Ref'ing football in today's game

[myboyblue62]

Once upon a time, teams were coached to NOT get penalties. As a player you were scolded for an infraction. Pulled from games, extra sprints or push-ups at practice.
Today, you are coached to foul, and force refs to flag it. Excessive Holding, pass interference, playing through the whistle, not to the whistle etc. etc. etc.
I'm not a fan of refs but our sport, at every level, is taking a bad turn.
Fans expect to win or lose, not on the play, but on the calls made or not made.
"That's holding!" From one sideline, to "How can you make that call!" On the other.
2 cents!

 

[73-Vike]

My opinion: it's a reflection of the attitudes of the larger society within which high school football operates. Those attitudes are that winning is more important than fair play and playing by the rules is for suckers. Successfully gaming the system--even cheating as long as you don't get caught--is accepted and rewarded in sports because it's accepted and rewarded in life. And taking a balanced approach and seeing things from the other team's perspective labels you a traitor. Without question, everything your team does is right and everything the other team does is wrong.

 

[BucksFB]

You guys make good, fair points, but I think there were always people/programs like that. However, the officiating has not kept up with the game. When you have top programs with exceptional speed like NP/Coatesville or Prep/Wood, 5 out of shape out of position guys won't cut it. Hard for them to keep up. Add in the over officiating Huck mentioned and games are hard to watch. Doesn't sound like the outcome was determined by the officials with NP game, but nothing worse than ref calling a major penalty away from the ball for 10 or 15 yards or nullifying a big play and changing the game...

 

[MaternDeiWarrior]

Not to belabor the point but in the PIAA playoffs you get 7 out of shape out of position guys trying to show their worth and at times try to out do one another. Add to that they also have three more on chain gang. Most of these guys have never touched the chains and it shows. Hope for better next weekend when stakes get even higher.

 

[myboyblue62]

Right now I would say the best ref'ed games are college games. Seems like they let them play more than either high school or the NFL.
The Pro game might be the worst of all. No "slow" players there. But, I get it!
Even at the pro level out of position players will clutch and grab.
They are coached very well to take rules over the limit and force calls.

Local high school refs watch games on TV like us meer mortals. Just as we try to emulate our sports heroes we see as kids, well you get the idea.
Test
Next high school game you attend. Count completed passes vs flags thrown!
If you enjoy HS football, no matter the team, a great completion is an accomplishment for these young men.
Flags, not so much, coming from (shall we say older fellows) all game long.
Just love the game too much to see it losing some its luster.

 

[green_beans]

I agree with the board on this one.. some of the calls were absolutely nuts and once they start to make bad call after bad call.. frustration builds etc...

It's not just football.. if any of your kids play a high level travel sport.. it just as bad if not worse..half the refs are their for the extra $50 bucks and the other are too young to spell fifty..

For HS FB... it really needs to start during the season.. it's safe to say we live in an area where there is a lot of high level HS football..by the time playoffs start everyone knows who can do what... just like any other job.. if they can't find good ref's to do the playoffs in our area.. bring them in from elsewhere.. even consider using some of the area D2 or D3 college refs..

the only other reason I could think of was they got paid by the flag

 

[00shoe]

Officials belong to chapters . Playoff games are assigned by chapter officers to themselves, those connected & seniority. not based on ability, so you get out of shape guys who are out of position and can't keep up with the game. By this time in the playoffs need officials who are doing college games and I don't mean division III guys. $is a problem.

 

[lilromeo]

Not to belabor the point but in the PIAA playoffs you get 7 out of shape out of position guys trying to show their worth and at times try to out do one another. Add to that they also have three more on chain gang. Most of these guys have never touched the chains and it shows. Hope for better next weekend when stakes get even higher.

I had to sigh again when I saw that Del Val Charter was flagged 16 times in yesterdays game vs.Conwell/Egan. These guys are ruining the game .

 

[lilromeo]

I agree with the board on this one.. some of the calls were absolutely nuts and once they start to make bad call after bad call.. frustration builds etc...

It's not just football.. if any of your kids play a high level travel sport.. it just as bad if not worse..half the refs are their for the extra $50 bucks and the other are too young to spell fifty..

For HS FB... it really needs to start during the season.. it's safe to say we live in an area where there is a lot of high level HS football..by the time playoffs start everyone knows who can do what... just like any other job.. if they can't find good ref's to do the playoffs in our area.. bring them in from elsewhere.. even consider using some of the area D2 or D3 college refs..

the only other reason I could think of was they got paid by the flag

I lol at your last sentence.

 

[green_beans]

I watch a replay of the np game on Comcast 28 if you live in the school district .. The flags look worse on tv.. For both sides ..to the point where it's embarrassing...a few of the stripes should not have been on the field for health reasons alone..

