Rumor mill...

FJ78

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Dec 5, 2009
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He won't leave unless they fire him. And I don't want to say they won't do it, but I will believe it when I see it. Same at Ryan, I'll believe it when I see it. Both schools took forever parting ways with their previous coaches.
 

FJ78

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CYO I have heard the same rumor also. The difference is I hear some people say McKay is quitting due to lack of support from admin. Then I hear others saying they are going to "fire" him. I am saying that he will not quit, this is the only job he has ever wanted. If there is a resignation it will be because he was asked to. I also have a hard time believing that he will be asked that because I don't believe the administration cares about athletics. Judge was rumored for a coaching change almost every year towards the end of the last coaching regime. And even that change came because the coach left for a better situation.
 

6daystosaturday

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I don't know. Hearing the admin doesn't care about athletics on a school that puts out 16 sports teams doesn't sound right. Do they care about it above their mission? Prob not. The reality is that they probably won't ever beat LS or Prep. Just like the reality is they prob will never make the final four at the Palestra in hoops. Do they recruit? Prob not as much as you want. Can they? Ok same kid gets contacted by Prep, LS, and 4 of the 6 inter ac teams. Where does Judge fit in that? Is their still glory by staying in the neighborhood and going to judge? I'd like to think so but reality says no. Judge is in a tough football spot. You start the season every year with 3 losses, and best case is a good showing in the first round of the 6a playoffs.
That's a fact.
 
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Gang $$ Green

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Without a significant financial commitment from alumni, admin etc these are brutally tough jobs. Roman, Judge, Ryan all caught in the middle against the Preps, LaSalles, and Woods of the world.

Unless there is a Biff Poggi type who can provide their own funding or have access to large committed donor based these jobs are DOA. To compete in Red you can't go out and get 8 players and even get a sniff. The insanity of this setup is the bottom of the Red is the absolute worst place to be in whole league.

Judge wins three games and one is against a 6a District One playoff team. So in District One terms they are right there. In District 12 terms they are Vanderbilt in PCL Red Division.

One of the unintended consequences of PCL going into PIAA is that McDevitt, Conwell Egan and Neumann Goretti are better jobs than Ryan, Judge and Roman. That is not good for the league as a whole. But realistically there is no league anymore. Just a loose grouping to schedule some games before PIAA playoffs in football.

Here's who fits the profile of what would make a great fit for one of these jobs. Independently very wealthy guy who knows x's and o's, has ties to or can connect with other wealthy alums, has the free time to make it his lifes work, has a dynamic personality to connect with kids, parents and most importantly assistant coaches, and is willing to check their ego when their success ruffles their school admins egos because they are becoming face of school, and can deal with any backwater insanity from Archdiocese downtown.

How long is that list of people? Like finding a white rhino. Once these schools find their Biff Poggi or Joe Moglia they will vault into national prominence.
 
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6daystosaturday

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In a short amount of time, it has become clear McDevitt is far and away a better job than Judge/Ryan/Roman. GG you are on point. There is no more league. When the Wood coach says after a loss to the Prep that he is not worried about anything not 5A, that is all you need to know. At least Carroll got the heck out of Red. Even if they don't win, they feel like they have a shot.
 
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SPEED&JUMP DR.

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Im certainly not a PCL expert, and I understand both both LaSalle and St Joes being the creme de la creme both academically and athletically compared to the rest of the PCL. But why cant Judge/Ryan compete with the likes of a Wood? At one point, Wood was a cellar dweller in the PCL until they made the commitment to bringing in better coaches and better players. Im assuming the school and facilities are similar, the academics similar, the cost similar, the geography similar being within 10 miles of each other. So why cant ( or wont) Judge/Ryan compete for the same kids Wood is getting knowing that Wood wasn't always getting those type kids?
 

FJ78

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I'm not sure if it is still the same, but as recently as 2 years ago the football team was not allowed to lift after school. The weight room had to be open to ALL students after school because of the fitness initiative. I believe the football team started lifting at 5pm. Judge has the best potential alumni outside of Prep. Maybe it is too late to get back to being competitive enough to challenge Prep/LS/Wood and starting getting kids. But 10 years ago that 08 team had as much, if not more talent than anyone. If they had an administration who made football a priority, and the right coach, they would have been able to compete.
 

