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Prep/GV

So I understand correctly, D1 is bad because they can’t get past the Prep. So the WPIAL is bad outside of every four years, correct? Because they lose 2-3 years then win, lose 2-3 years then win. This argument is so bad. I’m not defending D1 being down. They’re obviously worse off than years previous they are competing with Tep, NG, Prep, InterAc etc. more now than ever to keep the good players at home. Take a school like UDarby who has kids living in district but are literally driving 30-40 mins away to play at Malvern, EA, etc. Prep this year has 2 freshmen who should be at Garnet Valley. So is it realistic to think GV should ever compete with Prep? No. Is that Prep fault? Nope, they play within the rules they’ve been given and kudos to them for doing it the right way. But GV also does it the right way they’re just a boundary school.

And to the poster who said GV would lose to Judge did you watch any game outside of the Prep one? Didn’t judge lose to Pope John Paul? Not a shot at PJP, but come on now man. You sound more like you’re just trying to trash GV than actually making a solid argument.
 
It's not just the Prep that District One teams can't get past. Look at the record of District One teams losing to District 11 and District 3. In the last 15 years District One teams have won two out of district games is state playoffs at the big school level. There is much more going on here than losing games to District 12 teams. They're not playing football at the level of District 3, 7, and 11.
 
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So I understand correctly, D1 is bad because they can’t get past the Prep. So the WPIAL is bad outside of every four years, correct? Because they lose 2-3 years then win, lose 2-3 years then win. This argument is so bad. I’m not defending D1 being down. They’re obviously worse off than years previous they are competing with Tep, NG, Prep, InterAc etc. more now than ever to keep the good players at home. Take a school like UDarby who has kids living in district but are literally driving 30-40 mins away to play at Malvern, EA, etc. Prep this year has 2 freshmen who should be at Garnet Valley. So is it realistic to think GV should ever compete with Prep? No. Is that Prep fault? Nope, they play within the rules they’ve been given and kudos to them for doing it the right way. But GV also does it the right way they’re just a boundary school.

And to the poster who said GV would lose to Judge did you watch any game outside of the Prep one? Didn’t judge lose to Pope John Paul? Not a shot at PJP, but come on now man. You sound more like you’re just trying to trash GV than actually making a solid argument.
Not saying the WPIAL is bad except for every four years, but I am saying, based on what people in the west are saying, that this year 6A was a very down one in the WPIAL. Rover said much the same about D11, with the added note that it was kind of a fluke that Parkland (the "fifth place team") wound up playing SJP.

I think your post is right in suggesting that in the Philly area there's a lot more happening that's affecting the quality of football at public schools than SJP. I agree the Inter-Ac and the other Catholic schools are a factor. There are also larger demographic and cultural changes happening. Northeast dressing no more than 20 players in the D12 championship game told me something.

One other thing: does anyone doubt that within two years--maybe even one year--of the Prep leaving the PIAA we'd be hearing from Coach A and B and from lots of others (including some people on here) that public school x or y would/could/might beat the Prep if the Prep were still in the PIAA?
 
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Not saying the WPIAL is bad except for every four years, but I am saying, based on what people in the west are saying, that this year 6A was a very down one in the WPIAL. Rover said much the same about D11, with the added note that it was kind of a fluke that Parkland (the "fifth place team") wound up playing SJP.

I think your post is right in suggesting that in the Philly area there's a lot more happening that's affecting the quality of football at public schools than SJP. I agree the Inter-Ac and the other Catholic schools are a factor. There are also larger demographic and cultural changes happening. Northeast dressing no more than 20 players in the D12 championship game told me something.

One other thing: does anyone doubt that within two years--maybe even one year--of the Prep leaving the PIAA we'd be hearing from Coach A and B and from lots of others (including some people on here) that public school x or y would/could/might beat the Prep if the Prep were still in the PIAA?
Absolutely, because it’s easier to say it when you don’t have to prove it anymore. That’s how it use to be before PCL joined PIAA. “Oh (insert team) would beat them if they joined the PIAA” the old saying be careful what you wish for.
 
