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Why does District 12 only play a 9 game regular season?

Relayer

Relayer

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Jun 18, 2001
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Yet everyone else in eastern PA plays a 10 game regular season.

Is everyone in D12 proud that a winless Roman team (0-9) actually qualifies for the playoffs, that's beyond embarrassing. There might be 7-3 teams in District 1 that won't qualify. The entire regular season is meaningless in the PCL.
 
Relayer said:
Yet everyone else in eastern PA plays a 10 game regular season.

Is everyone in D12 proud that a winless Roman team (0-9) actually qualifies for the playoffs, that's beyond embarrassing. There might be 7-3 teams in District 1 that won't qualify. The entire regular season is meaningless in the PCL.
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This is the first time a winless team has made the 4A PCL playoffs. I'd prefer to see only the top two of the four teams in the playoffs, but that would mean every team finding one more out-of-league game, which might be very difficult.

As for the regular season games being meaningless, that's only true if your sole focus is making the playoffs. Prep-LaSalle is never meaningless and Judge certainly didn't seem to approach last week's game against the Prep as meaningless. Same for LaSalle-Wood. And lots of the games the teams play against non-PCL opponents are very meaningful unless you're judging everything in PIAA terms. SJP doesn't go to Louisiana or up to North Jersey to play a meaningless game. I can see from a District 1 perspective that it it seems ridiculous that a team that goes 7-3 doesn't make the playoffs. It also may be uncomfortable to see an undefeated or one-loss District 1 champion get badly beaten by a three-loss District 12 champion inn the state semifinal, something that has happened.
 
Well said Tulla - I guess it depends it what you consider meaningless. Roman is having a tough year, but most years, would be in top of District 1.

I can say this, since PIAA is moving to 6 classifications, I'm sure ANY PCL team would welcome a district 1 game. And, under the circumstances, it may come down to that. Watch what you ask for ... PIAA wanted the PCL and, well, it's been interesting.

Maybe District 1 needs more meaningful games and should schedule PCL more in their regular season regardless of points. Respect to NP for doing it routinely.
 
Who in D1 needs more meaningful games? Take the case of both Rocks. CRN has Perk Valley and Pennsbury non-league and CRS has both Pennsbury and Neshaminy. Each is playing for their playoff lives next week.
 
Relayer said:
Who in D1 needs more meaningful games? Take the case of both Rocks. CRN has Perk Valley and Pennsbury non-league and CRS has both Pennsbury and Neshaminy. Each is playing for their playoff lives next week.
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Relayer,
I love you , you know that, even Peter Banks knew that, RIP...

I'll tell you who....Upper Dublin. They knew 2 yrs. ago this would be their year. If they do run the table and get beat badly in semi, then one could argue?

btw...Are the Rock's even meaningful??...... oh Lord, my professional abatement tax just went up for saying that!
 
Relayer said:
Who in D1 needs more meaningful games? Take the case of both Rocks. CRN has Perk Valley and Pennsbury non-league and CRS has both Pennsbury and Neshaminy. Each is playing for their playoff lives next week.
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I agree those games are meaningful because every game District 1 teams play counts in determining their PIAA playoff eligibility and ranking. That doesn't make all the regular season games PCL teams play meaningless.

I'll use an example from basketball to illustrate the different perspectives. A few years ago SJP and Neumann-Goretti played for the Catholic League Championship. Both teams were moving on the PIAA playoffs because SJP was 4A and NG was 3A. I'm next to certain that SJP people would rather have won that game against NG and lost in, say, the state quarterfinal than to have won the state championship and lost to NG. (And they did lose to NG and lost to Chester in the state semi.)

This is not to say that I agree it makes sense for a team that's 0-9 to make any kind of football playoffs. As I said earlier in this thread, I'd be in favor of having just two PCL 4A teams make the playoffs and of having more games between PCL teams and, say, InterAC or District 1 teams, but I'm not sure how easy that would be. especially mid- and late season.
 
IMHO.... Roman would have a winning record (even this year) if playing in the Suburban Conference. Perhaps even ~7-2,.....maybe 6-3?
 
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yesman3 said:
Relayer,
I love you , you know that, even Peter Banks knew that, RIP...

btw...Are the Rock's even meaningful??...... oh Lord, my professional abatement tax just went up for saying that!
Click to expand...

yesman3 said:
IMHO.... Roman would have a winning record (even this year) if playing in the Suburban Conference. Perhaps even ~7-2,.....maybe 6-3?
Click to expand...

Ha!! Thanks bro, I probably made Peter roll over in his grave. This board has been pretty quiet, time to get the folks fired up for the post-season.

