Recruiting Trivia

[RoverNation05]

Austin Scott?

The 247 Composite is relatively unkind to Austin Scott - he was rated as the #13 running back and #147 overall player. He was all over recruiting lists based on when they were compiled. Tom Lemming had him as the #3 running back - he finalizes his list relatively late and of the national recruiting guys, he was the biggest champion of Scott. Rivals at the time put their lists out right before the high school season started then did one revision after it was over. Scott missed his entire junior season, so he jumped from unranked to the #19 running back. Scout was doing underclassmen lists, so they had him rated highly after his record breaking sophomore year, and he was a five star there after his senior season.

That's a long way of saying he's not the Parkland guy.

 

[RoverNation05]

How about Justin Goheen on that 1990 state champ N . Allegheny squad ( over my Ridley Raiders ). I know he was a top N Dame recruit that year.

I was actually really surprised, Lemming had Goheen rated as the #31 outside linebacker in the class of 1991. Based on his pedigree from when I did their state champs series write up, I assumed he'd be much higher on the list. They also had quarterback Paul Failla rated at his position, making them one of the few 1990s state champs that had multiple guys on these lists. Goheen had a really good Notre Dame career, started as a freshman and was a mainstay in Lou Holtz's lineups. Failia was much more successful as an ND shortstop, and got drafted by the Angels.

The North Allegheny player was a state champ, just not in 1990.

 

[newport]

I dont care what ANY rankings say.... but I find it damn near impossible that 12 running backs were playing better than Austin Scott played his senior year. All these years after the fact, and his numbers still dont look real. Video game type stuff. And if you had the pleasure of seeing him play live, he lived up to every single bit of the hype and then some

 

[16th&Georgetown]

How about Maurice Stovall, WR from Bishop Carroll, Dist. 12. I believe he was 1st team USA Today. He was indefensible.

 

[newport]

Brandon Short
Marlin Jackson
Ryan Mundy
Keith Carter
Ty Law
Charles Rush
Bob Sanders
DeAndre Swift
Joel Holler
Tyler Reed
Chris McKelvey

 

[tigermeat71]

west catholic.....Will Fuller? notre dame recruit and with the texans now i think

 

[Stalker]

I dont care what ANY rankings say.... but I find it damn near impossible that 12 running backs were playing better than Austin Scott played his senior year. All these years after the fact, and his numbers still dont look real. Video game type stuff. And if you had the pleasure of seeing him play live, he lived up to every single bit of the hype and then some

Amen, most rankings are questionable at best. Look at Florida who slipped only one rung losing to LSU? LSU! A good team in Cincy (real good) slips after not playing and Ohio State who struggled beating Indy and played no one is held up as something special. Sorry, I used that to vent some on the clowns doing politics....I mean polls. But yes newport these rating systems are often laughable.

 

[RoverNation05]

I dont care what ANY rankings say.... but I find it damn near impossible that 12 running backs were playing better than Austin Scott played his senior year. All these years after the fact, and his numbers still dont look real. Video game type stuff. And if you had the pleasure of seeing him play live, he lived up to every single bit of the hype and then some

I feel like I'm the one man president of the Austin Scott Historical Preservation Society, but I tend to agree with you. I get the difference between recruiting rankings and All American teams, and recruiting rankings are more about potential than strictly performance. However, on potential, he was a 6'1 210 pound running back who a state qualifier in the 100 and 200 and could jump cut and change direction as well as anybody I've ever seen. On performance, he and Reggie Bush were the two Parade All American backs and that feels right. That year was magical in the Lehigh Valley. High school fans would go to their own games, but tape the Parkland game on RCN or Service Electric so you could watch what Scott did. The numbers are legendary, and also could have been better. In their third and fourth games of the year, he got 20 carries combined because they won 95-0 (I think he only played the first quarter against Pocono Mountain). You didn't know at the time that 4,000 yards was in play and if those games happened later in the season.

