The anti-anti-Trump Movement

[tulla]

Charlie Sykes, a longtime conservative radio host in Wisconsin, wrote a very insightful guest column in Sunday's New York Times. For those who don't think they will develop a rash or blow a gasket by reading something in the Times, here's the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/...e-doing-something-right.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

If you don't want to read it, I'll summarize the main point as follows. Many Trump supporters seem not to care nearly as much--if at all--about traditional conservative values (the separation of powers, "ordered liberty," an emphasis on personal character, etc) as they do about attacking what they perceive as the biased "fake news" media, liberals, and indeed anyone who opposes Trump. Every attack on Trump is met with "what about-ism," i.e. What about what Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton did in ...? The result is that Trump's actions and words escape scrutiny. His supporters are much more focused on seeing Trump's opponents angry and upset than they are on assessing, explaining, or defending Trump's decisions or behavior.

 

[reluctant_to_comment]

I'm sure Charlie Sykes insightful column will be met similarly to how George Will's were, or any lifetime conservative who dare speak out about Trump. What cracks me up is the conservatives who were dead set against him, until he became their guy.

Someone comment this weekend that Trump once said he could shoot a guy on 5th Ave and his supporters wouldn't care. Who knew that guy would be James Comey?

 

[njfan47]

Charlie Sykes, a longtime conservative radio host in Wisconsin, wrote a very insightful guest column in Sunday's New York Times. For those who don't think they will develop a rash or blow a gasket by reading something in the Times, here's the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/...e-doing-something-right.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

If you don't want to read it, I'll summarize the main point as follows. Many Trump supporters seem not to care nearly as much--if at all--about traditional conservative values (the separation of powers, "ordered liberty," an emphasis on personal character, etc) as they do about attacking what they perceive as the biased "fake news" media, liberals, and indeed anyone who opposes Trump. Every attack on Trump is met with "what about-ism," i.e. What about what Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton did in ...? The result is that Trump's actions and words escape scrutiny. His supporters are much more focused on seeing Trump's opponents angry and upset than they are on assessing, explaining, or defending Trump's decisions or behavior.

So, Tulla, what is the worst thing that Trump has done so far? There is nothing wrong with firing Comey; #1, he was Obama's appointee and has a brother who had links to the Clinton Foundation; #2, Maxine Waters, one of the leaders of the Democratic Party, said in January that Comey had no credibility; #3, his July and October 2016 press conferences were a departure from FBI policy; Obama Justice Department officials and congressmen such as Chuck Shumer said so.

So, tell us, what is the worst thing that he has done? The Washington establishment is up in arms because Trump is holding a metaphorical gun to the head of Washington with tax reform, NAFTA reform, and regulation rollbacks and reform. Because of this, they will do whatever they can to discredit him; it's only natural and it's to be expected. To not be aware of it is the "crime". It's establishment vs. non-establishment in a war. Also, the potential to have Obama's entire eight years wiped out is another reason why these folks are losing their minds.

Have never heard of your Wisconsin conservative host, but my suspicion is that he's mainly hung up on style points, as you all seem to be.

Seems that all three of the democrats on this board simply monitor every move and try to provide play by play, although you to a much lesser extent. For example, what is the value of posting that Spicer might be gone as Snowflake did today? Very odd behavior to say the least and a smack of desperation. Nevertheless, it's fun to watch and it's good that these people have this board instead of having to pay for therapy, although that's likely the next step!

 

[Stalker]

Charlie Sykes, a longtime conservative radio host in Wisconsin, wrote a very insightful guest column in Sunday's New York Times. For those who don't think they will develop a rash or blow a gasket by reading something in the Times, here's the link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/...e-doing-something-right.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

If you don't want to read it, I'll summarize the main point as follows. Many Trump supporters seem not to care nearly as much--if at all--about traditional conservative values (the separation of powers, "ordered liberty," an emphasis on personal character, etc) as they do about attacking what they perceive as the biased "fake news" media, liberals, and indeed anyone who opposes Trump. Every attack on Trump is met with "what about-ism," i.e. What about what Obama, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton did in ...? The result is that Trump's actions and words escape scrutiny. His supporters are much more focused on seeing Trump's opponents angry and upset than they are on assessing, explaining, or defending Trump's decisions or behavior.

Tulla.
Ok, I read it and am feeling a mild tingle but no rash yet. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but I’d like to know the parameters, methods, etc used to come up with his information, or was it just an opinion? Quite a statement that “many Trump supporters seem not to care nearly as much—if at all—about traditional conservative value? I thought that’s why most people voted for him, as a foil against Clinton and the Left, supporting Conservative values if not in fact by default. No?

 

[tulla]

Tulla.
Ok, I read it and am feeling a mild tingle but no rash yet. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but I’d like to know the parameters, methods, etc used to come up with his information, or was it just an opinion? Quite a statement that “many Trump supporters seem not to care nearly as much—if at all—about traditional conservative value? I thought that’s why most people voted for him, as a foil against Clinton and the Left, supporting Conservative values if not in fact by default. No?

Thanks for reading it. It's definitely an opinion piece, not a news story. As best I can recall Sykes supported Kasich, though I imagine he'd be comfortable with many of the other Republican candidates, Rubio, Bush, etc. Maybe Cruz too for all I know. In any case he's not "my Wisconsin radio host." Part of our problem now is that there is a kind of thick line being drawn between two sides, which is one of the problems Sykes was writing about.

I'm not sure how much evidence there is that Trump is a conservative, at least in the sense most people who have defined themselves as conservatives have used the term in the last several decades. Will he reduce the debt and show how he'll pay for large federal expenditures? The kind of tax cut broadly outlined in his one-pager needs to be paid for or there should be a credible way outlined for reducing federal expenditures that roughly matches reductions with the lost revenue. (I know NJ will say higher growth rates will produce the higher tax revenues to make up for the revenue lost through lower taxes, but I'm not a worshipper at the altar of David Stockman.) Has he shown respect for the separation of powers and the independence of the judiciary? Has he shown respect for institutions and traditions? (I'm thinking of how he went to the CIA and in front of the Wall of Honour spent much of his time boasting of the size of the crowd at his inauguration? As for foreign policy, conservatives (certainly including Reagan) thought it a responsibility to project American values. I can't figure why Trump seems keen to court people like the guy leading the Phillipines, a killer, and seems extraordinarily reluctant to say a critical word about Erdogan or--dare I say it--Putin. And I see no good reason for his not calling Macron.

NJ asked what I don't like about what Trump has done. Two things for a start:

1) The healthcare bill that passed the House and that Trump supported is a mess. The high risk pools will hurt the most vulnerable. It will reduce support for the bottom 40% to give a big tax break to the top 2%. As far as I understand, it won't even do what many assumed it would do--make it possible/easier to sell insurance across state lines. Of course, the ACA needed significant changes, but what's been passed will only make things worse.

2) Weakening measures to combat climate change is a huge mistake. Some of what Obama tried didn't work, but we can't pretend this isn't going to be an enormous problem. Trump has given no sign that he recognizes it as a serious issue. The regulations about auto emissions were entirely sensible. I'll be heartened if Trump doesn't pull out of the Paris accord.

Got to work this evening so will stop here.

 

[reluctant_to_comment]

Quite a statement that “many Trump supporters seem not to care nearly as much—if at all—about traditional conservative value?
Stalker, I'll give you an example. Trump won the Evangelical voters. Does he represent their values?

Tulla take glance at all of the data being pulled from government websites. Trump must think he can just remove climate change and we'll all forget about it. It's bad for business anyway!