Absolutely, because it’s easier to say it when you don’t have to prove it anymore. That’s how it use to be before PCL joined PIAA. “Oh (insert team) would beat them if they joined the PIAA” the old saying be careful what you wish for.
I think district 1 is down and SJP is way up. I truly believe sjp beats anyone in the country next year and when these guys graduate they'll have other D1 guys from all around to take their place. Like they've been doing. I'd like them to put img and st Thomas on thier schedule next year because I think they beat them both. I guess I don't really like change. I like the way hs football use to be rather then these schools being able to form these super programs like img, mater dei, st Thomas, and st Joe's prep. I miss the days of McKeesport playing Downingtown to see witch community produces the better athletes. I just have to except this is the way it is and this is were hs has headed.
 
Let’s compare d1 and d7 efforts against St. Joes prep since they became a dynasty

D1
2022- SJP 48 Garnet Valley 7
2021- SJP 49 Garnet Valley 13
2020- SJP 51 Souderton 43
2017- SJP 53 Coatsville 49
2016- SJP 35 Northpenn 25
2014- SJP 37 Pennsbury 7
2013- SJP 37 Neshaminy 21
0-7

WPIAL
2021- Lebo 35 SJP 17
2019- SJP 31 PCC 24 (OT)
2018- SJP 37 PR 0
2017- PR 41 SJP 21
2016- SJP 42 PCC 7
2014- SJP 49 PR 41
2013- SJP 35 PCC 10
2-5
 
I think district 1 is down and SJP is way up. I truly believe sjp beats anyone in the country next year and when these guys graduate they'll have other D1 guys from all around to take their place. Like they've been doing. I'd like them to put img and st Thomas on thier schedule next year because I think they beat them both. I guess I don't really like change. I like the way hs football use to be rather then these schools being able to form these super programs like img, mater dei, st Thomas, and st Joe's prep. I miss the days of McKeesport playing Downingtown to see witch community produces the better athletes. I just have to except this is the way it is and this is were hs has headed.
I too miss the old days. When I was a kid I visited some relatives in Scranton and saw the Blakely Bears. If there had been state playoffs, I'm next to sure they would have won more than once in a small-school category. Huge community support. But many things that made that team and that community what they were are gone--the school itself doesn't exist because of amalgamation.

For sure SJP's football program has benefited from some of the larger changes, e.g., Catholic schools offering admission to large numbers of students who aren't Catholic (whether or not they play football), much larger and earlier focus on recruiting players for college programs, etc. but it didn't cause the changes to happen.
 
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Let’s compare d1 and d7 efforts against St. Joes prep since they became a dynasty

D1
2022- SJP 48 Garnet Valley 7
2021- SJP 49 Garnet Valley 13
2020- SJP 51 Souderton 43
2017- SJP 53 Coatsville 49
2016- SJP 35 Northpenn 25
2014- SJP 37 Pennsbury 7
2013- SJP 37 Neshaminy 21
0-7

WPIAL
2021- Lebo 35 SJP 17
2019- SJP 31 PCC 24 (OT)
2018- SJP 37 PR 0
2017- PR 41 SJP 21
2016- SJP 42 PCC 7
2014- SJP 49 PR 41
2013- SJP 35 PCC 10
2-5
A familiarity with the actual games would reveal more nuance than the overall records by themselves might indicate. It's also obvious that District 7 did much better against the Prep than District 1.

The 2014 game against PR was really a one-point game that of course could have gone either way. The 2013 game against PCC was much closer than the score indicates--PCC was winning at the half. And in 2016 the Prep was ahead 7-0 a minute before halftime. As for D1, the 2013 game with Neshaminy was much closer than the score suggests. Neshaminy was about to go ahead well into the third quarter when the Prep returned a fumble 99 yards. And in 2016 North Penn was driving toward the Prep end zone when the QB fumbled. SJP scored a last minute TD to make it look more decisive. Of course the Souderton game was really a blowout.
 