I'm sure a big part of the recruiting rankings was Scott missing his sophomore year, but he didn't come out of nowhere. He ran for 1,918 yards as a sophomore - a state record for 10th graders - but Parkland (with both Scott and Tim Massaquoi) got upset by Easton in districts for the second straight season, so he didn't get to show out on the state level (Bethlehem Catholic won and went to the Eastern Final). But it was pretty clear he was special From a recruiting standpoint, he then missed his entire junior season, which scared a lot of schools off. The party line was that he had a knee injury, but there have long been persistent rumors about him getting caught selling weed in the school parking lot and facing a year long extracurriculars suspension (which got louder when he took his knee brace off at halftime of their opener in 2002, ran for 230 yards in the second half, then never wore it again). Missing a full year of tape definitely hurt him as a recruit, and also played in to him going to Penn State - they were the only school that offered him while he was out.

This is unpopular, but I will always contend that if Scott went to a football factory that didn't care about what he did off the field, he would have had a great college career and probably played in the NFL beyond his one preseason carry with the Browns. When he played at Penn State, he was awesome (see: Orange Bowl MVP against Florida State, 140 yards against Notre Dame as a sophomore, leading rusher as a true freshman despite missing half the season, etc.). He just never could stay out of Paterno's doghouse for stupid stuff - skipping class, being late to meetings, smoking weed, etc. So he was always suspended, punished by being dropped on the depth chart, etc. He got in real trouble his fifth year with the sexual assault allegation, and even though he later won a defamation lawsuit against the woman, his reputation was enough that there was absolutely no deserved benefit of the doubt and he got thrown off the team. If he had actually signed with Mack Brown at Texas instead (where he visited the weekend before signing day) I don't think they would have given a damn that he never went to class or slept through running back meetings. Give him the ball on Saturdays.

Saquon Barkley had the career I thought Austin Scott was going to have. Which is funny, I think there have been four truly great running backs from the Valley in the last 30 years - Scott (Lemming's #3 running back, 247's #12), Saquon (#12 RB nationally), James Mungro (#13 RB nationally in 1997), and Juan Gaddy (#9 running back nationally in 1993). Coming out of HS, I think people would have had Scott #1 and Saquon #4 in that group. But it's a reminder that EVERYTHING has to go right. Saquon was the biggest of the bunch, which goes a long way - Mungro did everything you wanted in a running back, was a really good player at Syracuse and carved out a nice NFL career as a third down back, but at the end of the day, being 5'9 limited his ultimate upside. Saquon stayed healthy and figured out what he had to do academically - Gaddy was a Prop 48 kid back when that was a rule, which lost him his commitment to Florida State and cost him an entire season of eligibility (he wasn't even allowed to practice as a freshman), then he tore his ACL and MCL, which was a death sentence in 1994. And Saquon is a great kid who works hard and stays out of trouble - Scott didn't. Oh, an Saquon continued to improve on a rocket like trajectory through college, because none of those things stood in his way. That's obviously a credit to him, but also shows you how thin the line can be.

 

[RoverNation05]

How about Maurice Stovall, WR from Bishop Carroll, Dist. 12. I believe he was 1st team USA Today. He was indefensible.

Maurice Stovall was listed on 247's Composite rankings as the #12 wide receiver in the country and the #100 overall player. A couple spots ahead of fellow four star Larry Fitzgerald. Like Austin Scott, Tom Lemming had him much higher - was the #2 wide receiver in his year end ranking. The only receiver Lemming had ahead of him was Ryan Moore, who went to Miami (FL) who was the top wideout on 247 too. He was a Freshman All American, but then foot injuries ruined the rest of his Miami career.

 

[Fletchster1]

The football factory comment has a lot of merit. It takes a special kid to be successful on and off the field at places like Stanford versus a school such as [insert SEC school not named Vandy here].

 

[RoverNation05]

Brandon Short
Marlin Jackson
Ryan Mundy
Keith Carter
Ty Law
Charles Rush
Bob Sanders
DeAndre Swift
Joel Holler
Tyler Reed
Chris McKelvey

Brandon Short would have been one of my picks too - he was the #3 inside linebacker in 1995. He and Lavar Arrington were two of the three Pennsylvania 5 stars who started in Penn State's linebacking corps in the late 1990s. The third was the top inside linebacker in 1997.

