All-Catholics

[tulla]

Can anyone explain how Rayshad Wallace doesn't make first-team All-Catholic or how Solecki gets chosen over McCray for first-team QB?

I admit that I'm looking at the selections as a Prep guy, but I thought there was a good case for McCray as MVP.

 

[CYOBALL1]

All politic team! you vote for my guy, ill vote for yours.
Or in one coaches case, ill only vote for people who can take away votes from players that my kids are competing with.

 

[Burrs5]

Can anyone explain how Rayshad Wallace doesn't make first-team All-Catholic or how Solecki gets chosen over McCray for first-team QB?

I admit that I'm looking at the selections as a Prep guy, but I thought there was a good case for McCray as MVP.

Wallace not being a 1st-Team selection was surprising to see, but SJP did get two on the DL. IMO, Wallace has arguably been SJP's best defensive player. Or, at least in the top three (They have many good defensive players). He had five sacks vs Ryan the other night and 11.5 on the year. Rarely played in the second half of 4 of 6 league games.

Your other complaint is a little harder to defend. Now, if McCray was chosen 1st-Team I wouldn't have had an issue with it, but I thought Solecki had a really, really good season. It's not his fault, but McCray really didn't have the stats that a lot of coaches look for. Blowouts, short fields, and not as heavy a passing game as LS lead to modest numbers.

 

[tulla]

Wallace not being a 1st-Team selection was surprising to see, but SJP did get two on the DL. IMO, Wallace has arguably been SJP's best defensive player. Or, at least in the top three (They have many good defensive players). He had five sacks vs Ryan the other night and 11.5 on the year. Rarely played in the second half of 4 of 6 league games.

Your other complaint is a little harder to defend. Now, if McCray was chosen 1st-Team I wouldn't have had an issue with it, but I thought Solecki had a really, really good season. It's not his fault, but McCray really didn't have the stats that a lot of coaches look for. Blowouts, short fields, and not as heavy a passing game as LS lead to modest numbers.

My complaint is based on a comparison of Solecki's and McCray's performances in the only competitive league games each played in--against each other and against Wood. Comparing their stats in the other four games is pointless. Against Wood, McCray made a great throw to Sanders for a TD, had a big run late in the game, threw no interceptions, and generally played a very solid game. Against Wood, Solecki threw three interceptions. The stats suggest he did good things too. In the Prep-LaSalle game, Solecki had a very good first half except for throwing the huge interception. McCray had a very good game, including a great throw to Sanders for the first TD and his long run for the Prep's last TD. Again, he threw no interceptions. I can't understand how anyone who saw that game could say Solecki had the better game.

 

[Burrs5]

My complaint is based on a comparison of Solecki's and McCray's performances in the only competitive league games each played in--against each other and against Wood. Comparing their stats in the other four games is pointless. Against Wood, McCray made a great throw to Sanders for a TD, had a big run late in the game, threw no interceptions, and generally played a very solid game. Against Wood, Solecki threw three interceptions. The stats suggest he did good things too. In the Prep-LaSalle game, Solecki had a very good first half except for throwing the huge interception. McCray had a very good game, including a great throw to Sanders for the first TD and his long run for the Prep's last TD. Again, he threw no interceptions. I can't understand how anyone who saw that game could say Solecki had the better game.

I don't disagree with any that, but there are seven coaches voting. And the teams not involved in the games involving LS-SJP-AW aren't looking at it that way. What they see was that Solecki went 50-71-8-619 in the other four games, while McCray went 30-45-2-280. And as I mentioned there are multiple factors to why the numbers look this way.

 

[Gang $$ Green]

Cyo Ball nailed it. Process been flawed for years. Nomination process, own votes, opposing votes, strange positional groupings etc.

A lot of shoe ins over the years don’t get first team because their own coach doesn’t use an own vote figuring they will have enough only to have other coaches also not vote the player figuring their kid might sneak in. Been going on for 30 years. Not sure it’s exactly the same as when I knew it but there are more than a few unintended all Catholics floating around this world who garneted protect our guy throw away votes etc. Cyoball been closer to this recently so he or huck better versed on today.

 

[Burrs5]

I have the same gripe every year. I think having the vote three days after the RS is too soon. At minimum, they should have it after the PCL playoffs. Preferably, after the entire season ends. This way good players get to perform in big games in league, district, and possibly state playoffs. With all of it counting towards All-Catholic. But that's just me.

