St. Joseph's jumps to #6....USA-Today

[Stalker]

Good for the Hawks, up from #15. Real bias to Cali ball with St. John Bosco moving from #9 to #2 after beating previous 2 Mater Dei 42-28 (although lost to them earlier) who dropped to #4. Believe we viewed some overrate when Hawks blew Oaks doors off but still some good press! Rankings below.

http://usatodayhss.com/rankings/computer/boys/football/US/2016/1

 

[lilromeo]

Good for the Hawks, up from #15. Real bias to Cali ball with St. John Bosco moving from #9 to #2 after beating previous 2 Mater Dei 42-28 (although lost to them earlier) who dropped to #4. Believe we viewed some overrate when Hawks blew Oaks doors off but still some good press! Rankings below.

http://usatodayhss.com/rankings/computer/boys/football/US/2016/1

A great representative of Phia.football. Congratulations on a fine season and ranking.

 

[paul from philly]

Good for the Hawks, up from #15. Real bias to Cali ball with St. John Bosco moving from #9 to #2 after beating previous 2 Mater Dei 42-28 (although lost to them earlier) who dropped to #4. Believe we viewed some overrate when Hawks blew Oaks doors off but still some good press! Rankings below.

http://usatodayhss.com/rankings/computer/boys/football/US/2016/1

St. Joe and Infante deserve a lot a credit. It's one thing to go undefeated but when you do it when everyone is gunning for you, well that is really special. Keeping that edge for three and a half months!! Thanks from Philly!!

 

[Burrs5]

Remember when Infante was first hired and many of the SJP old guard (many no longer here) frowned over his hiring. Some suggesting that he wouldn't succeed. And of course, the voice of reason, yours truly suggested that people take a breath. Well, I guess 3 state titles in 4 years can settle the pessimists just a bit now.

 

[tulla]

Remember when Infante was first hired and many of the SJP old guard (many no longer here) frowned over his hiring. Some suggesting that he wouldn't succeed. And of course, the voice of reason, yours truly suggested that people take a breath. Well, I guess 3 state titles in 4 years can settle the pessimists just a bit now.

Huck, yes I did give Slam a few thoughts in the last while. But I don't think even Slam and the fellow whose son(s) played at Penn--funny how names get elusive after a while--were so opposed to Infante. They just thought Brooks should have been coach for as long as he wanted to be and not be asked/required to do anything differently. It was mostly non-Prep guys who predicted Infante was using the job as a stepping stone and would be gone after 3 or 4 years.

I'm glad that Brooks was invited back a year ago and that he came. He obviously did a lot. As for Infante, I know a lot of people think that once Swift arrived it was easy, but while having a player with such talent is a huge advantage, it can also be a problem for the team. From what I could see Infante managed the situation really well. Credit to all the players, incl. Swift. And in virtually every big game, the team played big and he had a good plan in place. Last weekend was an obvious example, but I also think of how he used Martin when he was so limited by the injury in '13 and how he had great plans for defending against LaSalle when Shurmer (sp?) was their QB.

Next year will be really interesting.

 

[njfan47]

Huck, yes I did give Slam a few thoughts in the last while. But I don't think even Slam and the fellow whose son(s) played at Penn--funny how names get elusive after a while--were so opposed to Infante. They just thought Brooks should have been coach for as long as he wanted to be and not be asked/required to do anything differently. It was mostly non-Prep guys who predicted Infante was using the job as a stepping stone and would be gone after 3 or 4 years.

I'm glad that Brooks was invited back a year ago and that he came. He obviously did a lot. As for Infante, I know a lot of people think that once Swift arrived it was easy, but while having a player with such talent is a huge advantage, it can also be a problem for the team. From what I could see Infante managed the situation really well. Credit to all the players, incl. Swift. And in virtually every big game, the team played big and he had a good plan in place. Last weekend was an obvious example, but I also think of how he used Martin when he was so limited by the injury in '13 and how he had great plans for defending against LaSalle when Shurmer (sp?) was their QB.

Next year will be really interesting.

I was one of the doubters, Tulla, and I was way wrong. Infante has done a great job.

Curious to hear your elaboration on next year being interesting. I assume you mean without Swift, primarily.

 

[tulla]

I was one of the doubters, Tulla, and I was way wrong. Infante has done a great job.

Curious to hear your elaboration on next year being interesting. I assume you mean without Swift, primarily.

But, as I remember, you weren't one of the people who seemed sure Infante would leave as soon as he had some success, e.g, in 2012 or 2013.

You're right. Life after Swift has got to be very different. But I also can't remember when the defense was returning so many very good, experienced players and the offense relatively few. I suspect that by the end of the year the offense will be OK, but I agree with Huck that you can't expect a line with no returning starters to be near to this year's line, at least near the start.

