Great Job PCL
- Thread starter chuvalo
- Start date
Reluctant please stop. You lost and your boys had a great year. Don't take away from their accomplishments.
The SJP / Private School Advantage
I watched the game via livestream today and so listened to at least one of the commentators going on at great length about the advantage SJP has in being able to "recruit" and draw students from a wide geographic area. No doubt the complaints like his will get louder if SJP wins next week. Some points:
1. Of course it's an advantage to be able to draw students from about a 25 mile radius of centre city.
2. It's a disadvantage not to have outdoor practice facilities on site and for almost all players to have a 30-60 minute commute (usually closer to the latter and sometimes more) each way in the morning.
and after practice in the evening. That fact and the academic requirements of SJP have meant that lots of potential "recruits" decide not to attend and some promising players leave during or after their first year at SJP.
3. The Prep's central location makes it easier for it than for LaSalle, Wood, and all other PCL schools except Roman to draw students from all over the area. Someone on here commented that LaSalle doesn't recruit players. That's not true; they just can't recruit players--and students--from as wide an area because of their location.
4. Last week the Prep won a very close game against Parkland. Next year Parkland returns almost the whole team. The implications are clear.
5. This year for the first time I can recall the Prep has a transfer who came at the start of his junior year. It's probably an advantage to be able to accept transfers who come at the start of their senior year and to be able to accept a number of transfers at the start of their junior year. The Prep generally "loses" many more players to transfers than it gains.
6. Unlike what many say or assume, the families of the great majority of SJP players pay a substantial amount of tuition--and they pay extra for football-related activities. That's hardly an advantage.
I watched the game via livestream today and so listened to at least one of the commentators going on at great length about the advantage SJP has in being able to "recruit" and draw students from a wide geographic area. No doubt the complaints like his will get louder if SJP wins next week. Some points:
1. Of course it's an advantage to be able to draw students from about a 25 mile radius of centre city.
2. It's a disadvantage not to have outdoor practice facilities on site and for almost all players to have a 30-60 minute commute (usually closer to the latter and sometimes more) each way in the morning.
and after practice in the evening. That fact and the academic requirements of SJP have meant that lots of potential "recruits" decide not to attend and some promising players leave during or after their first year at SJP.
3. The Prep's central location makes it easier for it than for LaSalle, Wood, and all other PCL schools except Roman to draw students from all over the area. Someone on here commented that LaSalle doesn't recruit players. That's not true; they just can't recruit players--and students--from as wide an area because of their location.
4. Last week the Prep won a very close game against Parkland. Next year Parkland returns almost the whole team. The implications are clear.
5. This year for the first time I can recall the Prep has a transfer who came at the start of his junior year. It's probably an advantage to be able to accept transfers who come at the start of their senior year and to be able to accept a number of transfers at the start of their junior year. The Prep generally "loses" many more players to transfers than it gains.
6. Unlike what many say or assume, the families of the great majority of SJP players pay a substantial amount of tuition--and they pay extra for football-related activities. That's hardly an advantage.
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
Yep, recruiting made Pennsbury fumble three times in the 2nd QT and four times total. Yea, recruiting made Pennsibury have an obsolete passing attack. Has a team ever trailed 27-0 at half and gone onto to throw 3 passes? Think about it. And don't blame the rain. And the last time I checked Pennsbury is a pretty big school, so they should have more tha. Enough bodies to compete. It just wasn't their day. They has a great year and they're a very good program. No need to start whining. At the end of the day it's just a bunch of 16-18 year old kids playing a game.
Yep, recruiting made Pennsbury fumble three times in the 2nd QT and four times total. Yea, recruiting made Pennsibury have an obsolete passing attack. Has a team ever trailed 27-0 at half and gone onto to throw 3 passes? Think about it. And don't blame the rain. And the last time I checked Pennsbury is a pretty big school, so they should have more tha. Enough bodies to compete. It just wasn't their day. They has a great year and they're a very good program. No need to start whining. At the end of the day it's just a bunch of 16-18 year old kids playing a game.
whammy
Tulla and Huck -
Whammy - the difference ... Commitment - SJP is no walk in the park, especially academically. And yes, they lose far more than they gain. Recruit this ... If you're that good, you will be noticed and the school doesn't matter. There is a ton of talent in SEPA and it's good for all.
Tulla and Huck -
Whammy - the difference ... Commitment - SJP is no walk in the park, especially academically. And yes, they lose far more than they gain. Recruit this ... If you're that good, you will be noticed and the school doesn't matter. There is a ton of talent in SEPA and it's good for all.
