Private School Recruiting article

[wilson8500]

Private School Recruiting: Time to level the competition in PA

Nearly eight million kids across the country play a high school sport. Those kids practice rigorously with the goal of being able to win the biggest prize possible; a state championship. In the state of Pennsylvania, this aspiration is getting smaller and smaller for many public schools. A...

www.knightcrier.org

 

[tulla]

The article says private schools encourage students to "transfer" into them after 8th grade. SJP, LaSalle, etc, don't regard any student who enters at the start of freshman year (grade 9) as a transfer. They recruit all their students.

Of course, there are advantages to being a non-boundary school, but there is no mention of any disadvantages that apply, i.e. any advantages a school like North Penn has. (Families of North Penn students never have to pay tuition, pay for books, pay for transportation, etc. No North Penn players--at least in football--have to travel to practice--or 5-20 miles home after practice. North Penn does not lose students for academic reasons.) I'm not going to pretend the advantages non-boundary schools have don't outweigh the disadvantages, but it would be good to acknowledge the latter exist.

I also wish the article had spelled out a specific solution. Separate classification(s) for non-boundary schools for all sports? No distinctions made between non-boundary schools, regardless of their size? Philly Public schools (whose only boundaries are the city limits) in the private / noun-boundary classification? Is the New Jersey situation seen as the ideal--or close to it?

 

[Bighead75]

high school paper...No way this article was written by a high school student.

 

[paul from philly]

The article says private schools encourage students to "transfer" into them after 8th grade. SJP, LaSalle, etc, don't regard any student who enters at the start of freshman year (grade 9) as a transfer. They recruit all their students.

Of course, there are advantages to being a non-boundary school, but there is no mention of any disadvantages that apply, i.e. any advantages a school like North Penn has. (Families of North Penn students never have to pay tuition, pay for books, pay for transportation, etc. No North Penn players--at least in football--have to travel to practice--or 5-20 miles home after practice. North Penn does not lose students for academic reasons.) I'm not going to pretend the advantages non-boundary schools have don't outweigh the disadvantages, but it would be good to acknowledge the latter exist.

I also wish the article had spelled out a specific solution. Separate classification(s) for non-boundary schools for all sports? No distinctions made between non-boundary schools, regardless of their size? Philly Public schools (whose only boundaries are the city limits) in the private / noun-boundary classification? Is the New Jersey situation seen as the ideal--or close to it?

I guess they mean transfer from middle school................I guess!!

 

[tulla]

I guess they mean transfer from middle school................I guess!!

Paul, Behind this "transfer" idea seems to be a notion that kids belong to the school distract in which they live. So when they go elsewhere there is a sense they've been stolen or they've betrayed their district. I guess it was easier when all or nearly all the kids who went to SJP, LaSalle, etc. came from Catholic elementary schools. As you know, those days are gone and won't come back.

 

[paul from philly]

Paul, Behind this "transfer" idea seems to be a notion that kids belong to the school distract in which they live. So when they go elsewhere there is a sense they've been stolen or they've betrayed their district. I guess it was easier when all or nearly all the kids who went to SJP, LaSalle, etc. came from Catholic elementary schools. As you know, those days are gone and won't come back.

Used to be when I, and I assume you, was a kid every parish school had their own teams. Then when my boys started playing, their team was made up of 4-5 parishes. That was close to 15 years ago and I can't imagine what the landscape looks like now.

 

[wilson8500]

Any solutions from private school followers?
Or should it be kept as is?

 

[HSFB99]

Wilson, it’s a tough problem. Realistically, there are only a handful of privates that are really good in their classifications (St. Joes in 6A, Wood/ECP/Imhotep when they were in 3/5A, etc.). The success formula may help some of these issues, e.g. Wood is now in 6A so they’ll presumably be eliminated by St. Joes or Lasalle. It doesn’t solve the issue at the 6A level, but it arguably solves it at 5A if those schools are forced to play in 6A.

