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A few thoughts:Any you guys ever consider or question Tom Brokaw’s claim to the WW-2 generation being the greatest generation? How does the WW2 group stand out above all other American generations; a TALL order. Any thoughts?
Incredibly good summary. You kind of went there and I agree that the Civil War generation was very special. Great story about your grandparents.A few thoughts:
- Brokaw's argument was that this generation of Americans not only helped win WW2 but also came of age during the Depression. So the argument was that they overcame two huge challenges. There's a lot of truth to it, but it's not so simple. Some of the people who fought in WW2 came of age after the worst of the Depression was over. It is also true that this generation benefited greatly from the long post-war expansion of the American economy. Of course they were partly responsible for that expansion, but the U.S. (unlike Britain, for instance) was better positioned than any other country to grow rapidly after the war.
- I have no idea how one could compare "the Greatest Generation" with, say, the generation that fought in the Civil War. I'm not saying one is greater; it's just that Brokaw had living members of the GG all around him and lots of documentation, including film, radio, etc. while only a handful of Civil War vets were alive when Brokaw was born (1940). (Those Matthew Brady photos are amazing, though.)
- Brokaw's primary motivation may have been gratitude and admiration, but writing a book in high praise of a generation of book buyers and people who had lots of books bought for them (think of all the people who must have given his book as a Father's Day, Mother's Day, birthday or Christmas present) was as close to a "can't miss being a bestseller" book as you'll find. No way he was going to title it "Maybe the Greatest Generation."
- The concept of "generation" has its limits. I think of the waves of immigrants who came to this country through much of the 19th century and into the 20th and who lived, in many cases, really difficult lives (in some cases worse than they lives they would have lived had they stayed where they were) mainly in order to give their children a better chance. I think of my grandmother who came at the beginning of the 20th century as an 18 year old responsible for a younger sister who came with her, worked as a maid for sometimes awful employers, saw her first child die at age 8 essentially because of poverty, and did a great job raising six more children despite awful arthritis. Her husband, my grandfather (also an immigrant), worked split shifts (five hours in the morning and five hours late in the day) seven days a week (at one point without a day off for 11 years) driving a trolley--out Walnut, in Chestnut. His motive: he was determined no other child of his would die because of poverty. But there is no single "immigrant generation." Still, millions of immigrants like them played a huge role in building America. Then there is the African-American story ...
Maybe like yours, my parents were part of what Brokaw called the GG, but my father and all his siblings (two of whom landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day) would say their parents had much, much harder--and more accomplished-- lives.Incredibly good summary. You kind of went there and I agree that the Civil War generation was very special. Great story about your grandparents.
Paul, The great majority of Americans who fought in WW2 were born after WW1 had ended. That is, if you were born at the end of WW1 you were 23 when WW2 began--and that of course doesn't include all those born during WW1 and in the years just before it who for all intents and purposes didn't really "live through" WW1. Only a handful of Americans actually fought in both wars.I must humbly disagree with you. It's not so far removed that these citizens lived through TWO world wars, the great depression, and the building of America through business and the "baby boomers". Granted you can say the generation of the Civil War, the Revolutionary War and so forth. But never in the history of the US had so much upheaval happened in such a short period of time. Two world wars! Think of it. And there were other depressions in America's history but only one gets the adjective THE GREAT put in front of it. And for good reason. It lasted for over 10 years. And all the while, immigrants were flooding into this country trying to put together a life for themselves. Then there is the building and the rise of the middle class after the war. It could have gone sideways but it didn't. I like this discussion and banter but I think one thing we can all agree upon is the generations that are alive right now aren't even close to anything great!
Paul, The great majority of Americans who fought in WW2 were born after WW1 had ended. That is, if you were born at the end of WW1 you were 23 when WW2 began--and that of course doesn't include all those born during WW1 and in the years just before it who for all intents and purposes didn't really "live through" WW1. Only a handful of Americans actually fought in both wars.
Paul, I understand your vote. Your father sounds like a very admirable man. But he was a great exception in having been old enough to have had living memories of the WW1 period and having fought in WW2. Most of his peers in WW2 would have been about 15 years younger.
I guess I have two main points. First, we have nothing close to an objective measure to compare generations, so this is all a matter of subjectivity and since many of us, including you and me, on this board are old enough to have very close connections to the generation of people born roughly a century ago we have a clear and understandable bias. Second, the very idea of "the greatest generation" carries the whiff of marketing about it. Compare that generation in the U.S. with the same generation in Britain. Over there both wars were much longer--the American effort on the ground in WW1 lasted about a year--and of course Britain endured horrific bombing and lived with the very real prospect of a German invasion across the narrow English Channel for much of WW2. But maybe because of British understatement or because their history is longer or because of some other reason, I haven't heard of such a phrase being used over there.
You are correct. My Mom grew up in Ireland. Her dad was a horse farmhand who would travel from Ireland to Sacramento, California for 2-3 years at a time, three different times, in order to raise money for the family back in Ireland. In between, they had three sets of three children. She was the second youngest of nine and didn't have it easy, but her parents' lives were much more difficult.Maybe like yours, my parents were part of what Brokaw called the GG, but my father and all his siblings (two of whom landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day) would say their parents had much, much harder--and more accomplished-- lives.