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SJP

tulla

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Oct 27, 2004
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Some post-game thoughts:

SJP's defense tonight was remarkable--obviously very well-prepared and awfully quick--and extra impressive given that Jeremiah Trotter and Rightley didn't play and Leneghan was limited by an injury. Too bad there's not another Johnson in the works.

Burrell looked like Swift on that second touchdown. The three seniors on the O-Line will be hard to replace.

Looked like the smallest SJP crowd of all the Hershey appearances. Lots of reasons--most the same as why attendance is generally down for high school games--but one is certainly the fact that the locations of the previous Prep games don't make it easy for Prep people to get in the habit of going to games, especially ones that are not likely to be mercy-rule games. They should start by giving up on the Widener experiment. Four years and it's pretty obvious it hasn't worked. How about the South Philly supersite? I know other schools use it, but surely there's a way for the Prep to play, say, one or two of their early games against high-profile opponents and their two or three home league games there--or somewhere else much easier to get to by Prep students and families.

Looks like there's a good chance three of the other PCL Red teams (LaSalle, Wood, and Roman) will be a good bit better next year. That'll be good for everyone. Does the Red-Blue alignment (which schools in which) stay the same?

Finally, a great and under-appreciated job by Tim Roken.
 
Some post-game thoughts:

SJP's defense tonight was remarkable--obviously very well-prepared and awfully quick--and extra impressive given that Jeremiah Trotter and Rightley didn't play and Leneghan was limited by an injury. Too bad there's not another Johnson in the works.

Burrell looked like Swift on that second touchdown. The three seniors on the O-Line will be hard to replace.

Looked like the smallest SJP crowd of all the Hershey appearances. Lots of reasons--most the same as why attendance is generally down for high school games--but one is certainly the fact that the locations of the previous Prep games don't make it easy for Prep people to get in the habit of going to games, especially ones that are not likely to be mercy-rule games. They should start by giving up on the Widener experiment. Four years and it's pretty obvious it hasn't worked. How about the South Philly supersite? I know other schools use it, but surely there's a way for the Prep to play, say, one or two of their early games against high-profile opponents and their two or three home league games there--or somewhere else much easier to get to by Prep students and families.

Looks like there's a good chance three of the other PCL Red teams (LaSalle, Wood, and Roman) will be a good bit better next year. That'll be good for everyone. Does the Red-Blue alignment (which schools in which) stay the same?

Finally, a great and under-appreciated job by Tim Roken.
Tulla -

Congrats to the team, staff and families on a great year. It was a fun ride, especially starting the year with two televised games which is a good Segway to the widener site. In addition to myself, it’s made it more prohibitive with timing, traffic, parking, etc. Coach Roken and his staff and players did a great job with injuries and rotations. While they lose a group of very talented players, they remain deep and it showed over the last few games. As far as PCL, we’ll see where it goes. The D was tremendous, well coached and aggressive. Johnson seemed like an on field coach himself and wish we could mold another. I understand the PIAA has a decision on direction they wish to take for the non public schools and the PCL is preparing for a more independent direction, we shall see. It’s worth noting that the PCL did not ask to be in PIAA, they were courted heavily. Anyhow, we’ll see how it plays out. Enjoy your Christmas season.
 
Tulla -

Congrats to the team, staff and families on a great year. It was a fun ride, especially starting the year with two televised games which is a good Segway to the widener site. In addition to myself, it’s made it more prohibitive with timing, traffic, parking, etc. Coach Roken and his staff and players did a great job with injuries and rotations. While they lose a group of very talented players, they remain deep and it showed over the last few games. As far as PCL, we’ll see where it goes. The D was tremendous, well coached and aggressive. Johnson seemed like an on field coach himself and wish we could mold another. I understand the PIAA has a decision on direction they wish to take for the non public schools and the PCL is preparing for a more independent direction, we shall see. It’s worth noting that the PCL did not ask to be in PIAA, they were courted heavily. Anyhow, we’ll see how it plays out. Enjoy your Christmas season.
The Johnson brothers were certainly a force to be reckoned with over the years and smart cookies to boot!
 
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roxychknpoxy. You are misinformed. The PCL begged to be in the PIAA.
 
