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Mars 2023

didn't they both have both?
Oh compared to everyone else they have both. However lebrons 20 seasons so far compared to MJs 15 total is a pretty big difference in terms of longevity. But I believe MJ peaked higher. His 6 season stretch from 1988-1993 is probably the greatest in NBA history.

Obviously, one of the biggest “what ifs” in the NBA is if MJ didn’t retire the first or second time. His 30.1 PPG is the highest in NBA history. Doing some rough math, if he gained those 4.5 seasons to his career, he would have passed KAJ and had over 40000 points in his career.

But “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, We’d all be WPIAL champions” LOL
 
A few reasons why I think think HS football is more entertaining now

1: Offense is more creative. Watching games from the 70s up until around 2005, it’s very different from 2023. QBs back in the day were really game managers. You generally didn’t need an “elite” passing QB to win. Elite teams now pretty much needs a QB who can throw well.

2: film study. This one’s pretty easy and shows how technology has progressed. I know North Allegheny uses Hudl to prepare for opponents. Defensive coaches can categorize plays based on offensive personnel. Back when I played, we watched games on tapes. That was pretty good, but it’s much more efficient now. I think players are smarter/more prepared now. I think the first two reasons go hand in hand



3. Players on average are much bigger now than in the past, particularly in the lineman positions. This more so has to do with weight. Height I think has mostly stayed the same. This has to do with better weight training/ nutrition I believe.
 
A few reasons why I think think HS football is more entertaining now

1: Offense is more creative. Watching games from the 70s up until around 2005, it’s very different from 2023. QBs back in the day were really game managers. You generally didn’t need an “elite” passing QB to win. Elite teams now pretty much needs a QB who can throw well.

2: film study. This one’s pretty easy and shows how technology has progressed. I know North Allegheny uses Hudl to prepare for opponents. Defensive coaches can categorize plays based on offensive personnel. Back when I played, we watched games on tapes. That was pretty good, but it’s much more efficient now. I think players are smarter/more prepared now. I think the first two reasons go hand in hand



3. Players on average are much bigger now than in the past, particularly in the lineman positions. This more so has to do with weight. Height I think has mostly stayed the same. This has to do with better weight training/ nutrition I believe.
Decent argument NA!
 
A few reasons why I think think HS football is more entertaining now

1: Offense is more creative. Watching games from the 70s up until around 2005, it’s very different from 2023. QBs back in the day were really game managers. You generally didn’t need an “elite” passing QB to win. Elite teams now pretty much needs a QB who can throw well.

2: film study. This one’s pretty easy and shows how technology has progressed. I know North Allegheny uses Hudl to prepare for opponents. Defensive coaches can categorize plays based on offensive personnel. Back when I played, we watched games on tapes. That was pretty good, but it’s much more efficient now. I think players are smarter/more prepared now. I think the first two reasons go hand in hand



3. Players on average are much bigger now than in the past, particularly in the lineman positions. This more so has to do with weight. Height I think has mostly stayed the same. This has to do with better weight training/ nutrition I believe.
Decent argument for sure.

For me (replying to your pts)

1. I think offense is now more bland then it's ever been. The offensive game is now more simplistic then it's ever been. 80-90% of the teams are in the gun with 3-4 WR's. The overall main reason for this is to do what the good teams could do in yesteryear - run the ball. I disagree on the QB manager thing. Whether you're in the modern game or you were playing in 1987, if you can run the ball at will - you don't need a QB who is some type of prototype. If you can't win the LOS consistently - you probably need a QB who can make some throws. This is true in both eras.

I think if you go back to the mid 90's you see so much offensive variety. Case in point -

Just examples

You had coaches like -

George Curry - multiple pro-style offense with more scheme then probably any coach I've seen before or since in the state of PA. He was a nightmare to defend.

Jim Cantafio - he probably the 1st real passing guru in PA. He was a multiple pro-style guy in the 90's at Conestoga valley and kept it going at Wilson and Wyoming Valley West but you saw his spread elements at all of his programs.

Mike Williams - reinvented himself from being a classic split back veer team to a gun spread read option type offense to running the Cam Newton power-read spread stuff we see today.

Joe Hamilton/Jim Roth - classic wing t guys who beat you to death through physicality and discipline.

George Smith/Phil Kauffman - 2 of the best triple option coaches not just in PA but the country.

Yacino - at P/T was running the run-n-shoot

I have many friends in Texas who never see under center attacks. They never see wing t, flexbone, double wing, etc. They tell me all the time, it would be a nightmare if they had to defend those offenses beacuse what they see is the same week to week.

Point #2 -

Film study is easier to access but I'm not sure it's any "better." The biggest technology help is the use of IPADS for coaches and players in game. You can make adjustments instantly. I played in the 80's and 90's and we had film study everyday and had detailed scouting reports.