Ryan Mundy was the #4 safety and #73 overall player.

Keith Carter was the #3 tight end and the #127 overall player in 2001.

Ty Law was the #9 safety in 1992 - whoops.

Charles Rush was the #9 defensive tackle and #74 player nationally in 2001. Shaun Cody, Tommie Harris, and Marcus Spears were the top three at the position, which is an incredibly strong top of the list.

Bob Sanders was not ranked at his position by Tom Lemming coming out of high school. Maybe the injury his senior year? He also was pretty small if I remember correctly, put on a lot of good weight at Iowa.

D'Andre Swift was the #4 running back and #33 overall player in his class. Top two backs were Najee Harris at Alabama and Cam Akers who was a fellow 2nd round draft pick with Swift.

Joel Holler was the #6 offensive tackle and #100 overall player. Two spots ahead of future #1 overall pick Jake Long and two spots behind future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas.

Tyler Reed was the #3 offensive tackle in 2001 by Tom Lemmkng, the #4 guard and #81 player in the 247 Composite

Chris McKelvy was the #4 offensive tackle and #48 overall player in 2000.

 

[16th&Georgetown]

Refresh my memory. What are we looking for again?

 

[RoverNation05]

Refresh my memory. What are we looking for again?

Players from Pennsylvania who were the top ranked players at their position nationally since the 1990 recruiting class (so the 1989 season). It ALMOST encompasses the entire state playoff era, just missing that first year (so maybe, Sean Gilbert should be added to this list?). There were 17 in total - the ones that have been guessed correctly so far are: Ron Powlus, Lavar Arrington, Terrelle Pryor, Kyle Brady, Dan Kendra Jr., Miles Sanders, Mike Menet, Dustin Picciotti, Noah Spence, Kevin Jones, Julian Fleming, Eric Shrive.

Of the five missing, there is one offensive guard, one tight end, two centers, and an inside linebacker. The graduating years for the five are 1991, 1997, 2005, 2010, and 2013. Players signed with Penn State, Michigan (two each), and North Carolina. Their high schools are Parkland, North Allegheny, West Catholic, Fox Chapel, and Penn Hills.

This came about because I found the complete Tom Lemming Recruiting Bible position rankings (unfortunately not accompanied by an overall list) from 1990-2004 - there was a thread if anybody had a set of recruits ranked as highly as SJP's, and I thought that data only went back as far as 2001, and old rankings were kind of lost to history. So from 1990-2001 it's using the Lemming rankings I found, and from '01 on it's based on top guys from the 247 Composite, which combines everybody who does rankings (Rivals, Scout, ESPN, Lemming, and Tom Lugenbill, etc.) into a consensus list.

 

[RoverNation05]

Players from Pennsylvania who were the top ranked players at their position nationally since the 1990 recruiting class (so the 1989 season). It ALMOST encompasses the entire state playoff era, just missing that first year (so maybe, Sean Gilbert should be added to this list?).

Just ran a newspaper search - thank you Philadelphia Inquirer for publishing Tom Lemming's top 5 players nationally at each position on signing day for 1989 - Aliquippa's Sean Gilbert was in fact the #1 defensive lineman in his recruiting class in the first year of the state playoff. So in the playoff era, PA has had 18 players who were top ranked nationally at their position.

 

[newport]

How about one of the Kugler brothers and Tim Massaquoi as the Michigan guys?

 

[RoverNation05]

How about one of the Kugler brothers and Tim Massaquoi as the Michigan guys?

Kugler is correct! Patrick Kugler was the top rated center and #89 overall player in the class of 2012. His brother Rob is the one who was the state player of the year in 2010 and played in the NFL, but Patrick was the bigger recruit.

