Bill to Separate Boundary and Non-Boundary Schools

[new2pa]

https://www.pennlive.com/sports/2019/02/pa-lawmaker-to-unveil-bill-for-separate-high-school-playoffs.html

Interesting. PIAA was not going to upset status quo and had the ability to stand behind the interpretation of a vaguely worded 50 year old law. Either this will succeed or fail and that will be it for a while.

 

[Relayer]

OK, let's go back to 2003 where North Penn and St Joe Prep will never get a chance to play a "game of the century". Psst, please remind the author that 9 of the 12 finalists were public schools in 2018.

 

[lilromeo]

OK, let's go back to 2003 where North Penn and St Joe Prep will never get a chance to play a "game of the century". Psst, please remind the author that 9 of the 12 finalists were public schools in 2018.

That Prep/Pine Richland first encounter wasn't too bad either.

 

[HSFballFan19]

I believe it’d be a major mistake to separate boundary and non-boundary.

 

[Soup13]

North Penn vs LaSalle had some incredible games in the state semi's .....

 

[new2pa]

In 4/6A football, I only go back to 2013. Since then, P-R's been the only boundary school to win. That's probably also as far back as the current players and their parents memories go back too. I have mixed feelings. It is definitely possible to compete and win at the state level. But do you need a once in a lifetime kid like Jurkovec to do it? In '14, P-R didn't have that and nearly pulled it off. So, its tough to say for me. But besides Parkland in '15, P-R ('14/'17), and Harrisburg ('18), what do the other 90+ large school parents think.

It will be interesting to see what happens and the rhetoric that comes about because of this. Even if it gets voted on.

 

[DDRTC]

This is a no brainer. My guess is that 80% of public high school football coaches (if not more) would be in favor of separating. So far the only argument against it is 'There were a couple of years when a public school was competitive and those were really good games.' If North Penn wants to play SJP, they can schedule them in the regular season.

 

[Stalker]

The non-boundary champ should play Southern Columbia.

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

No matter how you set it up, there will always be "what if " games. Could Wood have beaten Pine Richland? Could Southern Columbia Beat ECP? You cant fix every scenario. At least the current proposal does not take the New Jersey approach and have 35 state champs. There will still be 6 champs-4 boundary and 2 non-boundary.

 

[newman107]

Personally, I am 100% against this. I get the argument, but I believe the thinking is flawed. I think it's safe to say less than 10 percent of the boundary schools have a legitimate chance to win a State title. Probably even win a District title. Maybe the coaches of those schools have a leg to stand on, but all the other boundary schools are just choosing sides and don't want to go against their brethren. On top of that, I can see some animosity growing (continuing to grow?) between the two groups. Even now, aside from North Penn and the WPIAL schools, the boundary schools don't want to play the non-boundary schools. Outside of District 12 do these guys realize the distance that would need to be covered to have to play another non-boundary school? How far would Scranton Prep or Bishop Guilfoyle have to go to play another non-boundary school of the same size? Hell, how far would Bethlehem Catholic have to go? Maybe its me...I don't know. I'm open to the conversation, but it can't just be that "it's not fair".

 

[South Ave Sam]

Boundary coaches are winning the war, this will lead to everyone = is a STATE CHAMP!! Order 3000 State Champion Trophies!

 

[Stalker]

Why not leave it the way it is. Just give out more plaques; Private School Champ (SJP) and Public School Champ (Hburg). Sooner or later the worm will turn; eg Infanti gone....who knows how that shakes out, Palko West A retires, Render USC, Shiffert from Easton as a few egs.

 

[CYOBALL1]

Now will the PIAA go through rosters with a fine toothed comb and pull all the kids that are on rosters that do not live in the school district??

 

[TND775]

Now will the PIAA go through rosters with a fine toothed comb and pull all the kids that are on rosters that do not live in the school district??

nope

 

[D1football22]

Leave it the way it is... or go back to 4 divisions and make it more competitive earlier in the District playoffs. At th end of the day, only a few teams are “State Champ” caliber anyway...