CYOBALL1

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In a short amount of time, it has become clear McDevitt is far and away a better job than Judge/Ryan/Roman. GG you are on point. There is no more league. When the Wood coach says after a loss to the Prep that he is not worried about anything not 5A, that is all you need to know. At least Carroll got the heck out of Red. Even if they don't win, they feel like they have a shot.
There is no coincidence as to why McDevitt is better than Roman, FJ and Ryan. Coach Watkins is a great coach and even better program builder. He’s not coaching at McDevitt with an open check book. He’s built that program from the bottom up and has complete buy in from all of his kids and coaches.
The right guy with a little LITTLE bit of help from administration can get it done at Roman. Can’t talk for FJ but I know it can be done at Roman.
 
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6daystosaturday

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CYO I hate to disagree with you because I almost always agree. But McDevitt has a realistic shot to compete to win the blue PCL and a path to state playoffs even if they don't. Roman and Judge will never win a PCL because they will never beat LS, Prep, and Wood in a year and their absolute best upside is to somehow beat LS or Prep in the first playoff game...they will never be able to beat them both. As said above, Vandy will never win the SEC. This is like having a conversation about how new member Devon Prep can win a hoops title. That is never ever going to happen.
 

CYOBALL1

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CYO I hate to disagree with you because I almost always agree. But McDevitt has a realistic shot to compete to win the blue PCL and a path to state playoffs even if they don't. Roman and Judge will never win a PCL because they will never beat LS, Prep, and Wood in a year and their absolute best upside is to somehow beat LS or Prep in the first playoff game...they will never be able to beat them both. As said above, Vandy will never win the SEC. This is like having a conversation about how new member Devon Prep can win a hoops title. That is never ever going to happen.
I can see your perspective. But remember 2 years ago. Roman LaSalle at PW. Lasalle bailed out and given 3 opportunities to win that game. I don’t bring this up because of the outcome but more from the perspective that the talent differential between Roman and LaSalle was not wide. Same season Roman loses to Prep(without Swift) by 12.
Can I sit here and say yeah it’s acheiveable for Roman to knock off prep wood and LaSalle in year 1 or 2 of the new coaching regime, no. But you start by consistently beating Ryan, Judge and everyone else. Then mix in a win against a LaSalle or wood here and there and now your kids believe. And more importantly your alumni buy in which can lead to assistance.
 

6daystosaturday

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CYO that loss to LS killed me. Ace Carter had it on twitter and kept tweeting LS kicking field goals on the same play! But here is what really killed me.
Playoff game Roman loses to Prep 45-7. That was a really decent Roman squad. And it isn't like the old playoff system where it was a big deal to make the playoffs, with an atmosphere. It's just a death march. Hell that year I swore to anyone that would listen that Judge was waiting to be LS in the playoffs. And then blah...routine double digit loss. I'm losing faith my man.
 

Gang $$ Green

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Im certainly not a PCL expert, and I understand both both LaSalle and St Joes being the creme de la creme both academically and athletically compared to the rest of the PCL. But why cant Judge/Ryan compete with the likes of a Wood? At one point, Wood was a cellar dweller in the PCL until they made the commitment to bringing in better coaches and better players. Im assuming the school and facilities are similar, the academics similar, the cost similar, the geography similar being within 10 miles of each other. So why cant ( or wont) Judge/Ryan compete for the same kids Wood is getting knowing that Wood wasn't always getting those type kids?
Two reasons. First $$$$. Second Wood already established as destination spot and is AAAAA vs AAAAAA. So before the transfer rules established kids would move to Wood to win a title.

These situations all start the same. A financial commitment is made to a program to go get players. You have to entice kids to the program that isn't at top of heap. Then as you win you will get more people willing to pay but there always is a huge financial element to this in the shadows on continous basis. Wood did well there and got some very good players, established a big winning culture etc. Once it's rolling and you win states it becomes a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. But there are both large start up costs and ongoing financial commitments that need to be met.

Here's another element most don't fully comprehend. Other than LaSalle and Prep all these schools operate fully under the auspices of the Archdiocese. In theory everyone understands that. What that means is for each pupil the individual school owes downtown the base rate tuition for the pupil. I believe that number is about 8 grand a kid. Archdiocese allows the schools to fund raise, there is aid available through the system but there is no control over your budget. So while a private school can add a chair and make a business decision as to what to charge/not charge the system schools can't do that. FAFSA need based aid through Archdiocese, yes. Blocs money through Archdiocese based on need, yes. Blocs money through school based on need, yes. Private monies raised by school regardless of need, yes.