In my opinion, the good public school programs can play and beat LaSalle, Wood, ECP, Imhotep, etc. (I would argue Pine -Richland is better than all of them). Look no further than Lasalles early season schedule from this previous year. They were in very tight contests with Manheim Township and Del Val. Also, their contest against DTE was much closer than the score indicated.

The way I see it, the 10,000 lb gorilla in the room is St. Joes Prep. I believe you’d see much more parity if it wasn’t for their dominance. What’s the solution to this issue? I’m not sure. I don’t have one (and neither does PIAA). The 7A super class never made sense because it would only have SJP in it. I also don’t think it makes a lot of sense to completely separate private and public just because of SJP.

 

[sammyk]

Private and Charter schools are now part of many states and will continue to kill public schools. In NC we only have four private schools who compete in the state association Charlotte Catholic, Cardinal Gibbons, Bishop McGuiness and Christ the king. Two are state powers one is so so and one is awful for now. Where things get stupid is the charter schools they are the real enemy of the publics

 

[tulla]

Any solutions from private school followers?
Or should it be kept as is?

Wilson ... I'll give it a shot. First, I assume that for most sports (soccer track, baseball, swimming. etc.) there's no big problem. So I'd leave those sports as is. I don't know enough about basketball to suggest anything. Maybe the Reading win over Wood will put that on the backburner, though my sense from afar that the real problem with basketball is the huge--much larger than football--number of transfers in grades 10, 11, and 12. Also, maybe the big gap isn't as much between boundary and non-boundary as between urban and non-urban. This is just speculation from afar.

Now for football. Here are some possibilities:

1) A separate class is created for all non-boundary schools from 4A up and an effort is made to get the InterAC to join the PIAA and to agree to be put into this classification. (I really don't think the 5th year of eligibility is a major issue. The larger issue would be getting buy-in from the Inter-Ac as a whole since they--Malvern not so much--seem to be in love with themselves and how they do things.) That would mean about 6 PCL schools, at least one charter school, Shanahan, PCC, Erie Cathedral, maybe one or two of the Lehigh Valley schools, and perhaps the InterAC schools would form one classification. Its small size would be less of a problem than the fact that it would be very heavily concentrated in SE PA. I also strongly suspect PCC, EC, and the Lehigh Valley schools would object / refuse. But if something like this could be pulled off, the champion of this class might very well come to be regarded as far and away the best team in the state.

2) SJP and perhaps LaSalle leave the PCL and the PIAA (for football only) and play a kind of independent schedule against a few local schools (Malvern, a willing large public school such as North Penn or Coatesville, a couple of PCL schools), two or three teams from DC/Maryland (Gonzaga, DeMatha, St. John's, etc.), two or three teams from North Jersey (Bergen Catholic, Bosco, St. Peter's etc.), and a game or two against teams from further afield. This looks appealing if you have a really good team (like the Prep has had in the last several years) but it might be hard to get games later in the season (when, for instance, Jersey teams are locked into games with each other) and it would obviously mean a fair bit of travel, which is expensive. From a school perspective it would also mean that fewer games a year would be played in places where other students and even family members could attend. But if something liked this worked, it could easily attract an even higher percentage of talented/ambitious players to SJP and LaSalle.

3) (Really just a version of #2) Somewhere between, say, 6 and 15 private (probably all of them Catholic) schools from North Jersey to the DC area--Philly being in the middle--form a football only league (with two divisions if the number of schools is ten or over). Clearly, it would probably be widely regarded as a kind of super league. None of the schools would be eligible for state playoffs. One downside to this would be that a real down year would mean lots of lopsided losses.

