Prep/GV

PAFootball2012

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Sep 29, 2012
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Welp, pretty much expected. Blowout.

Prep will win this years state title and be even better next year. D1 stands no chance
 

newport

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Nov 22, 2002
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Has there ever been a time when the state ranked 1 n 2 played and there was a 60 point disparity between the 2? Scary thing is that SJP will probably be even better next year
 

newport

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Nov 22, 2002
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They really have sputtered in the 2nd quarter. Only 14 points so far. 42-0 Hawks late in 1st half
 

newport

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Nov 22, 2002
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48-0 at the half. Can either of the teams from the west bracket hold them under 50?
 

newport

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Nov 22, 2002
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Honest question.... could even the legendary teams like the 98 CB West team stay within 4 tds of Prep at this point?
 

tulla

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Oct 27, 2004
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How did
How did LaSalle only lose 21-13 three weeks ago?
LaSalle's two TDs were in large part gifts of the refs. LaSalle's first "drive" included a PI call on Sacca on a 30-something yard pass. Even the LaSalle broadcasters thought it was highly questionable. I thought it was just an awful call. The second LaSalle TD came after the Prep fumbled a punt at about their own 35. LaSalle's second TD "drive" was sustained by of offside call against SJP that the same LaSalle broadcasters expected to be a motion call against LaSalle. Most of the the other calls--and non-calls--went LaSalle's way.

It was also the second time they played this year. Not easy to get two blowout wins in the same year against a rival. The Prep also made more mistakes than usual, and LaSalle played really hard, especially on defense.
 

Hausmann1978

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May 5, 2021
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Prep made 9 out of 10 state championships and it'll 10 out of 11 next year. Funny how they follow 3 fnl players with McCord, Harrison, and trotter and after they graduated they followed them with 25 more D1 kids. They always find a way to reload every year.
 
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delcofootball1

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Jul 31, 2015
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2002 SJP 2003 SJP would not be dominated by this SJP team.
You’re comparing this prep team to another prep team. Come on man. I know you get your jollies off on throwing your support behind super teams but these prep teams should be playing nationally ranked teams all 10 weeks. There’s no enjoyment in what they do- there can’t be- if they’re true competitors.
 
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tulla

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You’re comparing this prep team to another prep team. Come on man. I know you get your jollies off on throwing your support behind super teams but these prep teams should be playing nationally ranked teams all 10 weeks. There’s no enjoyment in what they do- there can’t be- if they’re true competitors.
Most years the Prep has played a very ambitious non-league schedule. But almost all the best teams that are within 150 or 200 miles (the North Jersey Catholic schools like Bergen Catholic, Bosco, St's Joe's Montvale, and St. Peter's Prep and the DC area schools like DeMatha, St. John's, Good Counsel, Gonzaga, etc.) play in leagues that make them almost entirely unavailable for games after September. And the Prep is not going to fly around the country the way IMG does because it's unaffordable and, more important, it would make it much harder for the players to be integrated within the school community and to be academically responsible. Even the top California powers travel very little outside their parts of California. Same is true, as far as I can tell, with the best teams in Texas and Florida.

Let's focus on this year. The reality is that, locally, LaSalle and Wood were way down from where they've been for most of the last 10-15 years. Judge also had a particularly bad year. In the PPL the 6A champion, Northeast, was not close to the team they were in say, 2019. Is all this the Prep's fault? Looking across the state, it seems pretty obvious that no 6A team in the West, in District One or in the Lehigh Valley was anywhere close to Mount Lebanon in 2021, to PCC in 2019, to Pine Richland and Coatesville in 2017, to North Penn or even PCC (which was down to SJP by seven points a minute before halftime in the state championship), to Parkland or PCC in 2015, to Pine-Richland or Parkland in 2014, or to Neshaminy or PCC (which was leading SJP at the half in the state championship game) in 2013. Does anyone seriously think that SJP success so far this year has caused 6A teams across the state to be especially weak? I looked at Garnet Valley today and thought they would have been crushed by Coatesville in 2017--or 2018-- by North Penn in 2016, by Neshaminy in 2013. Anyone disagree?
 

delcofootball1

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Jul 31, 2015
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You’re totally right. This years garnet team was nothing spectacular compared to other district 1 champs of the past. I agree district 1 was down this year but, in the current system, will there ever be a district 1 team that will compete with prep?
 

