Allentown Morning Call... nice Keith Groller article

[yesman3]

Respectful essentially non-partisan take/article... I liked his finish!!
Won't end the debate... nor should the debate end..

https://www.mcall.com/sports/varsit...4Pu6B4BISL8lUUdkUcwB3DbJeu_zSqAQPZmMeBpDcpxJQ

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

Respectful essentially non-partisan take/article... I liked his finish!!
Won't end the debate... nor should the debate end..

https://www.mcall.com/sports/varsit...4Pu6B4BISL8lUUdkUcwB3DbJeu_zSqAQPZmMeBpDcpxJQ

Pretty well written but he left out the transfer issue on the public side (Sorry but North Penn always seems to get a few and schools in Western PA). Let’s put all arguments on table. One thing for sure is the bitching will get much worse next week and week after if a Catholic School wins the state title.

 

[roxychknpoxy]

I read the comments as well. The irony of it is the idea that the PCL insisted on being in the PIAA. They were intensely lobbied to be in PIAA because it meant more exposure for the league. Prep has been playing intense schedules for 25 years, recently, Wood and LS have as well. That national visibility of these out of conference schedules was considered a benefit to PIAA, at least in their eyes.

 

[6daystosaturday]

Rox the PIAA pursued District 12. Especially for hoops. And underneath it all they honestly felt that their teams in hoops could beat the District 12 teams. And I don't consider Lower Merion or Chester "their" teams. What the PIAA didn't see coming was the Philadelphia football freight train. SJP, Lasalle, Wood, Tep, West C, now Egan. Bad enough they had PCC, Beca, BM Harrisburg to deal with. They didn't see this coming. And the Lehigh area didn't see this coming either. Having to go through District 12 is a killer for them. I don't think the genie can go back in the bottle. I wish I had a solution.

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

CL1,
He does "touch" on the public to public issue towards end of article.

Agree, more debate in the weeks to follow..

Kind of but not really. Just my read. Compared to other local columns it’s a little less inflaming

 

[tulla]

Kind of but not really. Just my read. Compared to other local columns it’s a little less inflaming

One of the people who commented on the article talked about public school coaches and ADs "losing athletes" to Catholic schools. In that comment lies much of the reason for the divide. Many people who complain about the mixing of Catholic or private and public schools see the players as really "belonging" to their local public school and school board. We saw this in the way North Penn people talked about McCray from the Prep last year. The Catholic/private schools see it more as a matter of choice.

 

[solfootballfan]

Didn’t PR beat SJP last year? I like Coatesville’s chances this year as well. I haven’t seen PR this year, but at 6A it appears competitive. Let’s at least wait a couple more weeks before they cryin.

 

[roxychknpoxy]

Didn’t PR beat SJP last year? I like Coatesville’s chances this year as well. I haven’t seen PR this year, but at 6A it appears competitive. Let’s at least wait a couple more weeks before they cryin.

PR will be a tall task for SJP. Everyone is an underdog to Coatesville.

 

[Salvucci]

I think both 6A and 5A Western semi's will come down to whoever plays better, like they should. Eastern semi's Cville a 2-3 score favorite and Manheim probably favored over UD, only a guess.

PR has the size and experience to compete with Prep and with 2 soph QB's playing each other, should be fun to watch. Hopefully the weather doesn't mess these games u too much Friday and Sat. Harrison to me is the X factor, his size, speed, and body control from what I've seen is well beyond his years. Interesting to see how PR matches up with him, or of they can get enough pressure to limit him.

 

[D1football22]

Respectfully disagree with Chesmont. Groller is legit as a sports journalist and was a good article overall. Nothing will and is gonna change anytime soon, nor should it. Let them play.. Groller is correct that in Philly pubs (open borders) and certain suburban Philly schools/PCL (i.e. NP and others, like Chesmont said..) the transfer issue is and has been "normal" for years. It is NOT normal in the rest of "Pennsyltucky". That is probably the issue here in the rest of the state of PA. Not so much in District 1/PCL/PPL, but in the rest of the Commonwealth. It is what it is..

 

[00shoe]

Open enrollment for public schools solves the problem.

 

[ChesmontLeague1]

Open enrollment for public schools solves the problem.

No schools mentioned here in Chester Co but I could think of one who would go out of business

 

[D1football22]

True... but in cleats and shoulder pads they are 4.0 with a 28 ACT.. haha! Hope you had a good Thanksgiving!!

 

[Fletchster1]

Open enrollment would decimate the real estate values in the areas surrounding crappy school districts.