I'll also be interested to see how healthy and competitive the PCL Red is. Maybe Carroll jumps over a few teams. I wonder how competitive Ryan can be. Are Judge and Roman going to get better or worse? I have the sense they're going to be one or the other--just continuing to be OK won't attract and keep talented players. The whole picture could be a lot different.

 

[CYOBALL1]

But, as I remember, you weren't one of the people who seemed sure Infante would leave as soon as he had some success, e.g, in 2012 or 2013.

You're right. Life after Swift has got to be very different. But I also can't remember when the defense was returning so many very good, experienced players and the offense relatively few. I suspect that by the end of the year the offense will be OK, but I agree with Huck that you can't expect a line with no returning starters to be near to this year's line, at least near the start.

I'll also be interested to see how healthy and competitive the PCL Red is. Maybe Carroll jumps over a few teams. I wonder how competitive Ryan can be. Are Judge and Roman going to get better or worse? I have the sense they're going to be one or the other--just continuing to be OK won't attract and keep talented players. The whole picture could be a lot different.

Ryan was relatively young this year, right? They return a 1000 yard rusher in McNeil and some nice skill guys. They lose Romano however they played without him pretty much all season this year with two kids getting some experience.
Judge will be young. QB will probably be Junior Shane Dooley. If anything like his older brother he will be a good one. Steve Arrington returns at WR and Katob Joseph at RB.
Roman will be younger however much more athletic. They will be new offensively. They return RB Cooper, WR McCants and two OL.
Defensively they return freshman starting LB Brian Burton, SS Michel, CB's McCants and Jowers and DT Gibson and Leyland. LB is a question mark for them outside of Burton however what they lack in experience they will gain in athleticism and ability.

I seen Carrolls freshman team play. They were good. They beat SJP at the freshman level. It might not mean a whole lot to some however it gives that group of 9th graders a boost of confidence going forward. They are a talented group. Freshman QB Kamal Grey looks to be the future of that program.

 

[tulla]

Ryan was relatively young this year, right? They return a 1000 yard rusher in McNeil and some nice skill guys. They lose Romano however they played without him pretty much all season this year with two kids getting some experience.
Judge will be young. QB will probably be Junior Shane Dooley. If anything like his older brother he will be a good one. Steve Arrington returns at WR and Katob Joseph at RB.
Roman will be younger however much more athletic. They will be new offensively. They return RB Cooper, WR McCants and two OL.
Defensively they return freshman starting LB Brian Burton, SS Michel, CB's McCants and Jowers and DT Gibson and Leyland. LB is a question mark for them outside of Burton however what they lack in experience they will gain in athleticism and ability.

I seen Carrolls freshman team play. They were good. They beat SJP at the freshman level. It might not mean a whole lot to some however it gives that group of 9th graders a boost of confidence going forward. They are a talented group. Freshman QB Kamal Grey looks to be the future of that program.

Odd that SJP's football website doesn't list a game against Carroll. Are you sure it wasn't LaSalle that Carroll beat? The SJP JVs won 60-0. No doubt Carroll will be more competitive in years to come. Will that be at any particular team's expense?

I guess my questions about Roman, Judge, and Ryan are 1) whether they can get not only some quite talented players but enough good players as well to make it at least to the Red final more than every once ever ten years or so and 2) (maybe another version of question #1) whether the football programs at these schools can keep or get the buy-in any successful football program needs from several parts of the school community.

Do you think Ryan really wants to be in the Red?

 

[CYOBALL1]

Odd that SJP's football website doesn't list a game against Carroll. Are you sure it wasn't LaSalle that Carroll beat? The SJP JVs won 60-0. No doubt Carroll will be more competitive in years to come. Will that be at any particular team's expense?

I guess my questions about Roman, Judge, and Ryan are 1) whether they can get not only some quite talented players but enough good players as well to make it at least to the Red final more than every once ever ten years or so and 2) (maybe another version of question #1) whether the football programs at these schools can keep or get the buy-in any successful football program needs from several parts of the school community.

Do you think Ryan really wants to be in the Red?

I am positive that Carroll's freshman team defeated SJP's freshman team. Not sure why it's not listed on preps site but they definitely beat them. It was the final game of the season.
As for your two part question. I can only answer on the behalf of Roman.
I truly believe with gradual success comes increased buy in from program supporters. This is Murphy's 2nd year back as HC after being rehired in April of his first season back. That's really late to get things going in your first year. Football talent is starting to walk through those doors again. Things are heading in the right direction. Unfortunately it doesn't happen over night!

 

[RCH13co18]

CYO
I heard Haynes and AJ Guyton are both reclassifying, but can't stay at Roman. Any truth to it?

 

[CYOBALL1]

CYO
I heard Haynes and AJ Guyton are both reclassifying, but can't stay at Roman. Any truth to it?

It's been said but I don't think its likely to happen.

 

[6daystosaturday]

RC you can only reclass in one league right?