 

[Relayer]

Cyo Ball nailed it. Process been flawed for years. Nomination process, own votes, opposing votes, strange positional groupings etc.

A lot of shoe ins over the years don’t get first team because their own coach doesn’t use an own vote figuring they will have enough only to have other coaches also not vote the player figuring their kid might sneak in. Been going on for 30 years. Not sure it’s exactly the same as when I knew it but there are more than a few unintended all Catholics floating around this world who garneted protect our guy throw away votes etc. Cyoball been closer to this recently so he or huck better versed on today.

I will write a recommendation right now for Gang Green to become the next official moderator of this forum. I will second Huck to be his right hand man. Don't worry, I will make sure you both get paid vacations when needed.

 

[btm2070]

Another problem is most Coaches nominate ALL their kids. I'm sure maybe in Wallace case he lost votes to his own teammates which hurts his own vote count. Wallace is a first teamer no question about it!

 

[OwlRB09]

In the Blue Division of course NG gets slighted big time. But with a grain of salt the coaches play spoiled kid I’m taking my ball and going home. No way doesn’t the NG defense not have 1st team players outside of Barmore. Romello Edwards is hands down the best CB in the division.

But hey Fluck did a good job of getting the club to vote his players in a majority of the selections. WC QB makes 1st team? I watched their game versus Goretti and Egan. He has a very limited skill set. He’s somewhat of an athlete but not a 1st team QB. The NG QB outplayed him and delivered in every game I’ve seen.

 

[HSFballFan19]

Owl, I have no dog in this fight. Every single one of your posts is defending or promoting NG and that's great. But, why not just keep it at that? After you do that, you always seem to bash WC, Fluck, or some other PCL team/coach. Do you get some sort of satisfaction out of bashing these other programs/coaches that dedicate a ton of time to the betterment of young adults? I understand and respect that you are a NG/Albie supporter and congrats on a terrific season so far. I sincerely mean that and I'm happy for those kids and program. I commend them on a terrific job thus far. But, can't you just keep your posts to defending/supporting them instead of bashing other teams/coaches? Again, I cannot stress enough that I am happy for their success and hope it continues beyond this year. I just wish you'd speak about other programs amicably.

 

[ForWhoForWhat]

Sad case that a team that is last in the league has more All Catholic players than the team that’s first in the league. It’s like Knicks having more All Star players than the Warriors or the Browns having more All Pro players than the Patriots. How is a kid with a college offer from basically every SEC college program not voted MVP? Did they see his film?
Hey, it’s all good. I say next year, let the players vote. They know more than the Coaches, based on their twitter feeds, they can’t even believe what happen. Great season though, kids are having fun and catching memories that will last a life time.

 

[RCH13co18]

These list are populated by the powers of each conference. If they decide to let your player in be lucky. They really have no clue. It's no way a Carroll kid makes first team WR and they run the WingT.

 

[RCH13co18]

I think there's a more realistic team that comes out soon from guys that actually attended games.

 

[Run4daylight]

Typical politics by the powers that be.....,

 

[Burrs5]

This type of stuff has been happening for years. It's not unique to this season.

Suggesting that Fluck influenced other coaches (In so many words) to vote for his players is ridiculous. For the most part, the WC program has dominated their league over the last decade-plus and typically has been on the short end of this stuff in most years. An indisputable fact.

I will add that we would be very naive if we didn't think that some guys may have looked the other way or chose a different player other than a NG player in a close or somewhat close decision. Right or wrong, it's human nature when you consider how quickly they went from the doormats to top of the league and in the manner that it happened. I don't think there was a conspiracy here, but internally it wouldn't surprise me if individuals had that thought pass thru their minds before checking one box or the other.

 

[ForWhoForWhat]

If that’s the case Huck, then their selections were not Just or valid. If they bypass a kid because his school closed forcing his parents to send him to another school (Goretti) then every post of concern in this blog is on point and accurate. As you stated Huck, Coaches have the ability to vote unfair and as you indicated, it’s been going on for years. Let the kids vote just like the NFL and the NBA allows the players to vote. Huck, either it’s fair or it’s not.

 

[Run4daylight]

This type of stuff has been happening for years. It's not unique to this season.

Suggesting that Fluck influenced other coaches (In so many words) to vote for his players is ridiculous. For the most part, the WC program has dominated their league over the last decade-plus and typically has been on the short end of this stuff in most years. An indisputable fact.