 

[6daystosaturday]

Here we are in the midst of the big yawn. 6 state titles and no one outside the board will really care. Newspapers covering hs less and less. Everyone wins yet no one cares.

 

[Soup13]

The first state champ was Pgh CC in 4A in 88. All neighborhood kids at the time. Now both pubs and private/catholic can really get the neighborhood and a few elite kids here and there, a good bit catholic kids are going to catholic HS any way ... so each pub and private can sometimes be labeled as recruiting for academics. Social and athletics. Rumors and much truth of “recruiting”at North Penn, Pgh CC, Pine Richland, Woodland Hills(Gronkowski)West A, North A, SJP, Neshaminy, Wood... bottom line is leave it alone. Play ball, the more competitive the better.

 

[Stalker]

Here we are in the midst of the big yawn. 6 state titles and no one outside the board will really care. Newspapers covering hs less and less. Everyone wins yet no one cares.

The coverage here is SUPER thin, but not that way in Pittsburgh or Harrisburg. And AllenBethEast area does a nice job as well. The Gettysburg Times does a better job covering FB than most SE PA media. Incredible!

 

[Burrs5]

Is Southern Columbia a boundary school or non-boundary school?

 

[D1sideline]

Leave it the way it is... or go back to 4 divisions and make it more competitive earlier in the District playoffs. At th end of the day, only a few teams are “State Champ” caliber anyway...

They need to cut down the number of play off births. 3 &7 does not belong in a playoff in any sport in any state at any level

 

[Stalker]

Is Southern Columbia a boundary school or non-boundary school?

Boundary. I was joking about them playing the large school champ but do like the idea of multiple plaques, one for Harrisburg, The Public School 2018 6A Champion and one for SJP, The 2018 6A State Champ, overall, whatever. If title game is between "same", go with Champion and runner up. Not sure why this has to be rocket science. And like "New" said, there aren't enough teams to play if separated; eg Bishop Guilfoyle, Scranton Prep, etc. How far will they travel for games, will anyone want to play them, not private?
The PIAA will likely discuss it, go to committee then schedule a meeting 5 years down line to do it all over again, letting it die down. And hey, the worm really does turn so things may take care of themselves.

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

This is the equivalent of Trump getting impreachec! Ain’t gonna happen.

 

[Stalker]

This is the equivalent of Trump getting impreachec! Ain’t gonna happen.

You never now with these guys. People complained enough to change classifications with 4A ridiculously top heavy (500 some to infinity!?) but took the easy route to 6 classes instead of a real fix. What's next, 7 classes?
I feel it ruined D7 and in the process States dropping Penn Hills, McKeesport, Upper St. Clair, Woodland Hills, North Hills, Gateway, Peen Trafford, etc, etc to 5A. There should have been a redistribution of teams/districts, going with 5 classes, not 6.

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

Not starting any rumors but if separation happened I wouldn’t mind seeing my alma mater Shanahan join the Catholic League. Pipe dream buy nothing like having an opportunity to play at Palestra for basketball championships plus being in arguably one of strongest leagues (Phila Catholic League) in PA.

 

[shfoot]

You never now with these guys. People complained enough to change classifications with 4A ridiculously top heavy (500 some to infinity!?) but took the easy route to 6 classes instead of a real fix. What's next, 7 classes?
I feel it ruined D7 and in the process States dropping Penn Hills, McKeesport, Upper St. Clair, Woodland Hills, North Hills, Gateway, Peen Trafford, etc, etc to 5A. There should have been a redistribution of teams/districts, going with 5 classes, not 6.

Stalker: I'm surprised the WPIAL didn't stay at 4 classes. They consider their championships at Heinz Field the ultimate. I don't think they care whether they send teams to Hershey.

 

[new2pa]

Out here, if the separation would come to fruition, and they would do a 4+2 classification system, it would go back to almost the way it was before.

Remove PCC, North Catholic, OLSH, Shadyside and a smattering of other schools and you would be left with about 120 public schools playing football in the WPIAL.