4) The Prep could decide to place less emphasis on / devote fewer resources to football.(The school offers many sports, but it chooses which sport will get extra attention and resources. The rowing team, like the football team, gets such support.) This might return the football team to rough parity with teams like LaSalle and Malvern. As far as I remember, there were no complaints about unfair competition the first several years after the PCL joined the PIAA when it was mostly LaSalle winning five straight PCL championships but only one state championship. This would of course mean that many of the students who are drawn to the Prep in large measure because of its excellent and ambitious football program would not come. As I think about this past year's team and past the three top talents (McCord, Harrison, and Trotter), I see guys like Talley (going to Penn), Hagans (going to Duke), Cooper (going to Temple), Yagoditch (going to Harvard), Fisher (going to Bowdoin), Doyle (going to Amherst),McCormack (going to Lehigh) ,Rooney (going to Bucknell), etc. for whom the Prep's academic/football experience has been great. Some of those guys would be going where they're going regardless, but some would not.

I know the above has focused almost entirely on SJP, but my strong sense is that what drives this topic is not boundary vs non-boundary but the dominance of SJP in its current classification.

 

[bucksftball]

As illustrated above there is no easy answer and it's possible as noted that it would be a lot of disruption for one problematic program. Just some observations, because I don't have a proposed answer as in come cases the medicine is worse than the disease.

1. For some athletes the idea of the combination of academics / athletics is certainly a private school draw. However, for students leaving CBSD, CR, etc... academically they are often limiting their opportunities in the classroom because of the quality of the public schools and the resources they possess. They'd most likely have the same collegiate opportunities coming out of their public school.
2. Much of the angst from the public school people is not because of the +1 that the privates gain when someone chooses them, but the -1 from the loss of that player. (How many football / basketball games have CBSD schools played against LaSalle, GA, Prep, Wood lately?) It's more about the "what if..." Longino, Russo, 2 Trainas (older brother went to Harvard from West), Mallee (Yale after de-committing from MD), etc... each school can put a list together and say... "wow we had a very solid team that year what if Russo had stayed?"
3. From having the conversation with parents that have made the private school choice out of the CBSD district, it often goes something like this... "well, school X has 17 AP classes and X percent of their teachers have masters degrees" CB schools have more in both categories. "They have kids going to the ivies and NESCAC schools and the top publics like UMich and UVA every year." So does CBSD.
And it goes on and on... often the difference is that they were RECRUITED to that school and so they had people whose job it is to make the private more attractive. The public school is just there, there's no tour scheduled, there is no academic presentation given, and only rarely is the coach in touch to talk about the athletic opportunities.

So maybe, just maybe, part of the solution is that the public schools need to do a better job of attracting their own students to stay home.

 

[tulla]

As illustrated above there is no easy answer and it's possible as noted that it would be a lot of disruption for one problematic program. Just some observations, because I don't have a proposed answer as in come cases the medicine is worse than the disease.

1. For some athletes the idea of the combination of academics / athletics is certainly a private school draw. However, for students leaving CBSD, CR, etc... academically they are often limiting their opportunities in the classroom because of the quality of the public schools and the resources they possess. They'd most likely have the same collegiate opportunities coming out of their public school.
2. Much of the angst from the public school people is not because of the +1 that the privates gain when someone chooses them, but the -1 from the loss of that player. (How many football / basketball games have CBSD schools played against LaSalle, GA, Prep, Wood lately?) It's more about the "what if..." Longino, Russo, 2 Trainas (older brother went to Harvard from West), Mallee (Yale after de-committing from MD), etc... each school can put a list together and say... "wow we had a very solid team that year what if Russo had stayed?"
3. From having the conversation with parents that have made the private school choice out of the CBSD district, it often goes something like this... "well, school X has 17 AP classes and X percent of their teachers have masters degrees" CB schools have more in both categories. "They have kids going to the ivies and NESCAC schools and the top publics like UMich and UVA every year." So does CBSD.
And it goes on and on... often the difference is that they were RECRUITED to that school and so they had people whose job it is to make the private more attractive. The public school is just there, there's no tour scheduled, there is no academic presentation given, and only rarely is the coach in touch to talk about the athletic opportunities.

So maybe, just maybe, part of the solution is that the public schools need to do a better job of attracting their own students to stay home.