 

[RCH13co18]

RC you can only reclass in one league right?

Not sure of the ruling. I do know they previously played in DE. They both had a pretty productive year. For a player looking to get looks for the next level Catholic League Red is a great place to be, so I understand why they would want another year.

 

[CYOBALL1]

There's is 0 chance they "reclassify" in the PCL. Perhaps a year of prep school.

 

[6daystosaturday]

Correct, if they are seniors it is on to prep school. Places like VFMA ar

 

[6daystosaturday]

are doing a good job.

 

[btm2070]

Odd that SJP's football website doesn't list a game against Carroll. Are you sure it wasn't LaSalle that Carroll beat? The SJP JVs won 60-0. No doubt Carroll will be more competitive in years to come. Will that be at any particular team's expense?

I guess my questions about Roman, Judge, and Ryan are 1) whether they can get not only some quite talented players but enough good players as well to make it at least to the Red final more than every once ever ten years or so and 2) (maybe another version of question #1) whether the football programs at these schools can keep or get the buy-in any successful football program needs from several parts of the school community.

Do you think Ryan really wants to be in the Red?

Our freshman did lose to Carroll. The original scheduled game was cancelled due to Kairos. Carroll pushed to have the game rescheduled at the end of the year. Carroll brought in some nice freshman this year. One year does not get it done though. Needs to be consistent.

 

[tulla]

Our freshman did lose to Carroll. The original scheduled game was cancelled due to Kyros. Carroll pushed to have the game rescheduled at the end of the year. Carroll brought in some nice freshman this year. One year does not get it done though. Needs to be consistent.

I'm glad Carroll has a very promising class and would, more generally, like to see more PCL games that are competitive to the final whistle.

BTM, I know Duell, Leneghan, and Burrell were freshmen who got varisity playing time for the Prep. Did Stephenson and McGeary get into any varsity games? Any other freshmen?

 

[Stalker]

But, as I remember, you weren't one of the people who seemed sure Infante would leave as soon as he had some success, e.g, in 2012 or 2013.

You're right. Life after Swift has got to be very different. But I also can't remember when the defense was returning so many very good, experienced players and the offense relatively few. I suspect that by the end of the year the offense will be OK, but I agree with Huck that you can't expect a line with no returning starters to be near to this year's line, at least near the start.

I'll also be interested to see how healthy and competitive the PCL Red is. Maybe Carroll jumps over a few teams. I wonder how competitive Ryan can be. Are Judge and Roman going to get better or worse? I have the sense they're going to be one or the other--just continuing to be OK won't attract and keep talented players. The whole picture could be a lot different.

tulla....is Christian Waller ok after the injury? Swift's loss is obvious but CW is quite a back.

 

[tulla]

tulla....is Christian Waller ok after the injury? Swift's loss is obvious but CW is quite a back.

I don't know. I'm pretty sure I saw him--not in uniform--on the sidelines the last couple of games. When he was injured in the first LaSalle game the word came out very quickly that he was done for the year. So really he and Swift were healthy together for one full game and two half-games. I understand he's an excellent wrestler. Hope he can compete before that season is over.

 

[6-2 Stack Monster]

I'm glad Carroll has a very promising class and would, more generally, like to see more PCL games that are competitive to the final whistle.

BTM, I know Duell, Leneghan, and Burrell were freshmen who got varisity playing time for the Prep. Did Stephenson and McGeary get into any varsity games? Any other freshmen?

Carroll freshman team did in fact beat Prep. While that outcome may have been different had the above mentioned Prep 'Freshmen Five' played, it should not diminish what the boys from Carroll accomplished. Nor should it come as a surprise. There are about eight kids on that team that all played together last season and were undefeated CYO champs at Visitation BVM. That team ran roughshod over everyone and had a number of players that we'll be hearing about the next few years, including Gray and Dobrowski (Carroll), McGeary (Prep), Vespe (LaSalle), McDonald (Lansdale Catholic), and Bockrath (Malvern Prep). Both Gray and Dobrowski played for the Little Quakers last year (along with Leneghan and McGeary). Coach Connor has them headed in the right direction, and being a local guy who made it big should be able to attract talent and get buy-in from the kids.

Nevertheless, all five Prep freshmen saw varsity game time, including playoffs. That should pay dividends sooner rather than later.

 

[btm2070]

I'm glad Carroll has a very promising class and would, more generally, like to see more PCL games that are competitive to the final whistle.

BTM, I know Duell, Leneghan, and Burrell were freshmen who got varisity playing time for the Prep. Did Stephenson and McGeary get into any varsity games? Any other freshmen?

The five you mentioned were the freshmen up on varsity. Yes Stephenson and McGeary did get into varsity games but mostly mop up time. All should be very good obviously if up on varsity. Stephenson should fit nicely next to Bryce.