The system is littered with athletes who have not paid the tuition because private aid was promised and comes up short. Many kids end up leaving over situations like this in multiple sports. Coaches leave with large tuition deficits etc. If everyone knew how many of these schools are in arrears on the base tuition over the years they would be shocked.

The system is a mess for many reasons. You want to win football games at the bigger schools you need a big budget AND have to find kids who qualify for archdiocese aid and can play. When I say big budget I mean tuition assistance of more than 6 figures privately every single year. The only way these schools will compete with Prep or LaSalle for kids is to pay for them in multiple ways. May be harsh but believe me that is reality.
 

new2pa

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Question: From an uniformed read, it could be inferred that the statement: “private monies raised by schools regardless of need” means “athletic scholarships”.

Is that practically true?
 

Gang $$ Green

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Two things. Schools raise monies away from archdiocese and can distribute how they want. At school level. A committee distributes the money. Can be based on academics, legacy etc. School kicks the money downtown to archdiocese for base rate and family gets the discount. Adiitionally state tax money can be allocated to individual schools and school can allocate that as they please as long as family meets the criteria under state program.

Additionally there are private athletic based booster clubs. They privately raise money. That money is allocated in that specific sport to go get players and reduce or alleviate tuition. So checks are written directly to school bursar and a list is given whom to allocate the money to. Been going on for years at privates, parochial, hell even public schools for out of district tuition kids.

Are kids getting money off tuition for athletic prowess. Absolutely yes. Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge and understand that is certifiably clueless to the real world. However there are also kids with fake addresses renting over some pizza place to attend public school for football, lacrosse, etc who have never slept a night there. But yes if you are good at football there will be opportunities afforded to you in SEPA to go to a tuition based school for cheaper than if you play the clarinet.
 

tulla

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Two things. Schools raise monies away from archdiocese and can distribute how they want. At school level. A committee distributes the money. Can be based on academics, legacy etc. School kicks the money downtown to archdiocese for base rate and family gets the discount. Adiitionally state tax money can be allocated to individual schools and school can allocate that as they please as long as family meets the criteria under state program.

Additionally there are private athletic based booster clubs. They privately raise money. That money is allocated in that specific sport to go get players and reduce or alleviate tuition. So checks are written directly to school bursar and a list is given whom to allocate the money to. Been going on for years at privates, parochial, hell even public schools for out of district tuition kids.

Are kids getting money off tuition for athletic prowess. Absolutely yes. Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge and understand that is certifiably clueless to the real world. However there are also kids with fake addresses renting over some pizza place to attend public school for football, lacrosse, etc who have never slept a night there. But yes if you are good at football there will be opportunities afforded to you in SEPA to go to a tuition based school for cheaper than if you play the clarinet.
It also should be noted that tuition at LaSalle and Prep is more the double--and may be triple--what it is at the archdiocesan schools. Both schools therefore have to give substantial tuition assistance to students from families whose incomes are not high, i.e, some lower-middle and even middle-middle income families as well as lower income families. Now it should be no news to anyone that many of the most promising students athletes who play football and basketball are from families who are not from high income or upper-middle income families. That means those students, like other students who are not athletes but who are from families with same financial needs, qualify for tuition support. That does not mean there isn't, as GG indicates, other money from alumni and others that offers further tuition reduction. In some cases, however, a student who is a football or basketball player, may qualify for full or nearly full tuition support--entirely separate from any support from any special "booster" type fund.

My main point is that it's a fairly complicated picture. It might also be useful to note that even in cases where a student attends tuition-free there are usually other fees (e.g. for transportation and books) that students at public schools do not pay. Those fees are not chicken-feed.
 

btm2070

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The Roman job, with the right coach and a commitment from the school, they could and should be better than SJP and LaSalle. Right off the get go, Roman's new coach is hamstrung. He will be responsible to RAISE 40% of the football budget. That is for all sports at Roman not just football. I can assure you that a present member of SJP coaching staff applied last time job was open, I know he asked about traveling to play games, it would have been on a smaller scale, not flying. Equivalent to what Wood does. In any event, said coach did not get a second interview. How to you expect to compete with SJP/LaSalle if you won't at the very least try and follow what would has done? For instance Wood traveled to play Bergen Catholic at Rutgers. Roman can get kids from New Jersey, Northeast, South Philly, Northwest, Delco, parts of Montgomery County. They should be able to COMPETE. If they are serious they will reach out to SJP coach who is a Roman graduate, and is a very good coach!
 