CATHOLIC LEAGUE WILL JOIN PUB IN DISTRICT 12 COMPETITION IN '08
AND, SO, WE have come full circle.
Almost 27 years after thumbing its nose at the Public League by refusing to allow its girls' champions to participate in City Title events, thus killing the tradition-steeped boys' series that lasted four-plus decades and over time encompassed all sports, the Catholic League has come crawling back, making all nice.
Assuming no snags with approvals expected to be of the rubber-stamp variety, and also assuming that fully privates La Salle and St.
Joseph's Prep remain in the fold, District 12 of the PIAA will include the Pub and Cath for the 2008-09 school year.
Those CL folks know a patsy when they see one.
It was the Pub, despite great internal uproar that to a large degree remains in place, that went to all the trouble of altering its entire existence to join the PIAA in September 2004 (after 1 year as a paper-only member).
And now, incredibly, it's the Cath that will benefit, after needing only to step lightly around assorted rubble.
Has anyone been paying attention? Has anyone noticed that since becoming eligible to compete for state titles, PL reps in team sports aside from basketball (boys' version only) have become almost completely accustomed to losing and even getting trounced?
Yes, CL officials did. Knowing their sports programs are stronger almost across the board, they have plotted to enter the PIAA through District 12 even though, a generation ago, they wanted to create as much distance as possible between their league and that league.
Can't you just hear what went on in the recent Archdiocese-sponsored committee meetings?
"The Pub is weaker than ever. All those charter and special schools. The talent is so diluted. If we go into District 1, we'll have to fight against so many quality schools."
"Yeah, let's talk District 12 into taking us. We'll be stronger pretty much across the board. Maybe they'll even take our suburban schools."
"Man, are they that naïve? Think they'll do that? That'd be heaven."
All along, the officers in the PL's sports administration group, and their bosses, have insisted the go-PIAA move made sense because benefits can be derived simply from competing. And from helping their athletes realize there's a big, wide state out there.
Agreed. Competition does make the world go 'round. And a kid from North Philly does need to realize "suburbs" does not mean West Philly.
It's just that now there's a legitimate fear: How many Pub teams will actually storm forward out of District 12 and get to experience the assorted niceties?
Again and again recently, Pub coaches and athletic directors have asked me, "Why are we committing suicide?"
So as yesterday's lengthy news conference, held in the School District Administration Building, wound down, that question was posed to the top two officers in PL sports administration, Marjorie Wuestner and Robert Coleman (he doubles as the District 12 chairman).
"I don't believe that. I truly don't believe that," Wuestner said. "Competition is great."
Coleman then began talking about the poor attendance by localites at the recent Frankford-Liberty Class AAAA state playoff and how much better a City Title showdown would fare at the gate, keeping revenues in the city.
He was sounding like a guy who now believes a City Title is more important than a state championship.
"He's not saying that," Wuestner quickly chimed in. "He's saying it's an important game."
Wuestner then added PL sports will be lifted across the board because the middle-school programs are improving. She said those programs are not in financial danger "because we won't allow that to happen."
Here's something else the Pub should not tolerate: the stealing of its athletes.
When an athlete transfers to a new school, unless he has been tossed for grades or behavior, his old and new principal must sign papers contending the move was not made for athletic purposes.
How many of you are laughing? Sure, non-athletes transfer all the time from Pub to Cath schools in 10th, 11th or even 12th grade (wink, wink).
Once CL members become part of the District 12 committee, and assuming the PL folks show spine, those eligibility hearings could make for a great reality show.
(Meanwhile, the Pub will need to do a much better job of making sure its own house is in order when it comes to transfer paperwork. It now enjoys living in a vacuum. Not so when it joins with the CL. In Pub football and basketball, I'm guessing there are at least 100 transfers in action this year. A PIAA bigwig could have all kinds of fun trying to determine how many times people bothered with the
paperwork. Or even know they're supposed to do it.)
Bishop Joseph McFadden, who oversees education in the Archdiocese (and is a longtime proponent of getting the CL into the PIAA), said "the moment is now" when asked to describe why this move finally took place. He added, "We're looking to an exciting and enriching future."
Wuestner said to the audience, "We will not shy away in any way. Raise the bar, and get better."
On overall matters, Brad Cashman, PIAA executive director, said he envisions the PIAA adding another big-school classification for football playoffs and perhaps more all-sports, state-tournament entrants from District 12 because of its increased size; he can't picture a separation of public and non-public schools for state tourney purposes; CL schools, like those in the PL, will be unable to play against fifth-year athletes (that could force the Inter-Ac's join-the-PIAA hand); high schools are allowed to "athletically recruit" only at predetermined feeder schools; and principals are solely responsible for making sure all athletes are eligible and have not received athletic scholarships.
McFadden insisted CL personnel are prohibited from recruiting athletes and those who do so "put their jobs on the line." He added, "Money is not to be given to come play athletics."
Guffaw time again. Some athletes pay little or nothing. Their tuition is covered by "sponsors." Some folks who donate money for memorial scholarships stipulate that the money can go, for instance, only to a football player.
On a broader scale, parents of eighth-graders have become adept at pitting one school against another. "Yo, they're giving us $1,000 off the tuition. Make it $1,500 and I'll go to your place."
McFadden said he was not in favor of open enrollment, which went into full effect for the 1993-94 school year and helped lead to this insanity. "But that's where we are," he said. "There's no going back on that."
How this move will affect individual CL sports is murky. In football, a playoff round and occasional Thanksgiving meetings might have to go. In basketball, the regular season will end much earlier and participation for top-line teams in the prestigious Alhambra tournament
will terminate. Generally, game limits in all sports will be lower.
So much to do. About 20 months to work with.
Pub people? They can hope that, if this was a suicide, it was only a take-pills version. And that the stomach-pumping will be successful.
 