Massaquoi was the other Parkland guy who was a reasonable guess, but no. He was rated as a wide receiver, not a tight end, and was the #8 wideout and #49 overall player in the class of 2001. He would have been the #2 tight end, which is where he immediately moved at Michigan. He was so ahead of his time - he caught 50 passes as a senior - Parkland attempted 124 passes on the season. He was such a good basketball player too, hescored his 1,000th career point against Easton on a back door cut that he two-hand tomahawk dunked over our center. He’s also an awesome guy, he works in clinical psychology and social work in schools. It pains me to say that about somebody who went to Parkland AND Michigan, but Tim Massaquoi is one of the great ones off of the field too.

 

[lilromeo]

Kugler is correct! Patrick Kugler was the top rated center and #89 overall player in the class of 2012. His brother Rob is the one who was the state player of the year in 2010 and played in the NFL, but Patrick was the bigger recruit.

Massaquoi was the other Parkland guy who was a reasonable guess, but no. He was rated as a wide receiver, not a tight end, and was the #8 wideout and #49 overall player in the class of 2001. He would have been the #2 tight end, which is where he immediately moved at Michigan. He was so ahead of his time - he caught 50 passes as a senior - Parkland attempted 124 passes on the season. He was such a good basketball player too, hescored his 1,000th career point against Easton on a back door cut that he two-hand tomahawk dunked over our center. He’s also an awesome guy, he works in clinical psychology and social work in schools. It pains me to say that about somebody who went to Parkland AND Michigan, but Tim Massaquoi is one of the great ones off of the field too.

I will take a shot at the West Catholic player. How about Curtis Brinkley .

 

[newport]

I was thinking Curtis Drake maybe for the West Catholic guy. Not sure what position he was listed at in recruiting circles. Maybe he was the #1 DT QB or the #1 athlete

The other WC guy I was thinking was Marques Slocum. He was Shariff Floyd before Shariff Floyd came around. If you look up the definition of "man among boys" in the dictionary, Slocum picture would be there. Got to know him a little after his football career flamed out and he is every bit of 6'5 and was well over 300 lbs. Used to play open gym basketball with him years ago. You cant believe how light this guy was on his feet at his weight

 

[newport]

On a side note, Slocum played next to Derrell Hand on the Dline in HS. Hand went to ND. Probably the best interior DLine at the HS level I ever saw. QBs had hard times even handing the ball off to the running backs at times bc of how disruptive those 2 were. And I'm sure opposing QBs said a prayer or 2 after they called a pass play and broke the huddle 😂😂😂😂

 

[16th&Georgetown]

Greg DeLong TE, Parkland, NC

 

[16th&Georgetown]

Chase Winovich, LB TJ, Michigan?

 

[16th&Georgetown]

Miles Dieffenbach, C Fox Chapel, Penn St.

 

[RoverNation05]

Greg DeLong is correct and the other one I did not think people would get. DeLong was the #1 tight end in the class of 1991. DeLong was the Gatorade Player of the Year in PA during the 1990 season despite the Trojans going 3-8. Parkland didn’t become what it is now until 1996 and they were pretty terrible in the 1980s and early 90s. But DeLong had 13 sacks, 500 yards receiving, and returned two kicks for touchdowns. He was a 6’4 230 pound tight end/defensive end who was also their punt returner. Crazy athlete - he was the state runner up in the shot put, finalist in the discus, and the D11 champ in the 200.

DeLong signed with Mack Brown at North Carolina, and was a fouryear starter for the Tar Heels. He also started a mini pipeline from the Lehigh Valley to Chapel Hill - Jonathan Linton from Catasauqua (#6 fullback in1993) and Nate Hobgood-Chittek from William Allen (#12 defensive end in 1993) also went to UNC and played in the NFL. DeLong played in the league, most notably as the tight end for the 1998 Minnesota Vikings team that set the NFL points record in 1998 (he caught considerably fewer passes than Cris Carter and Randy Moss).

