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PIAA Preview Show on PCN

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Gang $$ Green

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Dec 16, 2004
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Wanted to comment and say that the preview show last night was very good. Two hours of hs football. Kevin Cooney did a bang up job representing SEPA. One thing I noticed. On multiple occasions Kevin talked about the Catholic League and the private school advantage and the Allentown and Pittsburgh guys really dismissed it as a non factor. There were even visable facial expressions and the host talking about how close AAAA was to be four public schools in semis. I found that sentiment very interesting. Clearly at state level with these guys there isn't a huge clamoring that this in now completely unfair.

As a PCL guy I do wonder about a tipping point as I think Kevin was alluding to last night. I think we are close to it at District 1 level but Parkland-Prep was extremely competitive and Coatesville took it to LaSalle in '12. I'm in the camp that it's a ridiculous advantage that is especially exasperated at levels lower than AAAA. I thought this ten years ago when everyone thought I was crazy to think that this could get out of control on a competitive basis in a hurry. Doesn't mean a public school can't win but at AAAA and AAA level you can firmly say that in most years it's going to take a special public school team to beat them. Maybe Pine Richland and CV are those type of teams.

My biases aside let's go Dunmore, Wood and Prep to represent the east. Got some cases of Victory Dirt Wolf vs some Penn Pilsner riding on this with my Pittsburgh breathern. Single A is all west game so that case is already lost.

Also best of luck to new O'Hara coach B.J. Hogan who is on the sideline tonight with the Moccs of Chattanoga against New Hampshire at 8 on ESPN2. Here's hoping for some great football and congratulations to all the programs that made it to Hershey.
 
Pretty good show I thought. To spend 30 minutes on each game was great for the HS football junkie. I was reading this preview from the Post Gazette and it mentions how Prep has players from 3 states and DiNucci even alluded to it at the end.

Prep-PR Preview
 
Read that too. Thought it was kind of a cheap shot but hey he's a kid. Considering where Prep is situated, a 20 mile radius is a 20 mile radius. If McDevitt was 40 miles south of Harrisburg I'm sure they would have some kids from Maryland, big deal.
 
I wonder how many kids on Pine Richland's team if from Ohio or West Virginia since they are so close to the school my guess zero, and since when is the truth a cheap shot

This post was edited on 12/12 10:39 AM by elcato
 
Go East!!! Beat West!!


To all the teams from the East -- get 'em!!

As an aside (and I didn't watch the show last night so I assume he was hosting), Mike Zambelli was the great fullback for the Louis Dieruff Huskies in the early '70s. And back when the "Big Seven" league still existed -- and the 'Skins were playing Dieruff every year as both schools were members -- the 1971 game with Dieruff was all about stopping one guy -- Michael Zambelli.

When it was their turn to host those games were also played up at what is now called J. Birney Crum Stadium (back then it was still "Allentown High School Stadium" or "Allentown Stadium" as it had been known since it was opened around 1950 I believe). We played four games up there when I was at Neshaminy (two in '69 and then two in '71 against Dieruff and William Allen with two each) and we used to think that was such a cool place to play (still grass and with that crazy "one-side" only seating which was the set-up then).

Anyway, didn't mean to get off on a tangent so I'll say it again:

Go East; beat West!!
 
I think the whole world including the small African village of Zamunda knows private schools have no boundaries. I was stating that he didn't have to sensationalize it by naming other states. Since when is Delaware and NJ the holy grail of football players? Are all out of state players all-American nominees? Does DuPont helicopter the kid into Philly every day? It's just all over blown as far as I'm concerned. Like I said, 20 miles is 20 miles.
 
Regardless of the Catholic/private school thing district one problem is the demise of good football. Parkland was competitive with the prep & so would Easton & Whitehall. Just because District one decided to dummy down football doesn't mean others have to also.
 
And recruiting is recruiting

This post was edited on 12/12 11:47 AM by elcato
 
Hey, PR played PCC this year. Good for them, are they still complaining after beating them twice?
 
I am not sure Pitt CC had players from 3 states. But you are right PR beat Pitt CC twice
 
All Catholic schools have to recruit. By this I mean that they have to market themselves and demonstrate the incremental value that justifies spending thousands of dollars a year vs. a free public school. Parents can make this decision based on many factors only one of which is athletic opportunity. If the school doesn't successfully recruit, they eventually have to close their doors. If the school is successful in 'recruiting' a kid who happens to be good football player and the kids parents are willing to shell out the money, more power to them and to the school. Where the slope gets slippery ts where schools are offering scholarships or stipends. Are all kids applying for such aid being treated the same or is preference being given to kids who are great athletes? Are wealth alumni covering the costs for a kid who happens to be a great quarterback? To the extent that these things go on, I think this creates an unfair advantage.
 
Why are you so hung up on the state thing? Erie Cath. Prep over the years had players from 3 states and I can't ever remember people complaining. How come when the North Allegheny QB moved from Texas a few years ago he didn't attend 0-10 Fox Chappell or some other lesser program? Funny how his family decided to move down the street from NA, what a coincidence, hahaha.
 
Originally posted by 00shoe:
Regardless of the Catholic/private school thing district one problem is the demise of good football. Parkland was competitive with the prep & so would Easton & Whitehall. Just because District one decided to dummy down football doesn't mean others have to also.
Click to expand...
Dummy down is a good point.

