Recruiting Trivia

[RoverNation05]

So in working on something else, I stumbled upon an hisorical database of Tom Lemming's position rankings dating back to the 1990 signing day (so seniors who played in 1989). I'm trying to put together some bigger info around what I found, because it's a fascinating historical document. Rivals didn't start rankings until 2001 and the 247 Composite only goes back to 2000 (which is not a complete list at all), and Tom was kind of the guy in recruiting information before the internet era.

It doesn't have overall rankings, or an equivalent of a "star" rating, but it does have deep lists at every position. So here's the activity - using the Tom Lemming rankings from 1990-2002 and the 247 Composite thereafter, Pennsylvania has had 17 players ranked as the top at their position nationally. I'm curious how many the board can put together. Throughout the day I'll release more hints as information, but I'll start with positions and a list of the years (not tied to position for now).

Positions:
3 - Dual Threat QB
3 1 – Guard
2 – Running Back
2 1 – Tight Ends
2 – Center
1 – Fullback
1 – Wide Receiver
1 – Defensive End
1 - Inside Linebacker
1 – Outside Linebacker

Years
1990
1991
1993
1994
1997
1997
2000
2001
2005
2008
2009
2010
2012
2013
2016
2016
2020

Years are for the year of high school graduation - so 2020 would be the 2019 football season. There are no #1's in this year's class, Jeremiah Trotter Jr. is the highest rated at his position as the #2 inside linebacker nationally, next year's early look also has a #2 in Enai White from Imhotep at defensive end.

Correct
Ron Powlus, Berwick - #1 dual threat QB in 1993 (Notre Dame)
Lavar Arrington, North Hills - #1 outside linebacker in 1997 (Penn State)
Terrelle Pryor, Jeannette - #1 dual threat QB and #2 overall player in 2008 (Ohio State)
Dan Kendra, Bethlehem Catholic - #1 dual threat QB in 1994 (Florida State)
Kevin Jones, Cardinal O'Hara - #1 running back and #1 overall player in 2001 (Virginia Tech)
Dustin Picciotti, CB West - #1 fullback in 2000 (Pittsburgh)
Mike Menet, Exeter Township - #1 guard , #28 overall player in 2016 (Penn State)
Julian Fleming, Southern Columbia - #1 wide receiver, #4 overall player in 2020 (Ohio State)
Kyle Brady, Cedar Cliff - #1 tight end in 1990 (Penn State)
Noah Spencer, Bishop McDevitt - #1 defensive end, #5 overall player in 2012 (Ohio State)
Miles Sanders, Woodland Hills - #1 running back, #21 overall player in 2016 (Penn State)
Eric Shrive, West Scranton - #1 guard, #39 overall player in 2009 (Penn State)

Not Quite
Micah Parsons, Harrisburg - #2 defensive end, #5 overall player in 2018
Dan Connor, Strath Haven - #2 inside linebacker in 2004, #13 overall player in 2004
Anthony Morelli, Penn Hills - #2 pro style QB in 2004, #15 overall player in 2004
Shariff Floyd, George Washington - #2 defensive end in 2010, #6 overall player in 2010
Callahan Bright, Harriton - #2 defensive tackle in 2005, #19 overall player in 2005
Justin King, Gateway - #2 cornerback in 2005, #15 overall player in 2005
Jeff Smoker, Manheim Central - #2 quarterback, #15 overall player in 2000
Jon Ritchie, Cumberland Valley - #2 fullback in 1993
Chad Henne, Wilson West Lawn - #3 quarterback, #18 overall player in 2004
Marlin Jackson, Sharon - #3 cornerback, #33 overall player
Jonathan Baldwin, Aliquippa - #4 wide receiver, #14 overall player in 2009
Stefan Wisniewski, Pittsburgh Central Catholic - #4 guard in 2007, #98 overall player
Dan Lawlor, Cumberland Valley - #8 fullback in 2004, #380 overall player
Shady McCoy, Bishop McDevitt - #9 running back, #29 overall player in 2006
AQ Shipley, Cornell - #14 defensive tackle in 2004, #124 overall player

 

[scs13]

Ron Powlus, Tyrelle Pryor, and Lavarr Arrington come to mind immediately.