Hausmann1978

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May 5, 2021
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You’re comparing this prep team to another prep team. Come on man. I know you get your jollies off on throwing your support behind super teams but these prep teams should be playing nationally ranked teams all 10 weeks. There’s no enjoyment in what they do- there can’t be- if they’re true competitors.
This debate gets fired up every year prep makes it to the finals but I agree with you. Normal teams like Mt Lebo have to rebuild after a great senior class. Not st Joe's prep. They replace 3 NFL players with trotter, mccord, and Harrison Jr. They graduated them and they get replaced with somewhere around 25 D1 guys. They are an all star team and I'm not even anti private schools. Even mcdevitt, Pittsburgh central Catholic, Erie cathedral prep, ect... have rebuilding years. Not prep. They are a super all star team but the Piaa allows for it so I guess you cant hate the player but hate the game.
 
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tulla

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You’re totally right. This years garnet team was nothing spectacular compared to other district 1 champs of the past. I agree district 1 was down this year but, in the current system, will there ever be a district 1 team that will compete with prep?
Of course the Prep won't always be as good as they've been in most of the recent years. Everyone seems to think next year's team will be better, but I'm not sure, mainly because they will be losing Trotter, the very under-rated Nilles, and DuMond.

That aside, I wonder if a guy like a current-day Mike Pettine could take over a program at a large school, recruit a strong staff of assistants, and build a really strong program. (I know that the politics of school boards might make that a fantasy.) Maybe most of the head coaches now in place in district one are really good, but I'm not sure. One thing I'm sure does get overlooked is the quality of the Prep's coaching staff. Most, including Roken, have been there a long time. Some will say their job is easy because they have a lot of talented players, but I think we all know that having a lot of talented players, especially when they play the same position (e.g. wide receiver or running back), can be really difficult.

One question I have: aren't there large parts of district one (much of Bucks, and some of Montgomery, Delaware and Chester counties) where very few students go to Inter-AC schools or SJP or LaSalle? Why would it be hard (impossible?) to develop a really solid football program in such an area?
 

tulla

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This debate gets fired up every year prep makes it to the finals but I agree with you. Normal teams like Mt Lebo have to rebuild after a great senior class. Not st Joe's prep. They replace 3 NFL players with trotter, mccord, and Harrison Jr. They graduated them and they get replaced with somewhere around 25 D1 guys. They are an all star team and I'm not even anti private schools. Even mcdevitt, Pittsburgh central Catholic, Erie cathedral prep, ect... have rebuilding years. Not prep. They are a super all star team but the Piaa allows for it so I guess you cant hate the player but hate the game.
Last year the Prep graduated a grand total of three D1 players: Nelson who went to South Carolina, and Chadha (the kicker) and Harris who both went to Rutgers. In this year's senior class there are--as far as I know--two players so far with D1 offers: Trotter and Nilles. This year's junior class has quite a few more (S. Jones, I.Jones, Washington, Agard, Phillips, Rehmann, and maybe Sanchez and Steele) and the sophomore class has Sacca and West but the total is not near 25. Several players will go to D2 and D3 schools. This is not to argue against the obvious: the Prep now has more talent than any other school in PA. But it should be noted that many of the kids who come to the school are not destined to be D1 or even D3 players the way someone like Marvin Harrison Jr. was. Olamide Zaccheaus, for instance, didn't have "future NFL starter" written on his forehead when he first came to the Prep.
 