Certainly in the American Conference for Roman, one reason an overrated P-W makes the playoffs pretty consistently. It's a weak conference. Some years for the Continental, but it's pretty solid this season.

I've been on Quakertown all year about their schedule. At least UD played Del Val who is usually a good program in D2, and who thought Abington would be 1-8? Rock South made the district semis in consecutive years so they have been relevant recently. North has arguably the top player in SE PA and showed Friday that "on any given day". Gotta stay positive on the alma-mater, although they challenge my sanity every week.

After this week, I'll be curios how many 6-4, 7-3 teams from across the state don't make the playoffs. I will bet you will find most of these reams in District 1. It's not only D12 that has this problem. Too many playoff spots for not enough good teams across the state.

Going forward what's going to happen next year with 6 classes? I would like to see super-regionals, but that might be a pipe dream.

tulla, your points are always valid. Many schools in D1 won't play NP, hence one reason NP does play the PCL. If schools won't play NP, they definitely won't schedule the PCL. There shouldn't be any excuses in the SOL, everyone needs 3 non-league games. I know the Central League is always locked into that league schedule. There is a big imbalance with scheduling across D1. Next year the SOL realigns again for the millionth time, so all the schedules change again.
 
Does the PCL playoff format change next year with 2 extra classes ? For example , only 2 5a teams I believe -Ryan and Wood. They could both go 0-9 and play for a championship
 
I think what you may see from the PCL is a return to the old Red and Blue divisions with point systems to determine state playoff standings. The PPL may do something similar. Does anyone really want to see a Pub 3A game of Imhotep v Future? God please no.
 
Another issue next year is the choice of only having one scrimmage and starting the season a week early. The PIAA cut the season short by one week so districts need to decide either to start early or only play a 9 game regular season. In the case of D12, would they play the two scrimmages and only have an 8 game regular season, keeping a bye week before playoffs? I realize scheduling non-league can't be easy for the likes of SJP and LaSalle. Not many schools around here are lining up to play them.
 
Relayer -

Let me first remove the hook from my gill ... Now, that's the point, the PCL in general would appreciate and need a game or two if offered especially with 6 classes. I've been at a number of games and it's been a topic. Like exr said, if PCL is to preserve their league, they will need a solution. The obvious is Red/Blue with Red being Judge, Wood, Roman, LS and SJP with possible play up candidate. It will be interesting. If not, PIAA will need to step in and arrange games on rotation with SOL.

Time will tell.
 
Solid chance of two PCL leagues next year. Similar to Red/Blue. Think SJP, LS, FJ, RC, AW, and AR in one league and the other schools in the other league. This would certainly help with scheduling. Whether to forgo 2nd scrimmage will be discussed. Look for playoffs within class only. Meaning, AW/AR play for 5A spot. Depending on how things shake out you might have all four 6A teams play in the semifinals, then a final for that class. Red/Blue champs will be crowned via RS standings. Nothing official, but it could be something like this.

PCL playoffs have to be like this to fill weeks, especially since neither of the leagues in D12 want to do away with their league playoffs.
 
Did you D12 guys see how much fun we had this weekend with the plethora of big games in District 1? Best regular season weekend in recent memory. Yea, I realize no one will beat the Prep, but anyone who pays money to watch SJP mercy rule an 0-9 Roman team next week is a damn fool.

BTW, I'm sure Coatesville was thrilled playing Roman this season. They did not qualify at 7-3 and got squat with bonus points for that win. But I know, Roman would win every league in D1.
 
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Just wanted to wake everyone up. Let the real fun begin this week. Now to decide on which games to attend. I can tell you it won't be PW DT-East. I would be a damn fool to spend money watching that :cool:
 
If you could get the powers in SE PA to work it like the WPIAL, having AAAA's align with AAAAs, forming the EPIAL, you wouldn't have a 0-10 Roman in the mix, or any 0-10 team. You'd get losing teams but nothing that pronounced. Right, good luck on that one, but others have done it so the template is there, 4, 6 classes, whatever. Actually, everyone except the PCL has merged with public schools instead of being separate in District 3, 7, 10, 11....everywhere but here in SE PA? What did they give up that this archdiocese (those in it) won't?

Or you could just go with the present district alignment taking the top 2-3 quads, probably 3 from each division-conference, giving meaning to the regular season others have mentioned. Of course tie breakers would be needed. This would provide for the conf-div winner to get the higher seed, followed by the runner up and so forth, disallowing a CB East scenario.