No doubt there are public high schools with good academic programs, and you're right that some could or should do a better job of promoting themselves. It would be interesting to see what portion of the top tier football players that the Prep and LaSalle get come from school districts with particularly strong academic programs. I can't even speculate what the answer is.

I'd suggest something else is influencing the decisions of many parents. As parents we all know that adolescence is a fairly precarious time, maybe more so today than in the past (even though as a guy in his late 60s I can well remember how normal it was for older teenagers and very young men to drive after having a few drinks). Being involved in sports helps lots of boys get through adolescence without getting way off track. So does a suitably demanding curriculum, individualized supports (not just academic), a sense of being part of something, including a tradition, bigger than yourself, chances to put into practice youthful idealism, etc. This combination is something several private schools offer / sell to parents. The Prep football program can point to many dozens of graduates, some not especially talented, who had a great high school experience that included playing on some highly successful teams and who then were offered opportunities to continue their studies and their playing at really good schools. If I'm a parent of an 8th grader, I'm probably more affected by the story of the back-up Prep QB who went on the captain the Coast Guard Academy team than by the story of D'Andre Swift.

One last observation. The fact that the great majority of Prep parents (including the parents of football players) have to make some sacrifices to pay at least some tuition and added fees probably makes them feel quite invested in the school and in their decision. This is true not just of the Prep, of course, but when I look back I think there was actually an advantage to having to take three public transit vehicles to get home in the dark after practice.

 

[lilromeo]

As illustrated above there is no easy answer and it's possible as noted that it would be a lot of disruption for one problematic program. Just some observations, because I don't have a proposed answer as in come cases the medicine is worse than the disease.

1. For some athletes the idea of the combination of academics / athletics is certainly a private school draw. However, for students leaving CBSD, CR, etc... academically they are often limiting their opportunities in the classroom because of the quality of the public schools and the resources they possess. They'd most likely have the same collegiate opportunities coming out of their public school.
2. Much of the angst from the public school people is not because of the +1 that the privates gain when someone chooses them, but the -1 from the loss of that player. (How many football / basketball games have CBSD schools played against LaSalle, GA, Prep, Wood lately?) It's more about the "what if..." Longino, Russo, 2 Trainas (older brother went to Harvard from West), Mallee (Yale after de-committing from MD), etc... each school can put a list together and say... "wow we had a very solid team that year what if Russo had stayed?"
3. From having the conversation with parents that have made the private school choice out of the CBSD district, it often goes something like this... "well, school X has 17 AP classes and X percent of their teachers have masters degrees" CB schools have more in both categories. "They have kids going to the ivies and NESCAC schools and the top publics like UMich and UVA every year." So does CBSD.
And it goes on and on... often the difference is that they were RECRUITED to that school and so they had people whose job it is to make the private more attractive. The public school is just there, there's no tour scheduled, there is no academic presentation given, and only rarely is the coach in touch to talk about the athletic opportunities.

So maybe, just maybe, part of the solution is that the public schools need to do a better job of attracting their own students to stay home.

To your point ,I dont believe for example Pine-Richland and CB West in the Pettine years lost many players to Parochial High schools primarily due to great coaching and in turn successful programs. There are many others within Pa. such as these two . Inter-Ac teams have become very good and are getting many more of the top athletes than prior years.

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

Simple solution: only kids that pay full tuition and a private school can participate in sports. I do not think most people mind the kid who has spent the first 8 years going to catholic school going to a private high school. Or those " legacy" kids who are going to St Joes from the day they were born. Its the actual "recruiting" that is bothersome, and often times that recruiting pitch comes with an offer of full/partial scholarship. That unevens the playing field, not only for public school teams, but also within the PCL itself.