only two teams to never give sjp.a game (gv, pennsbury) run outdated one dimensional offenses. its really not rocket science. youre not going to win a state title in PA if you run a wing t/triple option/veer whatever some of there programs do variations of. shouldnt be very controversial
D1
2022- SJP 48 Garnet Valley 7
2021- SJP 49 Garnet Valley 13
2020- SJP 51 Souderton 43
2017- SJP 53 Coatsville 49
2016- SJP 35 Northpenn 25
2014- SJP 37 Pennsbury 7
2013- SJP 37 Neshaminy 21
0-7

WPIAL
2021- Lebo 35 SJP 17
2019- SJP 31 PCC 24 (OT)
2018- SJP 37 PR 0
2017- PR 41 SJP 21
2016- SJP 42 PCC 7
2014- SJP 49 PR 41
2013- SJP 35 PCC 10
2-5
 
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How much better do you think RCHGS will be next year and the year after? Obviously it'll help to have the QB back. Still think the 2007 Roman team was much better than any team they've had since.
Not sure. We lose a bunch. Qb is a freshmen so he’ll continue to develop. We coulda been in the state game had we converted on some empty possessions I thought on offense. Looking at the teams Imhotep played after. UD woulda been a good test.

I think we should have a similar yr to this one. I think we beat everyone in red outside of prep. Depending how we look early I can tell how we’ll be against prep. Well no bc this yr I thought we would be a lot better and that didn’t happen.
 
A familiarity with the actual games would reveal more nuance than the overall records by themselves might indicate. It's also obvious that District 7 did much better against the Prep than District 1.

The 2014 game against PR was really a one-point game that of course could have gone either way. The 2013 game against PCC was much closer than the score indicates--PCC was winning at the half. And in 2016 the Prep was ahead 7-0 a minute before halftime. As for D1, the 2013 game with Neshaminy was much closer than the score suggests. Neshaminy was about to go ahead well into the third quarter when the Prep returned a fumble 99 yards. And in 2016 North Penn was driving toward the Prep end zone when the QB fumbled. SJP scored a last minute TD to make it look more decisive. Of course the Souderton game was really a blowout.
Not saying the WPIAL is bad except for every four years, but I am saying, based on what people in the west are saying, that this year 6A was a very down one in the WPIAL. Rover said much the same about D11, with the added note that it was kind of a fluke that Parkland (the "fifth place team") wound up playing SJP.

I think your post is right in suggesting that in the Philly area there's a lot more happening that's affecting the quality of football at public schools than SJP. I agree the Inter-Ac and the other Catholic schools are a factor. There are also larger demographic and cultural changes happening. Northeast dressing no more than 20 players in the D12 championship game told me something.

One other thing: does anyone doubt that within two years--maybe even one year--of the Prep leaving the PIAA we'd be hearing from Coach A and B and from lots of others (including some people on here) that public school x or y would/could/might beat the Prep if the Prep were still in the PIAA?
I do think there are years prep can get beat. Ask Lebo and pine Richland but a down year for prep is being young and losing to a once in a life time team or losing to another once in a life time team. Those teams come along once in a decade for those schools not every year.
 
I do think there are years prep can get beat. Ask Lebo and pine Richland but a down year for prep is being young and losing to a once in a life time team or losing to another once in a life time team. Those teams come along once in a decade for those schools not every year.
Very true Hausmann. My alma-mater has never won a playoff game going back to 1988 when playoffs began. Too bad we didn't have playoffs when I played.

Does anyone ever question Southern Columbia's success? I believe they are going for 7 titles in the past 8 years. Not bad for a small public school in upstate PA.
 
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only two teams to never give sjp.a game (gv, pennsbury) run outdated one dimensional offenses. its really not rocket science. youre not going to win a state title in PA if you run a wing t/triple option/veer whatever some of there programs do variations of. shouldnt be very controversial
Why can no one in District 1 stop GV’s option offense if it is an outdated offense? Not just talking about this year, you can go back 15 years of GV running this offense with great success.
 