With the new format, I'd like seeing the big schools in the 6 class system play for the area- district-whatever title. Both advance regardless of outcome since they won their classification. Then you'd answer the age old question "who's better"......some egs....Manheim Central/McDevitt vs Central Dauphin/Wilson, Coatesville/Pennsbury vs Academy Park/Pottsgrove, Beca/Central Catholic vs Parkland/Easton, Pine Rich/Pitt CC vs Central Val/West A. It would be fun!
 
Relayer said:
Did you D12 guys see how much fun we had this weekend with the plethora of big games in District 1? Best regular season weekend in recent memory. Yea, I realize no one will beat the Prep, but anyone who pays money to watch SJP mercy rule an 0-9 Roman team next week is a damn fool.

BTW, I'm sure Coatesville was thrilled playing Roman this season. They did not qualify at 7-3 and got squat with bonus points for that win. But I know, Roman would win every league in D1.
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Not every game my brother, but Roman would not go 0-9 in the Suburban conference. I'm willing to bet my entire Roger Dean collection on that! :D

btw....I wouldn't pay $ to see that either, unless was a parent/family, and that may be a push..
 
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No way I'm taking that bet! I shouldn't pick on Roman, but rather the system. There are 20 other teams in 4A who qualified with 4 or more losses from across the state.

The only thing better than playoff football these next few weeks would be this.

http://cruisetotheedge.com/

Stalk, a super subregional would be cool. Seeing different match-ups is what makes the playoffs great.
 
Relayer said:
No way I'm taking that bet! I shouldn't pick on Roman, but rather the system. There are 20 other teams in 4A who qualified with 4 or more losses from across the state.

The only thing better than playoff football these next few weeks would be this.

http://cruisetotheedge.com/

Stalk, a super subregional would be cool. Seeing different match-ups is what makes the playoffs great.
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Relayer,
I was giving it "some" consideration as it seemed interesting, but never been on a cruise before and just can't come to grips with J.A. not fronting them. Almost seems sacrilegious to me..
If it was just them performing each night with something resembling the "classic line-up" (RIP Fish), I might have jumped all over that?

Looking forward to the next few weeks of football as well. I don't think the 4A title is a given, and the 3A should be fantastic, starting with D12 title game.

btw.... you realize it's probably just you and lilromeo who knows what the hell we're talking about on some of our posts/dialogue. o_O
 
Thought about going on the same cruise two years ago. Carl Palmer and Steve Hackett were among others on board. Now that Chris is gone it will never be the same. Still hold out hope the Jon and Rick come back and play with the band, even if it's for only one night. I get the feeling Mr. Howe is 100% in charge these days of what goes on.
 
How about next year the top 8 teams from D12 in each class play the top 8 in D1 in a crossover game for week 1? Which district do you think would back away from that first?
 
Relayer said:
Another issue next year is the choice of only having one scrimmage and starting the season a week early. The PIAA cut the season short by one week so districts need to decide either to start early or only play a 9 game regular season. In the case of D12, would they play the two scrimmages and only have an 8 game regular season, keeping a bye week before playoffs? I realize scheduling non-league can't be easy for the likes of SJP and LaSalle. Not many schools around here are lining up to play them.
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Seems like the PIAA agreed with the D12 shorter season; playing a championship game near Christmas is just ridiculous.

Send all those D1 "powers' down and see how well they do against the PCL; I think you know the answer.
 
The PCL is in 2 categories: The Haves= Prep, lasalle, wood, and the HAVE NOTS= Everyone else. Interac stock is rising, PCL declining. We will continue to see this, outside of those three mentioned, for the entire catholic league. Quickly adding up their wins and losses I found the following: The HAVES, as I call them, were 4-0 vs PA public schools and 2-1 vs Interac schools. The HAVE NOTS were a combined 5-11 vs Public Schools this year and 2-5 vs Interac Schools. The Interac schools are recruiting everywhere (I've seen more Interac schools at CYO and weight football games than PCL schools this year than ever before), and have really put a larger focus on sports than decades past, especially in football. This spells doom for PCL schools outside of prep, lasalle and wood.
 