roxychknpoxy. You are misinformed. The PCL begged to be in the PIAA.
Shoe - if the PCL “begged”, then why did the PIAA allow them to preserve tradition and championships in their own leagues? Huh?? Would the PIAA be calling the shots?? No, the PCL still generally does it’s thing and will continue to do so, possibly modified, but adaptable none the less. Prep has had a top notch out of league schedule for 25 years now. Coincidentally, this all started in 2003 when NP and Prep were undefeated and pressure mounted through the PIAA to establish a true champion in each sport. My info came through the then head AD of PCL. No begging needed.
 
Why would they be forced to change their traditions. Every league & school in the state has traditions & does their thing that the state does not interfere with . Thanksgiving day games, league championships and many more. Where did the pressure come from? State representatives who forced the PIAA to take Philly schools. Most schools & AD in this state have nothing but complaints when it comes to Philly schools. Your info comes from low level.
 
Why would they be forced to change their traditions. Every league & school in the state has traditions & does their thing that the state does not interfere with . Thanksgiving day games, league championships and many more. Where did the pressure come from? State representatives who forced the PIAA to take Philly schools. Most schools & AD in this state have nothing but complaints when it comes to Philly schools. Your info comes from low level.
It’s apparent your comment is hear say and your explanation that includes thanksgiving games is ridiculous. Let Easton and Phillipsburg play, it doesn’t matter, but to insinuate it was intentionally political tells me you fall on the side of conspiracy theory most times.
 
Joe McFadden slow played this and got exactly what he wanted. Let’s be honest the PIAA folks got hoodwinked because of its own arrogance at the time. Got tired of hearing about PCL. Those of us involved knew that it was a Pandora’s box but that if talent aggregated out of our league it would be very powerful. Reality is if Joe McFadden doesn’t make this maneuver into PIAA all schools probably in way worse shape enrollment wise. Man was very smart. Used an rancor statewide over PCL not in to boost these schools for 15 more years. Unfortunately gig about up. Vision been recognized.
 