BradlyPitt

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Last year the Prep graduated a grand total of three D1 players: Nelson who went to South Carolina, and Chadha (the kicker) and Harris who both went to Rutgers. In this year's senior class there are--as far as I know--two players so far with D1 offers: Trotter and Nilles. This year's junior class has quite a few more (S. Jones, I.Jones, Washington, Agard, Phillips, Rehmann, and maybe Sanchez and Steele) and the sophomore class has Sacca and West but the total is not near 25. Several players will go to D2 and D3 schools. This is not to argue against the obvious: the Prep now has more talent than any other school in PA. But it should be noted that many of the kids who come to the school are not destined to be D1 or even D3 players the way someone like Marvin Harrison Jr. was. Olamide Zaccheaus, for instance, didn't have "future NFL starter" written on his forehead when he first came to the Prep.
a school with a roster of many D3 prospects would beat most high school teams

three senior D1 players? most schools are lucky to have 1 every 10 years

this is essentially a college team playing in high school
 
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northalleghenytiger

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I agree, I think the bigger question is, how was GV 13-0 going into this game?
Here’s the comparison I’ll make

Random semi-pro hockey player < random NHL player < Wayne Gretzky

District 1 football< Garnet Valley< St Joes prep

Garnet valley is far better than anyone than anyone in D1. St joes prep is far better than garnet valley. This means D1 football is really bad

St joes prep would beat every d1 team put together
 

tulla

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a school with a roster of many D3 prospects would beat most high school teams

three senior D1 players? most schools are lucky to have 1 every 10 years

this is essentially a college team playing in high school
No, it is not a college team. To begin with, college players are almost all 18-22. High school players are 14-17. That alone is a huge difference. To go back a bit: they lost the first game of the year to St. Thomas Aquinas. Were they a college team then? Were they a college team when they beat Erasmus Hall (a public school from Brooklyn) by seven points? Were they a college team last year when they lost three games--two to public high schools (Milton from GA and ML from PA)? I guess in your view they can't really win since if they score more points than the opponent it's only because they have large unfair advantages and if they lose it's because they're seriously under-performing.
 

Hausmann1978

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Last year the Prep graduated a grand total of three D1 players: Nelson who went to South Carolina, and Chadha (the kicker) and Harris who both went to Rutgers. In this year's senior class there are--as far as I know--two players so far with D1 offers: Trotter and Nilles. This year's junior class has quite a few more (S. Jones, I.Jones, Washington, Agard, Phillips, Rehmann, and maybe Sanchez and Steele) and the sophomore class has Sacca and West but the total is not near 25. Several players will go to D2 and D3 schools. This is not to argue against the obvious: the Prep now has more talent than any other school in PA. But it should be noted that many of the kids who come to the school are not destined to be D1 or even D3 players the way someone like Marvin Harrison Jr. was. Olamide Zaccheaus, for instance, didn't have "future NFL starter" written on his forehead when he first came to the Prep.
Prep was young last year. They are young this year. The podcast I listen to "a fresh set of downs" are done by eastern pa reporters said prep has anywhere between 25-28 D1 guys. Not all seniors. They are also 2nd right now in the nation with the most NFL players which here shortly they will be #1 I believe. Let's see what trotter, mccord, Harrison, ect.. do. Next year I think they will be the best team in the country including img, mater dei, st Thomas, ect.... To think they run a program like Garnett valley does, north Allegheny, Mt Lebo, north penn is just crazy. Next year they'll have made it to 11 out of 12 state titles and it'll continue to grow. They never have to rebuild like Lebo did this year. Prep would be like if they put a private school in beaver county with the funding and backing to pull all the best players from aliquippa, central valley, and beaver falls. People that defend this and feel it's an even playing field makes me laugh. The Piaa allows it so you can't hate the player hate the game. I guess as of now it's in the rules.
 
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RCH13co18

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From watching the game yesterday. I don’t understand how GV goes undefeated yet again. I mean you can’t expect to beat a team in the semis with a system like that. It’s false hope. They would lose to Judge. When your linemen is the size of their linebackers, lining up trying to run dive all day is a bad recipe.