 

[tulla]

Simple solution: only kids that pay full tuition and a private school can participate in sports. I do not think most people mind the kid who has spent the first 8 years going to catholic school going to a private high school. Or those " legacy" kids who are going to St Joes from the day they were born. Its the actual "recruiting" that is bothersome, and often times that recruiting pitch comes with an offer of full/partial scholarship. That unevens the playing field, not only for public school teams, but also within the PCL itself.

But many, maybe most students at the Prep, don't pay full tuition. So you're saying that a kid whose parents pay $10-15K for tuition at the Prep--and pay local taxes to support their local public schools--can't play against kids at a public school whose parents pay no tuition at all? Of course some Prep families pay less--and some pay more. You also seem to be locked into a long-ago past when a school like the Prep--or LaSalle or Roman or Judge or ...--could its place with just students who went to Catholic schools for 8 years. The world has changed!!

 

[SPEED&JUMP DR.]

I’m using the term recruiting as a big time college would - come to my school and play football and we will take care of your tuition - or at least part of it. I understand there is often times a great education that comes along with it. But it would certainly level the playing field. Not only between the pubs v privates , but also within the PCL itself. A kid who might be able to afford O’Hara , but not st Joe’s , will most likely go to st Joe’s if it’s less expensive or free .

 

[paul from philly]

No doubt there are public high schools with good academic programs, and you're right that some could or should do a better job of promoting themselves. It would be interesting to see what portion of the top tier football players that the Prep and LaSalle get come from school districts with particularly strong academic programs. I can't even speculate what the answer is.

I'd suggest something else is influencing the decisions of many parents. As parents we all know that adolescence is a fairly precarious time, maybe more so today than in the past (even though as a guy in his late 60s I can well remember how normal it was for older teenagers and very young men to drive after having a few drinks). Being involved in sports helps lots of boys get through adolescence without getting way off track. So does a suitably demanding curriculum, individualized supports (not just academic), a sense of being part of something, including a tradition, bigger than yourself, chances to put into practice youthful idealism, etc. This combination is something several private schools offer / sell to parents. The Prep football program can point to many dozens of graduates, some not especially talented, who had a great high school experience that included playing on some highly successful teams and who then were offered opportunities to continue their studies and their playing at really good schools. If I'm a parent of an 8th grader, I'm probably more affected by the story of the back-up Prep QB who went on the captain the Coast Guard Academy team than by the story of D'Andre Swift.

One last observation. The fact that the great majority of Prep parents (including the parents of football players) have to make some sacrifices to pay at least some tuition and added fees probably makes them feel quite invested in the school and in their decision. This is true not just of the Prep, of course, but when I look back I think there was actually an advantage to having to take three public transit vehicles to get home in the dark after practice.

I used to work with a guy who ran all the sports (baseball, football, basketball) for youth in Northeast Philly and his one huge comment to me was "Get your kids involved in sports, especially the boys. And do it before they get involved with girls or drugs or some other diversion." I got lucky. All my kids did get into sports and without knowing the other side, I'd say it made my parenting life a lot easier!!

 

[tulla]

Do others think, as I do, that if a separate non-boundary classification was set up by the PIAA or if the Prep left the PIAA (willingly or not) we'd be hearing within a year or so from many attached to public schools that public school x or y could beat the Prep? And do others think that if, as is very possible and perhaps likely, the Prep does not win the state championship next year there will be the same level of agitation for separating boundary and non-boundary schools? I'm trying to imagine, say, the coach of Coatesville saying, after his team beat the Prep that they really wish it had been Pennsbury they had played and beaten.

 

[wilson8500]

I don't know how it should be fixed, but it should. As it stands major colleges can basically stay on top of a few schools like prep for recruiting. They know where the most talent is stocked year in and out. Advantage Prep! Come here and get recruited.
And when you have a team with no weak link how do you defend it? Or how do you attack it on offense?
Prep made fools out of everyone they played.
Not good for the sport.

