Non-boundary schools dominate "big school" Championships. Time to have separate playoffs- or some other CHANGE

[2020sports]

Wow. For many years, I've thought- everyone needs to stop complaining- if public schools cannot beat private- get better! But maybe- now- all 3 bigger levels- 4A, 5A, and 6A DOMINATED by non-boundary schools following DIFFERENT RULES than 90% of the other public schools in PA? Things gotta change. 5 of the finalists are/were non-boundary.

4A- Thomas Jefferson a "typical, but very good public school" from D7, has been a Western PA powerhouse- got beat in semi- then that team got dominated by the Bonner school? Thats crazy
5A- both non-boundary?? Pine-Richland kinda got dominated by McDevitt- and some say Roman might dominate McD? Thats friggin crazy. I just did a quick search- 5A has never seen both finalists being private
6A- both non-boundary!! And Central might get dominated by a SJP that is "not as good as other recent teams?" That's crazy.

I don't see this trend changing, esp among the "bigger schools."

If the PIAA is not "allowed" to have separate playoffs, then they need to do something, to "even up the rules." Maybe stop suspending coaches for recruiting, or stop ruling players ineligible for transferring.

 

[northalleghenytiger]

According to sources (me), PIAA football landscape will look radically different in 5 years

 

[RoverNation05]

Wow. For many years, I've thought- everyone needs to stop complaining- if public schools cannot beat private- get better! But maybe- now- all 3 bigger levels- 4A, 5A, and 6A DOMINATED by non-boundary schools following DIFFERENT RULES than 90% of the other public schools in PA? Things gotta change. 5 of the finalists are/were non-boundary.

4A- Thomas Jefferson a "typical, but very good public school" from D7, has been a Western PA powerhouse- got beat in semi- then that team got dominated by the Bonner school? Thats crazy
5A- both non-boundary?? Pine-Richland kinda got dominated by McDevitt- and some say Roman might dominate McD? Thats friggin crazy. I just did a quick search- 5A has never seen both finalists being private
6A- both non-boundary!! And Central might get dominated by a SJP that is "not as good as other recent teams?" That's crazy.

I don't see this trend changing, esp among the "bigger schools."

If the PIAA is not "allowed" to have separate playoffs, then they need to do something, to "even up the rules." Maybe stop suspending coaches for recruiting, or stop ruling players ineligible for transferring.

FYI -there was a stretch where there were no private schools in 5A. Just a quirk of statewide enrollment.

 

[2020sports]

FYI -there was a stretch where there were no private schools in 5A. Just a quirk of statewide enrollment.

no i think that trend is not because of enrollment- it's because of the competitive balance process- teams playing in the most championships, getting the most transfers are moved up to 4/5/6 level. Imotep, and McDevitt are perfect examples.

this is part of the reason for my post- imo, this trend is only gonna continue- and even worse for 6A.... nowhere to get "pushed up to"

 

[RoverNation05]

no i think that trend is not because of enrollment- it's because of the competitive balance process- teams playing in the most championships, getting the most transfers are moved up to 4/5/6 level. Imotep, and McDevitt are perfect examples.

this is part of the reason for my post- imo, this trend is only gonna continue- and even worse for 6A.... nowhere to get "pushed up to"

I was thinking about Roman and some of the other PCL schools that have moved down, but your point is well taken.

 

[BradlyPitt]

2020 good to see you have finally realized this

you would've many years ago if not for your favorite team Pine Richland getting SJP in somewhat of a "down" year in 2017 and if PR didn't move down to 5A in 2020 avoiding maybe the best SJP team

otherwise your favorite team would've been the biggest victim of private schools

 

[RoverNation05]

From our friends in Ohio. Sounds familiar?

16-30 for 112 and 1 TD. Liberty beat Moe 28-14. Always nice to see a public school smack down the illegally recruiting private schools.

Week before Liberty beat 3-time defending champ St. Edward in semis. Liberty is one of 4 high schools in Olentangy district. They have 10 square miles to draw from. Meanwhile Moeller draws from all of east and north Cincy.

Week before Liberty beat 3-time defending champ St. Edward in semis. Liberty is one of 4 high schools in Olentangy district. They have 10 square miles to draw from. Meanwhile Moeller draws from all of east and north Cincy.

I'm well aware. Grew up in Cincy but have lived in Columbus most of my adult life, and I'm 53. And Moe draws from all of Cincy. And sometimes kids' parents move from Northern Kentucky or Southeast Indiana just across the Ohio border so they can attend Moeller. Happens pretty often. I'm very glad Liberty won the last two week.

 

[2020sports]

From our friends in Ohio. Sounds familiar?


Week before Liberty beat 3-time defending champ St. Edward in semis. Liberty is one of 4 high schools in Olentangy district. They have 10 square miles to draw from. Meanwhile Moeller draws from all of east and north Cincy.