The completion surely would be deeper and playoffs across all classes would be electric throughout.

 

[Gang $$ Green]

Not starting any rumors but if separation happened I wouldn’t mind seeing my alma mater Shanahan join the Catholic League. Pipe dream buy nothing like having an opportunity to play at Palestra for basketball championships plus being in arguably one of strongest leagues (Phila Catholic League) in PA.

Chestmont couple things. While you say Palestra in my best Jim Mora voice I’m thinking Palestra?? That’s a whole different ballgame. Bonner with pretty damn impressive team back who could have won it last year didn’t make Palestra. Shanahan huge leap of faith to ever see Palestra. As in ever..

Second for football. You are a graduate. When you went to school there did they have a football program? Sorry as an old school Catholic League guy I don’t think one old school Catholic League guy cares if Shanahan plays one game of football in our league. School went what 40 years without the sport. No thanks. Rather see league rot and die then take on schools who voluntarily didn’t play the sport for years. Don’t begrudge them playing football but Catholic League football, no sir. Chance to do that was years ago. Pound Sand now. Rather dress 40 free agents in green and gold of Tommy More. Feel same way about Devon, Holy Ghost.

 

[Stalker]

Not starting any rumors but if separation happened I wouldn’t mind seeing my alma mater Shanahan join the Catholic League. Pipe dream buy nothing like having an opportunity to play at Palestra for basketball championships plus being in arguably one of strongest leagues (Phila Catholic League) in PA.

Ches, wouldn't that be a heck of a cost increase? Probably a pipe dream as you mentioned. How about non-conf games with Lancaster Catholic and/or Berks Catholic? Not far plus costs lack frequency of all those trips to Phl.

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

Chestmont couple things. While you say Palestra in my best Jim Mora voice I’m thinking Palestra?? That’s a whole different ballgame. Bonner with pretty damn impressive team back who could have won it last year didn’t make Palestra. Shanahan huge leap of faith to ever see Palestra. As in ever..

Second for football. You are a graduate. When you went to school there did they have a football program? Sorry as an old school Catholic League guy I don’t think one old school Catholic League guy cares if Shanahan plays one game of football in our league. School went what 40 years without the sport. No thanks. Rather see league rot and die then take on schools who voluntarily didn’t play the sport for years. Don’t begrudge them playing football but Catholic League football, no sir. Chance to do that was years ago. Pound Sand now. Rather dress 40 free agents in green and gold of Tommy More. Feel same way about Devon, Holy Ghost.[/QUOTE}


Gang - I’m from Drexel Hill and my neighbors on twin... Joe Kilroy 82 played w Bonner greats Walt and Rodney Blake. His sister Sue Kilroy 84 Prendie was and All Catholic on her team. I get the Catholic League.. nothing even close in our leagues. The Central and Chrsmont. Agreed.. Shanahan would have to literally recruit football and basketball athletes to even get close to the Palestra. I moved to Coatesville in 73 and lived in the area until 95 minus my years at York College. Besides being a basketball town it has also cemented itself as a state football power. I’ve seen Walt Downing, Sherman Myers, Greg Blackwell, Derrick Morgan up through current team. Yes.. football matters and they have a coach at Shanahan is doing his best w piece meal/subpar CYO kids who don’t leave/get recruited to the local pubs who are much more estsblished and funded.

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

Ches, wouldn't that be a heck of a cost increase? Probably a pipe dream as you mentioned. How about non-conf games with Lancaster Catholic and/or Berks Catholic? Not far plus costs lack frequency of all those trips to Phl.

Shanahan is too far from the other PCL schools so yeah., won’t happen and transport costs and students travel time to sports would be too much. One off games w those non PCL schools would be ok. The Chesmont is a pretty damn good all sports league so as long as they’ll have Shanahan that’s a good situation.