At the end of the day, when you are playing in a big game if you have 4+ turnovers you are getting blown out. Ask Pennsbery, LaSalle or Ridley. Have some key injuries and close games turn. Was the Prep really only 3 points better than Frankford? Lasalle with Coleman in 2012 and 2013. Any team can have a ton of transfers come in and make an OK team great. 8 of them at North Allegheny during their run, they are gone and so is NA.

The 3 state thing is a nice sound bite but means little. Good AAAA match up. Prep is missing the best player in the state and he is primarily a DB. PR throws. Should be a great game.
 
16th, it was only the WPIAL fans complaining about ECP in the late 90's
smile.r191677.gif
 
You make zero sense and your argument is flawed especially the North Allegheny kid, he moved with his dad who had a job with Pitt or the Steelers but moved in state did not live out of state. I laugh at you
 
You're a moron. I said they moved to PItt and had any choice of schools to attend and they picked NA. I know he didn't still live in Texas.
 
Very well put, Jimbo. I agree with you that the distinction lies in the financial aid vs. "booster" scenarios.
 
You are a moron you are comparing apples and oranges your argument has zero merit tool box the kids who are at SJP still live in NJ ahh now you see wow must be a special on retards today

This post was edited on 12/12 1:15 PM by elcato
 
I don't think the kid took a cheap shot at all. The three state thing is the angle they are playing up but fundamentally he is right. It's a community public school versus a school with no boundaries. The three state thing makes zero difference in my mind. If the PIAA came out and said a member school could not have out of state residents that wouldn't work for the overall student body at Prep because jersey kids have always been part of the school.

However if that was the rule guess what they would adjust and find more PA kids. They would still be the same team. The coach is on to something. PCC is not close to the same animal as Prep/LaSalle/Wood. Two reasons. The traditional parochial system in Phila was HUGE in number compared to the Pittsburgh system in the recent past. Way more people in Phila have a parochial school background that will entertain paying for parochial high school than Pittsburgh or Allentown or Harrisburg. Both by number and per capita.

Once a parochial school is known as good at something it's easy in Phila area for kids who come from a family with parochial ties and are good at the particular something to congregate at that school in pretty decent numbers to make up a base. That's step one.

Second step is to build a program through multiple angles that attracts kids outside the parochial network to join the base. Parents see this as the kids best chance to play on real good team, get exposure, receive a quality education all in one package as opposed to rolling the dice that enough good players reside in their local public school system for the team to have success. Success begets success and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

The Phila system and mindset is different than elsewhere in the state. If you grow up in North Allegheny SD and decide to play at Central Catholic you are probably catching some heat that you went away from the district. Phila. and suburbs don't really care. Quite frankly the area cares a lot less about HS football than anywhere else in the state in grand scheme of things. If a kid who was educated in the Cheltenham SD for eight years goes to Prep or LaSalle to play football no one bats an eye. We have oodles of football kids who find their way into Catholic Youth Programs in eighth grade who aren't Catholic for expressedly this purpose of getting private school exposure.

If the rest of the state really understood what is actually happening from a congregation of talent perspective in SEPA they would understand it's undeniable. These three or four have's are run like little college programs on every level. Doesn't mean they will win the gold every year because lightning strikes and a community is blessed with great talent. But it's only going to get harder as time goes by. The cat is big time out of the bag here.
 
My argument is that public schools aren't so squeaky clean and pure as the driven snow. They do their fare share of nudging kids.
 
OK find one kid on Pine Richlands team who is from out of state/county/district. Ready go

This post was edited on 12/12 1:21 PM by elcato
 
Dude, you need help. I never said any PR player was from anywhere else. I'm out, on my way to Hershey:)
 
Thank you for the non response and make sure you wear a visor even if it is dark out

This post was edited on 12/12 1:25 PM by elcato
 
Conversely, find one Pine Richlands kid whose parents invest $20,000 a year for their son's education. IMO, that is an equalizer which limits the pool of players to a substantial degree.
 
So every kid on the football team is paying 20K a year every kid, come on now
 
Nah not really anyway enjoy the games and good luck PR against the best team $$$$$$ can buy
 
I am not referring to generalizations. Financial aid packages are available. One must demonstrate need via an application process. But please respond to my post. Don't broad brush the issue.
 
So every kid on the football team is paying 20k that is what you said ,that parents are willing to pay 20k for their kids to attend wow so if every kid on the football team pays 20K what is that 60 kids X 20,000. 1.2 million wow. You brought up the 20K
 
Your reading comprehension skills are lacking. Take the time to read my post again. Let me know if you need me to type smaller words.
 
You argument/reasoning skills are lacking you can post "find one PR kid whose parents invest 20,000 for their sons education." Ok this is a false statement and should not have been posted due to your backing up by saying umm grants and special programs yadda yadda yadda. So the fact that not every player pays 20K then does not limit the pool of targeted players. Thank you and come again to How to school a tool.
 
Right - if they pay $10K instead of $20K, that presents no obstacle. How could one argue against your superior logic...
 
So even if every kid paid 10K a yea, the varsity football team pays a a group say 60 player X 10K = $600,000 wow I think some pay and others pay very little if any. So nice try strike 2
 
Another Loser! Contact the PIAA. First it was the EAST, in particular the Catholic schools would not do well in states. Know? They recruit! Elcato get over it. Should the Catholic schools be crying because the school district from Pine-Richland just recently built a new football field for millions with tax payer money? Stop crying
 
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