 

[paul from philly]

Carroll freshman team did in fact beat Prep. While that outcome may have been different had the above mentioned Prep 'Freshmen Five' played, it should not diminish what the boys from Carroll accomplished. Nor should it come as a surprise. There are about eight kids on that team that all played together last season and were undefeated CYO champs at Visitation BVM. That team ran roughshod over everyone and had a number of players that we'll be hearing about the next few years, including Gray and Dobrowski (Carroll), McGeary (Prep), Vespe (LaSalle), McDonald (Lansdale Catholic), and Bockrath (Malvern Prep). Both Gray and Dobrowski played for the Little Quakers last year (along with Leneghan and McGeary). Coach Connor has them headed in the right direction, and being a local guy who made it big should be able to attract talent and get buy-in from the kids.

Nevertheless, all five Prep freshmen saw varsity game time, including playoffs. That should pay dividends sooner rather than later.

You know you bring up a point that I think is lost on this board sometimes. Pub guys will say that a group of kids have played together in pound football for years. They will go on to high school together and create a winning atmosphere. That is exactly how CYO football works only the boys come from a number of parishes. Just as pound football is a feeder line to public schools, CYO football is a feeder line to Catholic schools. Just as Stack Monster described it, this bunch of guys have played together from 5th grade on. So don't say those kids were stolen or recruited by the private/Catholic PCL teams. If they were CYO to begin with, they were probably going to a Catholic high school anyway. Granted, there are cases where the player was recruited as is the case for the public schools too These guys all came from Visitation. La Salle's great teams where primarily from St. Genevieve's in Flourtown.

 

[Gang $$ Green]

Paul from Philly on the surface that's how it looks but that's far from the truth. Visitation has 12 affiliate parishes that cover tons of ground. It's no more a CYO program than the man on the moon. It's an AAU all star team made up of any good football player they can find in the footprint and get someone to sign a roster.

The insanity of HS football has long since trickled down into CYO. CYO has no rules. Literally zero. As long as you don't turn 15 by Dec 15th you can play at many of these programs. There aren't many neighborhood programs made up of parish kids. That doesn't exist anymore. The same nonsense at HS level with repeat kids, mercenary kids, transfer kids exists now all the way down to 5th grade level. If any good weight ball player, middle school player, any player at all wants to get on a CYO team so they can get HS exposure there will be no lack of suitors. In fact some of these better players play on three teams and play up to 25 or 30 football games at 11 to 15 years of age.

Also please can we not talk about freshmen results like it's some great predictor of anything. Yes Carroll beat Prep and LaSalle. They also lost to O'Hara. O'Hara shellacked by Roman. Some freshmen are playing up. Some freshmen are grown men who in three years will have little varsity impact at their 5-7 180 pound frame in Red Division. All of this is why you have seen the dawning of HS transfers. Why pay for something projectable when you can pay for a finished product.

I'm a little over the top with how disgusted I am with CYO and PCL football but I have been around it since mid 70's. The current situation is an arms race. Aggregation of talent at super powers to run around with a Hershey Bar. What the hell does it prove other than we have the ability to attract and coach the best players. Infante a great coach and sure seems like he is a excellent role model and molder of men. I would feel that way if he never won a state title. I hate, hate, hate this AAU mentality. That's what our league is from top to bottom. Now it permeates down to lower levels which is a bigger joke for many reasons.

For the league as a whole this is an impending disaster. Infante is great coach. Awesome at what he does. He coaches one team. I would also say Drew Gordon is fantastic. His primary foil. Also was great for game and kids. He left in part because of this arms race. Goes to McDevitt, looks around and sees immediately that this isn't going to work. So we as a collective league lose him. How long till we lose other good ones. Guys at Roman, Judge, Ryan are damn good coaches in their own right. How long do they pour their effort and energy before saying can't fight city hall. A lot of unintended consequences here that affect a lot of kids.

 

[roxychknpoxy]

First off, CYO teams have been clustered for some time now. It's a result of the closure of parishes and is one example in the case of visitation Saint Titus closed and was very close by. There are not 12 parishes associated with visitation. Every CYO team is organized as a cluster because it simply comes down to the numbers. I wouldn't categorize it as an arms race but yet as an evolution. Talent will find its medium in the not too distant future. There's enough to go around, coaching plays a big role.

 

[paul from philly]

Paul from Philly on the surface that's how it looks but that's far from the truth. Visitation has 12 affiliate parishes that cover tons of ground. It's no more a CYO program than the man on the moon. It's an AAU all star team made up of any good football player they can find in the footprint and get someone to sign a roster.

The insanity of HS football has long since trickled down into CYO. CYO has no rules. Literally zero. As long as you don't turn 15 by Dec 15th you can play at many of these programs. There aren't many neighborhood programs made up of parish kids. That doesn't exist anymore. The same nonsense at HS level with repeat kids, mercenary kids, transfer kids exists now all the way down to 5th grade level. If any good weight ball player, middle school player, any player at all wants to get on a CYO team so they can get HS exposure there will be no lack of suitors. In fact some of these better players play on three teams and play up to 25 or 30 football games at 11 to 15 years of age.