I said this last yr and I’ll say it again. I’m a die hard Roman guy. We’re now beginning to turn things around. I have friends with children that attend prep and play football there. Until other schools invest in their program and find a coaching staff that builds a winning culture. We’ll have this discussion again next year. I use to beat myself up wondering why we couldn’t compete with them. My thoughts shifted to we shouldn’t be able to compete with them. They’re approach to hs football is way different than most of their opponents. 2 of my sons played at Roman. When comparing their schedule with their friends that played at prep is was totally different. Again, why should we be able to compete? And yeah talent have a lot to do with it, but their off season was different than ours, they practiced longer, had more coaches, and played better opponents. I’ll always be a fan of hs football from this area. They’re getting kids who want to play at the next level and we’re getting kids that plays just for something to do.
 

Hausmann1978

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May 5, 2021
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From watching the game yesterday. I don’t understand how GV goes undefeated yet again. I mean you can’t expect to beat a team in the semis with a system like that. It’s false hope. They would lose to Judge. When your linemen is the size of their linebackers, lining up trying to run dive all day is a bad recipe.

I said this last yr and I’ll say it again. I’m a die hard Roman guy. We’re now beginning to turn things around. I have friends with children that attend prep and play football there. Until other schools invest in their program and find a coaching staff that builds a winning culture. We’ll have this discussion again next year. I use to beat myself up wondering why we couldn’t compete with them. My thoughts shifted to we shouldn’t be able to compete with them. They’re approach to hs football is way different than most of their opponents. 2 of my sons played at Roman. When comparing their schedule with their friends that played at prep is was totally different. Again, why should we be able to compete? And yeah talent have a lot to do with it, but their off season was different than ours, they practiced longer, had more coaches, and played better opponents. I’ll always be a fan of hs football from this area. They’re getting kids who want to play at the next level and we’re getting kids that plays just for something to do.
People are trashing gv on here. They had an unbelievable season with some big wins. They went 13-0 and made it to the eastern finals. They lost to a team with far superior talent. You can't trash gv for losing to prep. That is a national football program and is one of they in the country and next year they will be the best. The talent they bring in is far far superior. GV could play a perfect game and would still lose.
 
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roxychknpoxy

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Prep was young last year. They are young this year. The podcast I listen to "a fresh set of downs" are done by eastern pa reporters said prep has anywhere between 25-28 D1 guys. Not all seniors. They are also 2nd right now in NFL players which here shortly they will be #1 I believe. Let's see what trotter, mccord, Harrison, ect.. do. Next year I think they will be the best team in the country including img, mater dei, st Thomas, ect.... To think they run a program like Garnett valley does, north Allegheny, Mt Lebo, north penn is just crazy. Next year they'll have made it to 11 out of 12 state titles and it'll continue to grow. They never have to rebuild like Lebo did this year. Prep would be like if they put a private school in beaver county with the funding and backing to pull all the best players from aliquippa, central valley, and beaver falls. People that defend this and feel it's an even playing field makes me laugh. The Piaa allows it so you can't hate the player hate the game. I guess as of now it's in the rules.
Why can’t it be done? I think Why(?) is a good approach. Why do these kids choose the Prep? The facilities? The education? The location? The opportunity? The tuition? (yes, every kid in that school who plays pays some form of tuition typically minimum of $9k and many pay much more) The coaching? The visibility? Why? Legacy plays a big roll as well - approx 30% of the team has had a relative go to the school, which dates back to 1851 at the same location. Why not for soccer? Why not for baseball? Why not for basketball? …. Here’s the Why - Prep started a process of 30 years ago with Gil Brooks to play the best the could find non league and always challenged his team. It continued with inafante and further with Roken. It ultimately created a vacuum effect and that’s where we are today. They don’t need to recruit as much as folks think. Few schools will make the sacrifices and commitment Prep players make. Training is year round, includes yoga and meditation and summer workouts start at 5am. Prep scheduled Buford GA this year and got blown off. When was the last time there was a showcase game where a team came north or east? When?! What’s a national schedule? Just play a make it work
 

HSFB99

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Oct 4, 2020
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This argument is quite tiresome. Both sides have valid points. I think the following statements are unequivocally true.