I will add that we would be very naive if we didn't think that some guys may have looked the other way or chose a different player other than a NG player in a close or somewhat close decision. Right or wrong, it's human nature when you consider how quickly they went from the doormats to top of the league and in the manner that it happened. I don't think there was a conspiracy here, but internally it wouldn't surprise me if individuals had that thought pass thru their minds before checking one box or the other.

You just contradicted yourself.....

 

[BucksFB]

Guys

I think everyone agrees and is saying the same thing, this process is not perfect by any means and never has been, especially this season in the Red division with Prep and Wood starters out at the half for 4 of the 6 games totally skews the stats which is mostly what drives this. Just worry about winning, TEAM is more important, and SEPA could have a banner year in Hershey. I'm pulling for NG, if they can get to Hershey and win it all, that will be much more rewarding than an individual award.

 

[6daystosaturday]

I see three Judge kids, one Roman kid, 2 Ryan kids, and a Carroll kid. That is out of 59 spots. Seems like a statement to me. Question is who is making the statement. Blue seems more distributed, although McDevitt seems over represented for their final record. I haven't seen enough games to offer a truly qualified observation on players, but the numbers do seem to tell a story.

 

[Burrs5]

If that’s the case Huck, then their selections were not Just or valid. If they bypass a kid because his school closed forcing his parents to send him to another school (Goretti) then every post of concern in this blog is on point and accurate. As you stated Huck, Coaches have the ability to vote unfair and as you indicated, it’s been going on for years. So you can’t defend Fluck (because he’s been involved in this process for years) then say it’s been going on for years while informing us to not be naive. Passive aggression and subliminal jabs at its best. Let the kids vote just like the NFL and the NBA allows the players to vote.

I disagree that every part of every post is on point and accurate. Pinning it on one specific coach isn't accurate, especially when said coach has been on the receiving end of such matters over time.

Right or wrong, it's human nature for one to protect or look after their own. When I say it's been going on for years, it's not directed at one coach or one league, but basically everywhere. I say it in a general sense.

The kids aren't ever voting. Zero chance. NFL players are adults. I do think that if they pushed the vote out further into the season that it would help create a clearer picture on who the best and most deserving players are.

 

[Burrs5]

You just contradicted yourself.....

How so?

I acknowledged that politicking does happen. Either verbally or not. I choose to believe it's more of an internal, individual thing, but whatever. However, it's not exclusive to just the PCL, but everywhere, IMO.

I get it basically NG supporters are upset. Well, join the club. Your not the first and won't be the last to feel slighted. This is not unique to them.

 

[Run4daylight]

Its time somebody Else becomes the voice of High School Sports

How so?

I acknowledged that politicking does happen. Either verbally or not. I choose to believe it's more of an internal, individual thing, but whatever. However, it's not exclusive to just the PCL, but everywhere, IMO.

I get it basically NG supporters are upset. Well, join the club. Your not the first and won't be the last to feel slighted. This is not unique to them.

Nah, Huck you justified adults using prejudice/bias when selecting children for specific teams. And if you are ok with that practice sir, You are truly part of the problem...

 

[Run4daylight]

How so?

I acknowledged that politicking does happen. Either verbally or not. I choose to believe it's more of an internal, individual thing, but whatever. However, it's not exclusive to just the PCL, but everywhere, IMO.

I get it basically NG supporters are upset. Well, join the club. Your not the first and won't be the last to feel slighted. This is not unique to them.

And please don't lump me in with NG...

 

[Burrs5]

Its time somebody Else becomes the voice of High School Sports



Nah, Huck you justified adults using prejudice/bias when selecting children for specific teams. And if you are ok with that practice sir, You are truly part of the problem...

First, spare me with the "children" label. They're young men, most who are 17 or 18. That catch phrase is so stale anymore.

Second, I justified nothing. I acknowledged that the system is in some ways broken and that I think it can be improved. Still, at the end of the day it's only HS sports and on the importance scale not really near the top of the list of this thing we call life.

Third, I still enjoy how people get to use my name in conversation, but they get to hide behind their screen names. This was always one of the best parts of this board. Knowing I could offer up opinions outside of a dark, isolated, you can't see me place. Good job, Burrs....

 

[Burrs5]

And please don't lump me in with NG...

No problem.