Just did a quick check and D1 did very will going 22-16 against D12 according to Ted Silary's site. Would love to see some sort of cross over week at the beginning of the season to get a feel for how the teams that finished well in each district the prior year are now. Imagine a week one schedule of:
4A
Dtown East v SJ Prep
Dtown West v LaSalle
Upper Dublin v NE
Spring-Ford v Simon Gratz

3A
Academy Park v Imhotep
Upper Moreland v Wood
Pottsgrove v Ryan

2A
New Hope-Solebury v Prep Charter
Springfield (M) v West Catholic

A
Jenkintown v McDevitt
 
delcofootball1 said:
The PCL is in 2 categories: The Haves= Prep, lasalle, wood, and the HAVE NOTS= Everyone else. Interac stock is rising, PCL declining. We will continue to see this, outside of those three mentioned, for the entire catholic league. Quickly adding up their wins and losses I found the following: The HAVES, as I call them, were 4-0 vs PA public schools and 2-1 vs Interac schools. The HAVE NOTS were a combined 5-11 vs Public Schools this year and 2-5 vs Interac Schools. The Interac schools are recruiting everywhere (I've seen more Interac schools at CYO and weight football games than PCL schools this year than ever before), and have really put a larger focus on sports than decades past, especially in football. This spells doom for PCL schools outside of prep, lasalle and wood.
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I agree with you about the Inter Ac rising due to their aggressive recruiting efforts. In addition to the PCL haves you pointed out ,IMO you can add Judge , add IMHOTEP to the recruiting impact issue.
 
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Why change a good thing? DWest vs DEast had 10 K last weekend. PV-Spring-Ford was close to that number Assume Qtown -CB East was packed. Same with Pennsbury-Neshaminy. The issue is not playing PCL teams,... The issue is playing meaningful crossover games in D1. Times have changed. There are enough good teams and programs in D1 to do that. Maybe not as good as the Big 3 overall, but meaningful games and great atmospheres and attendance. That is what HS football is all about!!! The PCL teams don't travel well outside of the Big 3. Let them play each other and the winner of D1 will meet them in December in 4A.
 
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D1football22 said:
Why change a good thing? DWest vs DEast had 10 K last weekend. PV-Spring-Ford was close to that number Assume Qtown -CB East was packed. Same with Pennsbury-Neshaminy. The issue is not playing PCL teams,... The issue is playing meaningful crossover games in D1. Times have changed. There are enough good teams and programs in D1 to do that. Maybe not as good as the Big 3 overall, but meaningful games and great atmospheres and attendance. That is what HS football is all about!!! The PCL teams don't travel well outside of the Big 3. Let them play each other and the winner of D1 will meet them in December in 4A.
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D1,
I agree, why change a good thing? District 1 playoffs have been an exciting time and should be preserved, IMO.
With much talk about the 4A PCL set-up and how undeserving this year's Roman squad is to enter a "playoff" format (that "discussion" ends Fri. night), I've pondered what PIAA alternatives could/would be?
What if they blended 4A PCL top 2 these last few years with remainder of District 1, and if they put them on opposite sides of the playoff brackets. Who in District 1 would have enjoyed that probable outcome? The whole open/closed border argument would have proliferated.

District 1 needs a champion and a spot in the State semi's seems reasonable under the current state of affairs that is PA high school football, considering the size of the district et. al. Not unlike the current PIAA lacrosse format that essentially guarantees a D1 and D12 champion/representative a spot in the State semi's as they encompass the most powerful teams in the Commonwealth (usually and historically!!). FYI.. a lot of years, SJP was arguably the 2nd best PIAA lax team in the State, but couldn't win the D12 championship game to further qualify.

Ptown,
Guess we'll see about the Upper Dublin comment, should be interesting..
 
D1football22 said:
Why change a good thing? DWest vs DEast had 10 K last weekend. PV-Spring-Ford was close to that number Assume Qtown -CB East was packed. Same with Pennsbury-Neshaminy. The issue is not playing PCL teams,... The issue is playing meaningful crossover games in D1. Times have changed. There are enough good teams and programs in D1 to do that. Maybe not as good as the Big 3 overall, but meaningful games and great atmospheres and attendance. That is what HS football is all about!!! The PCL teams don't travel well outside of the Big 3. Let them play each other and the winner of D1 will meet them in December in 4A.
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All this D1 chest thumping.

If times have truly changed then D1 will represent the east in Hershey 4A. If history is any guide odds are it won't be happening.
 
You have all the answers, JB. U are the epitome of chest thumping and ego. Enjoy your Playoffs the next few weeks and D1 will enjoy theirs. Nobody was comparing the D1 teams with PCL teams or making predictions on getting to Hershey. I wasn't the one that started the swimming thread either...
 
Have to admit, first time I've ever seen Jenkintown mentioned on this board in 16 years.
 
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Were you aware that's the matchup (Jenkintown v. McDevitt) you have this Saturday?
 
newman107 said:
Were you aware that's the matchup (Jenkintown v. McDevitt) you have this Saturday?
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To me its so sad to have McDevitt playing a A team . I remember the days when they played the big boys and did well some years. Now its a struggle to stay open.
 
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