 

[RoverNation05]

Ron Powlus, Tyrelle Pryor, and Lavarr Arrington come to mind immediately.

Correct on all three. Powlus and Arrington were both USA Today Players of the Year, and Pryor was the #2 overall recruit in the 247 Composite that season.

Next hint - where the #1's played (or are playing)
6 - Penn State: Arrington, Menet, Brady, Sanders, Shrive, ?, ?
3 - Ohio State: Pryor, Fleming, Spence
2 - Michigan: ?, ?
Pittsburgh: Dustin Picciotti
Notre Dame: Powlus
Florida State: Dan Kendra
Virginia Tech: Kevin Jones
North Carolina: ?

Note: I messed up one player’s school, it’s another Penn State, not Pitt


Two are still active in college, two are still active in the NFL

 

[scs13]

Va Tech is likely Kevin Jones (I remember him being electric, but didn’t think he was the #1 RB.

maybe Dan Kendra for Florida State?

 

[scs13]

and taking a shot with Dan Connor since there are a number of PSU players.

 

[RoverNation05]

Va Tech is likely Kevin Jones (I remember him being electric, but didn’t think he was the #1 RB.

maybe Dan Kendra for Florida State?

Both correct
Jones was not only the #1 RB but the #1 player in the 2001 class. Career panned out too as a first round NFL draft pick. He was ahead of fellow 5 stars Tommie Harris, Marcus Spears, Cadillac Williams, Cedric Benson, and Joe Mauer. Best running back career in the top 100 belongs to the immortal Frank Gore, who was the #11 running back and #90 overall. Best player period (probbably colleg eand NFL) was #93 and #14 wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald.

Kendra was also the #1 overall player in Lemming's list - SuperPrep went with some kid named Randy Moss from West Virginia. Kendra always gets labeled a bust, which I never think is totally fair, because he needed reconstructive knee surgery after tearing his ACL and MCL in their spring game after his sophomore season.

 

[RoverNation05]

and taking a shot with Dan Connor since there are a number of PSU players.

Great guess - very close. Dan Connor was the #2 inside linebacker in 2004, ranking behind Keith Rivers out of Florida, who played at USC and was taken #9 in the NFL draft.

Also a five star linebacker (#4 in position rankings) that season was Reading's James Bryant, who played at Miami.

 

[newport]

Anthony Morelli? I thought he was the #1 PP quarterback his Sr year. I may be mistaken

 

[newport]

AQ Shipley
Wisniewski
Jon Ritchie
Dustin Picciotti
Dan Lawlor

 

[RoverNation05]

Anthony Morelli? I thought he was the #1 PP quarterback his Sr year. I may be mistaken

Great guess - close but just missed. He was the #2 pro style QB behind Rhett Bomar, who is famous for getting free cars at Oklahoma.

 

[RoverNation05]

AQ Shipley
Wisniewski
Jon Ritchie
Dustin Picciotti
Dan Lawlor

Yes on Picciotti - he was the #1 fullback slotted just ahead of Greg Jones, who played at Florida State (his forearm shiver on a UNC defender is one of my favorite highlights ever) then played in the NFL for a long time. I think he had Picciotti near his top 10 of overall players, but I can't find that list.

Kind of can't believe Ritchie wasn't #1 when I looked at it, but Lemming had him behind Clarence Williams from Florida, who went to Florida State and played for the Buffalo Bills. Obviously Ritchie panned out too.

Lawlor was a monster at Cumberland Valley - beating that team is one of the great wins in Easton history, so I'm always happy to bring that team up. He was the #8 fullback in the class of 2004, top guy I've never heard of - Dwayne Jones from NJ who played at Rutgers. #2 was future Madden cover boy Peyton Hillis.

