USA Today Final Scholastic Football Rankings - 2023

[CAMoleskinner]

Bishop Gorman out of Vegas takes top dog slot; Mater Dei from The OC comes in at three and Philly's SJP snags the number seven position (just ahead of Bellflower's St. John Bosco); Florida lands six in the Top 25 edging out Texas' five:

USA TODAY High School Sports Super 25 football rankings as of Dec. 12, 2023

The 2023 high school football hierarchy holds firm with only one week before the final Super 25.

usatodayhss.com

 

[lilromeo]

Bishop Gorman out of Vegas takes top dog slot; Mater Dei from The OC comes in at three and Philly's SJP takes the number seven position (just ahead of Bellflower's St. John Bosco); Florida lands six in the Top 25 edging out Texas' five:

USA TODAY High School Sports Super 25 football rankings as of Dec. 12, 2023

The 2023 high school football hierarchy holds firm with only one week before the final Super 25.

usatodayhss.com

This states Prep at # 5

 

[CAMoleskinner]

Romeo -

I saw that but it looks like USA Today mistakenly identified SJP as "5" when they are really in seventh position (in chronological order).

Desoto, Texas is actually five just behind IMG.

 

[RCH13co18]

Romeo -

I saw that but it looks like USA Today mistakenly identified SJP as "5" when they are really in seventh position (in chronological order).

Desoto, Texas is actually five just behind IMG.

I would love for a fcs bracket style tournament for hs following the respective seasons. Top 10

 

[CAMoleskinner]

RCH -

That would be pretty cool.

The NFL could pay for it (they keep their own NFL Top 100 high school list to do their part in keeping football relevant -- seems this would roll into their longterm efforts).

Maybe just Final Four with only two extra games for the schools during the Holidays (again - NFL pays for costs - fly teams and parents, hotel, food - and schools get "stipends" paid directly to their athletic departments plus ESPN broadcasts games -- who would turn that down).

I think you just hit on something (Final Four selected by adding up the top national polls).

PS Championship high school games are not new. Back in 1919 Harrisburg Tech played Portland, Maine in what was billed as the "National Championship". The Maroon squad from PA stopped the Bulldogs 56-0 and finished the season undefeated and having outscored its 12 opponents by a combined score of 701-0.

 

[RCH13co18]

RCH -

That would be pretty cool.

The NFL could pay for it (they keep their own NFL Top 100 high school list to do their part in keeping football relevant -- seems this would roll into their longterm efforts).

Maybe just Final Four with only two extra games for the schools during the Holidays (again - NFL pays for costs - fly teams and parents, hotel, food - and schools get "stipends" paid directly to their athletic departments plus ESPN broadcasts games -- who would turn that down).

I think you just hit on something (Final Four selected by adding up the top national polls).

PS Championship high school games are not new. Back in 1919 Harrisburg Tech played Portland, Maine in what was billed as the "National Championship". The Maroon squad from PA stopped the Bulldogs 56-0 and finished the season having outscored its 12 opponents by a combined 701-0.

Would be great for the sport. Plus this eliminates the intrigue with the Cali teams constantly holding the top spots.

 

[Stalker]

Bishop Gorman out of Vegas takes top dog slot; Mater Dei from The OC comes in at three and Philly's SJP snags the number seven position (just ahead of Bellflower's St. John Bosco); Florida lands six in the Top 25 edging out Texas' five:

USA TODAY High School Sports Super 25 football rankings as of Dec. 12, 2023

The 2023 high school football hierarchy holds firm with only one week before the final Super 25.

usatodayhss.com

Hey, where's Lakeland? They recovered from St. Joe's loss to go 12-3 winning another State Title (9th) beating Venice 60-48 in 4S; large school-suburban. Thx for posting Skinner Man.

 

[Fletchster1]

The USA Today Super 25 has lost its luster from what it once was a few decades ago. It's littered with teams built from open borders and states with different rules, so it's difficult to discern who really is the top dog. Youth football is running into the same issues as they continue as more of a national brand - it might be time to go back to local and district playoffs only.

 

[yesman3]

Bishop Gorman out of Vegas takes top dog slot; Mater Dei from The OC comes in at three and Philly's SJP snags the number seven position (just ahead of Bellflower's St. John Bosco); Florida lands six in the Top 25 edging out Texas' five:

USA TODAY High School Sports Super 25 football rankings as of Dec. 12, 2023

The 2023 high school football hierarchy holds firm with only one week before the final Super 25.

usatodayhss.com

CAM…

USA Today not totally credible to me..