Prep was young last year. They are young this year. The podcast I listen to "a fresh set of downs" are done by eastern pa reporters said prep has anywhere between 25-28 D1 guys. Not all seniors. They are also 2nd right now in the nation with the most NFL players which here shortly they will be #1 I believe. Let's see what trotter, mccord, Harrison, ect.. do. Next year I think they will be the best team in the country including img, mater dei, st Thomas, ect.... To think they run a program like Garnett valley does, north Allegheny, Mt Lebo, north penn is just crazy. Next year they'll have made it to 11 out of 12 state titles and it'll continue to grow. They never have to rebuild like Lebo did this year. Prep would be like if they put a private school in beaver county with the funding and backing to pull all the best players from aliquippa, central valley, and beaver falls. People that defend this and feel it's an even playing field makes me laugh. The Piaa allows it so you can't hate the player hate the game. I guess as of now it's in the rules.
Where you get Prep has 2nd most players in nation at NFL level? If you do some research you might be surprised to find out Wood has more players in nfl. That statement is NOT true.
 
I looked at it wrong. Second most in 2020 draft but they produce a ton of NFL talent and that # will grow. The program really turned up their talent the last decade. You'll have to add trotter, mccord, and Harrison (1st rounder IMO) going to be playing in the league when they come out. Plus they have 20+ D1 kids. They will continue to climb. Woody high use to be up there. I'm talking active current players.
 
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I looked at it wrong. Second most in 2020 draft but they are 7th in NFL and that'll grow. The program really turned up their talent the last decade and that number will grow. You'll have trotter, mccord, and Harrison (1st rounder IMO) going to be playing in the league. I think they can be #1 soon.
This is getting a little like the talk of the Prep having players from three or even four states. (It was an opposing coach in one of the state finals who made the statement about four states.) Also, the guys on that show (nice guys trying hard to promote hs football) who said the Prep has a couple of dozen D1 players were also going a little over the top. These days the "offers" kids get when they're freshmen or even in 8th grade are much more plentiful than offers in the past, and they really don't mean much, i.e. they're not commitments the colleges are bound to. When I look at the Prep's roster, I think you'd have to imagine every player with any chance at all of getting an offer getting one to come up with the number cited. I realize they've got more potential D1 players than any other hs team in the state, but sometimes the talk goes over the top.

As for former Prep guys now in the NFL, is John Reid now on anyone's roster?
 
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So I understand correctly, D1 is bad because they can’t get past the Prep. So the WPIAL is bad outside of every four years, correct? Because they lose 2-3 years then win, lose 2-3 years then win. This argument is so bad. I’m not defending D1 being down. They’re obviously worse off than years previous they are competing with Tep, NG, Prep, InterAc etc. more now than ever to keep the good players at home. Take a school like UDarby who has kids living in district but are literally driving 30-40 mins away to play at Malvern, EA, etc. Prep this year has 2 freshmen who should be at Garnet Valley. So is it realistic to think GV should ever compete with Prep? No. Is that Prep fault? Nope, they play within the rules they’ve been given and kudos to them for doing it the right way. But GV also does it the right way they’re just a boundary school.

And to the poster who said GV would lose to Judge did you watch any game outside of the Prep one? Didn’t judge lose to Pope John Paul? Not a shot at PJP, but come on now man. You sound more like you’re just trying to trash GV than actually making a solid argument.
I’ve seen judge play quite a few teams. No knock against GV ,but they would finish last in PCL red.
 
A familiarity with the actual games would reveal more nuance than the overall records by themselves might indicate. It's also obvious that District 7 did much better against the Prep than District 1.

The 2014 game against PR was really a one-point game that of course could have gone either way. The 2013 game against PCC was much closer than the score indicates--PCC was winning at the half. And in 2016 the Prep was ahead 7-0 a minute before halftime. As for D1, the 2013 game with Neshaminy was much closer than the score suggests. Neshaminy was about to go ahead well into the third quarter when the Prep returned a fumble 99 yards. And in 2016 North Penn was driving toward the Prep end zone when the QB fumbled. SJP scored a last minute TD to make it look more decisive. Of course the Souderton game was really a blowout.
Just an additional point , as Catholic high schools close ,many of those players go to other Catholic or private schools. McD closed and Imhotep got 2 all public players. Wood got 2 all catholic players and roman one. Northeast also benefitted with 2 all public players. Downsizing PCL benefite others for sure.
 
