signing day

[00shoe]

Article in the Morning call states that PSU went out of state for talent before of sub-par football talent in PA. Temple & other schools in DI or FCS the same few signings. Not a surprise if anyone has watched HS football in this state the last few years.

 

[Salvucci]

Shoe

Don't fall for the James spin...Just in last 4-5 years and just off the top of my head there have been plenty of top tier players that could have contributed to PSU and for sure temple and I know I'm missing a bunch.

Swift and Webb UGA
Z Franklin Syracuse
Reid, Cooper, Bates, PSU
Hornibrooks Wisconsin and Stanford
Peoples Va Tech
Zachaeus UVA
Shurmur Vandy
Russo and Yebeoh Temple
Pitts FLA
Blackshear and Young Rutgers
Garwo BC
Jurkovic ND
Fleming #1 receiver in country class of 2020
Morrissey Pitt many schools missed on
McGuire Clemson
Runyon MIchigan

Just a very small sample of mostly only SEPA. Last few years in line with most era's with top tier, however I agree that there are the haves and have nots and the have nots are not nearly as good as past era's for sure....I know there are many others I haven't mentioned that could play at PSU. I don't think it helps PSU to slam PA talent just because they missed on a lot of PA's best.

 

[00shoe]

There are about 500 HS in PA. playing football. Division I schools (120) sign about 2400 players a year. Many of the players you named signed 3/4 years ago.
Your list names very few players when compared to the number signed.

 

[Salvucci]

Again my list is no where near comprehensive of kids that signed D1 across the state, if your going to put numbers to it. Just a very small sample. PA football has been declining for years for many reasons, but point of post was that James has missed on many and pretends there is not talent in PA. That will not help him overcome his record against, OSU, M, and MSU, u need to win in your back yard.

 

[yesman3]

Again my list is no where near comprehensive of kids that signed D1 across the state, if your going to put numbers to it. Just a very small sample. PA football has been declining for years for many reasons, but point of post was that James has missed on many and pretends there is not talent in PA. That will not help him overcome his record against, OSU, M, and MSU, u need to win in your back yard.

I believe Franklin is referring to the high-end talent? Like the one's littered on the tOSU and Michigan recruiting classes.

Pennsylvania had one (1) football player listed in the Rivals 250 recruiting rankings this cycle/year. McGuire from Malvern Prep rated at #216.

 

[Coach Joe73]

I grew up in PA - Southeast PA philly area. Been coaching on Northern VA for almost 20 years. I have sent players back to back to PSU over past two years. Franklin and his staff do an unbelievable job of recruiting our area. That said Franklin made it clear at his press conference that PA was down - Especially WPIAL. PSU is killing it in our area. Three of the top 4 players in our state signed with PSU. Two of them 5 stars. PA is down and has been trending down for around 25 years.

 

[RoverNation05]

I like to use 247 Sports Composite rankings, because its an aggregation of all the major recruiting services rankings and stars (more data points are better than 1 for gauging consensus on kids). Here are the composite 4 and 5 stars in PA by year in their database (the kinds of kids Franklin is targeting in state)

2019: 4 (Penn State 2/4)
2018: 11 (Penn State 6/11)
2017: 9 (Penn State 3/9)
2016: 9 (Penn State 3/9)
2015: 9 (Penn State 6/9)
2014: 8 (Penn State 0/8)
2013: 10 (Penn State 1/10)
2012: 12 (Penn State 1/12)
2011: 8 (Penn State 1/8)
2010: 11 (Penn State 7/11)
2009: 10 (Penn State 1/10)
2008: 15 (Penn State 3/15)
2007: 9 (Penn State 3/9)
2006: 15 (Penn State 4/15)
2005: 6 (Penn State 1/6)
2004: 10 (Penn State 4/10)
2003: 8 (Penn State 3/8)
2002: 11 (Penn State 3/11)
2001: 10 (Penn State 2/10)

Franklin is right - this is the least high end talent Pennsylvania has had since these rankings started. But the last few years have been pretty average in terms of 4 and 5 star guys coming out of our state. The thing that jumps out to me is how few of PA's top kids go to Penn State. I'll do a list of the 5 star kids and where they go, because just taking a spin through, Penn State misses A LOT of these guys.