 

[RoverNation05]

On a side note, Slocum played next to Derrell Hand on the Dline in HS. Hand went to ND. Probably the best interior DLine at the HS level I ever saw. QBs had hard times even handing the ball off to the running backs at times bc of how disruptive those 2 were. And I'm sure opposing QBs said a prayer or 2 after they called a pass play and broke the huddle 😂😂😂😂

Marques Slocum was the #1 guard and #33 overall player as a five star in the class of 2005. There were three five stars in PA that year with Slocum, Justin King, and Callahan Bright, which is one of the best in state top ends.

Also, Miles Dieffenbach was the #1 center and #129 overall player in the class of 2010.

One left - and it’s the player that actually kick started the exercise for me.

 

[16th&Georgetown]

So he’s a Penn Stater?

 

[RoverNation05]

I will take a shot at the West Catholic player. How about Curtis Brinkley .

Brinkley was the #12 running back coming out of high school on Rivals (he doesn't seem to have a 247 Composite ranking), then was the #18 junior college player in his class and the #2 JUCO running back

I was thinking Curtis Drake maybe for the West Catholic guy. Not sure what position he was listed at in recruiting circles. Maybe he was the #1 DT QB or the #1 athlete

Curtis Drake was a three star and the #157 wide receiver nationally in 2009.

Chase Winovich, LB TJ, Michigan?

Winovich was a four star prospect, but the #24 outside linebacker and #299 overall player nationally.

 

[RoverNation05]

So he’s a Penn Stater?

Yes - Penn State, Penn Hills, graduated in 1997 I believe is the information out there.

 

[newport]

Ron Graham?

 

[RoverNation05]

Ron Graham?

Ron Graham was the #1 inside linebacker in the class of 1997. Penn State landed both Graham and Arrington nabbing both of the #1 linebackers in the class.

Somebody on the SJP vs. the World thread asked about whether there had been 3 top 100 guys on a team before. I could get the answer for post 2000, but was curious about the 1995 Penn Hills team with Graham and the two 300 pounders up front. Stumbled across the Tom Lemming lists looking for any old articles in the bowels of the internet. Ron Graham was the #1 linebacker in 1997, and Demond Gibson was the #8 defensive tackle in 1996 - Mike White was unranked, so they didn't match this year's SJP team. But then that's what led to the rabbit hole. So, the 18 players who have been #1 nationally at their position since the state playoffs started

1. Sean Gilbert, Aliquippa - #1 defensive lineman (1989)
2. Kyle Brady, Cedar Cliff - #1 tight end (1990)
3. Greg DeLong, Parkland - #1 tight end (1991)
4. Ron Powlus, Berwick - #1 dual threat quarterback (1993)
5. Dan Kendra, Bethlehem Catholic - #1 dual threat quarterback (1995)
6. Ron Graham, Penn Hills - #1 inside linebacker (1997)
7. Lavar Arrington, North Hills - #1 outside linebacker (1997)
8. Dustin Picciotti, CB West - #1 fullback (2000)
9. Kevin Jones, Cardinal O'Hara - #1 running back (2001)
10. Marques Slocum, West Catholilc - #1 guard (2005)
11. Terrelle Pryor, Jeannette - #1 dual threat quarterback (2008)
12. Eric Shrive, West Scranton - #1 guard (2009)
13. Miles Dieffenbach, Fox Chapel - #1 center (2010)
14. Noah Spence, Bishop McDevitt - #1 defensive end (2012)
15. Patrick Kugler, North Allegheny - #1 center (2013)
16. Miles Sanders, Woodland Hills - #1 running back (2016)
17. Mike Menet, Exeter Township - #1 guard (2016)
18. Julian Fleming, Southern Columbia - #1 wide receiver (2020)

From this group, Gilbert, Brady, Arrington, Jones, Pryor, Spence, and Sanders were all taken in the NFL draft, with Arrington the highest pick at #2 overall, narrowly edging out Gilbert who was taken #3. Jones and Brady were also first rounders, while Spence and Sanders were second round picks. Pryor was taken in the supplemental draft. Gilbert, Arrington, and Brady were consensus All Americans in college, with Arrington winning the Butkus Award as the National Defensive Player of the Year.