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Gang $$ Green

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You have to look at this like you are starting a business. Because that is what it is and the capital commitment is the same. This is a classic barrier to entry for place like Roman in football. Given where they are they have to entice talent to go there over Prep, Lasalle and entire Inter Ac and PCL etc.

The only way to really do that is to make Roman stand out by having the price be a way better option for football kids then the other places until you get it rolling. So let’s say you wanted to offer a 6 grand discount(who knows if that’s enough) and go get 15 players a class. When it’s up and operational it’s 360k a year. Now add any additional equip, travel, coaching stipends, etc it gets astronomical quickly and must be sustained.

So again two problems at place like Roman. Tend to doubt they have 400k laying around waiting to be commited to right football guy. So said guy has to underwrite it himself or go raise it. Another set of land mines here. Roman still has to pay Arch set rate for each pupil. So admin can’t say hey we are making a push we will take less from football kids for next 6 years to get football on the radar. So while they can commit some of their school raised funds to the cause the money still has to be there.

So coach has to fill the gap and find donors or write his own check. Problem is when you go find those donors they better not already be giving to the general fund of school or other Avenue. Once the coach gets in the way of arch or president fundraising and they are competing for same dollars the hammer directive falls. So how many unique donors can one find who aren’t already giving to the school to fund a 400k a year budget. Not many. You have to find some very unique people and it’s a small group.

Bottom line all these schools already raising money as hard as they can. The presidents don’t want splinter groups because they want every dime in general fund. So these splinter groups get major pushback at Arch level. The money it takes to do this at football level involves big assistance for 25 to 65 kids to get them to come to a Roman over schools winning now and providing private education. No schools general fund is going to make that commitment.

They tell a young coach full of vigor go raise your own money. That effort starts until it’s in a format Arch doesn’t like or a donor who they already have wants to allocate his money to football. The wheels spin, coach finally gets frustrated, president isn’t raising enough of his own money and everybody cycles out to rinse and repeat.

The Arch system is broken. Schools have some autonomy and boards but not really. The president is a plant from Arch there to convince donors they and their money have a major say in direction of their school but they don’t. Arch hires presidents and fires them. The only real measure is fundraising which in turn directs how much aid you can give out and your enrollment.

If Roman was private they would have a shot. Could make a business decision. But realistically they aren’t really hurting for enrollment so having a more competitive football team a luxury and something Arch could care less about unless it enticed more unique donors.

Take a look around. Want to know why the Drew Gordon’s and Steve Devlin’s are gone from PCL. See above. These “great” jobs are grueling because of these factors. Ryan, Judge, Roman guy better be the Pied Piper, Joel Osteen and Vince Lombardi tied into one package.
 
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Salvucci

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GG

Absolutely great stuff, thought provoking posts. I do think 15 players per class getting 6K out of the "booster/fundraising fund" is a high. If you had 15 players a class that deserved that much funding beyond aid, you would have a powerhouse for sure. I think many of the players qualify for financial aid which would off-set that 6K, and if you had 6 players each class that you got booster funding for and 4-5 played both ways you would have really strong junior and senior classes, sprinkle in some underclassmen. So 5K per player for booster fund, 6 per class, 24 x 5k would be $120k, every year. Still a lot of money but more manageable with right commitment. As you said costs go up from there dramatically to run a program like Prep or Wood.

Prep went all in, Wood went all in as well and likely helped keep school open, even though they have been benefiting from population growth in central bucks, unlike FJ, Ryan, Egan. Success allows you to attract with less funds, but starting out for Roman would be expensive.

I agree with other posters as well, as I don't think there is as much money given for sports as people think, including Prep and Wood, every family pays something, not sure about IA structure, as 35K a year for HS is a lot for most families.

Lastly, another big driver for families is college recruitment, and where I think Prep and Wood had another advantage was that Infante and Devlin (being in the building helps too) do/did a good job of helping their players get to the next level, beyond the many D1 guys. Many D2 and D3 opportunities each year, when I don't see the same from the big public successful programs.
 
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new2pa

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Do any of the PCC guys out here know if it works this same way at Central Catholic? This approach is either not done or kept really quite out west because if it was known, people would go more crazy that they already do!
 

Salvucci

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New

Not sure how PCC does it, but the dynamic is totally different given the number of PCL, private, and Inter-ac schools in SEPA. In Pittsburgh it is really PCC or public for football. Philly beyond being a lot more populated has stronger traditional ties to parochial schools, and add in open boundaries now, and the Inter-ac, and families have a lot of options.
 