Also please can we not talk about freshmen results like it's some great predictor of anything. Yes Carroll beat Prep and LaSalle. They also lost to O'Hara. O'Hara shellacked by Roman. Some freshmen are playing up. Some freshmen are grown men who in three years will have little varsity impact at their 5-7 180 pound frame in Red Division. All of this is why you have seen the dawning of HS transfers. Why pay for something projectable when you can pay for a finished product.

I'm a little over the top with how disgusted I am with CYO and PCL football but I have been around it since mid 70's. The current situation is an arms race. Aggregation of talent at super powers to run around with a Hershey Bar. What the hell does it prove other than we have the ability to attract and coach the best players. Infante a great coach and sure seems like he is a excellent role model and molder of men. I would feel that way if he never won a state title. I hate, hate, hate this AAU mentality. That's what our league is from top to bottom. Now it permeates down to lower levels which is a bigger joke for many reasons.

For the league as a whole this is an impending disaster. Infante is great coach. Awesome at what he does. He coaches one team. I would also say Drew Gordon is fantastic. His primary foil. Also was great for game and kids. He left in part because of this arms race. Goes to McDevitt, looks around and sees immediately that this isn't going to work. So we as a collective league lose him. How long till we lose other good ones. Guys at Roman, Judge, Ryan are damn good coaches in their own right. How long do they pour their effort and energy before saying can't fight city hall. A lot of unintended consequences here that affect a lot of kids.

Gang Green I will agree to a point, but in the old days every one of those parishes fielded their own teams. Now they have to gang together to survive. And I don't think there are 12 parishes in on Visitation. Usually there are at the most 5. Plus they are more restrictive than the PCL. If you're not in those specific parishes you can't just come in and play. Whether the drop in participation is because parents don't want their kids playing ball or what, it is how it is. Programs dropping entire seasons, forfeiting games. That's happening to the pubs too. Plus think back. If you played for your school, practice was right after school. No going home and having your parents drive you to the "pound football" practice at dinner time. Big question is how things will change in say 10 years!

 

[CYOBALL1]

Gang Green I agree with mostly everything you said outside of your take on freshman football.
Yes some teams like SJP have kids playing up at the varsity level. Roman also had a kid, starting MLB at the varsity level as a freshman. I believe that freshman football over time is a good indicator as to how the varsity team will perform. Of course that school also needs to put together a string of good freshman football teams over time and retain those freshman football players!
I'll use Roman as an example. This is pretty crazy but the last time Roman has beaten SJP on the Freshman level was 2004, when they went undefeated at that level.
The last time Roman won the PCL was 2008. When those freshman were then seniors. They beat SJP at NE HS in the PCL championship.

Now with all of that being said, there are some programs that this theory does NOT apply to. Over the past 5 years Roman has beaten LaSalle on the freshman level 5-6 times and twice in one year. Roman hasn't beaten LaSalle on the varsity level in quite some time.
You can look at it both ways I suppose.

 

[Bighead75]

Paul from Philly on the surface that's how it looks but that's far from the truth. Visitation has 12 affiliate parishes that cover tons of ground. It's no more a CYO program than the man on the moon. It's an AAU all star team made up of any good football player they can find in the footprint and get someone to sign a roster.

The insanity of HS football has long since trickled down into CYO. CYO has no rules. Literally zero. As long as you don't turn 15 by Dec 15th you can play at many of these programs. There aren't many neighborhood programs made up of parish kids. That doesn't exist anymore. The same nonsense at HS level with repeat kids, mercenary kids, transfer kids exists now all the way down to 5th grade level. If any good weight ball player, middle school player, any player at all wants to get on a CYO team so they can get HS exposure there will be no lack of suitors. In fact some of these better players play on three teams and play up to 25 or 30 football games at 11 to 15 years of age.

Also please can we not talk about freshmen results like it's some great predictor of anything. Yes Carroll beat Prep and LaSalle. They also lost to O'Hara. O'Hara shellacked by Roman. Some freshmen are playing up. Some freshmen are grown men who in three years will have little varsity impact at their 5-7 180 pound frame in Red Division. All of this is why you have seen the dawning of HS transfers. Why pay for something projectable when you can pay for a finished product.

I'm a little over the top with how disgusted I am with CYO and PCL football but I have been around it since mid 70's. The current situation is an arms race. Aggregation of talent at super powers to run around with a Hershey Bar. What the hell does it prove other than we have the ability to attract and coach the best players. Infante a great coach and sure seems like he is a excellent role model and molder of men. I would feel that way if he never won a state title. I hate, hate, hate this AAU mentality. That's what our league is from top to bottom. Now it permeates down to lower levels which is a bigger joke for many reasons.