The other thing (I'll try to look at this too) is a lot of the diamond-in-the-rough 3 star types who pop tend to do so at other schools. I mostly noticed because Malik Hooker and Aaron Donald were the top ranked 3 stars in each of their respective classes. Obviously both were All Americans and 1st round picks. I'm going to do a spin through to see how Penn State does in this front as well. But he's the early info I gathered.

 

[RoverNation05]

5 Stars
2000: Jeff Smoker (Manheim Central) - Michigan State
2001: Kevin Jones (Cardinal O'Hara) - Virginia Tech
2001: Cecil Howard (McKeesport) - Syracuse
2001: Marlin Jackson (Sharon) - Michigan
2001: Tim Massaquoi (Parkland) - Michigan
2004: Dan Connor (Strath Haven) - Penn State
2004: Anthony Morelli (Penn Hills) - Penn State
2004: Chad Henne (Wilson West Lawn) - Michigan
2004: James Bryant (Reading) - Miami (FL)
2005: Justin King (Gateway) - Penn State
2005: Callahan Bright (Harriton) - Florida State
2005: Marques Slocum (West Catholic) - Michigan
2006: LeSean McCoy (Bishop McDevitt) - Miami (FL)
2008: Terrelle Pryor (Jeannette) - Ohio State
2008: Jonathan Baldwin (Aliquippa) - Pitt
2009: Dorian Bell (Gateway) - Ohio State
2010: Sharrif Floyd (George Washington) - Florida
2012: Noah Spence (Bishop McDevitt) - Ohio State
2012: Rushel Shell (Hopewell) - Pitt
2013: Robert Foster (Central Valley) - Alabama
2016: Miles Sanders (Woodland Hills) - Penn State
2017: D'Andre Swift (St. Joseph's Prep) - Georgia
2018: Micah Parsons (Harrisburg) - Penn State
2020: Julian Fleming (Southern Columbia) - Uncommitted
2021: Marvin Harrison Jr. (St. Joseph's Prep) - Uncommitted

Penn State has only landed 5 of the 23 five star players from Pennsylvania this century. For comparison's sake, Ohio State has landed 18 of the 27 five stars in Ohio in the same period of time. Michigan has landed 7 of the 14 five stars from Michigan.

 

[Stalker]

I like to use 247 Sports Composite rankings, because its an aggregation of all the major recruiting services rankings and stars (more data points are better than 1 for gauging consensus on kids). Here are the composite 4 and 5 stars in PA by year in their database (the kinds of kids Franklin is targeting in state)

2019: 4 (Penn State 2/4)
2018: 11 (Penn State 6/11)
2017: 9 (Penn State 3/9)
2016: 9 (Penn State 3/9)
2015: 9 (Penn State 6/9)
2014: 8 (Penn State 0/8)
2013: 10 (Penn State 1/10)
2012: 12 (Penn State 1/12)
2011: 8 (Penn State 1/8)
2010: 11 (Penn State 7/11)
2009: 10 (Penn State 1/10)
2008: 15 (Penn State 3/15)
2007: 9 (Penn State 3/9)
2006: 15 (Penn State 4/15)
2005: 6 (Penn State 1/6)
2004: 10 (Penn State 4/10)
2003: 8 (Penn State 3/8)
2002: 11 (Penn State 3/11)
2001: 10 (Penn State 2/10)

Franklin is right - this is the least high end talent Pennsylvania has had since these rankings started. But the last few years have been pretty average in terms of 4 and 5 star guys coming out of our state. The thing that jumps out to me is how few of PA's top kids go to Penn State. I'll do a list of the 5 star kids and where they go, because just taking a spin through, Penn State misses A LOT of these guys.

The other thing (I'll try to look at this too) is a lot of the diamond-in-the-rough 3 star types who pop tend to do so at other schools. I mostly noticed because Malik Hooker and Aaron Donald were the top ranked 3 stars in each of their respective classes. Obviously both were All Americans and 1st round picks. I'm going to do a spin through to see how Penn State does in this front as well. But he's the early info I gathered.

Rover, 'about how few PA kids go o PSU'; I'd guess there has to be carryover effect from the Sandusky/Paterno debacle that stained the program unless the exodus predates that. These things can linger and leave a residue.

