one of the luckiest teams ever, if they were born a year earlier or a year later they get mercy ruled by SJP
Imhotep
- Thread starter newport
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Give Imhotep’s talent to a better coaching staff they don’t lose a game in state. Undisciplined and never make in game adjustments. They rely on talent alone and when a well coached team plays them they’re always in a dog fight. UD and Roman played them tough. Those games are at least won by 3 scores with better coaching. When I seen them play I think they could be a national power if put in the right hands.
I'm sure coaching has some impact here, but isn't there some discrepancy in the student-athletes attending Prep and the student-athletes attending Imhotep?
There are some obvious differences. Over the last seven or eight years a few kids, one or two very talented, who started at the Prep transferred to Imhotep. I don't know the particular reasons, but I can say that every year 1-3 players from the freshman team leave the Prep for one of two reasons: the academic requirements are too difficult or the Prep simply isn't a good fit for them--maybe they want a different kind of academic program, or a school closer to home, or a school with girls, etc.
But here is the bigger picture, which I suspect everyone has a sense of but some people may find hard to talk about. Nearly all of Imhotep's students come from the city of Philadelphia and, from what I've seen, nearly all of them are African-Americans. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.) The Prep gets students from a larger geographic area and, obviously its football team has a roughly equal number of White and African-American players. Gradually over the last five decades or so, the Prep has been increasing the number of African-American students--that's partly because of the school's commitment to address racial divisions and inequalities and partly because the school (like all Catholic schools) no longer admits only Catholics. It should also be noted that not all the African-American students at the Prep are from the city: the Trotters, Olamide Zaccheaus, Victor Hobson, and John Reid, for instance, all lived in Jersey. (And Marvin Harrison was no city kid.) Re: the Trotters and Harrison, they remind me of the number of former football players who have sent their sons to the Prep, only partly for football reasons. There was Greg Castillo (son of Juan, Eagle coach at the time), Skyler Mornhinweg, one or two of Andy Reid's sons, Jon Runyon, Kyle McCord, and Anthony Sacca. I'm probably forgetting a few. (In basketball, Miles Overton, who played under Speedy Morris, and Jaron McKie, current player, are the sons of former NBA players.)
The Prep's diversity is not only racial and geographic but socio-economic. Some students come from rich families, some from poor families, and most from families that are somewhere in-between. I don't know a lot about Imhotep, but I suspect it's less diverse.
Correct. Imhotep is less diverse or not at all. Children in the inner city who may want to use football as a vehicle to live a better life in reality have 2 choices if they’re serious. Prep or Imhotep. Although prep is highly sought after, being admitted is not guaranteed. The course load is serious and it’s more structural. When you look at the number of power 5 kids both schools are producing yr over yr imhotep is pretty neck and neck if not more. Coaching separates the schools. When I attend games I look at pregame, in game adjustments, and player/coach interactions. Prep runs a tight ship, whereas imhotep have a longer leash. Watching the championship game I seen parents in the sideline, disgruntled players acting out, and coaches looking shocked instead of gathering the troops. I take nothing away from PR and what they accomplished but they literally ran the same plays up and down the field. Not once did imhotep direct their defensive linemen in a way to stop qb draw/lead. That’s coaching. Supposedly you have 2 power 5 interior guys on defense and they can’t hip a pulling guard or wrong arm a trap. Sad
Do kids that do better in school tend to take coaching any better than kids that struggle in school? I would think it's a little easier to make in-game adjustments when your roster is full of the best and brightest.
I don’t think sjp have the best and brightest or implying that imhotep does not have scholars. If you lose the locker room it will bite you in the butt more times than none. This is no secret in the area that since the departure of Albie the team lacked discipline , leadership, and relied solely on talent. Starts from top down.
ok, folks, interesting conversation here- but let's NOT make this about race. African-American vs White, no i agree disagree. Complicated topic, these things overlap, but this not just "about race." Lotsa stuff. Maybe biggest factor is low-income and education level. Probably SJP has higher income families, more educated, than Imotep Families- that stuff matters.