 

[TDjones22]

All Catholics are a Joke, always were always will be. Who on Ryan, Roman, Judge, Carroll deserved it though? Ruffin 100% did, Joseph had a decent year, Cooper didn't do enough for Roman, why wasn't Griffin from Roman All Catholic if Cooper was? He had more yards rushing/receiving/catches/TD's, how does that kid feel today? Some of the kids i see that are RB's who were All-Catholic all have 300 yards besides Weldon (504) so 7 of 8 All Catholics Red had very little, 1 Red RB is in the top 20 in the City in Rushing and it's Peoples who is very good with 956. Just a note, Jefferson for Ryan 1st team RB had a AVERAGE OF 37.5 yards a game.......... 37.5 i repeat and was 1st team, so my point it is a joke.

 

[RCH13co18]

All Catholics are a Joke, always were always will be. Who on Ryan, Roman, Judge, Carroll deserved it though? Ruffin 100% did, Joseph had a decent year, Cooper didn't do enough for Roman, why wasn't Griffin from Roman All Catholic if Cooper was? He had more yards rushing/receiving/catches/TD's, how does that kid feel today? Some of the kids i see that are RB's who were All-Catholic all have 300 yards besides Weldon (504) so 7 of 8 All Catholics Red had very little, 1 Red RB is in the top 20 in the City in Rushing and it's Peoples who is very good with 956. Just a note, Jefferson for Ryan 1st team RB had a AVERAGE OF 37.5 yards a game.......... 37.5 i repeat and was 1st team, so my point it is a joke.

I was with you until you said Ruffin 100%. He has horrible numbers and play on an 0-6 team in the conference. He was on the team last year and I think they just gave it to him by default. Did nothing against the better teams in the league. I'm all for the top teams filling out the list. Carroll Judge and Roman shouldn't be mad for lack of consideration.

 

[TDjones22]

Horrible Numbers compared to who? Just curious who led the PCL in Receiving TDs this year?

Ruffin 395 Rushing which is 3rd in PCL Red & 2 TDs, 334 receiving 9TDs (1st), 26 Catches, 3INTs on a Terrible Team he most certainly deserves it. He had 4-110 TD vs Wood.

 

[RCH13co18]

Horrible Numbers compared to who? Just curious who led the PCL in Receiving TDs this year?

Ruffin 395 Rushing which is 3rd in PCL Red & 2 TDs, 334 receiving 9TDs (1st), 26 Catches, 3INTs on a Terrible Team he most certainly deserves it. He had 4-110 TD vs Wood.

He went for WR..... I can almost guarantee that Marvin II had better numbers at lasalle. He had 9 tds receiving against who? I thought the coaches of red select these players. Those stats against wood came off one catch at a time where it was 42-0 scrub minutes don't count.

 

[TDjones22]

Marvin 18-240 5TDs so no they were not better so your guarantee is false. I know he went for WR hence the 9TDs. He had Td's vs everybody but Lasalle, Prep, Roman. Who cares they are still stats. Coaches of RED do select the players and they probably based it off numbers like all the others.

 

[RCH13co18]

Marvin 18-240 5TDs so no they were not better so your guarantee is false. I know he went for WR hence the 9TDs. He had Td's vs everybody but Lasalle, Prep, Roman. Who cares they are still stats. Coaches of RED do select the players and they probably based it off numbers like all the others.

We know where the bulk of those numbers came from ...... be real they didn't come from Red. Stats are Stats I guess.

 

[TDjones22]

Ya well we don't get to vote so we have no say.

Have fun at your playoff game Friday night. La Salle 45-0. Save your ticket money. 2-8 and in the Playoffs is a Joke. Good Luck with Roxborough, Hopefully Murphs last game if they are lucky

 

[RCH13co18]

Ya well we don't get to vote so we have no say.

Have fun at your playoff game Friday night. La Salle 45-0. Save your ticket money. 2-8 and in the Playoffs is a Joke. Good Luck with Roxborough, Hopefully Murphs last game if they are lucky

Thanks for the well wishes. Wait one of those wins came from beating the team that......... you know what never mind. Kudos

 

[Burrs5]

Sometimes you have to look past the numbers. A kid like Ruffin is a good high school football player, who I believe deserved to be recognized in some area. Sometimes a player's overall performance is affected by the overall team around him. It's very possible that very good individuals exist on team's that don't compile the best record. A kid like Ruffin could play on the better teams in that league, IMO.