For the league as a whole this is an impending disaster. Infante is great coach. Awesome at what he does. He coaches one team. I would also say Drew Gordon is fantastic. His primary foil. Also was great for game and kids. He left in part because of this arms race. Goes to McDevitt, looks around and sees immediately that this isn't going to work. So we as a collective league lose him. How long till we lose other good ones. Guys at Roman, Judge, Ryan are damn good coaches in their own right. How long do they pour their effort and energy before saying can't fight city hall. A lot of unintended consequences here that affect a lot of kids.

Paul from Philly on the surface that's how it looks but that's far from the truth. Visitation has 12 affiliate parishes that cover tons of ground. It's no more a CYO program than the man on the moon. It's an AAU all star team made up of any good football player they can find in the footprint and get someone to sign a roster.

The insanity of HS football has long since trickled down into CYO. CYO has no rules. Literally zero. As long as you don't turn 15 by Dec 15th you can play at many of these programs. There aren't many neighborhood programs made up of parish kids. That doesn't exist anymore. The same nonsense at HS level with repeat kids, mercenary kids, transfer kids exists now all the way down to 5th grade level. If any good weight ball player, middle school player, any player at all wants to get on a CYO team so they can get HS exposure there will be no lack of suitors. In fact some of these better players play on three teams and play up to 25 or 30 football games at 11 to 15 years of age.

Also please can we not talk about freshmen results like it's some great predictor of anything. Yes Carroll beat Prep and LaSalle. They also lost to O'Hara. O'Hara shellacked by Roman. Some freshmen are playing up. Some freshmen are grown men who in three years will have little varsity impact at their 5-7 180 pound frame in Red Division. All of this is why you have seen the dawning of HS transfers. Why pay for something projectable when you can pay for a finished product.

I'm a little over the top with how disgusted I am with CYO and PCL football but I have been around it since mid 70's. The current situation is an arms race. Aggregation of talent at super powers to run around with a Hershey Bar. What the hell does it prove other than we have the ability to attract and coach the best players. Infante a great coach and sure seems like he is a excellent role model and molder of men. I would feel that way if he never won a state title. I hate, hate, hate this AAU mentality. That's what our league is from top to bottom. Now it permeates down to lower levels which is a bigger joke for many reasons.

For the league as a whole this is an impending disaster. Infante is great coach. Awesome at what he does. He coaches one team. I would also say Drew Gordon is fantastic. His primary foil. Also was great for game and kids. He left in part because of this arms race. Goes to McDevitt, looks around and sees immediately that this isn't going to work. So we as a collective league lose him. How long till we lose other good ones. Guys at Roman, Judge, Ryan are damn good coaches in their own right. How long do they pour their effort and energy before saying can't fight city hall. A lot of unintended consequences here that affect a lot of kids.

Paul from Philly on the surface that's how it looks but that's far from the truth. Visitation has 12 affiliate parishes that cover tons of ground. It's no more a CYO program than the man on the moon. It's an AAU all star team made up of any good football player they can find in the footprint and get someone to sign a roster.

The insanity of HS football has long since trickled down into CYO. CYO has no rules. Literally zero. As long as you don't turn 15 by Dec 15th you can play at many of these programs. There aren't many neighborhood programs made up of parish kids. That doesn't exist anymore. The same nonsense at HS level with repeat kids, mercenary kids, transfer kids exists now all the way down to 5th grade level. If any good weight ball player, middle school player, any player at all wants to get on a CYO team so they can get HS exposure there will be no lack of suitors. In fact some of these better players play on three teams and play up to 25 or 30 football games at 11 to 15 years of age.

Also please can we not talk about freshmen results like it's some great predictor of anything. Yes Carroll beat Prep and LaSalle. They also lost to O'Hara. O'Hara shellacked by Roman. Some freshmen are playing up. Some freshmen are grown men who in three years will have little varsity impact at their 5-7 180 pound frame in Red Division. All of this is why you have seen the dawning of HS transfers. Why pay for something projectable when you can pay for a finished product.

I'm a little over the top with how disgusted I am with CYO and PCL football but I have been around it since mid 70's. The current situation is an arms race. Aggregation of talent at super powers to run around with a Hershey Bar. What the hell does it prove other than we have the ability to attract and coach the best players. Infante a great coach and sure seems like he is a excellent role model and molder of men. I would feel that way if he never won a state title. I hate, hate, hate this AAU mentality. That's what our league is from top to bottom. Now it permeates down to lower levels which is a bigger joke for many reasons.

For the league as a whole this is an impending disaster. Infante is great coach. Awesome at what he does. He coaches one team. I would also say Drew Gordon is fantastic. His primary foil. Also was great for game and kids. He left in part because of this arms race. Goes to McDevitt, looks around and sees immediately that this isn't going to work. So we as a collective league lose him. How long till we lose other good ones. Guys at Roman, Judge, Ryan are damn good coaches in their own right. How long do they pour their effort and energy before saying can't fight city hall. A lot of unintended consequences here that affect a lot of kids.