Stefan Wisniewski is another one that I thought I remembered being the top guy in his class. He was #4, with the top guy being five star Tray Allen from Texas, who is an all time bust. Wisniewski is best guy in that top 10 in hindsight - Maurkice Pouncey at #12 might challenge him for best overall.

Shipley isn't one I would have thought of. He was the #14 defensive tackle and #128 overall, so a way better recruit than I remember. Top DT that year was DeMario Presssley from North Carolina who played for Chuck Amato at NC State. I have no memory of him, but looks like he played for a while in the NFL too.

 

[RoverNation05]

Next hint - by District

District 7 – 6: Arrington, Pryor, ?, ?, ?, ?
District 3 – 3: Menet, Brady, Spence
District 4 – 2: Powlus, Fleming
District 11 - 2: Kendra, ?
District 12 - 2: Jones, ?
District 1 - 1: Picciotti
District 2 - 1

 

[scs13]

I’ll let others play here...fun stuff, Rover! Love it!

Next hint - by District

District 7 – 6: Arrington, Pryor, ?, ?, ?, ?
District 3 – 3: ?, ?, ?
District 4 – 2: Powlus, ?
District 11 - 2: Kendra, ?
District 12 - 2: Jones, ?
District 1 - 1: Picciotti
District 2 - 1

 

[scs13]

How about Sharif Floyd from D12?

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

Julian FleMing from S Columbia sounds like he checks off a few boxes for 2020 , and then I’ll go way back to 1990 and say either Brian Milne or Tim Ruddy. I would call Milne a FB , but maybe they have him as A RB. 4 time state champ In discus. Ruddy had a great career at Notre Dame

 

[newport]

How about Callahan Bright? I know he didnt amount to much after Harriton, but he was as big a recruit(literally and figuratively) as just about anyone ever has been in SEPA

 

[newport]

Im gonna guess Justin King was the #1 cornerback his Sr year at Gateway

 

[newport]

Because I have family out that way, I always kept tabs of Michael Menet. I know he was highly rated but not sure if he was a #1 at his position type guy. He may have been close

 

[RoverNation05]

How about Sharif Floyd from D12?

Incredibly close - Floyd was the #2 defensive end in his class, just behind Jackson Jeffcoat from Texas (who played at Texas). Floyd was the #6 overall player in the class, Jeffcoat was #5.

One of my favorite stories to tell was an Easton coach talking about trying to break down film for their game against Parkland in 2009. He said the entire game film from Parkland's opener against GW was unusable on offense, because Floyd just bulldozed the line every snap and Parkland had to make due with a broken play.

 

[RoverNation05]

Julian FleMing from S Columbia sounds like he checks off a few boxes for 2020 , and then I’ll go way back to 1990 and say either Brian Milne or Tim Ruddy. I would call Milne a FB , but maybe they have him as A RB. 4 time state champ In discus. Ruddy had a great career at Notre Dame

Yes on Fleming - #1 receiver and the highest ranking overall player from PA since Pryor at #4 overall.

Tim Ruddy was the #21 offensive lineman in 1990 (Lemming didn't start splitting tackles and interior linemen until the following season). The top lineman that year was Mike Ciasca from Arizona who stayed in state. Aaron Taylor is the guy in the top 10 who had the best career - a two-time All American and first round pick at Notre Dame.

Lemming did not have Milne ranked at his position.

 

[RoverNation05]

How about Callahan Bright? I know he didnt amount to much after Harriton, but he was as big a recruit(literally and figuratively) as just about anyone ever has been in SEPA

Another really close one, Callahan Bright was the #2 defensive tackle in 2005 and a top 20 player in the country. Ranked behind Demarcus Granger from Texas who went to Oklahoma, but was hurt for most of college.