1. SJP has more talent than everyone in the state most years. It is clearly a major competitive advantage to not have borders. This fact allows SJP to not feel the full effects of the cyclical nature of high school football.
2. SJP has one of the top coaching staffs in the state.
3. District 1 football is down. A combination of less students, less football players, less multi-sport athletes, losing a few good players per year to a local Catholic/private school, less emphasis on winning by administrations, etc. are contributing to a worse on-field product than a decade ago.
4. Some coaches that go 2-8 do a better job that season than coaches that go 8-2. Sometimes you simply don’t have the horses. Insert CBW of the past few years. To say anything but their staff does a remarkable job would be asinine. They are never beating SJP for the reasons stated above. However, that doesn’t mean they are poorly coached.
5. I’ve seen both SJP and GV play this year. I’d guess there might be one starter on GV that would start for SJP.

I’m not an advocate for removing the catholic schools, nor am I hater when they have success. Also, I’m not an apologist for the decline of some of the public school districts. I’m simply trying to provide a realistic perspective.
 

tulla

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Oct 27, 2004
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This argument is quite tiresome. Both sides have valid points. I think the following statements are unequivocally true.

1. SJP has more talent than everyone in the state most years. It is clearly a major competitive advantage to not have borders. This fact allows SJP to not feel the full effects of the cyclical nature of high school football.
2. SJP has one of the top coaching staffs in the state.
3. District 1 football is down. A combination of less students, less football players, less multi-sport athletes, losing a few good players per year to a local Catholic/private school, less emphasis on winning by administrations, etc. are contributing to a worse on-field product than a decade ago.
4. Some coaches that go 2-8 do a better job that season than coaches that go 8-2. Sometimes you simply don’t have the horses. Insert CBW of the past few years. To say anything but their staff does a remarkable job would be asinine. They are never beating SJP for the reasons stated above. However, that doesn’t mean they are poorly coached.
5. I’ve seen both SJP and GV play this year. I’d guess there might be one starter on GV that would start for SJP.

I’m not an advocate for removing the catholic schools, nor am I hater when they have success. Also, I’m not an apologist for the decline of some of the public school districts. I’m simply trying to provide a realistic perspective.
I agree with all your points and would just add that, according to the posters who live in those areas, District 11 and District 7 were also quite weak this year in 6A, which I can't imagine has anything to do with SJP.
 

tulla

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Oct 27, 2004
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People are trashing gv on here. They had an unbelievable season with some big wins. They went 13-0 and made it to the eastern finals. They lost to a team with far superior talent. You can't trash gv for losing to prep. That is a national football program and is one of they in the country and next year they will be the best. The talent they bring in is far far superior. GV could play a perfect game and would still lose.
No desire to trash CV. Just looking at the team told you they had no chance against SJP. The main question I have is why the District 1 champions this year and last were so much weaker than the District 1 champions in 2017, 2016, 2015, 2013, 2012, etc. It can't just be because SJP gets players from those areas since SJP gets very few players from them.
 

tulla

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Oct 27, 2004
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From watching the game yesterday. I don’t understand how GV goes undefeated yet again. I mean you can’t expect to beat a team in the semis with a system like that. It’s false hope. They would lose to Judge. When your linemen is the size of their linebackers, lining up trying to run dive all day is a bad recipe.

I said this last yr and I’ll say it again. I’m a die hard Roman guy. We’re now beginning to turn things around. I have friends with children that attend prep and play football there. Until other schools invest in their program and find a coaching staff that builds a winning culture. We’ll have this discussion again next year. I use to beat myself up wondering why we couldn’t compete with them. My thoughts shifted to we shouldn’t be able to compete with them. They’re approach to hs football is way different than most of their opponents. 2 of my sons played at Roman. When comparing their schedule with their friends that played at prep is was totally different. Again, why should we be able to compete? And yeah talent have a lot to do with it, but their off season was different than ours, they practiced longer, had more coaches, and played better opponents. I’ll always be a fan of hs football from this area. They’re getting kids who want to play at the next level and we’re getting kids that plays just for something to do.
How much better do you think RCHGS will be next year and the year after? Obviously it'll help to have the QB back. Still think the 2007 Roman team was much better than any team they've had since.