Re: whammy
It's funny, before the last three games we heard how big, how fast and how talented teams were SJP was scheduled to play. The truth of the matter is everyone was correct. Franklin, Parkland and Pennsbury were all loaded. Were they ready to play at the levlel of champion? I would say not! Parkland was close! They would be if Pennsbury was there opponent. Here is my question, would anyone be crying if Pennsbury lost to Parkland or is it just to easy to point fingers at SJP as being an all-star team that recruits.
Here is my opinion on this whole thing. If you were to put Curry from Berwick or prop up Petinne on the side lines of Pennsbury that game would have been completely different. Parkland almost beat the Prep and that was a very well coached team. After their loss last season, their coaching staff made the changes in their game plan to compete this year and they came close. The fact is Pennsbury was loaded with talent on the field and the numbers on the sideline indicated depth. The score board indicated their was a short coming somewhere. All fingers point to coaching. There were so many fundamental football issues on that field yesterday. You cannot arm tackle in the semi-finals of the PIAA quad A. Your offensive line has to move their feet and not lunge in the semi-finals of the PIAA quad A. The size was there, the speed was there as well as the talent. Unfortunately for the boys who worked hard in the offseason and the regular season, they were not prepared to compete at the necessary level to win the PIAA semi-finals. That's it! They didn't lose do to recruiting. There are 4k students in Pennsbury. That is more then enough to compete and beat SJP. The score of 37-7 indicates deeper issues!
This post was edited on 12/7 7:04 AM by 2loudNclear
It's funny, before the last three games we heard how big, how fast and how talented teams were SJP was scheduled to play. The truth of the matter is everyone was correct. Franklin, Parkland and Pennsbury were all loaded. Were they ready to play at the levlel of champion? I would say not! Parkland was close! They would be if Pennsbury was there opponent. Here is my question, would anyone be crying if Pennsbury lost to Parkland or is it just to easy to point fingers at SJP as being an all-star team that recruits.
Here is my opinion on this whole thing. If you were to put Curry from Berwick or prop up Petinne on the side lines of Pennsbury that game would have been completely different. Parkland almost beat the Prep and that was a very well coached team. After their loss last season, their coaching staff made the changes in their game plan to compete this year and they came close. The fact is Pennsbury was loaded with talent on the field and the numbers on the sideline indicated depth. The score board indicated their was a short coming somewhere. All fingers point to coaching. There were so many fundamental football issues on that field yesterday. You cannot arm tackle in the semi-finals of the PIAA quad A. Your offensive line has to move their feet and not lunge in the semi-finals of the PIAA quad A. The size was there, the speed was there as well as the talent. Unfortunately for the boys who worked hard in the offseason and the regular season, they were not prepared to compete at the necessary level to win the PIAA semi-finals. That's it! They didn't lose do to recruiting. There are 4k students in Pennsbury. That is more then enough to compete and beat SJP. The score of 37-7 indicates deeper issues!
This post was edited on 12/7 7:04 AM by 2loudNclear
Re: whammy
From what I have seen watching both teams in other games is that Prep had more size and talent head to head to begin with.
Snorweagh was the only D-1 player. Their kids have good talent, some very good, but not as exceptional as Prep.
Prep draws exceptional talent, on the field and in the classroom.
Pennsbury held their own in the first quarter, but the fumbles in their own territory killed them. This was an anomaly for them. They had very few fumbles all season. This is a very good team with good coaches, but Prep is a better team with good coaches. I could say that if the balls weren't so wet, then... but truth is Prep didn't fumble.
Reluctant seems to be one of the only posters singing the recruiting hackneyed song, but he accomplished what he set out to do. His goal was to start that refrain so that everybody in PCL would rally to the detriment of Pennsbury players and coaches whom he has often stated that he dislikes. He is a very clever fellow with machiavellian skill.
And we fell for it…. some of the very smartest posters on this board.
This post was edited on 12/7 8:16 AM by ftballtalk
From what I have seen watching both teams in other games is that Prep had more size and talent head to head to begin with.
Snorweagh was the only D-1 player. Their kids have good talent, some very good, but not as exceptional as Prep.
Prep draws exceptional talent, on the field and in the classroom.
Pennsbury held their own in the first quarter, but the fumbles in their own territory killed them. This was an anomaly for them. They had very few fumbles all season. This is a very good team with good coaches, but Prep is a better team with good coaches. I could say that if the balls weren't so wet, then... but truth is Prep didn't fumble.