DeLong, Powlus, and Dieffenbach all signed deals as undrafted free agents after solid college careers. DeLong is the only one who actually played in the NFL, lasting for six seasons. Powlus, despite not living up to "four Heisman Trophy" hype, was a four year starter at Notre Dame and threw for over 7,000 yards and 50 touchdowns.

Graham and Kugler both had solid Big Ten careers and were multi-year contributors and starters, but did not play professional football.

Kendra and Picciotti both sustained career altering injuries. Kendra was hit low in the FSU spring game on a scramble and needed reconstructive knee surgery, effectively ending his career as an elite player, though he did return two years later as a blocking fullback. Picciotti sustained a serious concussion in the Big 33 game, and battled post concussion syndrome and repeat head injuries in his career at Pitt.

Slocum and Shrive did not contribute on the field at Michigan and Penn State.

Menet and Fleming are on college rosters right now. Menet has started 32 straight games at center for Penn State and is expected to be drafted this spring. Fleming has three catches for 21 yards as a true freshman at Ohio State.

 

[scs13]

Incredible work, Rover! Thanks for the fun trip down memory lane.

 

[scs13]

Question for the group. Obviously, I’m a football fan and follow local hs football in addition to College/NFL games. I started collecting mini-helmets years ago with a focus on the major D1 programs, then started to get some 1AA schools, like Nova, Richmond, William & Mary, etc. From there, I progressed on to some D3 and more obscure schools from sites that were selling custom helmets. On Ted Silary’s website, I found a guy who was doing custom local HS helmets, so I scooped up a bunch of the Catholic league schools (I’m a Prep grad), then picked-up some District 1 schools and other stalwarts, like Easton. I live up in the Pennridge school district and would love to add Pennridge, Souderton, and CB South to the collection (I already have CB East and West). The seller advertising on Ted’s website no longer has the Pennridge decals and didn’t offer South or Souderton. Does anyone know of any other place or seller that might make mini-helmets for these schools? Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[lilromeo]

So in working on something else, I stumbled upon an hisorical database of Tom Lemming's position rankings dating back to the 1990 signing day (so seniors who played in 1989). I'm trying to put together some bigger info around what I found, because it's a fascinating historical document. Rivals didn't start rankings until 2001 and the 247 Composite only goes back to 2000 (which is not a complete list at all), and Tom was kind of the guy in recruiting information before the internet era.

It doesn't have overall rankings, or an equivalent of a "star" rating, but it does have deep lists at every position. So here's the activity - using the Tom Lemming rankings from 1990-2002 and the 247 Composite thereafter, Pennsylvania has had 17 players ranked as the top at their position nationally. I'm curious how many the board can put together. Throughout the day I'll release more hints as information, but I'll start with positions and a list of the years (not tied to position for now).

Positions:
3 - Dual Threat QB
3 1 – Guard
2 – Running Back
2 1 – Tight Ends
2 – Center
1 – Fullback
1 – Wide Receiver
1 – Defensive End
1 - Inside Linebacker
1 – Outside Linebacker

Years
1990
1991
1993
1994
1997
1997
2000
2001
2005
2008
2009
2010
2012
2013
2016
2016
2020

Years are for the year of high school graduation - so 2020 would be the 2019 football season. There are no #1's in this year's class, Jeremiah Trotter Jr. is the highest rated at his position as the #2 inside linebacker nationally, next year's early look also has a #2 in Enai White from Imhotep at defensive end.