Sounds like the NCAA and the NFL

 

[Gang $$ Green]

First off, CYO teams have been clustered for some time now. It's a result of the closure of parishes and is one example in the case of visitation Saint Titus closed and was very close by. There are not 12 parishes associated with visitation. Every CYO team is organized as a cluster because it simply comes down to the numbers. I wouldn't categorize it as an arms race but yet as an evolution. Talent will find its medium in the not too distant future. There's enough to go around, coaching plays a big role.

Roxy you are reasonable poster. I'm on front lines of this. I'm not making this up. We all know parishes had to bind together. That's not what I'm talking about. Now the play is get multiple affiliates. Hope some of them don't have a PREP or CCD program. Go find great talent wherever you need to. Plant them on a roster that has lax standards and a priest to sign off. Present this as a CYO team. Happening all over the place. Not talking about couple neighboring parishes getting together and field a team with their school and CCD kids. Talking about straight up plucking kids from weight ball, middle school, you name it and putting them in a CYO jersey. Then neatly package your program with a steathly nickname like Gladiators, Romans, Steelers that distance you from host parish and make it flat out AAU. It's a fact. Kids don't have to be have to be affiliated with these parishes or schools at all. We know it's not the old days. This isn't in the same hemisphere as the old days.

Each program plays by their own rules. League only cares that it fields ex number of teams and that its "great' football. So if you are adult apt to put together a super team this is your spot. You do realize that Visitation three years didn't finish the season. They got fed up of getting crushed by the other AAU's and went out and formed "Gladiators" which essentially means get anyone you want. So CYO football is now either go AAU route or get your ass kicked. Kinda similar to PCL. It's an abject disaster and Archdiocese turns a blind eye to it.

Also I'm not making any of this up. Visitation has that many affiliates. Don't take my word for it. Read it below direct from the Times Herald after last years win. Its fact.

The team is made up of players from several area parochial schools: Holy Rosary Regional, Mother Teresa Regional, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Helena and Visitation. CYO players from the following parishes also play for the Gladiators: Epiphany of Our Lord, Holy Saviour, Mother of Divine Providence, Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Titus, Saint Paul and Saint Matthew.

 

[D1football22]

I love the PCL and Pubs (D11 and D1) competing with PCL and PPL. Nothing better. I don't want seperation. Let them play....

However, there is an advantage with a few schools. And I mean just a few..

1. Contraction of the PCL in Philly- Mutlple PCL HS have closed in last few plus years . We know who the are. More players with less options. A few schools have benefited from contraction.
2. Expansion of Public Districts- Central Bucks, Council rock and Downingtown have all split. Imagine Downingtown as a single school? CB West is not the same. Same for CR. Location in Bucks County. A few schools have benefited from expansion in the suburbs.
3. Open enrollemt- PCL open enrollment has created an atmosphere of AAU.. PPL Pubs have created the atmosphere of "I can go anywhere". That increases the opportunity for certain schools. If I can go to "any PPL", maybe I can go to a PCL school? A few have taken advantage of this opportunity. Good for them..
4. Geographic location- Same thing. Being in the right "place" with a great program and coaches, providers an opportunity for certain schools. Bucks and Montco have a plethora of bad public HS football programs. Especially, close to the city. Philly is the same. Most football programs suck. Creating "magnet" programs attracts players. Again, good for those can can attract.

Point is... A few programs can attract. They deserve that based on their record and accomplishments. Taking nothing away from any of them. Great Coaching. Some great schools. And the ability to attract better players.

It is what it is... Coatesville beat LaSalle in 2012. Neshaminy was close in 2013. Pennsbury got drilled in 2014. Parkland beat LaSalle in 2015. NP was close in 2016.

Let them play......

 

[Gang $$ Green]

Gang Green I agree with mostly everything you said outside of your take on freshman football.
Yes some teams like SJP have kids playing up at the varsity level. Roman also had a kid, starting MLB at the varsity level as a freshman. I believe that freshman football over time is a good indicator as to how the varsity team will perform. Of course that school also needs to put together a string of good freshman football teams over time and retain those freshman football players!
I'll use Roman as an example. This is pretty crazy but the last time Roman has beaten SJP on the Freshman level was 2004, when they went undefeated at that level.
The last time Roman won the PCL was 2008. When those freshman were then seniors. They beat SJP at NE HS in the PCL championship.

Now with all of that being said, there are some programs that this theory does NOT apply to. Over the past 5 years Roman has beaten LaSalle on the freshman level 5-6 times and twice in one year. Roman hasn't beaten LaSalle on the varsity level in quite some time.
You can look at it both ways I suppose.