When Bright was at Glen Mills, seeing him wrestle heavyweight at states was one of the most intimidating things I've ever seen. Just rag dolled people. He wasn't technically proficient enough to win it, but just a crazy enough athlete to place top 5. The police escort to the mat was a nice touch too.

 

[RoverNation05]

Im gonna guess Justin King was the #1 cornerback his Sr year at Gateway

King was the #2 cornerback (and could have been ranked as a running back too) and the #15 overall player in the class. He was rated behind Demetrice Morley from Florida, who was the #13 overall player and went to Tennessee. Morley had academic and discipline issues at Tennessee and was dismissed from the team twice. King was the last in-state 5 star that Penn State signed until the other 2016 entry on this list.

 

[RoverNation05]

Because I have family out that way, I always kept tabs of Michael Menet. I know he was highly rated but not sure if he was a #1 at his position type guy. He may have been close

Yes, Menet was the top rated guard in 2016 and the #28 overall player in his class. He was the second highest rated 4 star player in the class. I think he was actually a kid who was appreciated nationally in recruiting circles way more than he was appreciated in Pennsylvania as a prospect, because of where he played.

 

[newport]

I'm fairly confident, after a few hints haha, that Micah Parsons is on this list

 

[newport]

Was Shady the #1 RB his senior year? I know he had a season ending injury 1 year and maybe that kept him from getting the top spot. And who was the DEnd from McDevitt a few years back? I think he played against that all time Wood team in the Finals when Wood obliterated BMcD

 

[newport]

When I guessed Shipley, I was thinking about him as a Center. Multiple year starter amd national award winner at PSU who carved himself a nice pro career out at center before a neck injury may have ended his career this year or last

 

[RoverNation05]

I'm fairly confident, after a few hints haha, that Micah Parsons is on this list

You’d think. Parsons was the #5 overall player in his class, but #4 was Alabama commit defensive end Eyabi Anoma from St. Frances Academy in Baltimore. Anoma was kicked out of Alabama and the University of Houston. Parsons moved from defensive end to linebacker in a move that I’d say worked out.

You did get the defensive end from Central PA. Noah Spence was the top rated defensive end in the class of 2012 and the #5 overall player. Spence actually played in two state finals, losing that game to that crazyWood team, and getting beat 29-28 the year before by the Allentown Central Catholic team with Brendan Nosovitch. I think Spence had three sacks in that game. He played at Ohio State and was an All Big Ten sophomore before he lost eligibility over failed drug tests. I think he’s still in the NFL with the Bucs.

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

Not sure the year 89 or 90 , but how about Kyle Brady ?

 

[RoverNation05]

Was Shady the #1 RB his senior year? I know he had a season ending injury 1 year and maybe that kept him from getting the top spot. And who was the DEnd from McDevitt a few years back? I think he played against that all time Wood team in the Finals when Wood obliterated BMcD

Shady’a ranking is kind of wild. He was a five star and the #29 overall player in his class. Which was good enough to be the #9 running back. Receivers are like that now, so many of the best athletes play there are a disproportionate number of the five stars are receivers now and were running backs then. Not totally sure when it flipped.

Shady was nine. Ahead of him were Beanie Wells (#1), CJ Spiller, and Demarco Murray, plus other guys who werereally good college guys (Allen Bradford, Stafon Johnson, and CJ Gable at USC, Mike Goodson at Texas A&M).

 

[RoverNation05]

Not sure the year 89 or 90 , but how about Kyle Brady ?

Nice work - Brady was the top rated tight end in 1990. He led Cedar Cliff to the state finals as a junior in 1988, the first year of the state tournament. Was an All American and a first round pick out of Penn State.

The other tight end is from the next season and I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s one of the only top rated players at his position from a 3-7 high school team.

 

[RoverNation05]

When I guessed Shipley, I was thinking about him as a Center. Multiple year starter amd national award winner at PSU who carved himself a nice pro career out at center before a neck injury may have ended his career this year or last

Your logic on Shipley holds for one of the other two centers in terms of being a Penn State guy. He was rated in a similar ballpark to Shipley- both centers actually were more recent and were top 125 but not top 50 type players.