Correct
Ron Powlus, Berwick - #1 dual threat QB in 1993 (Notre Dame)
Lavar Arrington, North Hills - #1 outside linebacker in 1997 (Penn State)
Terrelle Pryor, Jeannette - #1 dual threat QB and #2 overall player in 2008 (Ohio State)
Dan Kendra, Bethlehem Catholic - #1 dual threat QB in 1994 (Florida State)
Kevin Jones, Cardinal O'Hara - #1 running back and #1 overall player in 2001 (Virginia Tech)
Dustin Picciotti, CB West - #1 fullback in 2000 (Pittsburgh)
Mike Menet, Exeter Township - #1 guard , #28 overall player in 2016 (Penn State)
Julian Fleming, Southern Columbia - #1 wide receiver, #4 overall player in 2020 (Ohio State)
Kyle Brady, Cedar Cliff - #1 tight end in 1990 (Penn State)
Noah Spencer, Bishop McDevitt - #1 defensive end, #5 overall player in 2012 (Ohio State)
Miles Sanders, Woodland Hills - #1 running back, #21 overall player in 2016 (Penn State)
Eric Shrive, West Scranton - #1 guard, #39 overall player in 2009 (Penn State)

Not Quite
Micah Parsons, Harrisburg - #2 defensive end, #5 overall player in 2018
Dan Connor, Strath Haven - #2 inside linebacker in 2004, #13 overall player in 2004
Anthony Morelli, Penn Hills - #2 pro style QB in 2004, #15 overall player in 2004
Shariff Floyd, George Washington - #2 defensive end in 2010, #6 overall player in 2010
Callahan Bright, Harriton - #2 defensive tackle in 2005, #19 overall player in 2005
Justin King, Gateway - #2 cornerback in 2005, #15 overall player in 2005
Jeff Smoker, Manheim Central - #2 quarterback, #15 overall player in 2000
Jon Ritchie, Cumberland Valley - #2 fullback in 1993
Chad Henne, Wilson West Lawn - #3 quarterback, #18 overall player in 2004
Marlin Jackson, Sharon - #3 cornerback, #33 overall player
Jonathan Baldwin, Aliquippa - #4 wide receiver, #14 overall player in 2009
Stefan Wisniewski, Pittsburgh Central Catholic - #4 guard in 2007, #98 overall player
Dan Lawlor, Cumberland Valley - #8 fullback in 2004, #380 overall player
Shady McCoy, Bishop McDevitt - #9 running back, #29 overall player in 2006
AQ Shipley, Cornell - #14 defensive tackle in 2004, #124 overall player

Rover, could you check out a center from 1990 McD district 12 named mark Zateveski who went on to start for Notre Dame ,thanks

 

[jhoops18]

Rover,
Great stuff. Especially enjoy the discussion about the running backs.
I never made it to see Austin Scott but remember tuning in to the Big Ticket to hear what ridiculous numbers he put up that Friday night. Would have loved to have seen him make a bigger impact at PSU, same with Piciotti at Pitt.
If you could, look up two RB's from Norristown, Raymond Carroll (mid 90's) and Wayne Denison (mid 80's I think). Denison was the most physically gifted RB I've ever seen at the high school level, went to Florida State but transferred back to Temple I think.
Thanks

 

[RoverNation05]

Rover, could you check out a center from 1990 McD district 12 named mark Zateveski who went on to start for Notre Dame ,thanks

Mark Zatevski was rated as the #27 offensive tackle in the class of 1991. Top tackle that year was John Horn, who went to Illinois (can you imagine Illinois getting a top ranked player now?). #6 was Blake Brockermeyer, whose twin sons just signed with Alabama the other day as the #2 tackle and top center in the country.

 

[RoverNation05]

Rover,
Great stuff. Especially enjoy the discussion about the running backs.
I never made it to see Austin Scott but remember tuning in to the Big Ticket to hear what ridiculous numbers he put up that Friday night. Would have loved to have seen him make a bigger impact at PSU, same with Piciotti at Pitt.
If you could, look up two RB's from Norristown, Raymond Carroll (mid 90's) and Wayne Denison (mid 80's I think). Denison was the most physically gifted RB I've ever seen at the high school level, went to Florida State but transferred back to Temple I think.
Thanks

Bo Carroll was the #11 running back in 1996, seven spots ahead of Edgerrin James.

The lists I found only to back to 1990 signing day, I’ll see if I can pull a newspaper article to give some context for Denison.