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This is getting a little like the talk of the Prep having players from three or even four states. (It was an opposing coach in one of the state finals who made the statement about four states.) Also, the guys on that show (nice guys trying hard to promote hs football) who said the Prep has a couple of dozen D1 players were also going a little over the top. These days the "offers" kids get when they're freshmen or even in 8th grade are much more plentiful than offers in the past, and they really don't mean much, i.e. they're not commitments the colleges are bound to. When I look at the Prep's roster, I think you'd have to imagine every player with any chance at all of getting an offer getting one to come up with the number cited. I realize they've got more potential D1 players than any other hs team in the state, but sometimes the talk goes over the top.

As for former Prep guys now in the NFL, is John Reid now on anyone's roster?
Falcons practice squad.
 
No, it is not a college team. To begin with, college players are almost all 18-22. High school players are 14-17. That alone is a huge difference. To go back a bit: they lost the first game of the year to St. Thomas Aquinas. Were they a college team then? Were they a college team when they beat Erasmus Hall (a public school from Brooklyn) by seven points? Were they a college team last year when they lost three games--two to public high schools (Milton from GA and ML from PA)? I guess in your view they can't really win since if they score more points than the opponent it's only because they have large unfair advantages and if they lose it's because they're seriously under-performing.
i understand the age difference, i guess you could say SJP are young Jedi's in training

you don't think they have major unfair advantages? come on
 
Very true Hausmann. My alma-mater has never won a playoff game going back to 1988 when playoffs began. Too bad we didn't have playoffs when I played.

Does anyone ever question Southern Columbia's success? I believe they are going for 7 titles in the past 8 years. Not bad for a small public school in upstate PA.
I question their success every year

no way they are totally clean, they have been at least playing for a state title on almost a yearly basis for 30 years

all of the perennial powers have some dirt on their hands, but their fans and apologists will tell you "there's something in the water"
 
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Why can no one in District 1 stop GV’s option offense if it is an outdated offense? Not just talking about this year, you can go back 15 years of GV running this offense with great success.
This isn't a gotcha, its because they all stink. They would lose to most of the Catholic league from 4a up and District 11 6a too
 
i understand the age difference, i guess you could say SJP are young Jedi's in training

you don't think they have major unfair advantages? come on
Of course they have advantages. To some people all advantages are unfair. But they also have some disadvantages. Last year ML made made a point of saying all their players walked--or could walk--to school. This, I suppose, was meant to take a shot at SJP being a non-boundary school. Yes it's an advantage not to have boundaries, but it's a disadvantage to have virtually all your players a 45-90 minute commute from the school. I lived in Jersey when I went to the Prep several decades ago. Was it an advantage that when after returning by bus from our off-site practice location I had at least an hour's trip home ahead of me? Not looking for sympathy just a recognition of reality.
 
Of course they have advantages. To some people all advantages are unfair. But they also have some disadvantages. Last year ML made made a point of saying all their players walked--or could walk--to school. This, I suppose, was meant to take a shot at SJP being a non-boundary school. Yes it's an advantage not to have boundaries, but it's a disadvantage to have virtually all your players a 45-90 minute commute from the school. I lived in Jersey when I went to the Prep several decades ago. Was it an advantage that when after returning by bus from our off-site practice location I had at least an hour's trip home ahead of me? Not looking for sympathy just a recognition of reality.
I think that's a big advantage. It just shows how far prep will go to pull talent. It sucks for the kids and it's a sacrifice to them but it's definitely a huge advantage IMO to the football team.
 
This argument is quite tiresome. Both sides have valid points. I think the following statements are unequivocally true.

1. SJP has more talent than everyone in the state most years. It is clearly a major competitive advantage to not have borders. This fact allows SJP to not feel the full effects of the cyclical nature of high school football.
2. SJP has one of the top coaching staffs in the state.
3. District 1 football is down. A combination of less students, less football players, less multi-sport athletes, losing a few good players per year to a local Catholic/private school, less emphasis on winning by administrations, etc. are contributing to a worse on-field product than a decade ago.
4. Some coaches that go 2-8 do a better job that season than coaches that go 8-2. Sometimes you simply don’t have the horses. Insert CBW of the past few years. To say anything but their staff does a remarkable job would be asinine. They are never beating SJP for the reasons stated above. However, that doesn’t mean they are poorly coached.
5. I’ve seen both SJP and GV play this year. I’d guess there might be one starter on GV that would start for SJP.