Also I think it was relayer that posted on cville 2nd TD he stepped in the side line.. I think it might have been right in front of the yard marker.. If he did how was that missed

What scares me the most.. if you think about the crew that was used for prep-wood game which was nationally televised.. what are the chances we'll get a better group for Friday night

 

[the trap]

The problem with the refs are consistency one week the game refed 1 way the next week its different. I been at multiple games the last few years D2 and 3 highschool and youth.
The college officials seem to be the best they just seem be letting them play more.
Aside from dead ball fouls offside illegal motion etc witch are easy to see ,. It's the holding offense or defense, illegal block , peel back , targeting and interference.Nobodys know what is a penalty
I was always told that you follow the play and if the penalty is anyway part what could or just did happen or if its blatant.As far as the Friday night game that was horrendous
I was there I dvr the game the the officials let it get out of hand they should of tossed a few people and you would not have as many problems .I was thought 2 unsportsmanlike was automatic ejection.

 

[EPC FAN]

Once upon a time, teams were coached to NOT get penalties. As a player you were scolded for an infraction. Pulled from games, extra sprints or push-ups at practice.
Today, you are coached to foul, and force refs to flag it. Excessive Holding, pass interference, playing through the whistle, not to the whistle etc. etc. etc.
I'm not a fan of refs but our sport, at every level, is taking a bad turn.
Fans expect to win or lose, not on the play, but on the calls made or not made.
"That's holding!" From one sideline, to "How can you make that call!" On the other.
2 cents!

1. It is a good old boy network. Kiss the assigner's ring to get games. That keeps really good, young officials from advancing.
2. FAR to many officials are obese or have such bad legs they can't keep up with the action. Mostly older guys who kiss the ring.
3. To many coaches are allowed to bitch from the sidelines, attempting to intimidate weak officials. Some teams do more of it than others, but it is a problem.

 

[myboyblue62]

Agreed!
Every point is spot on. Trouble is, it can't change. Can't!
It's a good old boy network, out of shape old guys, and younger guys get intimidated easily.
Ahhh!
On a few occasions I HAD to ref. Refs didn't show for a JV or 9 th grade game over the years.
Staff would agree, we could either scrimmage 10 and 10 , or have a couple guys from each staff call the game.
Beside the fact we all sucked at it, a few things happened that I didn't expect.
First and most shocking was how hard we were on our own players??? We would through flags on our players so fast. I guess we were still coaching our kids.
Second, we never met each other prior to these contest, and immediately became team of officials. Weird!
Third and funniest to me was, even though we AGREED on the format, coaches would STILL complain about our calls or non calls every play, from each sideline. Ha!
One game I stopped play, walked over to the HC and gave him an ultimatum. One more word from you and your headed home or it's a scrimmage from then on!
His staff kept him in check.
As always, the players were awesome. They even were helpful. Adults..... Not so much!

 

[kitwor]

I think there are a lot of very talented PIAA refs and also those who are just horrible. I distinctly remember being on the sidelines covering a Neshaminy/Abington game about 4 years ago. The back judge threw roughly 15 flags for either the most minute things or penalties that just didn't happen. I can remember one of the side judges making faces behind the back judge's back as if he was saying, "WTF" .

I play in a summer softball league and our umpire was also a PIAA football referee who primarily did Freshman and JV games. After talking to this gentlemen for a few minutes about being a PIAA ref I came away thinking that this guy was kind of clueless as to what all the rules are.

I felt strongly that both of these individuals had hardly any (if none at all) experience even playing any type of HS sport (which I feel should be a criteria for being a ref or umpire in this state).

I am in no way trying to bash all Pa HS refs but I'd bet a dollar to a donut that if you talked to a few upstanding ones in private they would echo the same sentiments.

 

[TexasFan9]

I have a couple buddies who are in there late 20s/early30s who are trying to get into the high school refing scene and it has been a struggle for them. They are lucky to get in 5-7 games a year and that includes middle school, 9th grade and JV games. The older refs do not want to give up their spot to let young referees in to at least get experience. I was a 9th grade football game, and there were 4 refs at the game, 3 older gentlemen and 1 probably in his 40s. The one team was running no huddle and the "head ref" could simply not keep up, he had to at least be in his 70s. At half time, he took himself out of the game and the game was left with only 3 referees. At some point these younger refs need to start doing these games, and its a shame that its all about who you know and whose a** you kiss to be able to ref games now a days.

 

[shfoot]

I few years ago the PIAA added the horse collar rule. The beginning of that same season I had a chat with two close friends who are refs. They both mentioned (D1 only) the referee meeting before the season started that only a third of the refs showed up to pick up their rule books/changes and info. That same year I witnesses 4 collar infractions that weren't called. When I confronted the side and back refs, they looked at me like, "what the hell are you talking about". They said, "there's no such rule".
2010 A player leaped over a CB and ran for a TD. That's a 15 yd penalty and it was back then too. No one wanted to call it. Though the CB was OK, he still fell backwards hitting his head.
What's the sense in having rules if they're not upheld!