CYO you and I know that having a good freshmen program is paramount to being competitive. My point is this. It means less today than ever. More kids impacting these programs than ever who never played one down of freshmen football where they now have an impact. Transfers, straight to varsity, etc. Parents love hanging their hat on freshmen success as some grand predictor of future glory. Often does not translate. Same with JV records. Meaningless with capital M.

Additionally back in the dark ages I played on a Catholic League freshmen team that went 7-0 and outscored our opponents 229-6. Senior year result, 5-2 and first round playoff loss with same players.

 

[roxychknpoxy]

Roxy you are reasonable poster. I'm on front lines of this. I'm not making this up. We all know parishes had to bind together. That's not what I'm talking about. Now the play is get multiple affiliates. Hope some of them don't have a PREP or CCD program. Go find great talent wherever you need to. Plant them on a roster that has lax standards and a priest to sign off. Present this as a CYO team. Happening all over the place. Not talking about couple neighboring parishes getting together and field a team with their school and CCD kids. Talking about straight up plucking kids from weight ball, middle school, you name it and putting them in a CYO jersey. Then neatly package your program with a steathly nickname like Gladiators, Romans, Steelers that distance you from host parish and make it flat out AAU. It's a fact. Kids don't have to be have to be affiliated with these parishes or schools at all. We know it's not the old days. This isn't in the same hemisphere as the old days.

Each program plays by their own rules. League only cares that it fields ex number of teams and that its "great' football. So if you are adult apt to put together a super team this is your spot. You do realize that Visitation three years didn't finish the season. They got fed up of getting crushed by the other AAU's and went out and formed "Gladiators" which essentially means get anyone you want. So CYO football is now either go AAU route or get your ass kicked. Kinda similar to PCL. It's an abject disaster and Archdiocese turns a blind eye to it.

Also I'm not making any of this up. Visitation has that many affiliates. Don't take my word for it. Read it below direct from the Times Herald after last years win. Its fact.

The team is made up of players from several area parochial schools: Holy Rosary Regional, Mother Teresa Regional, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Helena and Visitation. CYO players from the following parishes also play for the Gladiators: Epiphany of Our Lord, Holy Saviour, Mother of Divine Providence, Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Titus, Saint Paul and Saint Matthew.

I love the PCL and Pubs (D11 and D1) competing with PCL and PPL. Nothing better. I don't want seperation. Let them play....

However, there is an advantage with a few schools. And I mean just a few..

1. Contraction of the PCL in Philly- Mutlple PCL HS have closed in last few plus years . We know who the are. More players with less options. A few schools have benefited from contraction.
2. Expansion of Public Districts- Central Bucks, Council rock and Downingtown have all split. Imagine Downingtown as a single school? CB West is not the same. Same for CR. Location in Bucks County. A few schools have benefited from expansion in the suburbs.
3. Open enrollemt- PCL open enrollment has created an atmosphere of AAU.. PPL Pubs have created the atmosphere of "I can go anywhere". That increases the opportunity for certain schools. If I can go to "any PPL", maybe I can go to a PCL school? A few have taken advantage of this opportunity. Good for them..
4. Geographic location- Same thing. Being in the right "place" with a great program and coaches, providers an opportunity for certain schools. Bucks and Montco have a plethora of bad public HS football programs. Especially, close to the city. Philly is the same. Most football programs suck. Creating "magnet" programs attracts players. Again, good for those can can attract.

Point is... A few programs can attract. They deserve that based on their record and accomplishments. Taking nothing away from any of them. Great Coaching. Some great schools. And the ability to attract better players.

It is what it is... Coatesville beat LaSalle in 2012. Neshaminy was close in 2013. Pennsbury got drilled in 2014. Parkland beat LaSalle in 2015. NP was close in 2016.

Let them play......

These are both very good posts. I'm very familiar with all of those parishes. Frankly, it's been 12 years since I was involved and it sounds like it evolved.

To scrutinize further to a point I hope, if a player is good and the parents want to get him exposed on the next level as a matter of progression then CYO is a good fit versus Pound ball, whether the player is good or not. And to take it further, the parents are willing to invest time and money to help the child reach their goals. The question becomes the process to reach those goals.

 

[thestacheisback]

I don't subscribe to the Freshman success either. Also back in the dark ages our freshman team lost 1 game and it was to Wood and on their field. Didn't translate to later success. Many factors like coaching and the ability to actually do it come into play. We also had the problem of transfers to Public League team in the area. I was at North and Frankford was dominant back then so the allure of playing there did attract a few players but not as much as you'd think. It's different today. If you're a frosh and can play you're going to be up on the Varsity. Transfers still a problem today but not sure if it's all due to the same reasons as it was way back when. Nowadays finances come into play but in a different way. As in another school is gonna finance your stay at their school if you're good enough. I don't think anybody paid for players back then. At least I've never heard of it but you never know. I do believe that some players top out as frosh as far as growth and development.