Joe McFadden slow played this and got exactly what he wanted. Let’s be honest the PIAA folks got hoodwinked because of its own arrogance at the time. Got tired of hearing about PCL. Those of us involved knew that it was a Pandora’s box but that if talent aggregated out of our league it would be very powerful. Reality is if Joe McFadden doesn’t make this maneuver into PIAA all schools probably in way worse shape enrollment wise. Man was very smart. Used an rancor statewide over PCL not in to boost these schools for 15 more years. Unfortunately gig about up. Vision been recognized.
It seems that at least for football, it's really just about SJP. Yes, Wood, won again this year, but few think they're at a different level from several other 5A teams in PA, and they don't seem to draw nearly the consternation SJP does. As for the Prep, it's very possible that after next year they will have a significant drop off. You can't lose McCord, Trotter, Cooper, Hagens, Talley, etc. all at once and not feel it, and it seems the freshman and sophomore classes don't have the same talent level as the current junior and senior classes. Maybe next year's freshman class will be great and the ride will continue, but that's hardly a sure thing.

It certainly seems that 6A public school football is significantly weaker than it was just a few years ago., especially in D1 and D11. The Parkland teams of '13, '14, and '15 were a whole lot better than the last three D11 champions--and it can't be because the Prep is taking players from the Lehigh Valley. And can the decline at North Penn, Neshaminy, etc. really be attributed mainly to kids in those districts going to private schools?
 
Tulla, you state that football is weaker in D1 & D11 and I would agree but i think that is through out the state. The NYT in their Sunday paper over the last 4 weeks has been writing about the decline of HS football around the country. This weeks article focused on an Ohio hs team. The article states participation rate nationwide has dropped 10% since 2009,in Ohio it has dropped 27%. I quote another stat in the article and I quote, "Nationally, children who are white now account for 56% of high school football players, compared with 76% in 2006", this might effect D1,D11 schools.

On another note, SJP lost to 2 out of state private schools and Wood got smoked 38-9 by a private school from NJ who had 27 players on its roster. Why? they got out recruited. Recruiting counts and private schools have an advantage.
 
Tulla, you state that football is weaker in D1 & D11 and I would agree but i think that is through out the state. The NYT in their Sunday paper over the last 4 weeks has been writing about the decline of HS football around the country. This weeks article focused on an Ohio hs team. The article states participation rate nationwide has dropped 10% since 2009,in Ohio it has dropped 27%. I quote another stat in the article and I quote, "Nationally, children who are white now account for 56% of high school football players, compared with 76% in 2006", this might effect D1,D11 schools.

On another note, SJP lost to 2 out of state private schools and Wood got smoked 38-9 by a private school from NJ who had 27 players on its roster. Why? they got out recruited. Recruiting counts and private schools have an advantage.
I've been noticing the decline in the participation rate, especially among white kids, myself. It probably affects nearly every school, including SJP.

By the way, one of the two teams the Prep lost to this year, Marietta, is a public school. I get your general point that not having boundaries is a real advantage, but I don't think it's the only reason the top 25 lists have a very disproportionately high number of Catholic schools.
 
It seems that at least for football, it's really just about SJP. Yes, Wood, won again this year, but few think they're at a different level from several other 5A teams in PA, and they don't seem to draw nearly the consternation SJP does. As for the Prep, it's very possible that after next year they will have a significant drop off. You can't lose McCord, Trotter, Cooper, Hagens, Talley, etc. all at once and not feel it, and it seems the freshman and sophomore classes don't have the same talent level as the current junior and senior classes. Maybe next year's freshman class will be great and the ride will continue, but that's hardly a sure thing.

It certainly seems that 6A public school football is significantly weaker than it was just a few years ago., especially in D1 and D11. The Parkland teams of '13, '14, and '15 were a whole lot better than the last three D11 champions--and it can't be because the Prep is taking players from the Lehigh Valley. And can the decline at North Penn, Neshaminy, etc. really be attributed mainly to kids in those districts going to private schools?
I don't know tulla. They keep pulling players out of their deep hat like Malik Cooper it probably won't matter who graduates. About the SJP dominating CD; I don't believe that's a good message going across the state that a good team was woefully out manned, dominated in all 3 phases....by a private school, not in todays climate.
 
I don't know tulla. They keep pulling players out of their deep hat like Malik Cooper it probably won't matter who graduates. About the SJP dominating CD; I don't believe that's a good message going across the state that a good team was woefully out manned, dominated in all 3 phases....by a private school, not in todays climate.

While missing two national top 100 junior, one at the most important position on both sides of the ball. Can you think of any other team that could do that?