Reluctant seems to be one of the only posters singing the recruiting hackneyed song, but he accomplished what he set out to do. His goal was to start that refrain so that everybody in PCL would rally to the detriment of Pennsbury players and coaches whom he has often stated that he dislikes. He is a very clever fellow with machiavellian skill.
And we fell for it…. some of the very smartest posters on this board.
This post was edited on 12/7 8:16 AM by ftballtalk
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
Like Pittsburgh Central Catholic, who once had Tino Sunseri transfer in because his parents couldn't find a catholic school good enough for him in the entire state of North Carolina. Hey Jimbo, sounds like you're creating excuses already. Wpial will be lucky to go 2 and 2 this weekend.
Like Pittsburgh Central Catholic, who once had Tino Sunseri transfer in because his parents couldn't find a catholic school good enough for him in the entire state of North Carolina. Hey Jimbo, sounds like you're creating excuses already. Wpial will be lucky to go 2 and 2 this weekend.
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
And here's to private school parents who get fleeced by your school district in taxes, send their kids to private schools anyway, and then have to listen to your bullshit about how rough you have it.....please!
And here's to private school parents who get fleeced by your school district in taxes, send their kids to private schools anyway, and then have to listen to your bullshit about how rough you have it.....please!
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
On the flip side of your population whine, all those WPIAL state titles were never true state titles because 10% of the state's population wasn't even represented in the PIAA.
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
Elcato I forgot how much I missed you! It took the playoffs to bring you back? Please down take a hiatus again your moronic post make my monthly fees worth it. Welcome back you clown!
Elcato I forgot how much I missed you! It took the playoffs to bring you back? Please down take a hiatus again your moronic post make my monthly fees worth it. Welcome back you clown!
2LoudToListen you say Pennsbury draws from 4k kids in their hallways ... I would argue that SJP draws from the combined total of all school districts in SEPA and Jersey.
Being able to recruit (sorry draw) from that size an area trumps any enrollment figure you want to throw out there. I'll put together my picks from NP, Pennsbury, Neshaminy etc and see you in the 5A title game!
That's why you see years between stud teams from NP, NHS, PHS. It's just a matter of the right group of kids coming through the system together.
Being able to recruit (sorry draw) from that size an area trumps any enrollment figure you want to throw out there. I'll put together my picks from NP, Pennsbury, Neshaminy etc and see you in the 5A title game!
That's why you see years between stud teams from NP, NHS, PHS. It's just a matter of the right group of kids coming through the system together.
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
Yes my mother is a handful! Most guys don't go there to eat Lasagna but that would explain soooo much about you! Clown!
Rivals needs to up their monthly subscription because this entertainment is too cheap!!!
Yes my mother is a handful! Most guys don't go there to eat Lasagna but that would explain soooo much about you! Clown!
Rivals needs to up their monthly subscription because this entertainment is too cheap!!!
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
Great post as always Tulla. There are advantages and disadvantages, but some are capable of seeing it only one way.
And a correction on the mile radius. Some players come from 35 miles away or more. Which is a tremendous sacrifice in terms of time invested.
I am curious as to who is the transfer who came in at the start of the 2013 season.
For the record, SJP did have a junior-year transfer in the 2006 season. I forget the kids name; big redhead offensive lineman from Jenkintown HS who later played at Penn. Joe McKendry, maybe.
Great post as always Tulla. There are advantages and disadvantages, but some are capable of seeing it only one way.
And a correction on the mile radius. Some players come from 35 miles away or more. Which is a tremendous sacrifice in terms of time invested.
I am curious as to who is the transfer who came in at the start of the 2013 season.
For the record, SJP did have a junior-year transfer in the 2006 season. I forget the kids name; big redhead offensive lineman from Jenkintown HS who later played at Penn. Joe McKendry, maybe.
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
nj,
Benny Walls came from Camden Catholic after his sophomore year last year. That means he very likely went to CC expecting to play for Brooks. From what I've seen, he's really gotten better over the course of the season.
Thanks for noting there was an earlier transfer who came in as a junior. Given the general trends, they may be a little more common than in the past, but I can't imagine there being, on average, more than about one a year. We can probably both name a dozen or more very promising players who left the Prep in the last ten years or so--not including the ones who left just before and just after Brooks left.
nj,
Benny Walls came from Camden Catholic after his sophomore year last year. That means he very likely went to CC expecting to play for Brooks. From what I've seen, he's really gotten better over the course of the season.