Point #3

Players might be bigger in many cases but I'm not sure the line play has improved. In fact, I think it has drastically gotten worse as a whole. I've yet to see OL's like the '95 Penn Hills, '97-'99 CB West, 02 Hopewell, '14 Archbishop Wood, etc.. Now they're a few program that always have outstanding lines - Thomas Jefferson and Southern Columbia come to mind. If you just look at the caliber of OL that our state used to produce 20-30-40 years ago compared to today, it's like 2 different levels of players.
 
I am gonna chime in 2 times- more detailed later, on these 3 points- but first-

The original comment and debate was the "hayday of wpial football."

So, maybe for "entertainment" maybe I agree w tiger- more fun to watch now... but- sorry, most of the fun stuff is not good football. The "hayday" means the "best or greatest" so- no, not now- it was maybe from 1950 to 1990/2000. Back then western PA was clearly top 10, top 5 best in the country- tougher, better coaching, more kids going to big colleges. Now? sorry, no, coaching not as good, tradition has decreased. Just one small example- Jeannette. Decreasing population, less winning, less tradition.

Couple good examples of "good new offense." Recent- Shaler, Hempfield, Gateway- some winning in reg season, some good passing numbers, but minimal or no playoff success in the last 3-4 years.

Many causes for this, but imo, 3 main- decreasing population, less support for football overall, and not enough coaches stay, to "build programs." Rarely do coaches stay more than 10 years- they get pushed out, or they try to jump around to find "greener grass"
 
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uh, yea i pretty much agree w all of steel's points

1: Offense is more creative.

maybe- but just b/c they throw more does not mean more creative- more entertaining, maybe yes, but not necessarily better or more creative

"spread offense" is the thing- and mostly this happens a lot cuz of 7-7s- running game can be creative also- some of the coaches steel lists- what made them great is they taught their systems for YEARS, and the assistants knew the schemes, youth football knew it, etc

2: film study.

also, maybe- but, having tech is not always better, easier, yes, but not necessarily better

still gotta have good knowledge from coaches, and motivation and effort from the kids

some kids having hudl may not know what they are looking at- sometimes all kids pay attention to is "highlight clips." Still gotta have good coaching, teaching, and a process of pushing kids- good coaches did that in 1960, with the old film and reel- just having technology does not always make preparation "better." Trust me, i have seen it and heard it- some kids have access to look at film 24-7, but still don't care, and don't watch film. Some kids, and adults, ONLY watch to see highlight clips

3. Players on average are much bigger now

nope, i do not agree on this- bigger AND better rarely go together- just like the "highlight reel" thing- lots of kids only care about posting their ht and wt- 6'4 and 280 on the roster? might be a terrible player- in fact a kid that big in 11th grade? Usually either those numbers are bogus, or that kid is not very good
 
i just gotta chime in- Render is one of the greatest HS coaches in western Pa history. Any coach who is "doing a good job:" is not liked by everybody.

And- for a local hs football fan to "not understand" what is the "heydey" of western Pa football?? yipes
it's the heydey based on what? more college level players? ok there were more back then but kids are bigger today and play more sophisticated systems

better teams? how do we know when they didn't play anybody outside the WPIAL until 88? how can you know for sure teams then were better than today?
 
. Just one small example- Jeannette. Decreasing population, less winning, less tradition.
"
i don't think Jeannette is a good example

they won a state title i think it was 2018 or 2019, and then were runner ups in 2020 or 2021 yeah they were bad last year but lets wait a bit before we call them a "has been"

they lost their best players to a private school like Greensberg Central Catholic and their quarterback to Gateway

you private schools and public schools that recruit are the biggest culprit of all, and i won't let you forget that
 
speaking of Render, when I spoke to him I asked him who the best team he coached against was, he said 87 North Hills and his reasoning was because they were ranked number 1 in the country

i remember 2002 Woodland Hills being ranked number 2 or 3 in the country, and then they ran into Austin Scott, or maybe i should say Austin Scott ran over them?

so who knows how good 87 North Hills was when they played nobody outside the WPIAL, so that helps make those older days look like the "hey day" of the WPIAL when they only played WPIAL teams, if that makes sense
 
Went to this game. Offense got off to a slow start, but game was 10-7 at half. Mars offense came alive late and scored 28. QB, RB and WR are very, very solid. Looks like on path to old P-R on O after first quarter.

Looked like defense got tired or affected by injuries and had a tough time stopping Montour. Not great.
 
it's the heydey based on what? more college level players? ok there were more back then but kids are bigger today and play more sophisticated systems

better teams? how do we know when they didn't play anybody outside the WPIAL until 88? how can you know for sure teams then were better than today?
College players produced is probably the best indicator of how good a region is.

I speak to college coaches regularly. The WPIAL is nowhere near as coveted as it once was. We were at the Joe Moore camp this year and I was listening to Tony Wise talk about how in the mid 80's, the "U" routinely recruited the WPIAL, nowadys - no Southern school is coming to WPA for the sakes of coming to WPA. They might see a kid they like, but it's the exception not the rule.