Also, another reason to push the vote to later in the year. There are more games to be played, there are bigger games to be played, there are more stats to be had. An entire season should be considered. Most teams are going to play anywhere from 2-6 additional games from this point.

 

[btm2070]

This years voting for All-Catholic was done prior to last nights meeting. Ties, MVP, and Coach of year was decided last night.

 

[Burrs5]

This years voting for All-Catholic was done prior to last nights meeting. Ties, MVP, and Coach of year was decided last night.

So, it's possible that votes were submitted, tabulated, or whatever before the last league was played? If so, then not only are we not pushing the vote forward, but instead going backwards.

 

[tulla]

So, it's possible that votes were submitted, tabulated, or whatever before the last league was played? If so, then not only are we not pushing the vote forward, but instead going backwards.

I'm feeling guilty for starting the thread. In the big picture, the all-Catholic teams (Red and Blue) aren't really worth thinking--or arguing--about. At least in the Red Division, the imbalance between the teams at the top and the teams at the bottom makes it almost impossible to compare players fairly. The games decided in the first quarter mean that some starters play only half-games and players on the weak teams pad their stats (not that that's their intention) against what are essentially JV players. And good players on weak teams get little notice. If you're a receiver, it doesn't help that your QB has no time to throw the ball downfield. I agree with Huck that if you're going to vote for All-Catholic teams you should wait till the end of the season, though that would further disadvantage players from weak teams. And just to stir the pot, I'll add that it struck me a few years ago that in 2013 Chris Martin, in his senior year, was a more valuable player to his team (particularly as evidenced in the two LaSalle-Prep games that year) than Kyle Shurmur--though there was no way that was ever going to be reflected in the All-Catholic vote. Of course, I am not unbiased.

 

[Gang $$ Green]

I feel like I write this each year but I’ll write again. Been involved in this process many times in past. I know a lot of the audience on here can be parents or even kids. Relatives get worked up over all catholic which I understand. As I have stated in the past it’s a great honor but also has weight across wide area. It’s one of the few things where you can go into a tap room 35 years later 30 miles from your house somebody brings up all catholic and it translates across borders.

That said it’s classically flawed. Coaches nominate kids. There aren’t limitations on the ballot but you can bet that in old north south format in the past if a 1-6 team nominated too many guys it was noticed. You nominated a select few and tried not to split your votes. So only in rarest cases did you nominate say four olinemen. You got four own votes on each side of ball. Sometimes if you thought your best guy was shoe in you might withhold your vote and give it to your fifth guy.

Other coaches fill out a ballot with ex number of guys. In a positional group you might vote for best couple guys and then vote for guys you might think won’t beat your guys out for a spot. It created more than one occasion where multiple teams vote for the same “straw man” thinking the same thing and you get a kid who should not be nominated elected.

Meetings were to break ties and vote for mvps. Back in the day it was an open secret that certain coaches would not vote for certain teams players due to grudges etc.

Was involved in one program where kids voted. That typically was a dam good ballot where kids who played well against you were represented. Second program was coaches picking it and more thoughtful horse trading. Suffice it to say program two got double our guys elected easily.

Things really went off the rails when it started to get leaked who was on the ballot. Used to be gentlemen’s agreement not to discuss. You almost never saw a soph or freshmen. If you had a senior and junior close you nominated the senior. Now parents here kid wasn’t nominated and go nuts.

Brings me to my last point. There is no doubt these teams have biases. In NG case while Albie and these kids weren’t there last year don’t think for a minute that the last year fast one of wanting to cancel league games but play on Thanksgiving went unnoticed. The fact that 18 of the 22 starters weren’t there last year also a factor.

To those who will say that is sticking it to kids unfairly I can see your point. A lot of great four years guys over the years have gotten short end of the stick as well. One thing is certain. These teams have ZERO bearing on anything college related. None. Zilch. So if you are a disgruntled parent who thinks your so is going to Stroudsburg now instead of Clemson because he was honorable mention rather than first team you are dead wrong. These college guys get paid to get that right. This is for bragging rights only.

 

[Franklinfield2]

So, it's possible that votes were submitted, tabulated, or whatever before the last league was played? If so, then not only are we not pushing the vote forward, but instead going backwards.

I'm still pissed I was only a 2nd team All-Catholic selection. Anybody have Silary's cell number? I'm gonna crank call him every night for a month.