 

[tulla]

Chestmont couple things. While you say Palestra in my best Jim Mora voice I’m thinking Palestra?? That’s a whole different ballgame. Bonner with pretty damn impressive team back who could have won it last year didn’t make Palestra. Shanahan huge leap of faith to ever see Palestra. As in ever..

Second for football. You are a graduate. When you went to school there did they have a football program? Sorry as an old school Catholic League guy I don’t think one old school Catholic League guy cares if Shanahan plays one game of football in our league. School went what 40 years without the sport. No thanks. Rather see league rot and die then take on schools who voluntarily didn’t play the sport for years. Don’t begrudge them playing football but Catholic League football, no sir. Chance to do that was years ago. Pound Sand now. Rather dress 40 free agents in green and gold of Tommy More. Feel same way about Devon, Holy Ghost.

I'm an old school Catholic League guy too who went to SJP at the same time Dougherty was the largest Catholic high school in the world. So things change. I couldn't have imagined a PCL without North Catholic, and we almost lost West Catholic and Bonner. So ,,,, with all the changes afoot I wouldn't be sure of anything more than five years out. But I agree with you on at least one thing--I can't get my head around Devon Prep being in the PCL.

 

[new2pa]

Anything happening with this?

 

[Aragorn]

I'm an old school Catholic League guy too who went to SJP at the same time Dougherty was the largest Catholic high school in the world. So things change. I couldn't have imagined a PCL without North Catholic, and we almost lost West Catholic and Bonner. So ,,,, with all the changes afoot I wouldn't be sure of anything more than five years out. But I agree with you on at least one thing--I can't get my head around Devon Prep being in the PCL.

But they vote not to except Holy Ghost Prep...what the heck???

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

But they vote not to except Holy Ghost Prep...what the heck???

I don’t get not allowing HGP in either. The school is top notch plus add very quality sports programs which only strengthens the PCL sports league

 

[new2pa]

From this article, it sounds like some kind of compromise has been reached. Bill will be public tomorrow. The politician sounds very optimistic it will pass.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...sylvania-aaron-bernstine/stories/201906100111

And

https://tribhssn.triblive.com/weste...n-to-separate-private-public-school-playoffs/

 

[yesman3]

From this article, it sounds like some kind of compromise has been reached. Bill will be public tomorrow. The politician sounds very optimistic it will pass.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...sylvania-aaron-bernstine/stories/201906100111

And

https://tribhssn.triblive.com/weste...n-to-separate-private-public-school-playoffs/

What we will probably see are two resultants..

1) The slow expiration of these threads debating this issue. It was a nice run, somewhat like a great Broadway play.

2) Teams like St. Joe Prep (the dominant Catholic League power until further notice), will probably start early season scheduling the odds-on favorite for Public League state honors.
That being said things don't always turn out as they're perceived...but if they do, winner claims to be mythical "undisputed" state champ, regardless of classifications. Never know, Western PA CL or PL teams could be front-runners on any given year?

Somewhat reminiscent to the ~late '90's/early '00's(years?) when CB West and SJP started hooking up in season openers. West was the dominant state football power, Prep was becoming same in the PCL.


Personally, I think the decision they made here was fine... just don't want to see us like New Jersey where they crown 'Avogadro's number' of state titlists.

Bill Bruford...

 

[CYOBALL1]

North Penn vs LaSalle had some incredible games in the state semi's .....

lasalles comeback victory at pw years ago was one of the best games I've ever seen.

 

[newman107]

Is anyone else watching this?
The SAME number of public schools and private schools will make the playoffs?! I get it for balancing the playoff schedule, but what percentage of private schools are going to make the playoffs? 50? 60? More?

 

[HSFballFan19]

What is the proposal?

 

[newman107]

They were very clear on two things. First, there will be an equal number of public schools and private schools in their respective playoffs. Second, the winners will be declared the public school state champion and the private school state champion and those two teams will play each other for the overall state championship.
I applaud that last part, but it makes the rest of it a little confusing. In District One there are 16 playoff teams. Where the f*** are we getting 16 private schools in D1 ?! Maybe there's something that I am missing.