It’d be like ECP in 2000 missing Ed Hinkel and Charles Rush and still winning the state final by 3 touchdowns.
 
I don't know tulla. They keep pulling players out of their deep hat like Malik Cooper it probably won't matter who graduates. About the SJP dominating CD; I don't believe that's a good message going across the state that a good team was woefully out manned, dominated in all 3 phases....by a private school, not in todays climate.
Stalker, I don't want to judge CD based on what I saw Saturday night. Maybe it was their worst game of the season. What I'm sure of is that CD Saturday night played way below the level Neshaminy in 2013, Parkland and P-R in 2014, North Penn in 2016, and Coatesville--and of course P-R --in 2017 played when they went up against SJP. Is the quality of public league teams in 5A and 6A going down across the state? If it is, it seems a stretch to blame it all on SJP.
 
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I think a lot of teams lose to teams like SJP getting off the bus.

Here in the WPIAL, there are only 3 teams in 6A - PCC, NA, and P-R that have a shot to beat teams like SJP. That's part of the reason the brackets need to be fixed. PCC-SJP this year would have been an instant classic. Like the '14 P-R game. Best against the best.
 
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Stalker, I don't want to judge CD based on what I saw Saturday night. Maybe it was their worst game of the season. What I'm sure of is that CD Saturday night played way below the level Neshaminy in 2013, Parkland and P-R in 2014, North Penn in 2016, and Coatesville--and of course P-R --in 2017 played when they went up against SJP. Is the quality of public league teams in 5A and 6A going down across the state? If it is, it seems a stretch to blame it all on SJP.
All I'm saying is it looks bad to people who are looking for....hoping for ammunition to blast privates. It wasn't a statement on CD's or SJP's ability or lack thereof. I'm talking about a much larger issue. Game's go this way or that based on a multitude of reasons. The point I was trying to make is when a blue blood, be it NA, Pine, CD, Harrisburg, Parkland get destroyed by a private it plays into "their" hand........the haters hand, reinforced by another private school, Pitt CC's competitive game vs SJP.
 
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All I'm saying is it looks bad to people who are looking for....hoping for ammunition to blast privates. It wasn't a statement on CD's or SJP's ability or lack thereof. I'm talking about a much larger issue. Game's go this way or that based on a multitude of reasons. The point I was trying to make is when a blue blood, be it NA, Pine, CD, Harrisburg, Parkland get destroyed by a private it plays into "their" hand........the haters hand, reinforced by another private school, Pitt CC's competitive game vs SJP.
I see what you mean. It's interesting that there's far less comment about Wood. Maybe it's partly because they don't have any players who live in Jersey. That the Prep does really seems to annoy some. By the way, can you please explain what the meaning of "a blue blood"? I think, maybe wrongly, of that expression as referring to people who come from socially prominent, often snobby, backgrounds.
 
Yes that's right tulla, broadly used as elite and upper crust. I almost never use the term Blue Bloods but have seen it used in that contest. Smack me if I start using too many baseball terms although they are a good fit....baseball being so deeply embedded in our consciousness.

Who know why Wood doesn't catch as much flack. Could be many draw a parallel between 6A and the old 4A classification when it was the largest class, seeing anything below 6A as "the rest." 6A does often gets top billing.

In D3 (Harrisburg area) this (SJP dominance) is not the constant theme it is here, or at least on this board. Guys talk, speculating on next year's forecasts but usually in a positive sense in spite of most of us feeling it will likely be St. Joe's, again. It's not a "give up" as many thought both Pitt CC and CD could beat them or Wilson and especially Manheim Township. I think it's a realistic appraisal of the reality of that program, that they are dominant and will continue to be dominant into the foreseeable future.
 
Yes that's right tulla, broadly used as elite and upper crust. I almost never use the term Blue Bloods but have seen it used in that contest. Smack me if I start using too many baseball terms although they are a good fit....baseball being so deeply embedded in our consciousness.

Who know why Wood doesn't catch as much flack. Could be many draw a parallel between 6A and the old 4A classification when it was the largest class, seeing anything below 6A as "the rest." 6A does often gets top billing.