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6daystosaturday

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New, depending on where you are in the Phila area you can have literally 15 high school choices in addition to your local public school that makes sense.
If you are able to pay full tuition, and you can play a little ball, expect to hear from a ton of these schools telling you why their school should get your money. If you can really play ball and cannot afford it, expect to hear from them because hey everything can be worked out. I'll say this, I don't think Wood offsets tuition nearly what they did previously. It is a destination now, and they are getting kids who can play and pay, at least most of the tuition. The thing is, Roman lies right in the middle of that area of 15-20 schools. Let's say I can really play, and I can pay the tuition. Why Roman? And if I can't pay, why Roman? At least for football. New, it's not uncommon at a youth football game to see 10-15 schools all there watching, including the local public school. And each of those schools can point to kids from that team or area that have attended, therefore there is a historical "pipeline" to show why the kid should attend their school.
 

new2pa

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New, it's not uncommon at a youth football game to see 10-15 schools all there watching, including the local public school. And each of those schools can point to kids from that team or area that have attended, therefore there is a historical "pipeline" to show why the kid should attend their school.
That is really interesting to hear. I guess I didn't realize the number of options kids have both academically or for football in SEPA. Out here, its PCC or your local public school. The smaller private school like North Catholic or Seton LaSalle have decent programs, but nothing like PCC and the publics. In Erie, I think its even more pronounced because I guess the public school aren't as good educationally or in sports.
 

SPEED&JUMP DR.

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I thing that changed the landscape is when the Archdiocese went to open boundary, the high schools became way more aggressive in recruiting kids, not just for sports, but for enrollment in general. That was rarely an issue 25-30 years ago. Using Ridley as an example, there were certain kids that St. James Parish kids, certain kids that were Ohara parish kids,and the rest were Ridley kids and rarely did those paths cross. You might get a chunk of parish kids/families that gave up the catholic school education after 8th grade and start 9th grade at the junior high, but for the most part, everyone kept to themselves. Ohara kept their kids, St James theirs, Ridley theirs, and there was very little if any of a school going behind the back of another school to get a kid.

Now, quite often the local pub school has to recruit their ":eek:wn" kids and convince them to stay or lose them, in addition to the 10-15 other coaches you may see at a CYO or middle school game. It can no longer be assumed that a Ridley/Springfield/Haverford , etc middle school kid is going to the local high school.
 
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Simmonj4618

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Delaware too, just announced today!

EVENTS | CONNECT | GET INVOLVED
Historic gift to Salesianum


Salesianum is proud to announce a landmark $16,000,000 gift from Rocco A. Abessinio ’59 and the Rocco A. & Mary Abessinio Foundation. The gift will be used to fund the construction of a new stadium on the Baynard Site and also continue the Abessinio family’s commitment to the Salesianum School Endowment.

This gift is the third largest gift to a Catholic secondary school in the United States and the largest gift ever to a private school in Delaware.

In recognition of his commitment to Salesianum, the school will name the stadium in Mr. Abessinio’s honor. While the Baynard Stadium lease agreement was rightfully celebrated by the Salesianum and Wilmington communities alike, the ultimate realization of the vision set forth in that agreement was always dependent upon securing the resources to fund the proposed changes. This gift is a major step towards achieving this reality. With this gift, Salesianum is hopeful that demolition of Baynard Stadium can begin in early summer 2019, with Abessinio Stadium completed in time for the football season of 2020. Salesianum is eager to get started and confident that entire school community shares our joy in this announcement and joins us in thanking the Abessinios for their continued leadership.

Salesianum has evolved from a small, fledgling school - founded with just four students - to an institution with graduates across the globe, and a reach far beyond our corner of 18th & Broom. That journey required vision, but it also required generosity. Today, we celebrate both. We are grateful for Rocco and Mary Frances's unprecedented investment in our mission, and doing so with an understanding that the dividends will be shared by everyone in our community for years to come.

Tenui Nec Dimittam,


Brendan P. Kennealey '94
 

vucat1

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While the Baynard Stadium lease agreement was rightfully celebrated by the Salesianum and Wilmington communities alike, the ultimate realization of the vision set forth in that agreement was always dependent upon securing the resources to fund the proposed changes.

Translation: the name on the stadium will always be up for sale to the highest bidder!