 

[Burrs5]

Curious. So, say Farrell (1A), So. Columbia (2A), Middletown (3A), Penn Hills (5A), and Coatesville (6A) win state titles, will there still be complaining?

 

[RoverNation05]

Rox the PIAA pursued District 12. Especially for hoops. And underneath it all they honestly felt that their teams in hoops could beat the District 12 teams. And I don't consider Lower Merion or Chester "their" teams. What the PIAA didn't see coming was the Philadelphia football freight train. SJP, Lasalle, Wood, Tep, West C, now Egan. Bad enough they had PCC, Beca, BM Harrisburg to deal with. They didn't see this coming. And the Lehigh area didn't see this coming either. Having to go through District 12 is a killer for them. I don't think the genie can go back in the bottle. I wish I had a solution.

Keith is usually good on big picture issues like this.

You're absolutely right on the Lehigh Valley feeling walloped at 6A by the "Philly freight train." After only missing the eastern final twice from 1996-2008 (with state finalists in 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008), only 2015 Parkland has advanced past state quarterfinals. And while in the last three years, we haven't had that level of a team, I don't think the quality has been down for that entire 10 year stretch. 2009 Easton, 2011 Nazareth, 2013 Parkland, and 2014 Parkland were all legitimate finals contenders stopped by loaded PCL teams.

It's also not just football, and it's not just the PCL where things have gone sour. In wrestling, the Lehigh Valley broke things in the early 2000s. Easton, Northampton, and Nazareth definitely were the beneficiaries of big transfers to supplement already national caliber rosters. But then, when Alex Meade got blocked from going to Easton in 2008, you got real enforcement of public-to-public transfers. That didn't stop kids from changing schools, but has had the effect of making the only feasible transfer to Bethlehem Catholic because it was much harder to prove intent going public to private and there were no address shenanigans or moving needed. It's our fault for starting it, but Becahi (and now Notre Dame) have taken transfers to their logical endpoint in a way Easton, Northampton, and Nazareth couldn't.

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

Huck:

Probably not. But you can also have St Joes, Wood, any 4A, Scranton Prep, West Catholic, Sacred Heart win as well. I do not think either scenario is likely, but if the Publics win 4 of 6, I think most can accept and those numbers would fall in line statistically since about 2/3 of the PIAA is boundary schools. If the non boundary end up winning 3 or more, there will be complaining.

 

[6daystosaturday]

Rove, reread my post and "philly freight train" is a bit over the top. Glad you didn't take umbrage....I would understand. This years Freedom team was a really nice squad and I agree, the level of play is consistent with the state, outside of a few. Huck, it won't matter who wins because right after this we have hoops and it is just gonna get louder. Hell there was an article in Allentown today about the issue and a Parkland guy was bemoaning Steven's transfer to Roman in 2016. A pub sweep would be a temporary stay only on this forum.

 

[RoverNation05]

6days - no umbrage, it’s true. The PCL is better than us right now. I also think the PCL teams are better now than they were in that 2008-2012 range. And this Freedom team was fine, I actually think they are one of the weaker D11 champs this decade (the 2016 Parkland squad is probably at the bottom, then maybe 2018 Freedom). They weren’t totally unqualified to be there, but that’s a team that should lose in the state quarterfinal.

The Parkland guy complaining about Stevens raises a point I made earlier. That Parkland team in 2016 is the best hoops team in school history. They would have blown out the 2004 Parkland team that went to state finals. I get the frustration when you have a once in a generation group that loses to a school that can load up on Division I prospects every year, and supplement an already loaded roster with the best player in the state transferring in as a senior.

When Easton was at the height of their power in wrestling, we measured ourself by duals with Blair, because they were the best team in the country. But they also didn’t stand in the way of us winning state titles.

 

[RoverNation05]

One of the people who commented on the article talked about public school coaches and ADs "losing athletes" to Catholic schools. In that comment lies much of the reason for the divide. Many people who complain about the mixing of Catholic or private and public schools see the players as really "belonging" to their local public school and school board. We saw this in the way North Penn people talked about McCray from the Prep last year. The Catholic/private schools see it more as a matter of choice.

Do athletes "belong" to their hometown schools? Of course not. But speaking from an Easton perspective, it also feels different when you have kids like Julian Spigner or Dan Tavani or Jeff Dailly who were all All State level athletes who lived in Easton, but went to Catholic school their whole lives and then played at Notre Dame and Bethlehem Catholic. Or a kid like Brandan Chletsos, who lives in Easton and is going to wrestle at Notre Dame this year, but never wrestled in the Easton junior high program, didn't go to Easton's club. That is too bad for us, but is the way of the world.