 

[16th&Georgetown]

Bo Carroll is still the fastest high school player I’ve ever seen. Rover, where did CB West players Dave Armstrong class of 98 and Rob Swett LB class of 94 or 95 rank?They both went to Michigan.

 

[RoverNation05]

Bo Carroll is still the fastest high school player I’ve ever seen. Rover, where did CB West players Dave Armstrong class of 98 and Rob Swett LB class of 94 or 95 rank?They both went to Michigan.

I thought Dave Armstrong would be somebody’s guess when we started. Armstrong was the #3 defensive end in 1998. He was behind Dennis Johnson, who went to Kentucky, and big John Henderson, who was an Outland winner at Tennessee. Most interesting name on the D- Ends list is future HOF tight end Antonio Gates.

The 1997 CB West team had three players ranked in the top 10 in their position. Armstrong at defensive end, Picciotti was the #1 fullback two years later, but just played defense in ‘97, and Ben Carber was the #9 guard the next season

Rob Swett was the #11 inside linebacker in 1993.

The other ranked CB West player is Todd Volitis, who was the #19 defensive tackle in 1994.

 

[RoverNation05]

Bo Carroll was the #11 running back in 1996, seven spots ahead of Edgerrin James.

The lists I found only to back to 1990 signing day, I’ll see if I can pull a newspaper article to give some context for Denison.

Wayne Denson was the #6 rated running back by Parade Magazine in 1983. In the press release, Chuck Amato calls him “a franchise.”

Amato was Florida State’s weapon in recruiting PA. Chuck was a state champ wrestler at all state linebacker at Easton, then was Bowden’s DC and assistant head coach for decades.

 

[newport]

So heres probably an impossible question...of the 17 guys mentioned above, who were the top 5-7 high school players out of that group?

 

[RoverNation05]

Fun question! I think there is actually a pretty clear top four - the three quarterbacks and Arrington.

Ron Powlus - from the AP story on his signing "Powlus, a virtually unanimous choice as national high school football player of the year." Berwick went 37-5 in his four years as a starter and he threw for 35 TDs and ran for 21 TDs in 1992, which is insane in offensive schemes and style of play 30 years ago. He was the Parade, USA Today, and Gatorade national player of the year. Beano Cook famously predicted that Powlus would win two national titles and four Heismans at Notre Dame. He was a good enough player that being the first four year starting quarterback in Notre Dame history and setting their passing yards and TDs record was a total disappointment.

Dan Kendra III - was named National Player of the Year by ESPN, USA Today, SuperPrep, and Parade Magazine. He threw for 6,087 yards and 60 TDs, plus ran for 1,969 yards and 31 TDs, again, in a 1991-1994 offense style. Kendra going to Florida State would be like a kid going to Alabama now. Kendra made big news at the time as a Signing Day flip from Penn State to Florida State, which is common now, but unheard of in 1995 (his old man played QB for Bowden at West Virginia, it was a fit that made sense). And of course, the Kendra era ended before it started at FSU.

Lavar Arrington - Parade National Player of the Year, Bobby Dodd National Offensive Player of the Year, he was the first Quad-A player in the WPIAL to run for over 4,000 career yards and joined Matt Suhey as only the second 3-time pick to the Big School All State team. He made headlines as an 8th grader dominating summer league basketball and kind of never looked back.

Terrelle Pryor - is the 12th highest rated prospect by 24& since the website started in 2001. The only quarterbacks ahead of him are Vince Young, Trevor Lawrence, and Justin Fields. He was national player of the year by USA Today, Parade, SuperPrep, Rivals, and MVP of the Army All American game. He both threw and rushed for over 4,000 yards in his career, the only player to do so., and was the first player to throw and run for 1,800 yards in a season. He was also a top 30 basketball recruit, who ranked ahead of Draymond Green and Klay Thompson in his class. He may have been the most hyped - although that is no doubt helped out by the internet.

I'd say the argument for the fifth spot is between Fleming, Jones, and maybe Picciotti?

I might give it to Micah Parsons had he been a #1. He's probably evolutionary Arrington.