In D3 (Harrisburg area) this (SJP dominance) is not the constant theme it is here, or at least on this board. Guys talk, speculating on next year's forecasts but usually in a positive sense in spite of most of us feeling it will likely be St. Joe's, again. It's not a "give up" as many thought both Pitt CC and CD could beat them or Wilson and especially Manheim Township. I think it's a realistic appraisal of the reality of that program, that they are dominant and will continue to be dominant into the foreseeable future.
 
By the way, can you please explain what the meaning of "a blue blood"? I think, maybe wrongly, of that expression as referring to people who come from socially prominent, often snobby, backgrounds.

I usually think of "blue bloods" in sports to be the historically premier programs, the sport's "royalty" so to speak. I usually hear/think of it in college football and basketball. College football blue-bloods would be Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, etc.
 
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I see what you mean. It's interesting that there's far less comment about Wood. Maybe it's partly because they don't have any players who live in Jersey. That the Prep does really seems to annoy some. By the way, can you please explain what the meaning of "a blue blood"? I think, maybe wrongly, of that expression as referring to people who come from socially prominent, often snobby, backgrounds.
I see what you mean. It's interesting that there's far less comment about Wood. Maybe it's partly because they don't have any players who live in Jersey. That the Prep does really seems to annoy some. By the way, can you please explain what the meaning of "a blue blood"? I think, maybe wrongly, of that expression as referring to people who come from socially prominent, often snobby, backgrounds.

I'm not sure what some of the 'labels' being thrown around mean. I guess people who want/expect fair competition as opposed to schools not following the rules are now labeled "haters". If so, I'm in that group.
As Tulla explained before, SJP is unique because they don't have feeder schools and have to go out and recruit student athletes to survive/prosper. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled by the PIAA.
Wood, on the other hand, isn't in the same situation, they just cheat in multiple sports and the PIAA just stands by.
Tulla and Stalker, let's not kid ourselves that next year will be the same result as this year.
I'll take SJP and you can have the rest of the state. We on?
 
I'm not sure what some of the 'labels' being thrown around mean. I guess people who want/expect fair competition as opposed to schools not following the rules are now labeled "haters". If so, I'm in that group.
As Tulla explained before, SJP is unique because they don't have feeder schools and have to go out and recruit student athletes to survive/prosper. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled by the PIAA.
Wood, on the other hand, isn't in the same situation, they just cheat in multiple sports and the PIAA just stands by.
Tulla and Stalker, let's not kid ourselves that next year will be the same result as this year.
I'll take SJP and you can have the rest of the state. We on?
The Prep could well be better next year than this year, but there are some big shoes to fill on both the OL and the DL. Beyond next year the talent level will almost certainly be lower. I don't think there's ever been a class at SJP where there are so many very talented players: McCord, Harrison, Hagans, Trotter, and Cooper--then throw in Talley, Nesbitt, House, Atkins, Fisher, Watson and Yagodich (was he hurt?) and you have quite the crew. After that, from all I've heard, there will be a real drop off. But the overall environment is changing year by year, so who knows?
 
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I'm not sure what some of the 'labels' being thrown around mean. I guess people who want/expect fair competition as opposed to schools not following the rules are now labeled "haters". If so, I'm in that group.
As Tulla explained before, SJP is unique because they don't have feeder schools and have to go out and recruit student athletes to survive/prosper. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled by the PIAA.
Wood, on the other hand, isn't in the same situation, they just cheat in multiple sports and the PIAA just stands by.
Tulla and Stalker, let's not kid ourselves that next year will be the same result as this year.
I'll take SJP and you can have the rest of the state. We on?
Absolutely on. That's what I alluded to or meant in previous post. But I can't be the only person that thinks it's disappointing that it really isn't a surprise from year to year. Got bodies back next year plus, with talent like Malik Cooper (et al?) in the wings, it's like they have interchangeable parts! Incredible. You know my focus this year has been "Mid State" (D3, 4, 5, 6, 9) but LaSalle should be improved.
 
Hearing Wood is going to be 6A. Not sure they are on same level as SJP or LaSalle, but they have a lot back.
 
the big difference is one is a prep school with serious academic standards. Wood doesn’t have those academic standards, right? If you can tell me that academic standards are not being lowered then who cares. Both schools and others openly recruit. If I was a prep graduate that hit the high standards and now there’s lowering standards to win championships I would not be happy.
 