Thanks for noting there was an earlier transfer who came in as a junior. Given the general trends, they may be a little more common than in the past, but I can't imagine there being, on average, more than about one a year. We can probably both name a dozen or more very promising players who left the Prep in the last ten years or so--not including the ones who left just before and just after Brooks left.
Re: The SJP / Private School Advantage
Tulla, thanks for the update. I wonder if Bennie Walls is related to Kevin Walls, the Camden HS basketball player who once scored 100 points in a game.
True on the transfers out of The Prep. It is not an easy place to stay at for four years.
Tulla, thanks for the update. I wonder if Bennie Walls is related to Kevin Walls, the Camden HS basketball player who once scored 100 points in a game.
True on the transfers out of The Prep. It is not an easy place to stay at for four years.
Re: whiner
Stop beating a dead horse. Kids are transferring/being recruited at both public and private. You sound like a sore loser.
Stop beating a dead horse. Kids are transferring/being recruited at both public and private. You sound like a sore loser.
JB-
Enter to Learn, Leave to Serve? A lot of people have a general understanding of what SJP and LaSalle are about and we don't have to send our kids there to understand. The two Schools are arguably two of the finest college-prep institutions in the area. So are MP, GA, EA, etc from the Inter-AC. I could argue a Lower Merion, Harriton, and Radnor as fine Public institutions. There are other examples of very good Public Schools in the suburbs. The academic rigor of a private Catholic school has never been questioned. I even agree that an Archdiocese Catholic education is excellent Those schools are not SJP or LaSalle, however.
I agree with Huck's comments that these schools attract talent. In the classroom first, and on the field second. The R word is not really relevant. I chose to send our kids to a great Public HS. Our choice as parents. We moved to an area based on the School District. A school with 16 AP courses and an excellent academic reputation for a Public. That school also has had a pretty good football program in recent years in D1.
It is ok to have pride in a school and a program, as long as the virtue of humility is present. At times, I don't hear or read that on this forum. It is what it is............ That my friend, is why this R debate will never go away. Too much pride on both sides.
I wish I could have afforded to send my kid to LaSalle. I could not. I chose the next best option.
Enter to Learn, Leave to Serve? A lot of people have a general understanding of what SJP and LaSalle are about and we don't have to send our kids there to understand. The two Schools are arguably two of the finest college-prep institutions in the area. So are MP, GA, EA, etc from the Inter-AC. I could argue a Lower Merion, Harriton, and Radnor as fine Public institutions. There are other examples of very good Public Schools in the suburbs. The academic rigor of a private Catholic school has never been questioned. I even agree that an Archdiocese Catholic education is excellent Those schools are not SJP or LaSalle, however.
I agree with Huck's comments that these schools attract talent. In the classroom first, and on the field second. The R word is not really relevant. I chose to send our kids to a great Public HS. Our choice as parents. We moved to an area based on the School District. A school with 16 AP courses and an excellent academic reputation for a Public. That school also has had a pretty good football program in recent years in D1.
It is ok to have pride in a school and a program, as long as the virtue of humility is present. At times, I don't hear or read that on this forum. It is what it is............ That my friend, is why this R debate will never go away. Too much pride on both sides.
I wish I could have afforded to send my kid to LaSalle. I could not. I chose the next best option.
I didn't mean to imply that any schools have ownership over good education; there are great students in public as well as private schools.
It's just sometimes on this board I get the sense that some believe the purpose of high school expenditures is to provide a platform for their child to (being honest here) show off their mostly mediocre athletic talent.
The purpose of high school is to educate and prepare children for real life, prepare them to succeed.
I know my own circumstances academics were ahead of all else; athletics, job, girlfriend .... the rules were clearly spelled out.
So, when the time came that the rules above were forgotten and academics slid, dad was forced to remove son from his athletic program for a semester. Somehow, one marking period was all it took for reality to reset in.
Kids need to learn it's more about being a success in life than a success in what to most is no more than a diversionary hobby.
It's just sometimes on this board I get the sense that some believe the purpose of high school expenditures is to provide a platform for their child to (being honest here) show off their mostly mediocre athletic talent.
The purpose of high school is to educate and prepare children for real life, prepare them to succeed.
I know my own circumstances academics were ahead of all else; athletics, job, girlfriend .... the rules were clearly spelled out.
So, when the time came that the rules above were forgotten and academics slid, dad was forced to remove son from his athletic program for a semester. Somehow, one marking period was all it took for reality to reset in.
Kids need to learn it's more about being a success in life than a success in what to most is no more than a diversionary hobby.