Who did Gorman play OOC/OOS that compares to Mater Dei?

Yes, they (BG) went unbeaten, but SOS more meaningful to me. MD consistently plays national powers in/out of state & their league schedule is unmatched to anyone in that top 25…. year after year.

BG is an excellent program, perennially, but SOS should matter. IMO…

 

[Stalker]

CAM…

USA Today not totally credible to me..

Who did Gorman play OOC/OOS that compares to Mater Dei?

Yes, they (BG) went unbeaten, but SOS more meaningful to me. MD consistently plays national powers in/out of state & their league schedule is unmatched to anyone in that top 25…. year after year.

BG is an excellent program, perennially, but SOS should matter. IMO…

YES....It's tough enough trying to rate teams in a district let alone a state or nation! You can come up with something 'reasonable' in a district and state poll. If....and it's a big if, you have a baseline that has to have "eyes on" and historic depth of knowledge to create a baseline. Without a baseline, it means nothing seeing Team X upset Team Y. Who says it's an upset? But the national polls are fun and give some insight into the overall.

 

[CAMoleskinner]

All -

I posted that item more as a "food for thought" note. As it is, I believe I do share the collective thoughts of the Board as to trying to put out a "National Rankings" at the high school level (kind of like the college "National Poll" before playoffs started -- which still get everyone crazy with only four teams picked to play at least until the expansion as is planned which will have too many).

I do think, though, there are some folks out there trying to use some "measurables" in putting these lists together. For instance, I've attached the MaxPrep final rankings just below and you do see similarities in the teams and arrangements (more or less). I think Sports Illustrated has one coming out shortly too.

Anyway, I like the "Final Four" playoffs. They would start the week after all the state championships which would mean two games this weekend (12/15 and 12/16 -- one Friday and one Saturday). Then next weekend on Saturday, 12/23 the National Championship. This year might see Bishop Gorman (NV), Chaminade-Madonna (FLA), Mater Dei (CA), IMG (FLA) in the mix with Gorman/IMG and MD/C-M lining up in the semi-finals and then the two winners the following week.

It would be in Orlando and Disney would be involved along with the NFL and ESPN. I would think that collectively they could underwrite the venture (flights, lodgings, food, practice fields and some stadium in Orlando/Disney World).

It could work (and you'd only have four teams playing an extra game and two teams playing two extra games).

High School Football Rankings

MaxPreps High School Football Rankings. Every High School Football team in the nation is ranked. Find out where your teams stands... Use the "Find my Team" feature to quickly locate your team!

www.maxpreps.com

 

[RCH13co18]

All -

I posted that item more as a "food for thought" note. As it is, I believe I do share the collective thoughts of the Board as to trying to put out a "National Rankings" at the high school level (kind of like the college "National Poll" before playoffs started -- which still get everyone crazy with only four teams picked to play at least until the expansion as is planned which will have too many).

I do think, though, there are some folks out there trying to use some "measurables" in putting these lists together. For instance, I've attached the MaxPrep final rankings just below and you do see similarities in the teams and arrangements (more or less). I think Sports Illustrated has one coming out shortly too.

Anyway, I like the "Final Four" playoffs. They would start the week after all the state championships which would mean two games this weekend (12/15 and 12/16 -- one Friday and one Saturday). Then next weekend on Saturday, 12/23 the National Championship. This year might see Bishop Gorman (NV), Chaminade-Madonna (FLA), Mater Dei (CA), IMG (FLA) in the mix with Gorman/IMG and MD/C-M lining up in the semi-finals and then the two winners the following week.

It would be in Orlando and Disney would be involved along with the NFL and ESPN. I would think that collectively they could underwrite the venture (flights, lodgings, food, practice fields and some stadium in Orlando/Disney World).

It could work (and you'd only have four teams playing an extra game and two teams playing two extra games).

High School Football Rankings

MaxPreps High School Football Rankings. Every High School Football team in the nation is ranked. Find out where your teams stands... Use the "Find my Team" feature to quickly locate your team!

www.maxpreps.com

Max prep I just read are trying to push for a tournament to crown one state champ. Starting with Florida

 

[Stalker]

CA Skinner Man, from your entry above.................
"I do think, though, there are some folks out there trying to use some "measurables" in putting these lists together. For instance, I've attached the MaxPrep final rankings just below and you do see similarities in the teams and arrangements (more or less)."