 

[Stalker]

I don't know how it should be fixed, but it should. As it stands major colleges can basically stay on top of a few schools like prep for recruiting. They know where the most talent is stocked year in and out. Advantage Prep! Come here and get recruited.
And when you have a team with no weak link how do you defend it? Or how do you attack it on offense?
Prep made fools out of everyone they played.
Not good for the sport.

With no offense to your words wilson, we all know it's not good for the sport. It's good for St. Joe's. Period. Long term, maybe it's not good for them.
I'm repeating myself but what we did years ago when a relative on a public school basketball team got to the state finals and lost to a private school was proclaim them the Public School Champ, which they in fact were. Kennedy Christian was the Private School Champ. Who cares if the PIAA recognizes it that way. It is....in fact....true! Make up your own trophy as we did and to hell with the PIAA. Being a former player like a lot of the guys on the board I know many feel the SJP players would rather have good comp annually instead of having year ending average scores of 40-6, 38-13, 46-14, 41-17 and 48-17 from 2016 thru 2020. It would look better on their resumes also to have played higher level teams. I don't think they'll form a league (NJ, MD DC) but they can schedule those people as there are many such as IMG, St. Francis (Balt), some of the MD/DC schools, St. Johns, OLGC, etc who want that level of comp and can play that level of comp. Some of the FL schools my relatives went to would likely jump at the chance to beat the Hawks....and could. Team like St. Thomas Aquinas and Lakeland don't avoid many opportunities to show their stuff.

 

[HSFB99]

To me, St. Joes is the favorite in 6A until proven otherwise. I understand they graduate a lot of big time players, but I still expect them to win the state championship next year. If that continues for the next 2-3 years (winning 5-6 state championships in a row), expect the separation talk to get louder and louder. It may force the PIAAs hand. Not that I necessarily agree with that notion; but I can see it happening.

 

[tulla]

With no offense to your words wilson, we all know it's not good for the sport. It's good for St. Joe's. Period. Long term, maybe it's not good for them.
I'm repeating myself but what we did years ago when a relative on a public school basketball team got to the state finals and lost to a private school was proclaim them the Public School Champ, which they in fact were. Kennedy Christian was the Private School Champ. Who cares if the PIAA recognizes it that way. It is....in fact....true! Make up your own trophy as we did and to hell with the PIAA. Being a former player like a lot of the guys on the board I know many feel the SJP players would rather have good comp annually instead of having year ending average scores of 40-6, 38-13, 46-14, 41-17 and 48-17 from 2016 thru 2020. It would look better on their resumes also to have played higher level teams. I don't think they'll form a league (NJ, MD DC) but they can schedule those people as there are many such as IMG, St. Francis (Balt), some of the MD/DC schools, St. Johns, OLGC, etc who want that level of comp and can play that level of comp. Some of the FL schools my relatives went to would likely jump at the chance to beat the Hawks....and could. Team like St. Thomas Aquinas and Lakeland don't avoid many opportunities to show their stuff.

Stalker, Just wondering if you think all private schools or all non-boundary schools (which would include all PPL schools) should be out of the PIAA or should compete in a separate classification within the PIAA.

Also, I assume Lakeland is a public high school. What makes them likely to beat SJP that a public school in PA can't or doesn't have?

 

[HSFB99]

Seton LaSalle football coach Mauro Monz and assistant suspended one year for alleged recruiting

Mauro Monz was hired in November as Seton LaSalle High School’s new football coach. But he won’t be coaching the team this season because of...

www.post-gazette.com

Interesting tidbit that broke today regarding this general topic.

 

[Stalker]

Stalker, Just wondering if you think all private schools or all non-boundary schools (which would include all PPL schools) should be out of the PIAA or should compete in a separate classification within the PIAA.

Also, I assume Lakeland is a public high school. What makes them likely to beat SJP that a public school in PA can't or doesn't have?

No, I don't want to see any team out of the PIAA. Only that the loser, if a boundary school....CD, Hburg, Cent York etc, be recognized as the state champion of public schools. It's simple, as we did it years ago and it's factual; the aforementioned schools are public school champions.