But contrast that with the current Becahi running back. Easton schools his whole life. Started for the 8th grade junior high team as a 7th grader and was the feature back. Got bumped up to play freshman football as an 8th grader and had the offense built around him. Was being groomed to be the varsity running back as a freshman. Got taken in for all of the Easton football strength and conditioning stuff, speed camps, offseason workouts. Then, July before his freshman year, enrolls at Bethlehem Catholic. That's well within his rights, his family made the best decision for him. But I get feeling some kind of way about that if you're in the Easton football family. Then when Becahi a big “Hey Easton Thanks for Tavion” banner in front of the stands during the Easton game, they wonder why people are mad.

 

[Relayer]

Keith is usually good on big picture issues like this.

You're absolutely right on the Lehigh Valley feeling walloped at 6A by the "Philly freight train." After only missing the eastern final twice from 1996-2008 (with state finalists in 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008), only 2015 Parkland has advanced past state quarterfinals. And while in the last three years, we haven't had that level of a team, I don't think the quality has been down for that entire 10 year stretch. 2009 Easton, 2011 Nazareth, 2013 Parkland, and 2014 Parkland were all legitimate finals contenders stopped by loaded PCL teams.

It's also not just football, and it's not just the PCL where things have gone sour. In wrestling, the Lehigh Valley broke things in the early 2000s. Easton, Northampton, and Nazareth definitely were the beneficiaries of big transfers to supplement already national caliber rosters. But then, when Alex Meade got blocked from going to Easton in 2008, you got real enforcement of public-to-public transfers. That didn't stop kids from changing schools, but has had the effect of making the only feasible transfer to Bethlehem Catholic because it was much harder to prove intent going public to private and there were no address shenanigans or moving needed. It's our fault for starting it, but Becahi (and now Notre Dame) have taken transfers to their logical endpoint in a way Easton, Northampton, and Nazareth couldn't.

The irony Rover is 2008 was the first year the PCL played in the state playoffs and LaSalle could not even get out of D12, losing to George Washington. More ironic is Liberty spanking GW and going on to finally win the state title after 3 tries.

The PCL got better because they could now win state championships. A couple excellent coaches took over programs and the rest is history. All we heard before was how much winning the PCL/D12 meant more than anything. Now it's an afterthought. Wood wins another D12 title.....yawn. Same for Prep.

Remember when the PIAA put D12 on the meeting agenda to join 15 or so years ago? At the time Wood was not a good program. They were losing multiple Thanksgiving games to William Tennent, now one of the worst programs in D1. No way Brad Cashman and company thought this train could ever get on the tracks. Enter Steve Devlin and the big picture has turned forever.

 

[RoverNation05]

The irony Rover is 2008 was the first year the PCL played in the state playoffs and LaSalle could not even get out of D12, losing to George Washington. More ironic is Liberty spanking GW and going on to finally win the state title after 3 tries.

Oh I remember. In 2009, when Easton was slated to play LaSalle in quarters, I made a comment to an Easton assistant that this is a team that lost to GW last year, so they had to feel pretty good. He quickly corrected me, that they looked really good on tape and he had no idea how that happened, but they were expecting a war. Then, when the first two snaps of the game were Easton interception, Kadeem Pankey runs right by a corner for a 35 yard TD, then Easton forces a 3 and out, then Jashaad Gaddy took an inside reverse 70 yards for a TD and we all thought "here we go". Um, or not. Long time followers of my work know that I have not fully gotten over that game (nor will I).

[If we're power ranking historic painful Easton losses, it probably goes: (1) LaSalle 17-14, 2009; (2) CB West 6-3, 1993; (3) Parkland 13-10 (OT), 2014; (4) Neshaminy 21-14, 2004; (5) Bethlehem Catholic 39-14, 2001]

As an aside, that Liberty team was absolutely loaded. Anthony Gonzalez is the guy everybody remembers because he was AP Player of the Year, a quarterback, and had such a monster postseason. But wide receiver/safety Devin Street was taken in the 5th round of the NFL draft and played a couple years in the league. OT/DT Levi Brown spent a season on the Ravens roster, and Gonzalez and WR/CB Jarrod West also signed as UDFA's and kick around NFL preseason rosters and practice squads. Street is Pitt's all time leader in receptions and West is in the top 10 in Syracuse history in receiving yards, while Gonzalez was an two-time All ACC linebacker at Pitt. Brown was a captain and All Big East at Temple. Linebacker/tight end Horvin Latimer was an all conference linebacker at Duquense and running back Brandon Brader was an All PSAC running back at Lock Haven. Honestly, just for D11 pride, I wish that team played LaSalle instead of GW.