I'm not sure what some of the 'labels' being thrown around mean. I guess people who want/expect fair competition as opposed to schools not following the rules are now labeled "haters". If so, I'm in that group.
As Tulla explained before, SJP is unique because they don't have feeder schools and have to go out and recruit student athletes to survive/prosper. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled by the PIAA.
Wood, on the other hand, isn't in the same situation, they just cheat in multiple sports and the PIAA just stands by.
Tulla and Stalker, let's not kid ourselves that next year will be the same result as this year.
I'll take SJP and you can have the rest of the state. We on?
Im not sure that Wood is cheating. They do recuit, but they are allowed. The ADOP has open enrollment. I will say that I am not a fan of they way Wood has recuited players in the past, I have heard those days are over.
 
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From what i have heard inside the PCL Wood is a good soldier. Move up to 6A is interesting. I'd say that is a result of other schools in PCL either going up or dropping down to 5A. So if SJP is as much of a "given" as ever, that makes the Wood/Lasalle/Roman games as much of a war as they have had in years. I'm sure avoiding SJP in that first playoff game would be the goal for all of them. So now that I think about it, Wood moving to 6A means there is probably something in the wind that would change the dynamics of the playoffs. You are going to have two of the better teams around have their seasons done early in this dynamic.
 
From what i have heard inside the PCL Wood is a good soldier. Move up to 6A is interesting. I'd say that is a result of other schools in PCL either going up or dropping down to 5A. So if SJP is as much of a "given" as ever, that makes the Wood/Lasalle/Roman games as much of a war as they have had in years. I'm sure avoiding SJP in that first playoff game would be the goal for all of them. So now that I think about it, Wood moving to 6A means there is probably something in the wind that would change the dynamics of the playoffs. You are going to have two of the better teams around have their seasons done early in this dynamic.
Unfortunately early elimination happens in a number of brackets/districts throughout the classifications when that district is strong. Happened in D3 this year with Wilson, Manheim Township, Harrisburg and CD all strong and potentially (actually minus CD) eliminating each other....and in D1 when they are strong.
I'd like seeing a real playoff of inter districts instead of the boring district playoff. I realize it won't happen, but could perhaps rekindle interest that is now at a all time low per the possibility of new matchups. 6A egs....SJP vs State College, Pitt CC vs Freedom, Coatesville vs Parkland, Manheim Township vs LaSalle, Wilson vs North Allegheny, Harrisburg vs Garnet Valley, Pine Richland vs Downingtown West. Got carried away. It's boring seeing rematches of regular season games that happens more often with the absurd 6 classification structure (too few teams) that encourages and perpetuates this.
 
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Oh the times they are a changing. Start following the soccer forums. Football is losing its base. Participation is way way down. It used to be that every grade school had its own team. Then they started to merge a few schools together to be able to field a team. Now some just don't bother to get involved. You can even tell from this site. The participation is way down. With a smaller pool of talent, the real recruiting will begin!!
 
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I'm not sure what some of the 'labels' being thrown around mean. I guess people who want/expect fair competition as opposed to schools not following the rules are now labeled "haters". If so, I'm in that group.
As Tulla explained before, SJP is unique because they don't have feeder schools and have to go out and recruit student athletes to survive/prosper. I'm not sure how that should be reconciled by the PIAA.
Wood, on the other hand, isn't in the same situation, they just cheat in multiple sports and the PIAA just stands by.
Tulla and Stalker, let's not kid ourselves that next year will be the same result as this year.
I'll take SJP and you can have the rest of the state. We on?


They have to recruit EVERY kid that goes there. Not just student athletes. They don't get kids that just automatically go there for anything.
 
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Oh the times they are a changing. Start following the soccer forums. Football is losing its base. Participation is way way down. It used to be that every grade school had its own team. Then they started to merge a few schools together to be able to field a team. Now some just don't bother to get involved. You can even tell from this site. The participation is way down. With a smaller pool of talent, the real recruiting will begin!!
Amen Paul. I almost quit the board last year til rekindling the writing/reporting interest with the Mid State Rankings and "by the numbers" review. As Dylan said....the times they are a changing.
 