About Lakeland, a public school. There is no public school in PA that has the consistency of winning at Lakeland's level, including state titles, except SCA. They are often at or near SJP's talent level and play 3-4 non region/district games on the front end making it possible.

 

[new2pa]

To me, St. Joes is the favorite in 6A until proven otherwise. I understand they graduate a lot of big time players, but I still expect them to win the state championship next year. If that continues for the next 2-3 years (winning 5-6 state championships in a row), expect the separation talk to get louder and louder. It may force the PIAAs hand. Not that I necessarily agree with that notion; but I can see it happening.

I don’t see PCC or NA or anybody in 6A out here having what it takes talent, scheme or culture related to beat Prep if they just have an “average good” team.

 

[tulla]

I don’t see PCC or NA or anybody in 6A out here having what it takes talent, scheme or culture related to beat Prep if they just have an “average good” team.

My general question is whether the quality of high school football in PA, especially at larger public schools, is getting better or worse or staying about the same. My impression from a distance is that it's worse. Not only is there no program like that of CB West, there's no program with strong teams over many years like North Penn from 10-20 years ago. I had the sense that schools like McKeesport and Gateway had really good, not necessarily great, teams year over year. Then there were schools like Ridley, which I understand was never in the large school classification

Certainly P-R's been good for several years now, but it seems they win nearly all their games by the same large margins SJP wins most of its games. Stalker mentioned the blowouts in the last couple of 6A state championship games. Sure SJP had especially strong teams, but the opposition seemed not really ready for prime time. Am I being to harsh? Maybe they felt intimidated. I suppose what I'm getting at is that it may not simply be a case of SJP getting so much better but of the in-state opposition getting weaker.

 

[new2pa]

Tulla, that makes a lot of sense from what I’ve seen. Out here, 5A this past year was supposed to be “the deepest division in the state.” The teams weren’t even close to beating P-R, and don’t seem like they were moving in the right direction. Lots of junk. Lacking in scheme, talent, physicality, etc.

Probably happening in 6A too.

I think a lot of otherwise talented teams lose games just seeing the letters SJP on the schedule.

 

[wilson8500]

high school paper...No way this article was written by a high school student.

Do you know if any LaSalle students live on campus?

 

[lilromeo]

Do you know if any LaSalle students live on campus?

Wilson,what makes you ask a question like that ?? Paul will definitely have the answer, but I dont believe this has ever been the case.

 

[Stalker]

My general question is whether the quality of high school football in PA, especially at larger public schools, is getting better or worse or staying about the same. My impression from a distance is that it's worse. Not only is there no program like that of CB West, there's no program with strong teams over many years like North Penn from 10-20 years ago. I had the sense that schools like McKeesport and Gateway had really good, not necessarily great, teams year over year. Then there were schools like Ridley, which I understand was never in the large school classification

Certainly P-R's been good for several years now, but it seems they win nearly all their games by the same large margins SJP wins most of its games. Stalker mentioned the blowouts in the last couple of 6A state championship games. Sure SJP had especially strong teams, but the opposition seemed not really ready for prime time. Am I being to harsh? Maybe they felt intimidated. I suppose what I'm getting at is that it may not simply be a case of SJP getting so much better but of the in-state opposition getting weaker.

Oh Tulla, I think teams today are much better than 3 yards and a cloud of dust from yester year. Better teams and much better players. Plenty of teams have been hugely successful, consistently, the last 20 years in many classifications.

 

[wilson8500]

Wilson,what makes you ask a question like that ?? Paul will definitely have the answer, but I dont believe this has ever been the case.

I know they have bus routes, but I just didnt know if they had students living on campus. Has nothing to do with recruiting. I was wondering if there was an option other than a two hr bus ride. Apprciate you asking asking Paul(?).

 

[Bighead75]

Do you know if any LaSalle students live on campus?