 

[RoverNation05]

I don't think it's a Sandusky fallout thing - 2008 was years before and 3 out of 15 four stars in PA was a thing that really hurt the program (that included missing Terrell Pryor and Jonathan Baldwin who were two of the top 13 players in the country). Hell, in 2001 they only got 1 out of 10 - this is a lot of years running. Even this year, the top two kids in the state (Kristofic from Pine-Richland and White from Harrisburg) both are going out of state. Not to say Penn State didn't have other linebackers and guards high on their board, but so much of college football is about winning your geography.

It's also about evaluating the under the radar guys in your state. Not to keep comparing to Ohio State, but they've had a lot of three star Ohio kids really pop and become great players. Pat Elflein, Darron Lee, Devin Smith, Tyvis Powell, Thayer Munford, Cardale Jones - all three star or less players who were college stars. Elflein, Lee, and Smith were all taken in the first two rounds of the NFL draft, and Munford might go that high in the next few years (started at left tackle as a true sophomore). Going back even further, AJ Hawk and Troy Smith were also "last guy in the recruiting class" types who were big hits in projection and evaluation of local talent.

Pennsylvania has kids like that. Aaron Donald. Malik Hooker. Darrelle Revis. Matt Ryan. James Conner. DJ Moore. Jon Runyan Jr. But not many of them are finds by Penn State. Posluzny and Sean Lee were really the last two guys I'd say were awesome evaluations of in-state kids who became stars without big recruiting pedigrees. I'm saying you are going to hit on every kid like that you take a risk on athletically. But Penn State doesn't seem to have a great conversion rate on those kids.

 

[Stalker]

I don't think it's a Sandusky fallout thing - 2008 was years before and 3 out of 15 four stars in PA was a thing that really hurt the program (that included missing Terrell Pryor and Jonathan Baldwin who were two of the top 13 players in the country). Hell, in 2001 they only got 1 out of 10 - this is a lot of years running. Even this year, the top two kids in the state (Kristofic from Pine-Richland and White from Harrisburg) both are going out of state. Not to say Penn State didn't have other linebackers and guards high on their board, but so much of college football is about winning your geography.

It's also about evaluating the under the radar guys in your state. Not to keep comparing to Ohio State, but they've had a lot of three star Ohio kids really pop and become great players. Pat Elflein, Darron Lee, Devin Smith, Tyvis Powell, Thayer Munford, Cardale Jones - all three star or less players who were college stars. Elflein, Lee, and Smith were all taken in the first two rounds of the NFL draft, and Munford might go that high in the next few years (started at left tackle as a true sophomore). Going back even further, AJ Hawk and Troy Smith were also "last guy in the recruiting class" types who were big hits in projection and evaluation of local talent.

Pennsylvania has kids like that. Aaron Donald. Malik Hooker. Darrelle Revis. Matt Ryan. James Conner. DJ Moore. Jon Runyan Jr. But not many of them are finds by Penn State. Posluzny and Sean Lee were really the last two guys I'd say were awesome evaluations of in-state kids who became stars without big recruiting pedigrees. I'm saying you are going to hit on every kid like that you take a risk on athletically. But Penn State doesn't seem to have a great conversion rate on those kids.

PSU has always been a tough sell especially now with a far higher number of venues fielding competitive teams. As a kid, who ever heard of UCF, USF, Boise and many others across the country that now field competent teams including Temple that was once an absolute doormat. Many former doormats are now atleast competitive; Okla St, Nwestern, Mizzou, Ind, TCU, Hou, Minn, Pur, Wash St, Oregon, Stanford, Temple, Iowa St. All auto wins back in the day. They got that way with good players, players that used to go to LSU, Bama, Ga, OSU, Mich, FSU, Tex, Okla, Neb, Ucla, USC, Ark, Notre Dame, etc, etc; the old power base that dominated college football, almost exclusively….for years.

Today you can go to a former doormats, be in an excellent program and in some cases play right away with a good likelihood of being on TV and going to a bowl game. These are major changes I feel dramatically altered the landscape of college football to what it is now. Competition in its varied forms drives this, allowing a kid far more options than 30 years ago. Today you do not have to sit behind Tua and Jalen.

 

[district1elite]

Plenty of 5 star players don’t pan out too. 2,3,4 star players sometimes turn out to be really 5 star type players on the right program. A lot of talent goes unnoticed. It’s about finding the right players to fit the program and scheme. I’m not a big fan of the top 250 players or whatever. Sure, their all talented but it’s so hard to grade top 250 in the whole country with the amount of players across the country playing high school football.