Oh the times they are a changing. Start following the soccer forums. Football is losing its base. Participation is way way down. It used to be that every grade school had its own team. Then they started to merge a few schools together to be able to field a team. Now some just don't bother to get involved. You can even tell from this site. The participation is way down. With a smaller pool of talent, the real recruiting will begin!!
Paul, We're on the same page. I have a feeling that some think that if the non-boundary schools are put into a separate category or simply leave the PIAA (or if SJP suddenly decides to drop football), it'll be pre-2013 or pre-2009 all over again. But as you suggest, the landscape has changed quite a bit for reasons that have nothing to do with SJP and the mix of boundary and non-boundary schools in the same category. In fact, I'd say that one reason SJP has been so strong is that many players--or their families--have thought their local schools (whether Catholic or public) have quite weak programs that won't provide the preparation or the exposure they want. They may not be entirely right about that, but there it is.
 
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Im not sure that Wood is cheating. They do recuit, but they are allowed. The ADOP has open enrollment. I will say that I am not a fan of they way Wood has recuited players in the past, I have heard those days are over.

Wood has been in existence for 50+ years. Until about 10 - 12 years ago, they played with kids from their traditional feeder schools and were mediocre. They then decided to specifically recruit football players from anywhere in Bucks County, Northeast Philly, West Oak Lane, Mount Airy, etc. As if that wasn't enough, they decided to start poaching players already on other high school teams. I guess all
these things aren't considered cheating....
Things worked so well,they decided to do it in basketball. They were always poor in hoops also but have now won one state title and will probably win another one this year. And yet someone posted they are considered a good soldier in the PCL.

I guess there is a disconnect somewhere...
 
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Wood has been in existence for 50+ years. Until about 10 - 12 years ago, they played with kids from their traditional feeder schools and were mediocre. They then decided to specifically recruit football players from anywhere in Bucks County, Northeast Philly, West Oak Lane, Mount Airy, etc. As if that wasn't enough, they decided to start poaching players already on other high school teams. I guess all
these things aren't considered cheating....
Things worked so well,they decided to do it in basketball. They were always poor in hoops also but have now won one state title and will probably win another one this year. And yet someone posted they are considered a good soldier in the PCL.

I guess there is a disconnect somewhere...
I think that at least one of the things the poster had in mind was that Wood is no longer looking for football transfers after grade 9--or so I hear.
 
Paul, We're on the same page. I have a feeling that some think that if the non-boundary schools are put into a separate category or simply leave the PIAA (or if SJP suddenly decides to drop football), it'll be pre-2013 or pre-2009 all over again. But as you suggest, the landscape has changed quite a bit for reasons that have nothing to do with SJP and the mix of boundary and non-boundary schools in the same category. In fact, I'd say that one reason SJP has been so strong is that many players--or their families--have thought their local schools (whether Catholic or public) have quite weak programs that won't provide the preparation or the exposure they want. They may not be entirely right about that, but there it is.
So true and if you the parent know or think your child won't be coached right that also could be a factor.
 
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PCL teams have to recruit 8th graders. If they don't recruit they won't have teams, and pretty soon they wouldn't have schools. As for Jhoops comment on Wood recruiting in the city now - there's a septa bus that drops them off right at the school, I've been told that almost all of Wood's kids from the city live along that bus line.
 
I hope they keep the PA State championship as is...
The better the competition the better for life lessons learned. F*ck more than one champ per class, do not split it up between pubs, privates! Winning recruits on its own, great coaches win and parents want great coaching too. I did not like the bracket change two years ago but it is what it is. I have lived and coached on both sides of the state. Had sons who got beat by Wood, Pgh CC, & SJP. Nobody cares work harder.
 
I hope they keep the PA State championship as is...
The better the competition the better for life lessons learned. F*ck more than one champ per class, do not split it up between pubs, privates! Winning recruits on its own, great coaches win and parents want great coaching too. I did not like the bracket change two years ago but it is what it is. I have lived and coached on both sides of the state. Had sons who got beat by Wood, Pgh CC, & SJP. Nobody cares work harder.
Soup13..that is the bottom line. Thank You!
 
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