 

[scs13]

Still scratching my head on the other 2016 top-rated player. Was it Miles Sanders?

 

[RoverNation05]

Still scratching my head on the other 2016 top-rated player. Was it Miles Sanders?

Bingo, Miles Sanders was the #1 running back, a five star, and the #21 overall player in the class of 2016. He was Penn State’s first in state five star since Justin King. I think he gets overshadowed as a huge recruit because the #13 running back in the class before him immediately was the most exciting player in college football. Those Lehigh Valley kids are just different.

The comparison between Sanders and McCoy’s ratings show how much the game has changed. McCoy was #29 overall, Sanders was #21. But they were #9 vs #1 at their position. And in Sanders year, only 2 running backs were in the top 100. A decade earlier in McCoy’s year, there were 17. Some of that is just variation in year. But not all of it.

 

[newport]

Eric Shrive
Jeff Smoker
Chad Henne
Jonathan Baldwin
Marlin Jackson
Darrelle Revis

Just throwing some older names out there at this point

 

[RoverNation05]

Eric Shrive is the one I thought nobody would get! Shrive, from West Scranton, was the #1 guard and #39 overall player in the class of 2009. I think by all accounts a really good guy, but his football career did not play out the way he wanted at Penn State.

Jeff Smoker was the #2 quarterback and #15 overall player in the class of 2000. Brock Berlin, who played at Miami and Florida, was the #1 QB and #2 overall.

Chad Henne is in the same class as Morelli and was the #3 quarterback and #18 overall player,behind Rhett Bomar and Anthony Morelli. Henne obviously had the best career.

Jonathan Baldwin was part of an insane receiver class. He was a five star and the #14 overall player, but the #4 receiver. The top two players nationally were wide receivers Julio Jones and AJ Green. Those two and Baldwin were all first round picks. DeAndre Brown from Mississippi was #3 and #12 overall.

Marlin Jackson was a five star and the #33 overall player in the country, but the #3 corner. Ahmad Carroll and Matt Ware, who went to Arkansas and UCLA. Antrell Rolle, who played at Miami and then for a long time in the NFL, ended up the best guy in the top ten.

Lastly, Derrelle Revis was the #42 cornerback, #27 player in Pennsylvania, and the #611 player nationally. When I talked about three stars on another thread, he’s one of the players i had in mind. An awesome high school player, put together one of the most dominant games I’ve ever seen in the 2003 state championship against Northern Lehigh. He scored five touchdowns (three rushing, one defensive, one return) in a 32-29 win in what was quietly an all time game. It wasn't like he was an unknown quantity - he was the AP Small School Player of the Year, a Big 33 pick, the Post Gazette's WPIAL Player of the Year, an all state shooting guard who scored 1,800 career points, and was the anchor leg of the state runner up 4x100 relay team. Even if he's not a big name in national recruiting circles, you HAVE to know your state well enough to know that this is a guy you need to land. And Pitt did, I guess.

 

[RoverNation05]

Schools remaining:
Fox Chapel
North Allegheny
Parkland
Penn Hills
West Catholic

 

[Relayer]

Penn Hills - Bill Fralic?

Edit: Forgot he played prior to 1990.

 

[newport]

Austin Scott?

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

How about Justin Goheen on that 1990 state champ N . Allegheny squad ( over my Ridley Raiders ). I know he was a top N Dame recruit that year.

 

[RoverNation05]

Penn Hills - Bill Fralic?

Edit: Forgot he played prior to 1990.

The way he was written about, I'm sure he'd be at or near the top of a recruiting list from 1981. I actually stumbled upon these lists while doing research on the Penn Hills - somebody on another thread asked a question about the SJP team having three guys so highly ranked as recruits, and I thought Penn Hills was the team from the 1990s that might have a combination that came close.