In think the 'Measurables' they use is the problem. Here are a few examples of things they don't know or consider.

* What was the weather, cold, windy, deluge? Three weeks ago Northern Bedford County shut-out Steel High in the first half per wind and rain until it subsided and the Rollers scored 21 second half pts to win 21-7 after establishing their passing game. Were that a ranking, should the Rollers drop and NBC go up in the polls?
* What off/def do they use and their opponents?
* Coaching issues; first year, does he know the other team's inclinations, etc
* What were the schedule concerns; 3rd straight road game, neutral, same surface type, bye
* What are the rivalries, is it a rivalry game to influence scores and their perception of the team? I doubt they know Manheim Township-Hempfield, Wilson-Gov. Mifflin/Reading are fierce rivalries but likely know about Zaga-St. Johns, McKinley-Massillon, Booker T-Mia Cent, Jenks-Union, etc, etc and others that are well known.
Bottom line, I think they would totally misrepresent CD East hanging with CD and Hempfield doing the same with Township were CD/Twp ranked.
* Seniors, juniors, sophs, froshs
* New OL, senior OL, first year starting quarterback, 1st string injured new starter?

They no doubt have some measurables with the point being they're using the wrong measurable like final score and margins without any knowledge (above) of what went into making that score. That's part of why you see the same teams over and over again in the Top 20; preconceived notions supported by bogus measurables.

 

[CAMoleskinner]

Stalk -

Let me also add that I would be perfectly happy and satisfied with any "poll" or ranking arrangement that you came up with (or have come up with). Maybe I'm being a bit naive and charitable in giving the pollsters credit that they don't deserve. Default positioning and the same teams year over year is the "easy" way out for sure. On the other hand it does seem some teams have runs of success that are hard to argue with when their on-the-field results are tallied.

On another note - if SJP had topped IMG I'm thinking they would have been in the Final Four of the inaugural 2023 playoffs in Orlando, Florida courtesy of Disney World! That would have been cool. We'd all be pulling for the Philadelphia region/Delaware Valley area team then (imagine taking out Mater Dei and all those SoCal boys). And I guess at that level having "regional" teams is the only hope for standing out (Mater Dei, IMG, SJP, etc.).

I'd ask for your stab at the Final Four but I'm worried it might loaded with your Sunshine State cousins (at least Florida "pubs" put together teams from the community that can compete at the "elite level").

 

[Stalker]

Stalk -

Let me also add that I would be perfectly happy and satisfied with any "poll" or ranking arrangement that you came up with (or have come up with). Maybe I'm being a bit naive and charitable in giving the pollsters credit that they don't deserve. Default positioning and the same teams year over year is the "easy" way out for sure. On the other hand it does seem some teams have runs of success that are hard to argue with when their on-the-field results are tallied.

On another note - if SJP had topped IMG I'm thinking they would have been in the Final Four of the inaugural 2023 playoffs in Orlando, Florida courtesy of Disney World! That would have been cool. We'd all be pulling for the Philadelphia region/Delaware Valley area team then (imagine taking out Mater Dei and all those SoCal boys). And I guess at that level having "regional" teams is the only hope for standing out (Mater Dei, IMG, SJP, etc.).

I'd ask for your stab at the Final Four but I'm worried it might loaded with your Sunshine State cousins (at least Florida "pubs" put together teams from the community that can compete at the "elite level".

End of the day, it's just a HS FB ranking. My complaint is they obviously don't know what they're talking about knowing the enormity of the project. How could they possibly know Team A is #9 and Team B #14....unless you involved a super-computer with all the right algorithm, whatever they are!?
That might be as fierce an argument as who's in the Top 10!!!! Look at the idiots who left FSU out of the playoffs and are now being investigated/sued for their clear SEC bias. Don't get me wrong, half the family went to Ga, Fla, Tulane, etc.

If you could come up with a system to rate the teams I guess you'd start with a low # like 6 or 8 with the South and West getting two teams. Then again, there's another argument. Who gets what?
You could go to a larger field if you ended the season earlier at 8 games, getting into the process before bowl games take president. But. they're WAY to many issues for this to happen with state playoffs, rivalries (East-Phil) that are untouchable.