I'm well aware. Grew up in Cincy but have lived in Columbus most of my adult life, and I'm 53. And Moe draws from all of Cincy. And sometimes kids' parents move from Northern Kentucky or Southeast Indiana just across the Ohio border so they can attend Moeller. Happens pretty often. I'm very glad Liberty won the last two week.

hmm- that's interesting- families in Ohio need to live in the state to play for an Ohio team? That might a one small rule change for PA?

 

[tulla]

hmm- that's interesting- families in Ohio need to live in the state to play for an Ohio team? That might a one small rule change for PA?

Maybe also worth noting that St. Edward's lost not only to Liberty but to (I think) THREE other public school teams in Ohio this year.

 

[2020sports]

2020 good to see you have finally realized this

you would've many years ago if not for your favorite team Pine Richland getting SJP in somewhat of a "down" year in 2017 and if PR didn't move down to 5A in 2020 avoiding maybe the best SJP team

otherwise your favorite team would've been the biggest victim of private schools

A bigger public / boundary school has very little chance to ever win a title. 80% of HSs in PA have minimal funding and resources, and they have to follow "stricter rules"

my comments are not just about "my team winning." 5 years ago, this was a big topic for 6A. Now this is affecting 3 levels-- 4, 5 and 6.

 

[D1 Transplant]

hmm- that's interesting- families in Ohio need to live in the state to play for an Ohio team? That might a one small rule change for PA?

Trust me, that wouldn't stop St Joe's from getting players from New Jersey. A lot of Prep alumni living in Pa would suddenly have a bunch of relatives they never knew they had living with them.

 

[tulla]

Trust me, that wouldn't stop St Joe's from getting players from New Jersey. A lot of Prep alumni living in Pa would suddenly have a bunch of relatives they never knew they had living with them.

How about trusting someone who knows about SJP? I know for certain that if the PIAA added that rule, the PCL would say good-bye to the PIAA. (Note that SJP is not the only PCL school with students from Jersey.) May members of many Prep teams live in Jersey because roughly 25% of its students live in Jersey.

 

[roxychknpoxy]

Trust me, that wouldn't stop St Joe's from getting players from New Jersey. A lot of Prep alumni living in Pa would suddenly have a bunch of relatives they never knew they had living with them.

lol … SJP could care less, 80+ years with students from NJ (25%+) … don’t need to hide it or create some BS conspiracy theory … and I’ll finally say this, I ran in to a PIAA board member this time last year, very random and coincidental, I said ‘I gues this is Prep’s swan song for football’, he referenced a court ruling from 1973 that prohibits PIAA from removing any members that were added … time will tell and either way SJP will adapt and adjust just like it has since 1851

 

[RoverNation05]

Tulla and our PCL bretheren - hypothetical for you. Wyoming Seminary is one of the best wrestling teams in the country (has consistently been #1 or #2 nationally . It is a high school/boarding school up north of Wilkes-Barre that has taken boarding students for it's entire history. It is currently grandfathered in to the National Preps tournament in wrestling (which is older than the PIAA) where preps schools like Sem, Blair Academy, St. Christopher's (VA), the Inter-Ac schools, and a host of private/boarding schools up and down the east coast compete, so they don't belong to the PIAA in wrestling, though they do in other sports.

There are obvious downsides to their situation. To go to Sem, you have to move away from your family and live on campus, or live close enough to be a day student. It is prohibitively expensive, about $63,000 a year for boarding students. Families and students make major lifestyle sacrifices to go here. The academics are no joke, and many elite wrestlers who otherwise would like to go there could not handle them. Here is the geographic make-up of their starting lineup (with their individual national rankings, just as an FYI).

Wyoming Seminary
107: #18 Tunkhannock, PA (presumably a day student?)
114: Virginia
121: #13 South Carolina
127: #5 Bethlehem, PA
133: #5 Massachusetts
139: Wisconsin
145: Rhode Island
152: Wyoming, PA (presumably a day student?)
160: #4 Florida
172: West Chester, PA
189: Florida
215: #1 New Hampshire
285: Ohio

If they are no longer grandfathered into National Preps, is this a team that makes sense to be a part of the PIAA and. compete for state championships?

 

[aerogenes]

The situation in the PIAA is insane. It's absolutely nuts to allow certain schools to assemble regional all-star teams with students from anywhere... and then force other schools to play them while following strict boundary rules. Other states separate the two categories and it's criminal the PIAA doesn't do it.

 

[tulla]

The situation in the PIAA is insane. It's absolutely nuts to allow certain schools to assemble regional all-star teams with students from anywhere... and then force other schools to play them while following strict boundary rules. Other states separate the two categories and it's criminal the PIAA doesn't do it.

Insane, nuts, and criminal--all at the same time?

Some states separate boundary and non-boundary (e.g. NJ) and some states don't (e.g. OH and FL).

With respect to regional all-star teams, you'd have to say in relation to Philly that SJP is far from the only school that has good players from across the Philly area. LaSalle, Roman, Bonner, Malvern, Haverford, Ryan, and IMHOTEP (in relation to the city boundaries) are all out there doing similar if not the same things--as are several schools in south Jersey.