No students live on campus

 

[tulla]

Oh Tulla, I think teams today are much better than 3 yards and a cloud of dust from yester year. Better teams and much better players. Plenty of teams have been hugely successful, consistently, the last 20 years in many classifications.

I know offenses are more open and pass-oriented, but I'm wondering if people think the overall quality of the teams is better, worse, or about the same. I know it's really hard to compare teams from different eras, but people do so anyway. I've read lots of posts on here about defenses being much weaker--for a variety of reasons, including rule changes.

 

[solfootballfan]

Generally speaking, D1 football was considerably better 20+ years ago. There was less options for boys (more competitive) and there’s no doubt a war on boys and men. That being said, I don’t think CBWest would beat the SJP teams of today (back then, yes SJP was weak until Brooks), mostly because of speed. West struggled against teams with speed and were upset a couple times too because of this. Norristown and Whitemarsh upset West because of superior speed and squads that could hang physically. North Penn, Neshaminy look to be underperforming and were the only real threats out of D1 to SJP. And it’s not skill or speed. These teams hung because they played physical, disciplined FB with great D’s. Not so much anymore; D1 D is virtually non existent, again I suspect because the game and culture has changed so much. Boys are not to be physical or scrappy. Kids don’t get into scraps like we did. Maybe it’s because the game and the world is much different, who knows. It’s just different and is reflected in our sports and society as a whole. Things are easier, each generation has it easier. Those tough, physical and disciplined squads that ran systems made up for the lack of speed and or athletes and the competition never had all that talent on one team that SJP has. Both sides have changed and the game has changed and has essentially taken out the components that equalized the deficiencies in skills and or speed. Just my observations of 30 plus years as a close follower and fan.

 

[tulla]

Generally speaking, D1 football was considerably better 20+ years ago. There was less options for boys (more competitive) and there’s no doubt a war on boys and men. That being said, I don’t think CBWest would beat the SJP teams of today (back then, yes SJP was weak until Brooks), mostly because of speed. West struggled against teams with speed and were upset a couple times too because of this. Norristown and Whitemarsh upset West because of superior speed and squads that could hang physically. North Penn, Neshaminy look to be underperforming and were the only real threats out of D1 to SJP. And it’s not skill or speed. These teams hung because they played physical, disciplined FB with great D’s. Not so much anymore; D1 D is virtually non existent, again I suspect because the game and culture has changed so much. Boys are not to be physical or scrappy. Kids don’t get into scraps like we did. Maybe it’s because the game and the world is much different, who knows. It’s just different and is reflected in our sports and society as a whole. Things are easier, each generation has it easier. Those tough, physical and disciplined squads that ran systems made up for the lack of speed and or athletes and the competition never had all that talent on one team that SJP has. Both sides have changed and the game has changed and has essentially taken out the components that equalized the deficiencies in skills and or speed. Just my observations of 30 plus years as a close follower and fan.

I agree with you about speed. I doubt we will ever see a high school team, at least in the Philly area, with three very fast receivers (Harrison, Cooper, and Hagans) who can also get open, catch the ball, and then run with it and with a QB who has as strong an arm and as much accuracy as McCord.

About the current generation being softer you probably have a point. On the other hand, some coaches got away with stuff they never should have gotten away with, e.g. a 14-year old misses a tackle and then gets called "pussy" for the rest of the day or week, even coaches hitting players (while knowing the players could not hit them back). There have also been rule changes, especially in relation to tackling, that have made players more cautious. Overall, a good thing, though sometimes the rules aren't sensibly enforced. All that aside, it seems to me that the overall quality of blocking and tackling is just poorer.

 

[solfootballfan]

Good points, I was remiss on fundamentals - couldn’t agree more. Fundamentals are NOT fun or easy to practice especially when you have to compete against passing and catching balls. The special teams are lacking as well; looks like most kids are just going through the motions there and I suspect less practice and maybe most importantly it was seen as a stepping stone for the younger kids to show that they could do: run, hustle, hit and cover. Different times, but it’s always that way.