Kids might be bigger today but so what? They're bigger, but the power 5's and mid majors don't see to think WPIAL kids are very good. So what's that tell you? It tells you that somewhere else in the country, colleges are finding bigger, stronger, and faster players - not WPIAL kids. 30-40 years ago, the WPIAL was among the top areas for the biggest, fastest, strongest, kids -that's why they had so many national level type recruits. That's why many more became all conference, all americans, nfl draft picks then we see today.

Sophisticated systems - completely subjective but I think if you ask any HS coach, it's so much easier to teach scheme compared to even 15-20 years ago.
 
New, do you know why Kasperowicz is at RB and Goodworth is at QB? Do you think Kasperowicz projects better as a RB at the next level? Could it be Goodworth leading to Jameson at QB next year? I haven't seen many games, but I thought Kasperowicz was supposed to be the QB and he was injured. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 
New, do you know why Kasperowicz is at RB and Goodworth is at QB? Do you think Kasperowicz projects better as a RB at the next level? Could it be Goodworth leading to Jameson at QB next year? I haven't seen many games, but I thought Kasperowicz was supposed to be the QB and he was injured. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
rumor is little EK hurt his arm playing dodgeball... yea- imo DB is his future
 
2020/Bummer: I heard the same thing. Gym class. Surgery before season and more needed later.

From everything I've heard, Goodworth is doing really, really well. P-R's old QB coach is the OC and they have DeVinney there too so he's getting good coaching. I've heard some comparisons to him being similar to Spencer at P-R. Some of the throws I've seen him make on Instagram look pretty impressive. They also have a very good RB (Wright) and WR (Hein) - I saw a tweet or post or something by their football account something like Goodworth, Hein, and Wright lead 4A in passing, receiving, rushing and scoring.

Goodworth is a Junior so I doubt he will be benched next year if he keeps this up. I've really not heard anything about Garvin (Jameson?) on either side of the ball.

I'm guessing EK Jr will be a DB at next level.

I will get more info for you guys.
 
2020/Bummer: I heard the same thing. Gym class. Surgery before season and more needed later.

From everything I've heard, Goodworth is doing really, really well. P-R's old QB coach is the OC and they have DeVinney there too so he's getting good coaching. I've heard some comparisons to him being similar to Spencer at P-R. Some of the throws I've seen him make on Instagram look pretty impressive. They also have a very good RB (Wright) and WR (Hein) - I saw a tweet or post or something by their football account something like Goodworth, Hein, and Wright lead 4A in passing, receiving, rushing and scoring.

Goodworth is a Junior so I doubt he will be benched next year if he keeps this up. I've really not heard anything about Garvin (Jameson?) on either side of the ball.

I'm guessing EK Jr will be a DB at next level.

I will get more info for you guys.
Garvin= 3 sports stud-starting LB, 9th grader- great QB in 7 & 8, goes by Jamo
 
Hey New, or others- here we go, can Coach Kasper make a run? Win tonight- and he's with the big dogs- most likely Central Valley next week? I say maybe- but gotta beat Central Valley, then maybe Aliquippa then maybe TJ or McKeesport? Just to "win this district?" wow!!
 
Hey New, or others- here we go, can Coach Kasper make a run? Win tonight- and he's with the big dogs- most likely Central Valley next week? I say maybe- but gotta beat Central Valley, then maybe Aliquippa then maybe TJ or McKeesport? Just to "win this district?" wow!!
they easily win tonight because CV stinks

no chance at anything else
 
2020 - next week vs Central Valley should be interesting. One of the big dawgs. A win will open some eyes.
 
Mars vs Central Valley should be a good game
I've watched CV a couple of times the past few weeks. They are a really young team, but played Aliquippa tight until late in a 27-17 Loss. CV will concentrate on stopping their stud RB Evan Wright, which could open up their passing game, but I think CV wins a close one in the end. My prediction is CV-24 Mars-21
 
I've watched CV a couple of times the past few weeks. They are a really young team, but played Aliquippa tight until late in a 27-17 Loss. CV will concentrate on stopping their stud RB Evan Wright, which could open up their passing game, but I think CV wins a close one in the end. My prediction is CV-24 Mars-21
agreed- looking at "common opponents" of Hampton and Montour, looks like CV wins
 
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Woah. Mars wins over CV 24-14 even with Little Kasper and best WR out. Heard it should have been 31-14, but Mars took a knee on 3 yard line.

Mars vs. Quips next week.
 
they easily win tonight because CV stinks

no chance at anything else
Samuel L Jackson Reaction GIF by Coming to America
 
Woah. Mars wins over CV 24-14 even with Little Kasper and best WR out. Heard it should have been 31-14, but Mars took a knee on 3 yard line.

Mars vs. Quips next week.
I was at the game and Kasper just has his guys prepared on a week to week basis. He truly raises the ceiling of every program he's been a part of.
 
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