I’m not an advocate for removing the catholic schools, nor am I hater when they have success. Also, I’m not an apologist for the decline of some of the public school districts. I’m simply trying to provide a realistic perspective.
I agree prep is the only Catholic school I can think of because of there location and where they draw from that doesn't have down years. A bigger problem is the succuss formula doesn't affect 6A. It only works in the 5 classifications.
 
Of course they have advantages. To some people all advantages are unfair. But they also have some disadvantages. Last year ML made made a point of saying all their players walked--or could walk--to school. This, I suppose, was meant to take a shot at SJP being a non-boundary school. Yes it's an advantage not to have boundaries, but it's a disadvantage to have virtually all your players a 45-90 minute commute from the school. I lived in Jersey when I went to the Prep several decades ago. Was it an advantage that when after returning by bus from our off-site practice location I had at least an hour's trip home ahead of me? Not looking for sympathy just a recognition of reality.
some kids with a long commute to school doesn't make it easier for the kids that can walk to school compensate for their lack of talent, size, skill etc
 
I think that's a big advantage. It just shows how far prep will go to pull talent. It sucks for the kids and it's a sacrifice to them but it's definitely a huge advantage IMO to the football team.
I don't understand. What sucks for which kids? The Prep has to recruit all its students. When I went to the Prep we had kids who took the train every day from Reading and Trenton--none of them were athletes. So it seems you're saying that being attractive enough for students to be willing to make a 100-mile round trip each day is an unfair advantage for SJP. Is that right?
 
some kids with a long commute to school doesn't make it easier for the kids that can walk to school compensate for their lack of talent, size, skill etc
You seem to be saying it's not easier to be able to walk to school than to have to make a long commute if you lack talent, size, or skill. Really?
 
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

I have had numerous email exchanges and phone calls with the PIAA planning committee. I think I have a real shot at joining them

If I get the job, that will be a vote for separation of public and private schools for playoffs.

I have your guys backs
 
I think that's a big advantage. It just shows how far prep will go to pull talent. It sucks for the kids and it's a sacrifice to them but it's definitely a huge advantage IMO to the football team.
Players coming from NJ are not that far away. BTW Do you recall where Juice Scruggs was from ?
 
Players coming from NJ are not that far away. BTW Do you recall where Juice Scruggs was from ?
lil, Few if any of the people complaining about SJP having players from two states come from the Philly area. As you know, the Prep has never hid the fact that it has many students from Jersey. The PIAA knew that when the Prep and the rest of the PCL joined. (A few other PCL schools, e.g. Egan, Roman, and I think NG, have had students from Jersey.) If the PIAA decides all players must be PA residents, the Prep will say good-bye to the PIAA.
 
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funny "what if"

What if SJP loses to harrisburg? That would be 0-2 in the last 2 years, and only 3-3 in the last 6 years? Maybe not perfect?

Let's wait till the story is over- then we can re-debate next week!!
 
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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

I have had numerous email exchanges and phone calls with the PIAA planning committee. I think I have a real shot at joining them

If I get the job, that will be a vote for separation of public and private schools for playoffs.

I have your guys backs
nice- good luck- request... try to get PIAA to give better fan indo, and do more hype for playoffs and championships, than they do for FARM SHOWS!!
 
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

I have had numerous email exchanges and phone calls with the PIAA planning committee. I think I have a real shot at joining them

If I get the job, that will be a vote for separation of public and private schools for playoffs.

I have your guys backs
Whatever - you sound like a governmental STD announcement - you’ve been on the laughing gas since you showed up - seriously, good luck
 
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Whatever - you sound like a governmental STD announcement - you’ve been on the laughing gas since you showed up - seriously, good luck
Laughing gas???? I’m the only one telling facts here

We need the separation of private and public. I’m tired of watching public schools get hammered by the SJP buzzsaw
 
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