot about just about all of the items you list, especially the screw-up with the rollout of the ACA. I'm not sure what real options Obama and the U.S. had with Egypt. As for Syria, I think the vote in the British parliament (not to authorize airstrikes) made Obama back off. There was no option that didn't have a downside, but I agree we should have done more both for geopolitical and for humanitarian reasons. Your reference to Bill Ayers rang a vague bell so I did a bit of digging and found this: https://web.archive.org/web/2011052...ker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

That it is from the Washington Post may discredit it entirely in your eyes, but why not give it a look? On the several sites I checked I could find no reference to Obama beginning his campaign in Ayers' house. More evidence, I suppose, that people are coming at issues and questions from very different places. And that's a huge problem.

From the Prep in '71?? Hayden, Orlando, McCormack, Zeller. Any name ring a bell for you??

 

[tulla]

From the Prep in '71?? Hayden, Orlando, McCormack, Zeller. Any name ring a bell for you??

All ring bells. Most of my friends were in the class of '70: Jablonski, Calhoun, Dougherty, Iannacone, ...