Simple question by me- I'm pretty sure Imotep is a "charter school." But it technically had to be Philly Public School students? So, they might be "drawing from" the whole city, 1 million people- but they have to "live within" Philly City schools? I apologize if i am mixed up on this, but I'm from the burgh- frankly I get confused w the Philly Catholic and Philly City League. Just a lot bigger, and a lot more people and schools than Pittsburgh
Not a race issue ,the subject is coaching. Tep won its state title when they had Brett Gordon as its OC. Its amazing the talent they have , but dont bring home the title . Coaching is the issue for sure IMO.
Exactly I didn’t think my response was racial at all. It’s coaching and coaching alone. I think imhotep have one of the most talented group of kids in the state. I’ve said it for quite some time. It’s no way you don’t win with that team. They’ve had more highly touted athletes than any team as of late. Many believe the amount of d1 athletes you have on your team gives you a better chance at winning. If this is true they should win it all a lot more.
I think I'm the guy who first mentioned race--not the most comfortable topic, I know. But race is a real factor. Take a look at the photos of any group of all-American college football players from more than 20 years ago. Guaranteed that you'll see more white faces than you'll see in any such photos of recent years. It wasn't so long ago that more than a few people were saying African-Americans weren't suited to playing QB--though if you're under 45 you may not remember that. I spend a lot of time in upstate NY (north of Syracuse) and northern Vermont--where there are relatively few African-Americans. Guess what? Lots of high schools have dropped football and those that have teams aren't very good.
Or take SJP. When I think of those great teams from the first years of this century I can think of only a very few A-A players (e.g.. Danny Jones). The big-time ball carriers, (Ambrogi, Kaiser, Shaw, etc.) were all white as were the receivers and nearly all the d-backs. Now think of the era since Zaccheaus, Reid, Swift, etc. Or you can just look at photos of the teams since 2013 or so. As I said before, this is connected to other big changes, in particular the school's actively seeking students from various religious backgrounds. When I went to the Prep, every student was a Catholic. Now there are Jews, Mormons, Protestants, and students from a-religious families. It happens that there are relatively few A-A Catholics. (The Prep now also has A-As on its football coaching staff--it didn't 15 years ago.)
Of course there are lots of white kids in the Prep football team--many of whom (McCord, the Johnsons, Runyon, Nilles, etc.) have been key. Again, the point is that the Prep has a very wide of mix of students and players. Imhotep has a much narrower mix of students (demographically speaking) than the Prep. Anyone expect to see ten--or even five--white players on the Tep roster next year?
Agreed. I also believe you can give imhotep’s team to UD staff, sjp staff, or Wood’s Devlin and you have a national power.
diverse yes, just not all about race- religious, economic, education level, and racial diversity
i am not claiming anyone one this message board is racist, my point is, it's not just about race
two simple examples from SJP- Trotter and Harrison. Were/Are they great cuz they are black? No, they are great cuz the kids are great athletes, largely b/c their families have great athletes, great sports lineages, money, and they support their kids' commitment on "how to succeed in sports." My guess is most kids at Imotep, likey do not as many of have those supports and resources
Coaching yes, but these factors above imo are just as strong as coaching
No. When I went to the Prep just over 50 years ago I took part in what we called the Community Action Program. In my case that meant travelling to the school every Saturday morning--from Jersey!--to tutor kids from North Philly (all Black, as I remember) in part to prepare at least some of them to come to the Prep. The school had just received a big donation from Allan Amache and Dino Marchetti--two NFL players--to help pay the tuitions of disadvantaged students. The school's decision to stay in North Philly after 2/3 of it burned in 1966 was very much linked to its commitment to the people of the area. Also, as I mentioned the decision to admit "non-Catholics" also had an effect on the number of Black students. Gradually the number of Black students at the Prep increased over the decades. So the greater number of them is not primarily the result of recruiting for football or basketball.
But, of course, in relatively recent years, both the desire to build a successful program and the resulting success and high profile of the program have increased the number of Black student/athletes. The decision of John Reid, Olamide Zaccheaus, D'Andre Swift, etc. (and their parents, of course) to attend the Prep and what happened after they started there and later graduated must also play a part in attracting other Black students and families.